QuoteTRANSPORTATION: T&I panel leaders push for 'true' high-speed rail
Josh Voorhees, E&E reporter
House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee leaders said yesterday that they want federal high-speed rail investment directed toward creating European-style lines that top 150 miles per hour, not smaller, incremental gains on existing passenger services.
"We cannot take the funding to be invested in high-speed rail ... and try to fool people by giving them anything less than true high-speed rail service," said ranking member John Mica (R-Fla.).
President Obama secured $8 billion in the stimulus package for high-speed rail and has asked for an additional $5 billion over the next five years. While the total dwarfs previous federal investment in high-speed rail, it is far short of the amount needed to build the nationwide system that Obama and many in Congress have called for.
Lawmakers are split over how the initial investment should be spent. Some are calling for it to be poured into one or two pilot projects that demonstrate the potential of what Mica called "true" high-speed rail. Others are arguing the cash should be used for track maintenance and other improvements to existing rail lines, which would allow passenger trains to approach speeds of 110 mph, the minimum speed needed to earn the federal "high speed" designation.
Railroads, Pipelines and Hazardous Materials Subcommittee Chairman Corrine Brown (D-Fla.) said the Transportation Department needs to avoid trying to include too many states when it hands out the stimulus grants. "If you spread the money around on too many systems, the money won't work like it's suppose to," she said.
Despite Mica and Brown's comments, Federal Railroad Administrator Joseph Szabo cautioned the panel that the grant money could go to a wide range of projects, ranging from conventional passenger rail services that top out at 90 mph to high-speed express routes that reach 150 mph or more.
"All of these speeds and all of these services are important," Szabo said. "This is, in fact, the model that is used in Europe and Asia. Not every single train is going 200 miles per hour. It is important to see how these different pieces fit together."
He said that the system in Spain, which has drawn praise from a host of lawmakers including T&I Chairman James Oberstar (D-Minn.), started out with trains running at roughly 110 mph before making the jump to their present day state-of-the-art system.
"I don't want to leave the impression that we are diminishing 110- or 150-miles-per-hour service," Szabo said. "But not every train everywhere will be running at 200 miles per hour."
State proposals
States have requested a total of $57 billion for their high-speed and passenger rail plans, leaving FRA officials with a difficult decision on where and how to spend the $8 billion they do have. While Szabo and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood have said the grants will be handed out based on a wide range of criteria, many in the industry think the potential top speed of the proposals is likely to be a major factor.
Proposals from California, Texas and Florida -- the home state of both Mica and Brown -- call for the creation of new high-speed-only lines from scratch. Those plans would typically allow trains to reach higher top speeds than those proposals that would merely make improvements to existing lines that carry both freight and passenger trains, such as a proposed Midwestern system radiating out from a Chicago hub.
Mica, who along with Brown, represents a congressional district that would directly benefit from the Florida proposal gaining federal funding, was quick to downplay possible perceptions that he was hyping his home state's plan over others. "We're not parochial about this," he said. "We're not campaigning for any site, we're looking for a success for the country."
FRA had originally hoped to hand out a small portion of the stimulus cash for planning projects and shovel-ready work by the start of this month but decided not to because of the unexpected high level of interest in the program.
The agency received a total of 45 applications from 24 states for a total of $50 billion in long-term high-speed rail corridor projects, and another 214 requests from 24 states for a total of $7 billion for smaller planning and shovel-ready projects.
"It was painful to delay because we had given our word," Szabo said. "But in the grander scheme of things, to make sure this is done right and that we look at all of these applications holistically. ... A short, three-, four-month delay is miniscule."
Szabo said that no grants would likely be handed out before the end of the year and that the first round would not be limited to the smaller, shovel-ready projects as had originally been planned.
http://www.feedage.com/feeds/34931/ee-daily
Funny how John Mica does not support HSR for Florida, despite the fact that it can be up and running in 2014, well before any other True HSR projects.
To get HSR funding, the state is planning to reconsider the Tri-Rail and Sunrail deals in December. They are under the belief that Florida will lose out on HSR dollars if they don't commit to both commuter rail projects.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6465.0.html
lakelander, though I whole-heartedly support operational funding for Tri-Rail since it's foolish and really backward to let it starve, the HSR decision will be made irrespective of this, as the most important criterion is to develop a model system of True HSR that can be up and running soonest:
Voila FLORIDA, my home state!!!
Stephendare, I have no clue what you are saying.
^So you think Lahood, Gov. Crist, Senate President Jeff Atwater, Senators Lawson, Alexander, Nelson and LeMieux are all lying about this?
QuoteBy William E. Gibson and Josh Hafenbrack
WASHINGTON -- Gov. Charlie Crist and Senate President Jeff Atwater today called for a special legislative session this year to fund Tri-Rail and SunRail to clear a path for federal high-speed railroad dollars.
Atwater, a Republican from North Palm Beach, said Florida doesn’t have a chance of getting the $2.5 billion it needs for high-speed rail projects until it shows a commitment to fund two commuter railroads: Tri-Rail in South Florida and SunRail in Central Florida.
Speaking to reporters in Tallahassee, Crist endorsed the special session, likely slated for early December, making it a strong possibility. The governor also said he'd like to see his Seminole gambling pact added to the December agenda, although lawmakers might be reluctant to go along with that.
"I think that's a great idea," Crist said of a special session. "I would certainly encourage that, and I think it's the right thing for Florida. It can also help us with this bullet-train issue, too. We need transportation arteries for Florida. We are the fourth-largest state in the country, almost 20 million people. And it strikes me, you're on I-4 or I-75 or 95, the more transportation arteries we have for our fellow Floridians, the better it's going to be. Plus, it will provide additional jobs. We got the new numbers last week: almost 11 percent unemployment. We've got to do whatever we can to help those people."
Atwater and two fellow state senators said they are determined to fund the regional railroads after meeting in Washington with federal transportation and railroad officials and with Florida U.S. Senators Bill Nelson and George LeMieux.
The state seeks a piece of the $8 billion designated for high-speed rail projects around the country that were included in the economic-recovery bill passed by Congress this year.
“It’s a stimulus construction project that can put people to work,†Nelson said.
The first leg of an elevated high-speed train would connect Tampa and Orlando in the median of I-4. State officials hope to eventually connect Orlando with Miami with trains that move at 110 miles per hour.
Federal officials told the visitors that they could not compete for the high-speed dollars unless the Legislature fully committed to paying for the commuter projects now and in the future. The idea is to connect high-speed trains with commuter trains.
“It can’t be just throwing money at it,†Atwater said. “It has to be a commitment of dollars that they could see was on a going-forward basis.â€
Tri-Rail has long sought a steady source of state funding to help lure federal dollars.
Atwater said the Legislature has shown renewed interest in a proposal to add a $2 surcharge on car rentals to pay for commuter rail. The proposal was complicated by attempts to allow SunRail to operate on CSX railroad tracks in the Orlando area. The state Senate balked at the risk of sparing the freight-carrier from legal liability, which would put state taxpayers on the hook for potential lawsuits.
Atwater said he is confident legislators can resolve these matters in a special session. He was joined by Senate Democratic Leader Al Lawson of Tallahassee and Senate budget chief J.D. Alexander, R-Winter Haven.
“Shame on us if we give up an opportunity to get $2.5 billion dollars and transform the way we get around Florida and the way we do business in Florida,†LeMieux said.
In Tallahassee, Crist said he'd like lawmakers to use the special session as a chance to vote on his Seminole gambling compact, which would give the tribe blackjack at its seven casinos in exchange for $150 million a year. Lawmakers, however, have criticized the governor's deal, which prohibits Florida pari-mutuel businesses from expanding into casino gambling games.
"I think having those additional monies for education for our children is awfully important, that's why I supported it," he said.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2009/10/crist-atwater-vote-on-sunrail-in-december.html
Gee I thought that the "Lotto" was supposed to transform and pay for Education......but $150 Million extra is going to turn the corner? Somehow I don't think so...........but that's Charlie's take on the situation! HSR is something that Florida as a whole needs and I could see Sunrail and Tri rail being tied into any HSR project. Both systems deserve funding so that the counties that run it do not have to pay out of their pockets......but that is Tallahassee's doings not mine! Both of those local people moving systems deserve to run and HSR should be a separate entity unto itself! Infact......any rail system should be run by a separate Agency according to known standards...........anyone see "Rail Czar" coming?
QuoteAtwater said the Legislature has shown renewed interest in a proposal to add a $2 surcharge on car rentals to pay for commuter rail.
Is this a South Florida only thing or will this $2 surcharge help pay for "any" commuter rail system in the state?
Good question lake...............do you wanna bet across the State?
http://www.ushsr.com/images/map3.swf
If they commit funding to this plan all they way perhaps it would find my support. I don't want to use the small amount of money(in terms of a HSR system) on a small under connected "attraction" for central Florida.
Scroll over the little hard to read dates at the bottom of the pic to see the phasing plan.
If you want to see it bigger.http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html (http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html)
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2009, 06:56:22 AM
QuoteAtwater said the Legislature has shown renewed interest in a proposal to add a $2 surcharge on car rentals to pay for commuter rail.
Is this a South Florida only thing or will this $2 surcharge help pay for "any" commuter rail system in the state?
The $2 surcharge would apply in 3 So. Florida counties. If Central Florida counties want it for their commuter rail they ought to request it too.
Imo, Orlando, Jax and Tampa should request to be included.
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 20, 2009, 02:03:02 AM
lakelander, though I whole-heartedly support operational funding for Tri-Rail since it's foolish and really backward to let it starve, the HSR decision will be made irrespective of this, as the most important criterion is to develop a model system of True HSR that can be up and running soonest:
Voila FLORIDA, my home state!!!
Lakelander, it's all in the preferred intrepretation. Personally I think Florida has been admonished for letting Tri-Rail falter and for not having "a commitment of dollars that they could see was on a going-forward basis." as Atwater says.
Here is another confirming take on Florida being admonished in a more general fashion:
Quote``This is about rail in Florida. It's not about SunRail specifically,'' Atwater said. ``I don't mean to be just saying that as a disguise. That's what their communication was to us today: `Look, we need to see long-term commitment to rail activity in Florida if we're going to make this investment.' ''
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southflorida/story/1290679.html
Of course the Sunrail supporters are using the general admonishment as a pretense to get Sunrail approved. And truth be told, if they aren't so adamantly against reworking the deal to account for our deteriorated economic conditions and the fact that it had been negotiated in secret, I think it would be beneficial to Florida but in a rather marginal way, since we still only show 3,500 riders per day on Sunrail compared to 175,000 daily rides on I-4.
Let's face it, neither Sunrail or Tri-Rail physically connect up to the Florida HSR application.
It seems like several players directly involved believe otherwise, which has led to scheduling the December special session.
Anyway, the issue isn't about these systems physically connecting. Its about the state's lack of commitment to rail in general with Tri-Rail and Sunrail projects in the limelight.
Chicago and California are locks imo. So Florida and North Carolina seem like the strongest contenders for the scraps. That said we have to fund everything to be seen as close to their commitment to rail. My guess is Florida and texas will be the odd men out. We may get the FEC project as consolation.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2009, 12:51:24 PM
It seems like several players directly involved believe otherwise, which has led to scheduling the December special session.
Anyway, the issue isn't about these systems physically connecting. Its about the state's lack of commitment to rail in general with Tri-Rail and Sunrail projects in the limelight.
Actually the special session is planned for Crist's gambling issue, and it has now been decided to look at commuter rail as well.
It is indeed shameful that we have let a successful Tri-Rail falter in terms of not supplying it with adequate, and dedicated funding.
Orlando and that region should push for the $2 Dollars tax..........this is something that should have been thought of long before now......systems with no funding are kinda hamstrung for sure. At least they would be seen as pushing the box somewhat in an effort to fund what should have been funded from the start!