Look like our First Coast Outer Beltway is cheap in comparison...we get 46 miles for $1.8 Billion....Orlando only gets 25 miles of the Wekiva Parkway for the same amount...all while going through an environmentally sensitive area!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-debt-expressway-authority-093009,0,6311284.story
The Times Union spoke of the Chaffee connector being ready this weekend. The rest of the road will be paid for with tolls, as expected.
62 million for the Chaffee road connector. Rediculous spending by FDOT!
Oh yeah.........ridiculous spending as well as planning!
whether you like the road or not, $62 million is pretty cheap (I think it might have been more)....keep in mind its about 3 miles in length, includes widening of 1 mile of I-10, and has interchange flyover bridges.
Insane. Both the Wekiva Parkway and the Outer Beltway should be put out of their misery.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 30, 2009, 09:21:26 PM
Insane. Both the Wekiva Parkway and the Outer Beltway should be put out of their misery.
I agree!!!
Chaffee Connector can be tolled all they want............I won't use it because I have no need to!
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 30, 2009, 10:00:37 AM
The Times Union spoke of the Chaffee connector being ready this weekend. The rest of the road will be paid for with tolls, as expected.
62 million for the Chaffee road connector. Rediculous spending by FDOT!
And Tolls are the wrong way to go, back when we had Toll roads in Jacksonville traffic was a bigger problem. And to bring them back is just DUMB!!
Pfft, for the Outer Beltway, it is perfect. If you're going to live that far out in the burbs and clog the central city's freeways, gotta pay to get into town.
Plus, it has to pay for itself somehow.
9B should be a toll way IMO as well, it serves no other purpose than bypassig what is already there.
Quote from: reednavy on October 05, 2009, 09:05:33 PM
Pfft, for the Outer Beltway, it is perfect. If you're going to live that far out in the burbs and clog the central city's freeways, gotta pay to get into town.
Plus, it has to pay for itself somehow.
9B should be a toll way IMO as well, it serves no other purpose than bypassig what is already there.
Then raise the sales TAX oh no I said the three letter word most in Jacksonville can't stand!!!
Quote from: stephendare on October 05, 2009, 09:17:23 PM
or just dont build it.
Weve done enough subsidizing of Sprawl through massive tax donations already
Point taken
Actually toll roads are the way to go. Pay to play, paid my tolls crossing downtown for years, thought it was only fair.
I agree. Also the impact on traffic will be lower now because most vehicles don't have to stop to pay.
I'm in the camp of not building them, but if you're going to, it should be pay as you play. The days of subsidizing these things with no regard to the negative impacts of such decisions are over.
lake ....got no problem with the pay as you play scenerio........but need to point out that most Interstates are Federal maintained highways. Bearing that in mind I need to point out the I95 northbound becomes a toll road in Virginia out of the clear blue sky! First time I ever ran into a Federal Interstate Highway that become a toll road with no warning what so ever! There is also another one just like in running west out of Kansas City toward Witchita but at least that one is not only marked but lots of warning you fixing to run into it. Good road but tolls are kinda wonky......tolls to pay for the road is one thing but what about when the road is paid for?
A road is never paid for. As long as its in operation, there will be costs associated with its maintenance.
Not a problem lake......note I did say "Interstate"! That is Federal money (yes I know our tax money!) and Federal controled and maintained with our tax money! A toll road is something else......private enterprise hard at work, making a buck for the investors and money to take care of itself!
no CS....tolls are used by both public and private entities to offset roadway costs or other expenses...in fact, there are very few private highways in the U.S. (likely less than 25)
For example, Delaware charges quite a bit for people to traverse the 15 miles of I-95 in the state (around $4)...but they get enough money from people driving through that they have no need for a sales tax.
Well now this is confusing. I10 starts and stops in Jacksonville. I can not vouch past Phoenix Airizona but to there, no tolls! Interstate, Federal Highway, taxpayer paid,supported and maintained. Excluding toll roads sold to foreign entity's either Federal,State or county......numbers indicated which and direction. I have always planned routes that do not use Toll roads since my tax dollars are used to maintain the Federal System and most of the time that is the shortest most direct route, but not always. I would not consider the Interstate System a private highway since Ike set about building it out, one of the biggest public works project of it day. Nice little sign in the middle of nowhere west of Kansas City that marks first section to be built in the US of A.
Two things can lead to tolls on the Interstate. First, the toll road could have been in place first, and the Interstate hooked into it - like the Trout River and Fuller Warren Bridges here back in the late 1950s. Second, because of declining highway (gas tax) revenues, recently, states have been given the right to put tolls on Interstates. I think they have to get the Fed's permission first.
CS Foltz, there are now toll express lanes on I-95 in Miami-Dade County.
I use Branan Field to Argyle Forest twice a day, everyday. I just realized when they put the "Future Toll Road" signs up that that was going to be the case. I've been in a hole I suppose. I'll just go an alternate route (Schindler to 103rd) to avoid the road when the toll begins. Is that a bad thing to do? I sort of feel guilty about going around it. Wouldn't it get pricey to pay a toll twice a day, everyday?
CS Foltz, there is nothing west of Phoenix on I-10 as far as tolls are concerned. The Expressway ends in Santa Monica BTW, not in LA.. As if Jacksonville would have had enough sense in the 1950's to carry I-10 to the San Pablo River.
kramer2k, It's a pure supply and demand situation, if the toll road is in your neighborhood and you choose to use a left handed pogo stick, or a jon boat on McGirts Creek to get to work, it's really not anybody's business. So power to the people with pogo sticks, you're still a patriot!
OCKLAWAHA
Just thinking about up north, I-76, I-80, I-90 and others are turnpikes for states like NY, PA, OH, and IL.
Also think about all the bridges/tunnels that have tolls on them (everything in Baltimore, Philly, and New York areas at a minimum)....most of them are interstate facilities.
Here's the problem...Federal income taxes don't pay for roads...and the Federal gas tax has not been increased for 16 years.....so oddly enough the transportation trust fund is now broke.
Since people have such an aversion to tax increaes, toll roads (user fees) are the future for both the interstate system and other regional highways!
OK gentlemen....I can see just where this is going and whether I agree or not.....tolls appear to be what is coming for sure. I agree with the general concensus and for sure can not dispute the "pay as you go" program! Have not been to Miami in 20 years plus....closest was Ft Lauderdale when Alligator Alley was not a toll road so that tells you how long ago that was. When you have a choice most would not choose a toll road anywhere, I know that I would not which is why Masstransit via rails should be the coming thing! I don't care if it is via Amtrak or FEC or a local yokel trying to make a ton of money.........either way we need to get going on a rail system ASAP and not trying to make up for lost ground and time! The same situation applies to the City of Jacksonville.......rail would be the best incentive for downtown development and moving more than the 6 people that ride a bus!
Oh, I don't know, if the toll road can avoid heavy traffic ... like that toll road around Orlando vs. going thru O-town at rush hour.
I'd still take I-4 through Orlando at rush hour. You can move on the Greenway, but it loops you so far out of the way and costs so much, you're better off sitting in gridlock. I've done it a few times. The time difference is really insignificant.
Depends on where you're going - if going to the east side of town, it can be better - either that, or every time I go thru town, there's a wreck! :o
True. My trips are typically right through metro Orlando to get to Lakeland.
You can always bailout at Lee Road, head west, as it curves around it becomes John Young Parkway and interchanges back into I-4 South of Orange Blossom Trail. A bit of a loop but it's FREE!
OCKLAWAHA
Tried that once and Lee Road was worse than I-4.
301 to 75 to 98.......I used that route when the lower half of the state was in flames 7 or 8 year ago....couple of other alternative routes.......lake I used to live in Lakeland also but moved to Jax about 12 years ago due to my work......couple of different routes are useable just depends on travel time.
^I know that route, I just like driving through the city so I take I-4. It takes me about 2.5 hours to get from Jax down to Lakeland on a good day. If traffic is bad in Orlando it could be 3 or 3.5.
I understand....usually I have the laptop up and running with a GPS fix so if there is an issue traffic wise then it's real easy to bypass or divert. Force of habit with me to have visual lock on just where I am at....comes from years of running around in parts of the world I have not been in before.