A Walk Down Herschel Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/648539052_M3bDn-M.jpg)
The commercial strip along Herschel developed as a result of the streetcar line that was extended through the corridor to provide service to Ortega in 1908. Today, this strip of Herschel is known for its mix of restaurants, offices, galleries and retail boutiques.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-sep-a-walk-down-herschel-street
Goalpost still open?
Also, wasn't there a redevelopment proposal along Fishweir Creek?
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6826-st_johns_village.jpg)
QuoteA 21 story, 216 unit condominium tower along with 20,000 square feet of retail. - Dead
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-results-of-the-boom-dead-projects
i don't think anyone uses the name "Fairfax" anymore.
I've heard Avondale, Westside, Roosevelt, & Fishwier......but not Fairfax. interesting.
Wasn't that supposed to replace the Commander Apts?
Yes, Goal Post is still open. Mmmmm, steak in a sack.
Also, I consider the Fairfax area Avondale, but that's probably inaccurate.
Quote from: riverside_mail on September 24, 2009, 07:05:03 AM
Wasn't that supposed to replace the Commander Apts?
Yes, the Commander Apts and the two story retail/office complex (St. Johns Village) on Fishweir Creek. As a part of the plan, a roundabout was also proposed for the intersection of St. Johns Avenue and Herschel just north of the creek.
Quote from: TREE4309 on September 24, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
Also, I consider the Fairfax area Avondale, but that's probably inaccurate.
Its officially outside of the historic district. We only used the name "Fairfax" because that is still what it is officially identified by. Nevertheless, I agree that a name change may be in order.
I'm pretty mad that the Commander Apartment building still stands. That proposal was awesome. These pictures were taken at a rare high tide. Usually fishweir is shallow enough for even non-wading birds to be out in the middle. Any chance we'll see pictures of the rest of the length of Herschel?? It's an awesome street and goes through some pretty diverse areas until it runs into Mossfire Grill in 5 points.
Is the dead project the marina where herschel becomes lake shore? The sign is still on the street.
QuoteThe width of Herschel Street serves as a reminder of its days as a streetcar thoroughfare.
I'm not sure Lake, that East of Herschel "green space" is shouting JACKSONVILLE TRACTION, as you know from our old photo searches, JTCO kept off the streets anywhere it was possible. btw, That right of way is not unlike the one that came into Edgewood Village down the west side of the railroad.
Wonder if we could find a map of the era. USGS 15 Min series between 1910-1930, they show streetcar lines with a cross hatch down the center of the roads. OCKLAWAHA
I guess I was too literal. I meant the width of the public ROW. That would include the street, sidewalks, diagonal parking and the linear greenspace.
Quotei don't think anyone uses the name "Fairfax" anymore.
I've heard Avondale, Westside, Roosevelt, & Fishwier......but not Fairfax. interesting.
For about 100 years, the streetcar and bus destination curtains had "Fairfax" on them, including the old 70 Naval Air, that served Ortega. A lot newbie reporters out there talk about driving trains, or in the trains cockpit... Its a case of not hanging on to our heritage. Nobody "drives" a train (in the USA) and a cockpit is on an airplane. Locomotives, streetcars, LRT, any rail vehicle uses the word "Cab". Fairfax was a streetcar boom "town" and if you follow St. Johns around that sweeping curve, you start smelling STREETCAR. Also a St. Johns and Roosevelt is one of the classic Jacksonville Traction red brick cube type substation. But it looks like tracks NEVER went down St. Johns... Weird.
Let's keep it FAIRFAX. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on September 24, 2009, 10:50:34 AM
I guess I was too literal. I meant the width of the public ROW. That would include the street, sidewalks, diagonal parking and the linear greenspace.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/SNvEcPtn7-I/AAAAAAAAA44/bpuQ6pSY1_0/s400/Jacksonville+Streetcar.jpg)
Not trying to be nit picky but we need to show the city that these beautiful beasts don't need streets, in fact they play better when left alone. This photo is one of many we have found that show Jacksonville Traction on it's own right-of-way. This one is Kings Avenue. Note it's in the grass and still has double track and landscaping. OCKLAWAHA
JeffreyS, the dead project is the tall building to the left of the Loop and Espeto. That building was to be torn down, as well as the Loop shopping center for a new tower and complex. The development you are speaking of is "The River Homes at Ortega Landing", which has been scaled back significantly, but partially completed.
(http://images.citysearch.net/assets/imgdb/41/18/16/99/80/80/7e/92/1a/3/85/53/24/6e/1c/f0/4/6/5/6/6324656.JPG)
you forgot Pastiche they are next to the fire station. Yum!
www.mypastiche.com/
As to the (now dead) Commander project, most neighbors were in favor of redevelopment of the site, but the scale/density of what was initially proposed by Balanky was rejected pretty quickly. Although he and the neighbors eventually reached a compromise of sorts, market conditions killed the project. The Fairfax Manor folks (in whose backyard the Herschel corridor lies) are an active bunch who stand up for the integrity of their neighborhood. I'm happy to learn the history of the area, and glad to know there's a group trying to preserve its character.
Is the Commander still occupied?
I have always known and heard the residents of the area call area Fairfax and the neighborhood on the point bordered by Fishweir Creek, The Ortega River, and Herschel/St.Johns avenue to be Fairfax Manor, and I believe there are signs that indicate that on the entrance to the neighborhood.
I would like to concur Goal Post is a great little sandwich shop, their "veggie Rider" is an awesome lunch.
Was McGirts Creek renamed the "Ortega River" because it sounds more prestigious?
Quote from: stephendare on September 25, 2009, 11:26:25 AM
less Piratey.
McGirts was an um.......private contractor.
Superb.
we forgot herschel animal clinic... and by clinic i mean free shots with dirty needles and cheap infections with every spay/neuter. A close friend of mine is a vet tech at an ER on the sside and sees more sick animals whose owners answer the question "who is your usual vet?" with "uh idk i just stand in line at herschel." and that's all he needs to know to gauge the severity of the animal's med history lol
We have taken a few pets there. Never had a bad experience. Other than the wait. I will spend a little more to go to Timuquana and not have to stand in line. Cox and Walker (dealt with them about 10 years or so) seem to be good vets.
people will go back and forth about herschel all day long. they do a service at a very low price for people that would just let there animals stay sick if it wasn't for them. I've never had a problem with several cats i have brought there with no problems.
Quote from: TREE4309 on September 24, 2009, 09:02:01 AM
Yes, Goal Post is still open. Mmmmm, steak in a sack.
Cheese and Bacon Grilled sandwich with large fries and a sprite.
Weird that the whole fly-by-night resurfacing of Herschel St [the portion which serves as a stretch of SR211] from Saint John's Avenue to San Juan Ave was restriped after being top-coated only to look THE EXACT SAME!
.. .when it didn't need it! btw.
Another neighboring overlay is still in the works, folks - for a deliberately slow, somewhat delayed, partially stalled roll-out which, as demonstrated and evidenced with so many comparable (and long ago completed) revisions to similar streetscapes (many refernced here on MJ) proving essential in bringing a renaissance to breviously blighted districts and corridors ...
roundabouts at Geraldine/St.Johns (ESPETO) and Woodmere/St.Johns (ECLIPSE) would be awesome and could be revisited with the aim of booming this commercial corridor into another walkable waterfront version of 5points?
should be considered missed opportunities.
Regarding streetcars.. . do streetcar tracks intersect well with CSX tracks? >> say if St.Johns was utilized for streetcar west toward a lane diet on Blanding, with Herschel south through San Juan also carrying a line along the Jacksonville Marina Mile? also out to Blanding? thence north to return to FJC/FCCJ/FSCJ Kent Campus...?
We're dreaming and scheming here but speculation is half the fun.
Also - anyone else here see the sense in this? vvv
The northbound lane3 on Roosevelt from Shawnee in Ortega to Park St East, specifically from Wabash, Roosevelt Mall - where no new "stacking"/turn lane will ever be built in front of Longhorn at SanJuan - and continuing along all of Fairfax - will be signed as a continuous RIGHT TURN ONLY lane.
Seriously - if you're north of Collins Road and headed to JIA, you have NO business in Lane3 at any time.
legislate it already and get the signs up.
IF JTAs BRT can remove all parallel parking from the shoulder of Blanding with a simple repaint of the road deck, then this reclaiming the outboard northbound lane on Roosevelt should have happened LONG ago!
For Christ'sake busses STOP at FSCJ IN THE ROAD on 17 immediately after the Park Street-Blanding connecting flyover!!!
the ONLY REAL construction cost to implement this "feature" of the next overlay coming our way is PAVEMENT REMOVAL! seriously no joke.
partial tapered widening of the triangular median where the current embarrasing HIDDEN DRIVEWAYS AHEAD -- which basically translates into - "WE had no foresight and overbuilt the boulevard and removed too much of all these front yards and effed up Fishweir creek while we were at it"
Quote from: jaxlore on October 02, 2009, 10:22:50 AM
people will go back and forth about herschel all day long. they do a service at a very low price for people that would just let there animals stay sick if it wasn't for them. I've never had a problem with several cats i have brought there with no problems.
The dangerous,wildly inadequate parking impact is curiously tolerated by city officials.Even absent comment in the citizen Overlay workshops.I reside down the street and even i the gadfly look the other way so to speak.Probably out of a sense of futility.
And it is fun to see all of the criters and the scene is a great laboratory for research on the the observation that pets and 'owners' often have the same features.TRUE.
Quote from: grimss on September 24, 2009, 08:55:40 PM
As to the (now dead) Commander project, most neighbors were in favor of redevelopment of the site, but the scale/density of what was initially proposed by Balanky was rejected pretty quickly. Although he and the neighbors eventually reached a compromise of sorts, market conditions killed the project. The Fairfax Manor folks (in whose backyard the Herschel corridor lies) are an active bunch who stand up for the integrity of their neighborhood. I'm happy to learn the history of the area, and glad to know there's a group trying to preserve its character.
Ohhhh Yea!
Fairfax et al well connected politically-even the Commander's Chamber/Cornerstone connections to no avail.Overlay public workshops clearly revealed opposition and also overwhelming support for the (agreed 'unlikely') creation of public park at Loop bulding area.It's there as a matter of public record.
By the way- the section next to Commander along the Creek-the trash bins-this area possibly public already??
As part of the long drawn out Fishweir Creek restoration drama there was a couple of years ago a bid as part of the plan to designate this spot as public/boat launch to accomodate public access.
From the water this section of the creek looks like a slum.The Loop building area projects out over the shore on raised piers.That must have been a dandy permitting file!And the Commander parking area- a product of the 60's pretty much 'pre permit'-projecting out in to former waters of the state,past the natural shoreline,filled in for a parking lot.You can easily view this yourself from the herschel street bridge.I personally feel that this protrusion has altered water flow dynamics which has contributed to creek problems.It will be interesting to see if the Corp of Engineers agrees.The photo op of the parking lot from the water is telling.
a beach.. . a beeyooteeful beach. will be / would be a perfect kayak launch..
Pennyburger still surfaces in conversation _The whole place sinks how much each year? I read it somewhere..
Is this the continuum of the wetlands restoration project of which the Jean st parcel is also an included element/
Any ideas how the retention pond at (the now ghost of) Fishweir creek lane on the west side of Hamilton, at the base of the fake pine/sequoia clad antenna tower north of Park st.immediately south of the blanding flyover, may relate?
>any one have photos of the area when perimeter rd was?
An old friend of mine had " huts " moved from what became FJC/FCCJ/FSCJ Kent.
anyone know how the once proposed (circa 1950s?)) River Oaks Freeway system would have affected this specific area?
RAP did a video summation of their efforts but only briefly describe it.
if the interchange of 17 and 21 had been fully completed? partially evevated??
Before the construction of Blanding took over the alignment and complete idea of Jersey Street? at St.Mathew's campus. A neighboring family has lived in the same section of RiversideVillas, (today called Murray Hill) from when Tunis was 51st street!
immediately west of "Old Orange Park Rd" a/k/a Park street today.
picture it all at grade. flat. not so wooded. heavily cleared. west of the pine grove. flat as open pasture.
the redesign of it all provided a small north-south scattering of small bands of wetland mitigation parcels scattererd and addressed in later years with the construction of series box culvert conversion to bury the water table and yielding the drainage problems of the areas today.
would be very interesting to cite the creation of the batch plant between Avent and Collins.
it took many years and tons of fill to build then later widen the Roosevelt Boulevard we have today.
and through Ortega.
old topographocal info spent my wheels turning
but near Yerkes west of 17. hidden now.
as related to me.
Imagine living in your country house with front verandah parallel to the rail, hundreds of feet away, through the woods a bit out of town with a "camp" safely near enough to not worry. Your hotel room, office, and life live IN town.
not my story.
before Cassat was fully built into the FAR OUTER loop AROUND town and still named Fuller St.
when the Quan family owned farms they flooded
before Blanding transitioned into Park Street, and was still named Saint Johns Avenue. 21.
there was a tale of two cities - and Woodmere had Ortega in its backyard.
wasn't the chunk of the pig trail along the tracks that became 17 (along Fairfax today) originally named D'mere street north from SanJuan? when there was no ROAD along the tracks south from SanJuan.
before SR15 became Federally rebuilt for the war, and designated US17
when perimeter loop around FSCJ was just that.
before a SR211 was designated
before the site of the current buckman bridge was chosen.
since the Grand Avenue bridge was the way in town from any farm or plantation to the south - if you drove a horseless motor coach.
I guess perimeter loop was the perfect site for a future divisive interchange..?
it's no secret that fAIRFAX had another name once upon a time. White's?
only real next dilemma (some thought) was which way to go to cross the river _into Miramar(??)
through Boone Park over Richmond? Potentially yes, despite the well heeled fight?
but not over Mr.Crabtree's property and NOT through purpose-built Azalea!
Yes. Fairfax Mano®. well connected.
it was hoped by many and thought by some that the 'later' road deck to be built along the rail easement would sail over the tracks once north of Ortega and be named Hamilton Boulevard?. along the west of the tracks.?
Think elevated road deck like Main Street through Sanmarco southbank?
Ive imagined if all northbound motorized traffic along the river's edge, from Green Cove into Jacksonville weren't pinched off at the relatively few crossings allowing access to the west, Avondale may have never experienced the overrun, or could've possibly been bypassed altogether.. ?
eversince, the Saint Johns River Crossing Corridor and related studies.. . the FCOB
I hear the reason there are cars in the creek bottom of Fishweir is because the north/east sloping marsh toward the creek was once a huge dump site like Gehenna before Fishweir school was even built before 1917!
what is now Park was once allowed to lay in waste seemingly indefinitely almost intentionally while many knew the "expressway was coming to save them"
I clearly have more questions than answers/
When I was a kid my dad dug a pool 11 feet into that mess and the amount of olD artifacts retreived seemedimpressive.
tiles, broken dishes, bronze, silver, brass, bits of "junk metal" scattered throughout.
back to thread - I will always think it ridiculous to have the majority of the parking across the street from the businesses. On Herschel south of PS20.
I understand the Presbyterian Church shouldn't lose their on-street parking_ even if they did finish a huge adjacent lot.
Is it because the Fire Station is on that side?
couldn't the lane shift be moved south of St.Johns westbound to somewhere between Shirley and Marquette? that bus stop is either screaming save me
(to some of you)
or knock me over. either way it could move further away from the preschool kids playing.
Why MUST the road’s centerline be as straight as a crow flies/
btw-ANY and ALL thoughts regarding a posible rounda bout at Blanding/Park street?
is there really a NEED for a signals?
IF the outboard lane of Blanding north from Cassat became a right turn only lane through San Juan, in lieu of constructing stacking turn lanes, and the road deck of the ParkSt flyover were adjusted to include a pedestrian/bicycle facility to FSCJ, considering the nature of the curves and the grade, traffic speed is already partially "controlled".
intermittently reducing a current thru lane dedicated to motorized traffic would be instrumental - and would yield a greener round.
ROUNDIES at Geraldine and Woodmere on Herschel.
Saint Johns and Blanding!
any pics any where from anyone?
My aunt has one of the old wooden bridge over "Big" Fishweir Creek.
there are so many trees, you cannot see the school from the present day Loop.
Sorry Ricker but I'm having a history laugh on your thread..(At MJ this is not taken as a Hijack, but valuable history)
Anyway several years ago(2003-2008?) some Spoiled Brat from Ortega was forcibly ejected from the Eclipse Lounge.
He proceeded to come back several hours later and ram the front door of the structure with his vehicle.
maybe Stephan can find this incident in the Archives.
BTW this is not related to the 2007-2008 incident where these store owners had their plate glass windows permanently cracked from vandalism..
Hijack what? I'm no comedian=questions are rarely funny. .
???
I spent many years many years ago on Geraldine.
never knew then I would have so many questions about it all today.
^^^Stream of consciousness
sorta sorry
some random chain-of-title work coupled with a recent life estate donation of property subsequent to a conversation with a law man friend of mine specializing in entitlements, more from a retrospective view versus cherry picking - I digress...
I see that Herschel is qute the TOD. but 100 years later, at a rare safe vibrant protected calm inland position along our river, taking full advantage of the Marina Mile should include accessibilty to the waterfront and river itself for green recreation on our waterways.
public access to our river is vital to my selection for who should steer this this oneday metropolis.
Any ideas WHY we shouldnt ensure ourselves a few more launch points by preserving, and creating public spaces along the waterfront?
In this immediate area, someone here believes that a slice of land between Espeto/Sylvan and the Commander is or may be public?
Any ideas WHY we shouldnt ensure ourselves a few more launch points by preserving, and creating public spaces along the waterfront?
In this immediate area, someone here believes that a slice of land between Espeto/Sylvan and the Commander is or may be public?
[/quote]
Yes,or possibly.The subject emerged a couple of years ago,related to Fishweir Creek Restoration proposal and the thought then was if the creek was going to be restored then the publuic should have immediate access and the focus for a brief period was the slice between Espito and the Commander envisioned as public 'ramp.
By the way,on another potential uphill public access/visual scenery matter,consider this:
The owner of the Commander Apartments also owns the waterfront lots at the easterly mouth of Fishweir.Just a few feet outside of the RAP protective boundary-there exists the propspect of two new McMansions on the property-prepare for local waterway visual scenery plunder.
And what a dandy public access,yes? But there could be problems with neighborhood concerns etc.The Espito/Commander location ideal.Also an expanded Ortega bridge facility.