Metro Jacksonville

So here we are.

The neighborhood is at a propitious moment in time, with a clear crossroads ahead of it.

It has every asset it needs in order to go on to a greater future, but two things are presently stymieing its forward progress.

1.  The Bubble.  This left millions of dollars of loans outstanding in a neighborhood that is going through the same devaluation as everyone else, putting an effective halt to much lending in the way of homes.   It also put City and State into an awkward position and cut off funding that might have sustained a downturn without any pain.

2.  The Neighborhood politics.  This has been amply demonstrated on the threads for the past few months.   SPAR, the merchants, the politics of social justice, gentrification, racism and classism.  Welcome to America, welcome to the South.  These conversations were covered over with an avalanche of easy money, but without that free flowing cash, they bubbled right to  the surface again.   Add to that a layer of personality driven politics and you have a perfect storm.

So the question is:

How to move beyond the present cluster hump, utilize the assets of the neighborhood, include everyone in the benefits and create that better future and district that everyone really wants at their heart of hearts?

Please contribute solutions.  Real suggestions.  Lets talk about the resources, and lets talk about a plan that everyone can benefit from.

I like to find the positive in any situation and I have found the positive side of the Real Estate bubble to be the influx of new, awesome residents to the neighborhood. It was a catch 22. I bought in 2001 after many years of watching and pleading with my husband to give Springfield a try. I was glad to see the values rise because it stopped the steady stream of flippers that were robbing the historic homes of their charm. They were ripping out architectural details and replacing them with the cheapest possible replacements so they could turn a nice profit. Now, I don't begrudge anyone a profit but those of us who love old homes and have taken on a restoration know it is more like a money pit than a money maker. Truly restoring a home is a labor of love. Now the prices have fallen but the flippers are also gone and they have been replaced with homeowners. I don't want to speak for others but this is what most of my friends and neighbors say they've wanted all along. Values will rebound, they always do. I always want to be smart about an investment but I buy a home because I want to live in it, not to get rich. It bothers me when I see  negative posts by a few people that others see as a representation of the whole neighborhood. There are hundreds of people living their lives and loving Springfield everyday who have no idea this forum even exists. Springfield is not defined by any one person or group. We are all individuals doing what we love. I just had a party of giggly girls, all recent college grads wind down at my house. Girls who live all over Jacksonville. Some have been here many times before and some were here for the first time. The only thing they know is that we have a cool house where they are all welcome to hang out and have a good time. There are so many good things happening and Springfield will continue to grow. The number of residents keeps growing, Main St. is almost to the finish line and I have no doubt the commercial corriders will follow the residential growth. It may take time and that's okay. Businesses like Three Layers, Hola, The Pearl and Shantytown prove that Springfield is a viable commercial  market. We spend our money now in other areas but new businesses will figure out that we will spend our money here if they offer services that we want and need. Thank you Stephen for starting this thread. I love Springfield and invite anyone to come to one of our First Friday parties, Wine Society, Mommies Club, SACARC, Women's Club, etc. etc. etc. events. Tommorrow we have a clean up at the GLBT center and a Kentucky Derby Party at the Women's Club. Next Weekend we have a Murder Mystery Dinner to Die for and the first weekend in October Three Layers is hosting a two day musical festival. Come out, have some fun and experience the positive things going on in Springfield.

We need leadership which can unite us, use us and benefit all of us. 

...and there are leaders like this in the neighborhood.  Doug V. and Alex S. are two that immediately come to mind.

Quote from: stephendare on September 19, 2009, 11:50:34 PM
So here we are.

The neighborhood is at a Propecia's moment in time, with a clear crossroads ahead of it.

Fixed it for you. ;)

1) not much anyone can do about the housing market. Springfield has actually stood up pretty well with  purchases and construction relatively high.

2) i don't think neigborhood conflicts (i assume that's what you mean when you say 'politics') have a very big impact on things at all. for those involved, sure, but everyone else...not really.

Quote from: fsu813 on September 20, 2009, 10:39:16 AM
2) i don't think neigborhood conflicts (i assume that's what you mean when you say 'politics') have a very big impact on things at all. for those involved, sure, but everyone else...not really.

I think politics do have a big impact. We need a neighborhood organization which can unite the different groups and bring them all to the table talking constructively regarding issues and potential solutions. No organization will be able to please everyone as the interests are too diverse. The goal should be to come up with an acceptable compromise to all parties. Then all parties could stand united behind the organization and the reached compromise and be one large joint force to the City. The internal bickering only weakens us as we appear to the City and other organizations as not knowing what we want.
I would like to see a large door to door survey to find out what everyone really wants. What is good, what is bad and what needs most urgently to be improved. Once we know that we could start looking for a compromise.
All groups in Springfield need to be heard and bring their positions to the table in a peaceful and open manner. Some groups that come to mind (and I sure forgot some):
- homeowners
  - new house
  - historic home
  - bought low
  - bought high (at peak of housing bubble)
- renters
- business owners
- landlords
  - special use operators
  - rental unit operators
- different income levels (poor, middle class, upper class)
- long time and new residents
- different age groups
- artists
- GLBT
- single, married, with and without children
- non profit organizations
Some persons may fall into multiple categories. It would also be challenging to come up with a fair set of questions without trying to manipulate the outcome.

Despite the lull or halt of real estate and/or lending activity in Springfield relative to housing and construction in general, Springfield is still leaps and bounds above and beyond what it used to be.  Hopefully the engine will re-crank and restart relative to lending to complete the goal(s) of making Springfield a much better neighborhood, than it already is, within Jacksonville.

Heights Unknown

Alex,
you are right about having all parties meet at the table.  That is step one.  Just being able to have a dialogue would be huge.  Perhaps it can be looked at like this.  First step is getting to a point where there is a willingness to work together.  Second step is finding out the needs of the diverse population (ie.  your survey).  Third step is bringing the ideas to the table.  Fourth step is coming up with an agenda which, while not meeting everyone's needs, will to some extent make peace possible. Fifth step is the beginning of the work of implementing the identified needs and ensuring an equitable plan for Springfield's future.

11. Strong churches with long-term pastors who have been preaching in this neighborhood for decades.
12. Good bus route
13. Shands/Allied Plastics/Swisher -- close by and growing
14. Lots of mom and pops stores
15. FCCJ at its entrance

I don't feel it's necessary to break it down into race, as everyone would be included, as listed in Alex's list. Of which, I totally agree with.

We could hold a meeting like that at St. Mary's Episcopal on the corner of 9th and Laura.  I'm sure Sue Carmichael would allow us use for something this important.

Just a thought.

And Lisa S. is a leader.  Although we have not always agreed -- matter of fact, rarely agreed :) I have come to believe that she is a person of integrity.

I am one of those that was able to move into Springfield because of the sharp downturn in home prices.  I bought my house less than a year ago and if not for the downturn the neighborhood would have been far beyond my means.  

I think the neighborhood organizations are missing a great opportunity.  I just don't think we're marketing ourselves very well.

Let's look at some of our available resources:
-A handful of good realtors who know the neighborhood inside out
-Small businesses who know how to market, create buzz, brand (i.e. Three Layers, Zombie, Burro)
-A very diverse group of residents that cover a large spectrum of professional fields.
-Several groups with the ability to mobilize people and organize events.

What if all of the above worked in concert to create a single marketing program for Springfield?  How about a website listing homes for sale only in the historic district (as well as available commercial space for sale or lease)?  A print campaign highlighting all of the benefits of Springfield and distribute it to the media, local large business. Advertise it.  I work for a big company here in town and know a few people who are house shopping right now.  It'd be great to have something to give them.  Leave this information in employee break rooms.  Distribute it to the military personnel who work with those who are relocating.  Promote it on the web for out of towners searching for homes in Jax.

Just some thoughts.  I'm certainly no marketing guru but it looks to me like we have the people to pull this off.

Quote from: stephendare on September 20, 2009, 06:29:55 PM
Still needs inclusion. 

Carl.  Of Carl's on Main Street.  I really don't know him very well, but I admire his tenacity. 

Quote from: untarded on September 20, 2009, 06:30:26 PM
I am one of those that was able to move into Springfield because of the sharp downturn in home prices.  I bought my house less than a year ago and if not for the downturn the neighborhood would have been far beyond my means.  

I think the neighborhood organizations are missing a great opportunity.  I just don't think we're marketing ourselves very well.

Let's look at some of our available resources:
-A handful of good realtors who know the neighborhood inside out
-Small businesses who know how to market, create buzz, brand (i.e. Three Layers, Zombie, Burro)
-A very diverse group of residents that cover a large spectrum of professional fields.
-Several groups with the ability to mobilize people and organize events.

What if all of the above worked in concert to create a single marketing program for Springfield?  How about a website listing homes for sale only in the historic district (as well as available commercial space for sale or lease)?  A print campaign highlighting all of the benefits of Springfield and distribute it to the media, local large business. Advertise it.  I work for a big company here in town and know a few people who are house shopping right now.  It'd be great to have something to give them.  Leave this information in employee break rooms.  Distribute it to the military personnel who work with those who are relocating.  Promote it on the web for out of towners searching for homes in Jax.

Just some thoughts.  I'm certainly no marketing guru but it looks to me like we have the people to pull this off.

Well thought out comments. Hope your home-ownership experience is pleasant for many years.

Here are some things happening in Springfield as I know them to be. Today we opened the first and only GLBT center in all of Northeast Florida right on Main Street Springfield and Wow! We had almost 40! volunteers today! YES I said 40! Our community filled a 20 cubic yard dumpster in 1.5 hours, we hung a flag on Main Street Springfield, I met 30 new Jax GLB and straight people (we missed having someone from the Transgendered community...), we sparked additional hope for GLBT people of Northeast Florida and Main Street while beginning to create an Oasis for GLBT People of N.E. FL...and we did that ALL IN ONE DAY! I do want to say a special THANK YOU to our straight allies who live here in SPRINGFIELD!

City Kidz ice cream just opened a month ago. Mike and Waffas is kickin. Uptown Market is slated to open in a brand new state of the art building and kitchen. Upscale housing has been created for Proton Center patients and is now ready for occupancy. The wine Bar- The Cellar at Three Layers opened 3 months ago. I personally had 4 real estate closings this month..that is 4 new residents just from my sales and we have several fine neighborhood realtors that too have had sales this month as our neighborhood provides affordable housing!  Operation New Hope is slated to build Leed Certified Homes.  A new home is being built on 9th and Hubbard by Signature Homes of North Florida.  Our animal rescue SACARC just put on a successful festival at a Springfield Park -Dog Days! Hola Mexican Cafe owner  Vic says he has never been busier. Three Layers is growing by leaps and bounds. Springfield Area Merchant Business Association SAMBA has been ramping up their efforts to help small businesses.  SPAR has secured many grants for Main Street Beautification and has a FULL TIME person working on commercial corridor development. SPAR is actively seeking grants for park improvements and Museum plans. Trees are being planted by the city  along most streets on the East Side of Springfield. October 3rd and 4th is Autumn a 2 day outdoor Springfield Music Festival www.autumnmusicfest.org , Zombie Bike shop is awesome! Southern Living Magazine is actively writing and article about Springfield and how it is one of our nations best neighborhood comeback stories...the article will feature Zombie Bikes or Burro Bags (cant remember which), a Three Layers Photo shoot, and a Photo Shoot with the BEST mommies group in all of Jacksonville...the Springfield Mommies Group!  We have the oldest and most active (Springfield) woman's club in all of Jacksonville if not Florida a whole. We are nationally known and well respected as a historically preserved community. We have the largest active wine society in ALL of Jacksonville. We have a Main Street that is finally nearing a COMPLETE renovation. We have THE BEST and MOST parks as a neighborhood in all of Jacksonville. We have an off leash dog park for not only small dogs, but a separate one for Large. We are blocks to the St. Johns River, can ride our bike to work,the Landing, the Riverwalk, Riverside Arts Market, and Jags games! When we walk on our wide SIDEWALKS we TALK to our neighbors under the beautiful oak trees as they sit on their LARGE front porches! We have natural gas in most homes, large lots, an alley system to provide most of us with off street parking. I have felt more community here and made more friends in two years than I did in Atlanta in 15. 

So people I ask you...what IS ailing this community?  as it is CLEARLY moving forward!  Perhaps it is an old way of thinking that needs to be changed, instead of chasing a phantom Ail that simply DOES NOT EXIST.

    If you haven't been to Springfield in a while, come on and take a Sunday drive to Three Layers a Coffeehouse or one of our other fine businesses and SEE our neighborhood in action.

I can tell you this, my family and I LOVE IT here!  We are enjoying and helping to create all the fine opportunity this neighborhood has to offer.

http://www.youtube.com/v/S8_up5AvEEc&hl=en&fs=1

Shawn thanks for sharing the good news! it is nice to hear sometimes.

Quote from: sheclown on September 21, 2009, 08:34:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8_up5AvEEc

hehe...nicely done. beautiful song and very timely.

Those of us who live in Springfield know that this is more than just a neighborhood. We know that there is more to the homes we have here than just wood, concrete and brick. We understand that there is a history here â€" both good and bad. But that that history is on a definite up swing. We know that we live in a community in the truest sense of the word.

I won’t tick off the many amenities we enjoy as others have already done this. I won’t complain about the things we are missing; again already covered. What I do want to talk about is how do we sway the opinions of others?

As mentioned above, Springfield has a reputation. People have forgotten that the neighborhood was once one of the most prosperous in the city and remember only the darker days. And, even though we are making great strides, even though the neighborhood is safer than it has been in 40 years, long-time residents of Jacksonville insist that Springfield is a “bad area.”

How do we change the opinions of these people? How do we get realtors from outside the area to stop telling clients that they don’t want to live in Springfield because it is a bad area? How do demonstrate that we are a great community for families, for couples of all orientations and for businesses?

Untarded hit the nail squarely on the head when he talked about marketing. We need to market our community to the widest possible demographic possible. Think about cities and communities that do this well: Daytona markets itself as Mecca for motor sports and beach-goers, Kissimmee markets itself as the friendly, accommodating and less-expensive neighbor to Disney, St. Augustine markets itself as the oldest city in the country thus grabbing historically-minded tourism.

What can we market? First and foremost, that we are a community which cares for and supports one another. That our homes are rich in historic significance and are among the most beautiful and architecturally diverse in all of north Florida. That we have incredible amenities and the potential for many more. That we are progressively-minded yet protective of our historical fabric.

How do we market the neighborhood? Through many more in-community events geared to bring visitors from far and wide. The Autumn Music Festival at Three Layers, Dog Days in the Park and the Christmas Home Tour are excellent examples. But we need to do more; we need to create several iconic festivals perhaps one in spring and one in the fall. We need to utilize and highlight our parks and, when completed, our Main Street corridor.

Perhaps in conjunction with the Christmas Home Tour we could create a Christmas Village on one of the lots on Main Street. I have been to one of these on the streets of New York and it was magical â€" particularly in the evening with colorful lights, a wood burning fire, hot cocoa and brightly lit vendor tents. How about a fall Harvest Festival in the parks with vendors and activities like a hay bale castle and hay rides for the kids. Apple cider, pumpkin pie and other foods associated with autumn and live country music acts including high-profile star. How about a juried art festival in Confederate Park in the spring to bring in local as well as touring artists? Again with a musical component such as acoustic artists or swing and big band sounds.

To raise the awareness of our neighborhood we have to share its treasures. We have to remove the stigma of the past and emphasize our culture, our beauty and our community. We have to be willing to sponsor large events and advertise the heck out of them. And we have start the marketing wheels turning.  

While we are mentioning assets, we need to mention these as well:

The area includes residents from the most basic blue collar worker, retail workers  and stay at home moms (and dads) as well as that highest level professional. 

Historic Springfield can not stand alone.  We have the Metro Edge study to help us understand that and to see the area we need to be concerned with.

The pawn shops on Main Street have been here for years and have helped keep Main Street from being totally deserted. 

Carl’s Restraunt has been a stable as well.

The labor pools ( Main, Ionia and 8th streets) which allow the basically unemployed to get work, and put a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs. 

The tax places have helped  keep a few store fronts active rather than sit in decline.

There are a few other retail areas like Pearl above 8th that have remained active.  This includes a barber shop, a thrift store with a fish market and jazz club coming.  On that same corner is a successful unifiorm store.

There is also a place on Market and 4th (?)  that houses a thrift store and has had a restraunt before.

There is a clothing store on  3th and walnut? that hasn’t been open long.

The new thrift store on Main is the first new retail on Main Street in years, I believe.

I’m sure I have missed some, like Tommy’s, the various convenience stores ( 3rd and Main, 6th and Market, Liberty BP, 3rd and Market, Speedway) that serve the majority of the residents needs.  Let’s include Springfield Superette as well.

We also need to nod to Valarios used appliances,  the print shops , the auto repair locations, the car dealerships, Catlins and more. As we need to cover the commercial area, we can include Pascos as well as more restraunts and smaller stores.

Chans, Yangs and all the barbeque places.

The folks that offer low income housing also provide a much needed service and must be included as an asset.

The point of this is that while some of these places are well received by many, many are not so very much accepted by others, yet they all play a very important role, if not vital role, within this diverse community.   

All of them have to be including in the plans and marketing for Springfield to be truly successful.

Preserve the building fabric that's still standing, allow for denser development along the major streets and make sure All infill and adaptive reuse projects are designed to include these walkability principles.

http://www.urbandesignla.com/walkability.htm

^^ I agree, particularly on the first point.

From my 400 mile distance view, the biggest problem I see with Springfield is the very thing that makes/made it special is being destroyed.  The continuing pace of demolition is VERY disturbing. I have no problem with appropriate new construction on all the vacant lots, but many significant buildings have been lost in just the very recent past.  New construction cannot match the character of what is being lost.  I realize that not everything can, or even should, be saved, but MOST of the recent demos COULD and SHOULD have been.   

What is worst of all is that the CITY is often the initiator or instigator of these demos.  If that were the case in today's 'cover story' city, Charleston, there would be riots in the streets.  History isn't preserved by 'market forces' or 'good will', it is through diligence and popular support that demands political support.   

Sometimes it seems as if even SPAR has thrown in the towel.     

I think something which contributes to the demo is the fact that folks don't quite understand the different construction techniques.  A building may look as if it will fall down, you may even get an engineer to agree; however, these old houses were built using "balloon construction" a really cool and sturdy way to build a house.  The wall joist go from the bottom sill to the roof rafters.  They don't stop for the second story.  Add this to the fact that the wood is old, hard, and true and houses can stand a long time after you think they ought to fall.

That is why so many are left.

I agree, Lake & Vicupstate.  Once these houses are gone, they're gone.  The inferior building materials of today won't hold up --and tomorrow? --the new houses will be gone long before some of the old ones.

To tell the truth, I'm more worried about the historic commercial structures than I am with the houses.  When the old brick commercial buildings go down, they usually do so without a sound.

That is a very good point.  Which ones are in danger?  Are there any green-tagged?

Since 1998, how many commercial buildings has Springfield lost?  It seems to me that it is only 4 or 5, and a couple of those were "in-fill" rather than on main commercial avenues. Still, perhaps too many, and you are right in that they normally go down without a community fight, but far fewer percentage wise than the residentital structures.  The city seems more likely to leave that old commericail building stand while lately the city seems very quick to take that old house.  Now, if you count the houses like the ones at West 7th and Main zoned CCG-S that we lost, then the total is higher.

I do agree that a big part of any "fix" is to keep the remaining historic structures in place. As we are being told the next crash is commercial, keeping the remaining historic structures becomes even more important as new will be less likely to be built.  The existing, even if it has to changes hands for some reason, should be able to offer more affordable rent.

Quote from: stephendare on September 21, 2009, 05:06:15 PM
The Bakery building on 8th.
the Fire Station on 8th.
The Silver Dollar on Main Street
The Deco Church on Main Street.
Three corners of 8th and Pearl Street
The Southeast corner of 8th and Hubbard.
The old hotel on Hubbard

Those are just on the main streets.


And I think Im missing a couple more on 8th Street by Shands.

I stand corrected.... many more than I remembered.  Very sad.

Perhaps we could help with a summit...I would think we could get a good venue for it on Main Street.

8th street lost a lot.  10 years ago, there were buildings between Silver and Pearl on 8th.  Funky buildings, remember Strider?  We were going to rent one and we looked them over.  Not to mention the laundry on the corner of 8th and Pearl, just feet from Home Away From Home.  Cool looking place that was operational in the 90s.  Brick building, I think. Van Horn "accidentally" knocked that one over.

And, the loss of the hotel on Hubbard between 1st and 2nd is immeasurable.  I almost bought that building, but couldn't get a clean title.  It was filled with wrought iron mantles.  And, it was definitely sound enough to restore.

Ahh...Just as well...we probably would have turned it into a "rooming house"  ;D

Stephen, remember when you were on Main with Boomtown, how the area from 9th to 6th became a very walk able stretch of Main Street.  Many of the issues that are complained about and seen as a detriment to the commercial development just sort slid away as people began just using the streets again.  Not "taking back" the streets, but just using them.  The dealers and such move on, the guys sitting out by the street just having a good time seem to go unnoticed and the street takes on a good vibe again.  I guess this took a little over a year of hard work and persistence to get that way?

With what is already there on the 7th to 8th streets block of Main, can this be done again?  Should a concentrated effort be made to get more into the same block rather than further up or down Main?

Having operated Maxx's (now Ole) at the same time Stephen ran Boomtown,  I can completely agree with Stephen's statements. One of our biggest issues was not enough evening traffic. We were too far south of the "walkable" corridor and we could only turn so many tables at lunch.

Ann Arbor-Main Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559874342_fuvrG-M.jpg)

Pittsburgh-Strip District
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/592817622_rxFpV-M.jpg)

Baltimore-Hampden
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/592126308_V8Q4w-M.jpg)

Tampa-Ybor City
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8315-p1170941.JPG)

Albany-Lark Street
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-7092-p1120862.JPG)

Buffalo-Elmwood Village
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6441-p1130193.JPG)

Clustering, complementing uses in a compact setting.  If you look across the US, successful urban core revitalizing commercial districts typically have one ingredient in common.  That's the presence of building stock to house these uses.  If there were no historic building stock between 6th & 8th, that scene would not have happened.  This is one of the major reasons downtown's revival has taken so long.  All of those little buildings that could have housed lofts, galleries, retail, restaurants, clubs, etc. were deemed ugly and have been bulldozed for parking lots and speculation of what could replace them decades into the future.  Imo, more reason to save as much of the historic fabric as possible.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-46-dsc01807.jpg)
Its hard to get to those type of scenes above when you're in love with bulldozers.

Quote from: JagFan07 on September 24, 2009, 06:14:11 PM
Having operated Maxx's (now Ole) at the same time Stephen ran Boomtown,  I can completely agree with Stephen's statements. One of our biggest issues was not enough evening traffic. We were too far south of the "walkable" corridor and we could only turn so many tables at lunch.

Great example of the struggles a business can take when their location is too isolated for synergy to take place.

As well as a good illustration of how demolition hurts the effort. To grow a new marketplace, new construction is necessary to cluster businesses together. Anchor centers already know this. It is ancient wisdom.

Why demolish our history to replace it with a glorified strip mall that will be out of fashion in 10 years? (the blink of an eye)

Well, we certainly can stop the bulldozers, Lake.  We just need to get organized and do it.  It starts with ANYONE WHO SPOTS A GREEN TAG ON A HOUSE OR BUILDING, post it here.

Kids I don't travel much in that part of town but when I do I will keep an eye open for that green tag! I can understand just how having those types of buildings can lead to a revitalization.....many many options but the bldgs have to be there first!