I'm a member of NARP so I got this e-mail today
Help Us Defeat Anti-Amtrak Amendments Today
Wicker, Ensign to Introduce Harmful Measures on Senate Floor
Dear NARP Member,
This morning (Wednesday), the Senate is expected to vote on some amendments that would affect Amtrak.
Sen. Roger Wicker (R-MS) proposes to eliminate funding for Amtrak effective March 30, 2010, unless the railroad accepts guns as checked baggage by that time. One source claims this would shut down the railroad because Amtrak does not currently have "the infrastructure needed to properly secure baggage at this time."
Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) apparently is considering a hostile amendment that would eliminate unspent Amtrak funds from the current (FY 2009) appropriations law and the Recovery Act. "Unspent" simply reflects timing issues; Amtrak still needs the funds. Please remind your senators of your strong support for passenger trains and urge them to vote against this and any other hostile amendments.
--Ross B. Capon,
President and CEO
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I hate how Amtrak can't be mentioned without the "federally subsidized" and "money-losing" taglines. Highways and airlines don't get those adjectives.
Quote"Americans should not have their second amendment rights restricted for any reason, particularly if they choose to travel on America's federally subsidized rail line," said Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., who made the proposal.
Wicker's amendment would deny the money-losing railroad its $1.6 billion taxpayer subsidy unless it changes the gun policy.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jy5lpZWAlHMsQHhsYdZKdcaPFjKQD9AOHMOO1
Quote"Amtrak would have six months to build a process for checking and tracking firearms. It would have to find the manpower necessary to screen and guard firearms and it would have to purchase the equipment necessary," Murray said. "If they do not comply, Amtrak will shut down."
The term "Idiot" is not quite strong enough..........blithering Idiot has a better ring to it!
Does Amtrak have "checked baggage" similar to the airlines? Not sure what the procedure is now but you could transport firearms as checked baggage with the airlines at one time. Seems Amtrak could do the same easily enough. IT IS a silly reason to withhold all funding to Amtrak because of this. How about passing legislation requiring them to figure out a way to do so.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
QuoteTraveling with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition
Photo of a firearm improperly packaged. You may only transport firearms, ammunition and firearm parts in your checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.
There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR § 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.
The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:
You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft. TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.
Photo of a firearm properly packaged. We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.
Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.
Also, please note that many other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check with the authorities at your destination about their requirements.
Amtrak does not offer checked baggage at every station because of funding issues.
Thanks Lunican... I was totally unaware with how amtrak dealt with checked baggage. If a train stops to embark or debark passengers why would it be too expensive to throw luggage into a checked baggage compartment? I ask because I am ignorant on this...
It wouldn't be too expensive if someone was there to do it, but some stations are unstaffed.
(http://www.marp.org/pix/birmingham1.jpg)
In this photo you can see the platform isn't even long enough to reach a baggage car, so they would have to do a double or even triple stop.
ah...an Amshack
I don't really care how many guns are in the baggage car, but threatening to pull funding for this reason is stupid.
I agree. I would think a reasonable compromise would be to allow firearms transport at facilities that CAN support it and not allow it at facilities that cannot. Once again... I do not know Amtraks current policy regarding firearm transport. Is ALL transport under ALL circumstances banned. If so this seems to be a bit unreasonable also.
BT somehow that just seems too reasonable.
Here we go...
QuoteProhibited Items
The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:
Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
Animals (except service animals).
Oversized and/or overweight items.
Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Title_Image_Copy_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1080080553878&ssid=195
I dont understand why trains have a problem with unloaded, locked in a case, locked in checked baggage, firearms and airlines do not. Now I am MORE than curious... What is up with that??
Since they don't screen baggage I'm not sure how they would know anyway.
:D Just my luck... I would be taking amtrak to South dakota for a pheasant hunting trip and have to risk becoming a felon to do it.
BT,
1. guns to hold up Amtrak funding.
2. Abortion, and illegal immigrants to hold up healthcare reform
All extraneous issues to the larger issues. These pet issues should be resolved separately and not hold up major funding bills. But because they are emotionally tinged to rile up the base, they get rolled out, time and time again, even at inappropriate times as with the Amtrak funding bill.
Faye .......have you noticed this kind of firewall lives whenever something that effects all of us tries to live? Not sure if its the GOB's hard at work because they did not get to skim off the top or if it is just a natural occurrence that take place when change starts to rear its ugly head! Either way we the people are the ones who suffer through some dingbat trying to make a point or score points!
Faye... you may not have noticed my earlier post where I agree that the funding should not be withheld because of this issue. If the firearm isssue was a seperate one would you support an airlines style policy to allow firearms transport?
I realize that from your point of view abortion and illegal immigration are extraneous issues. From my point of view and many others they are not. This is the problem with these "debates". Your dismisiveness of others concerns proves you are not interested in my concerns or objections... you simply want to push through what you want.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 17, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Faye... you may not have noticed my earlier post where I agree that the funding should not be withheld because of this issue. If the firearm isssue was a seperate one would you support an airlines style policy to allow firearms transport?
I realize that from your point of view abortion and illegal immigration are extraneous issues. From my point of view and many others they are not. This is the problem with these "debates". Your dismisiveness of others concerns proves you are not interested in my concerns or objections... you simply want to push through what you want.
Yes, I noticed your position that Amtrak funding should not be withheld because of the gun issue. What's preventing a Republican or any other Congressmen from putting that issue in a separate bill?
Same is true with the abortion issue. It is such a contentious issue that it cannot and should not be discussed in the context of healthcare reform,..............as such it is just intended to hold up healthcare reform.
It isn't even mentioned in any of the HCR bills, simply because the HCR bills aren't intended to change anything on the abortion issue. Neither is the HCR bill intended to change anything on illegal immigrants, for which better border control is the main answer.
And, until this country does more about prevention through education, like other western nations do, we will not see the major reductions in abortion rates that we are all seeking. But like I said, that's a whole other issue.
Quote from: CS Foltz on September 17, 2009, 05:59:37 AM
Faye .......have you noticed this kind of firewall lives whenever something that effects all of us tries to live? Not sure if its the GOB's hard at work because they did not get to skim off the top or if it is just a natural occurrence that take place when change starts to rear its ugly head! Either way we the people are the ones who suffer through some dingbat trying to make a point or score points!
Exactly CS Foltz,........ I have seen it over and over again. For example, the so-called "Pro-Life" movement held up the quest for life for the injured and those suffereing from incurable, deadly diseases. Here the abortion issue got injected into the stem cell research debate, when this never happened in response to the private industry in vitro fertilization procedures at fertility clinics, that are the actual suppliers of discarded stem cells, which in turn have the potential to save lives.
Holding up progress and innovation is not what America used to be about.
UPDATE FROM NARP
Dear NARP Members,
Good news. Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) will not offer his amendment to strip Amtrak of all unspent funds appropriated under current law. No further amendments affecting Amtrak are expected to be offered on the Senate floor before passage of the fiscal 2010 transportation spending bill.
The above post is good news... and is the proper way to proceed. Now that that is out of the way... Faye... would you support the hoped for separate bill providing firearms transport using similar methods as the airlines?
BT- due to Faye's sponsorship by (insert liberal activist group here), she is obligated to attempt to steer every thread back to health care reform. Take no offense at her apparent lack of interest to your legitimate point, your statement was just an opportunity for her to fulfill her contractual obligation.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on September 17, 2009, 11:40:56 AM
The above post is good news... and is the proper way to proceed. Now that that is out of the way... Faye... would you support the hoped for separate bill providing firearms transport using similar methods as the airlines?
If they are checked in like with the airlines, it seems ok to me.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 17, 2009, 12:01:14 PM
BT- due to Faye's sponsorship by (insert liberal activist group here), she is obligated to attempt to steer every thread back to health care reform. Take no offense at her apparent lack of interest to your legitimate point, your statement was just an opportunity for her to fulfill her contractual obligation.
Very cute ;D
The fact is that for decades, that has been the tactic of conservative groups, tacking on the gun, abortion and immigration issue at every opportunity,.......hence the Amtrak amendment.
Bills get hyjacked just to make a point as CS Foltz explained,.....or to indefinitely try to delay or kill a bill as in the case of Healthcare System Reform.
Whatever happened to "By any means necessary"?
Big guy........you do realize that could be taken from both sides of the discussion right? Too extreme for my taste buds but different strokes for different folks!
I should have used a winky to demonstrate the tongue in cheekiness.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3930640872_4d98abdf50.jpg)
The last time guns got on a train in JAX, was when our famous
cowboy star, Tom Mix, rode to fame and we WERE Hollywood!
Here tis, both Florida Senators voted PRO-GUN. Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 16, 2009, 5:24 pm
Senate Votes to O.K. Checked Guns on Amtrak
By Bernie Becker
The Senate voted on Wednesday to allow Amtrak passengers to carry unloaded and locked handguns in checked baggage, even though Amtrak officials had raised concerns that the proposal could present “numerous challenges.â€
The provision, which was introduced by Senator Roger Wicker, Republican, as an amendment to a housing and transportation spending bill, is the latest in a string of Senate votes aimed at expanding gun rights. It passed 68-30, with a group of 27 Democrats and one independent, mostly from states where gun rights are widely supported, joining all 40 Republicans in voting for the measure.
Under the Wicker amendment, Amtrak would lose the funds earmarked for it in the must-pass spending bill if it did not comply with the new regulations. In a statement released after the amendment passed, Mr. Wicker stressed that the guidelines laid out in the provision â€" which would also insist that a passenger notify Amtrak that he or she is transporting a handgun and that only that passenger could unlock the secure container holding the gun â€" are roughly the same ones used by airline passengers.
“Americans should not have their Second Amendment rights restricted for any reason, particularly if they choose to travel on America’s federally subsidized rail line,†Mr. Wicker, a Mississippi Republican, said in the statement.
In a letter to the top Democrat and Republican on the Senate appropriations subcommittee that deals with transportation, Thomas C. Carper, the chairman of Amtrak’s board, said airlines and railroads currently have different abilities to screen for weapons. He said that unlike airlines, Amtrak did not already have a uniform system in place for screening and added that Amtrak’s baggage cars are more easily accessible.
“As a result of these significant differences with the airline industry, Amtrak would need a significant amount of time and funding to properly address this congressional mandate,†wrote Mr. Carper, who is not to be confused with the current Democratic senator from Delaware.
Senate opponents of the provision had similar concerns.
The Democrats who voted for the gun amendment were Senators Max Baucus and Jon Tester of Montana, Michael Bennet and Mark Udall of Colorado, Jeff Bingaman and Tom Udall of New Mexico, Kent Conrad and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, Russ Feingold and Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Mark Warner and Jim Webb of Virginia, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Mark Begich of Alaska, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Jeff Merkley of Oregon, Bill Nelson of Florida, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Harry Reid of Nevada and Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire. (The full vote breakdown in a graphic.)
Amtrak used to allow passengers to check licensed guns, but ended the practice after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.
The Senate has already approved separate provisions this year that would allow properly permitted gun owners to carry in national parks and would loosen gun laws in Washington. Additionally, a July proposal that would have allowed permitted gun owners in one state to carry concealed weapons in another fell just two votes short in the Senate.
The House has already passed the spending bill without the gun amendment, so it remains to be seen whether the provision will make it into the final version of the legislation.
Makes me wonder how long the wait will be for light field artillery? Certainly some of the coffee that I've had in South America, could qualify as chemical warfare agents. (Of course that only happens on the Brasil or Peruvian side of the river). (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3930641032_0fed7f42b4.jpg)
All you sharp eyed, wanna-be railroaders, this recent scene has a HUGE,
MASSIVE error in it, can you spot the blooper? The Movie editors and producers
as well as the historian all missed it! REALLY FUNNY TOO!
OCKLAWAHA
Double boilered?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 17, 2009, 09:24:14 PM
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3930641032_0fed7f42b4.jpg)
All you sharp eyed, wanna-be railroaders, this recent scene has a HUGE,
MASSIVE error in it, can you spot the blooper? The Movie editors and producers
as well as the historian all missed it! REALLY FUNNY TOO!
(http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/shay06.jpg)
Here is your answer, check out that train of "passengers" from another direction! Top speed maybe 5 mph, this is a geared logging locomotive called a SHAY. Some built on the US West Coast were called Willamette Shays. Other classes of locomotives for these special jobs Heislers, and Climax.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock........I did notice the lack of a "Cow Catcher" but did not think twice about it.........unusual rig for sure!