Metro Jacksonville

In the last decade, this type of development has typically sprung up in and around downtown areas across the US.  It will be interesting to see how successful this one turns out to be.

QuoteToys R Us is being converted into fun for all, across from The Avenues mall.

Workers are renovating the shuttered toy store into a 45,000-square-foot, multi-function entertainment venue that will combine a bit of Dave and Buster's and San Marco Theatre with The Comedy Zone of Mandarin and a sports bar thrown in.

Called Latitude 30, the east/west demarcation for Jacksonville on a map, a cavernous floor space once home to toys, bicycles and baby clothing will have a restaurant, sports bar, arcade, gaming center and three theaters. Set to open in February, Brownstone Group managing partner Brent Brown said it took some convincing when the idea of mixing bowling alleys with a restaurant and other activities came to him.

"At first glance, I picture bowling with the old-time lanes and the bad food," Brown said. "It took a little convincing to jump on board."

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/business/2009-09-12/story/planned_development_at_avenues_to_offer_luxury_bowling_theater_more

Sounds like fun. Something different at least. We'll see if consumers bite and it takes off.

Heights Unknown

I am not really sure that "Luxury Bowling" is a real money maker but you never know! It might be the next Apple of the Bowling World! At least there are bus's running in that part of the world but most of the possible clientele will more than likely drive!

Splitsville in Tampa does quite well....since it is a "cool place to be seen" they get away with $5 games of bowling and $15/hour for the billiards tables!

Went to a Dave and Buster's in Houston a few years ago. It had a bowling alley on the second floor.  It was the nicest thing I'd ever seen. Glass barriers in between the lanes leather seating and nice wood trim everywhere  While it's too bad this wont be downtown , it is a great concept and should work well.

I'd like to say how excited I am about such an interesting and fun new establishment we'll be going to.

Maybe next time.

My intuition tells me that the more successful businesses there are in that area, the more corporate allies we would have for getting the southeast corridor rail line (or Amtrak, whichever comes first) running with a station at the Avenues.

Great point PM.  That area will quickly become more of a destination only needing a rail link to tie it to the core.

This sounds like an interesting place though I agree with CS about not being true it can survive much.  Also I remember reading on here a while ago about Avenues Walk having a Brunswick Zone XL bowling center put in.  Which those have sports bars and what not in them as well. 

Intriguing...   Luxury bowling is almost an oxymoron.  I stand to remain positive though, only hoping for the best for this establishment. 

By the way, I thought I read somewhere (maybe even on this site) that the Brunswick Zone thingy wasn't happening.... 

First off, disclaimer - as I've said elsewhere, ever since I saw this place announced, I've been excited about it opening. I think it's going to be fantastic.

So with that...for the doubters about "luxury bowling," it's not as ridiculous as it sounds, and in the right environment can be a HUGE boon. An easy example is one that I've mentioned elsewhere on this site (and not to "pull an Ock" and mention it wherever possible ;) ) - the E. 4th District in Cleveland (see the recent Elements of Urbanism (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-aug-elements-of-urbanism-cleveland) thread for a little background/discussion).

One of the corner anchors on E. 4th street is The Corner Alley (http://www.thecorneralley.com/) - a hugely popular location that's simply a luxury bowling alley and a nice restaurant with some other entertainment sections. They take reservations 3 days out for their lanes...it's a really popular destination.

Now, with that said, it's important to point out part of the draw there is location - E. 4th is probably one of the best entertaiment and night out districts in the city. On a former abandoned alleyway, you've got Corner Alley, Pickwick and Frolic (awesome restaurant/comedy club/martini bar), Lola (an upscale restaurant by Michael Symon of Iron Chef and Food Network fame), a House of Blues, as well as a number of other bars and pubs, all in a very walkable urban environment. I've said over and over - if Jacksonville had ANYTHING resembling E. 4th St, I'd be there as often as my wallet allowed. And there's plenty of other cities that have examples of districts like this as well.

So from the looks of it, Lat30 looks to be cramming everything I loved about this district into one building:
- Luxury bowling? check.
- decent quality restaurant? check.
- comedy club? check.
- casual pub? check.
- small music venue? check.

Add a decent club and it becomes an entertainment district in itself.

And that's my fear with this - conceptually this place could be fantastic and become a real entertainment destination for Jacksonville. That said, it's location is terrible, and there's no extra draw for anyone to go there (the ginormous Wal-Mart behind it doesn't count ;) ). The thing that makes general entertainment districts work so well is usually someone goes for one reason, and ends up getting drawn into everything around it (taking E. 4th - you go for a show at House of Blues and discover Corner Alley or something like that). Lat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it. Maybe if/when the residential and other commercial aspects of Avenues Walk are built in eventually it'll help out, but who knows if it'll be around that long.

For me personally, the location is fantastically convenient and I look forward to frequenting the place when it opens. I just fear I'm the minority that applies to.

I'm sure it will be a big deal when it first opens but when the shine wears off I doubt it will stand the test of time.

In my perfect Jacksonville I would have added it to the recently renovated Landing.  See, I would have sold off the land to Toney Sleiman and made sure Mr. Kuhn provided a nice new mixed use tower across the street providing the necessary parking.  Add to that the newly removed Main St. ramps to make way for a linear and vertical convention center thrown together by a Sleiman/Hyatt partnership.

Alright, back to reality.  I still think this place would be better downtown at the Landing (assuming something can be done with the parking requirement.)  Just add it in on the Hogan St. side where the soon to be relocated Andrew Jackson sits.  Would look great with the comming Laura Street renovations/upgrades.

Did he actually get the Landing for $6M?

Is that facility not worth four times that amount? At least?

Did he use loans from the city to pay for the puchase?

I have many quastions about Tony Sleiman, but few answers. Rumors abound.

Should I not be asking these questions?

Quote from: stephendare on September 17, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
No! Ask away.

He got the building without being able to buy the land.

That partially cover it, but I would imagine the land is worth no more than four or five million dollars. Perhaps even as much as seven million. As for the structure, it must be somewhere between 15 and 25 million dollars. I cannot imagine such a structure being built for 6 million.

How did he pull that deal?

Exterior is coming along nicely. They're using some stone and darker color tones on the front, which is different than most of the crap out there.

What building downtown is currently empty and big enough for something like this?

I think Sleiman purchased the Landing for $5 million from the Rouse Company.  No city money was involved.  Rouse simply wanted to get out of Jacksonville and the festival marketplace business.

As for the bowling alley, one of the partners teamed up with the owner of my old firm on this about 18 months ago.  I did a lot of preliminary work on the concept.  At that time, they wanted to build it at 9A and Gate Parkway.  I tried to convince them that these things work better in an urban setting but their heart was sold on the Southside.  My old firm is gone, but it appears the guy behind the bowling concept hooked up with his contractor to move his dream forward.  I wish them luck but I still believe the concept works better in entertainment oriented settings (as Clem1029 suggested) and don't see it as competition to DT.

Old Barnett Bldg has potential for all of the above!

Luxury bowling?!??you've got to be kidding

Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2009, 11:07:43 PM..........I think Sleiman purchased the Landing for $5 million from the Rouse Company.  No city money was involved.  Rouse simply wanted to get out of Jacksonville and the festival marketplace business..................

In 1986 The Landing construction cost was $20 million. I guess that represents  22 years of depreciation and current value.

This sounds more like something else that has bowling than a luxury bowling center. The only successful bowling centers I'm familiar with are miles from downtown.

I am somewhat familiar with this project and won't go into details, but it's not just luxury bowling. I believe it will turn out fantastic and expect it to be very successful.

Website:

http://latthirty.com/index.shtml

I've been to a place like this in Dallas.  It was pretty cool.

From The Daily Record:

QuoteFamily entertainment center to open by summer
Slowly but surely all of the elements of Latitude 30 â€" Jacksonville’s first all-inclusive family entertainment center â€" are coming together.
Monday, workers were in the process of tearing out the front windows of the 45,000 square-foot Phillips Highway building that’s across from the Avenues Mall. At the same time, the project’s developers â€" The Brownstone Group â€" added Greg Garson as a partner and Renee Shields as director of sales and marketing.
By summer, Brownstone cofounder Brent Brown plans to open the doors to a facility unlike any other in Northeast Florida. When complete, Latitude 30 will include a sports bar, a gaming room, a theater for live performances, an intimate movie theater, 20 bowling lanes, a bar called Axis for the 10 p.m.-2 a.m. crowd and more.
While there will be plenty to do and curiosity will make for big initial crowds, Brown and Garson both understand there’s a key to repeat and steady business.
“Everywhere in this facility you will be able to eat,” said Brown. “We are considered a restaurant first. We are very proud of our menu.”
The project â€" which includes an option to purchase the building and the land â€" will cost $10 million to become operational. Brown would like to open no later than early summer and plans to employ 150 people.
“This is considered a destination,” he said. “It’s easy to get to and one of the best in the city.”
Garson said the central location will help draw people from all over Northeast Florida.
“We are at a crossroads and it’s easy for people from Orange Park, St. Augustine, Nocatee and the Beach to get here,” said Garson, who joined Brownstone Group after a 27-year career in the securities business as an investment banker, advisor and securities broker.
Shields spent the previous 15 years with Dave & Buster’s as its corporate sales manager.
“Renee’s expertise and years of experience in the entertainment industry make her a great asset,” said Brown in a release.
“Getting her was a major coup,” said Garson.
With the management team essentially set, Brown and Garson can concentrate on opening the facility. The former Toys R Us has been gutted and will require plenty of work inside and out. Some of the infrastructure is ready for installation, but a few of the floors have to be raised and poured. The floor of the movie theater will have be lowered by four feet.
When done, the sports bar will include 16 flat screen TVs and one giant screen with indoor and outdoor seating. The movie theater will show second-run movies and even some of the classics. There will be couches and booths and even a row of recliners. And yes, you will be able to have a beer with the movie.
Brown said the concept is modeled after a handful of similar entertainment centers across the country. While Latitude 30 may include an element of several of them, Brown is pretty sure his center will be the only one that includes just about everything.
“We are considered a hybrid,” he said. “This is what the area needs.”
Garson said the draw of Latitude 30 will be its appeal to everyone in the family, regardless of age.
“There’s a huge need for the family side of entertainment,” he said. “Outside of the beach, where can you take the whole family? We are going to put this together with an eclectic atmosphere and it will appeal to everyone.”
Brown said his development group is close to establishing a similar project in Nashville (what would be Latitude 36) and they have looked at a handful of sites in Pittsburgh (what would be Latitude 40).

I think this place will likely be a success, nothing like it really. Plus, it'll provide a needed boost to the Aveneus area.

Why is everyone stuck on the "luxury bowling part"?? There will be more than just bowling in the facility. Stop being so negative geez  :-\

name change please! it sounds like a club, not a family-centered activity center.

There doing what made Muvico of South Florida famous - combining movies with other venues.

It's also a takeoff on I-Pic, which was spun off from Muvico by founder Hamed Hashimi, which is launching in Wisconsin, NJ and other places. The key ingredient that is missing though is a dance space. If they add that near the bar area, the place will take off.

I-Pic http://www.ipic.com/

QuoteThe thing that makes general entertainment districts work so well is usually someone goes for one reason, and ends up getting drawn into everything around it (taking E. 4th - you go for a show at House of Blues and discover Corner Alley or something like that). Lat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it.

I concur.

This thing should have been built at the SJTC at the very least.

The city should have worked with them to offer major incentives to put this thing by the baseball park downtown and arena. That would've been huge.

QuoteLat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it.

This thing should have been built at the SJTC at the very least.

But couldn't the same be said for Dave & Buster's?  Also, consider that this place is directly across the street from The Avenues.

good point blizz....and its a redevelopment site that is using the existing Toys R Us building.

Quote from: rjp2008 on February 16, 2010, 02:31:27 PM
The city should have worked with them to offer major incentives to put this thing by the baseball park downtown and arena. That would've been huge.

That would be a great spot for something like this.

Quote from: rjp2008 on February 16, 2010, 02:26:01 PM

QuoteThe thing that makes general entertainment districts work so well is usually someone goes for one reason, and ends up getting drawn into everything around it (taking E. 4th - you go for a show at House of Blues and discover Corner Alley or something like that). Lat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it.

I concur.

This thing should have been built at the SJTC at the very least.

I disagree. I feel this the problem with Jacksonville now. We focus all of our money and resources in one area, and leave everything else lacking. The SJTC has enough going on it is as it is. They do not need any help. I feel the location that was chosen is perfect. We need to keep the avenues area up to par so we wont see what we see happening with Arlington. We always wait until a once popular area goes to hell before we try to do something about it.

I also digg the idea that they used the old toy's r us building. Very creative.

QuoteI disagree. I feel this the problem with Jacksonville now. We focus all of our money and resources in one area, and leave everything else lacking.

We have the opposite of this problem downtown.  Instead of focusing on getting one area right to spur density, connectivity and urban synergy, we continue to spread the dollars invested there to thin.  Thus downtown is literally like the rest of the city.  A sprawling mess with no one dominant area where everything clicks.  This is the exact opposite strategy of the majority of cities in this country that have vibrant downtown cores today.  Anyway, back to the Southside.

Quote from: blizz01 on February 16, 2010, 02:46:41 PM

QuoteLat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it.

This thing should have been built at the SJTC at the very least.

But couldn't the same be said for Dave & Buster's?  Also, consider that this place is directly across the street from The Avenues.

Dave & Busters was built prior to SJTC being built and before 9A/295 was built.  Dave & Busters likes their buildings to front major interstates.

That D&B is so dated in it's games its pathetic :/

and they got rid of the pool tables a while ago >_>

Quote from: Sportmotor on February 16, 2010, 05:32:28 PM
That D&B is so dated in it's games its pathetic :/

and they got rid of the pool tables a while ago >_>

What's wrong with PacMan and Space Invaders?  :D

Note - I've never been to D&B, so have no idea what games they have.   8)

Call me when they get luxury darts.

...or high-stakes ski-ball :D

Quote from: whitey on February 16, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Dave & Busters likes their buildings to front major interstates.

Although, it can hardly be seen from the interstate unless you're really looking for it.  It's so out of the way and hidden...I'm surprised it's still there.  I guess it has its following though.   

Things are coming along nicely and they're doing plenty of exterior work right now.