Does anyone know what's happening with the old Barnett building? Someone mentioned it in the construction update thread but I thought it deserved it's own thread and I didn't want to hijack. It is the coolest building downtown!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3433/3908366584_0b5ae8431d.jpg)
still looking for a buyer...
What is the price?
This should be MetroJax headquarters and member residence. The first labour of love for our yet to be formed co-op/urban renewal PAC/not for profit restoration & refurbishing organization.
$6.5 million. Fantastic building and location. Tough sale unless someone has ca$h.
As a not for profit urban renwal project could we not apply for federal stimulus money?
It's "shovel ready". Why should AIG and BOA get our grandchildrens money?
I guess you could apply and hold your breath ;D
Each floor in that building has been stripped down to its bare shell.
Anyone know the square footage of this building?
I wonder if Mike Langton could take this on? How is his company holding up in this economy?
Quote from: braeburn on September 10, 2009, 10:29:51 PM
I guess you could apply and hold your breath ;D
Each floor in that building has been stripped down to its bare shell.
That is a huge plus.
The ceilings on the first floor, which are amazing, were intact when I last looked in at the beginning of this year.
With the building being a blank slate, for the most part, demolition costs have already been assumed.
Fire supression, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, low voltage, along with walls and isulation and you moving right along.
http://apps.coj.net/PAO_PropertySearch/Basic/Detail.aspx?RE=0737420000
Year Built 1923
Type Gross Area Heated Area
Unfinished Basement 2653 0
Base Area 2653 2653
Unfinished Basement 5145 0
Base Area 5145 5145
Finished upper story 17 87465 87465
Unfinished Basement 75 0
Canopy 75 0
Finished upper story 17 1275 1275
Unfinished Basement 1662 0
Base Area 1662 1662
Finished upper story 17 28254 28254
Unfinished Storage 1662 0
Unfinished Basement 325 0
Base Area 325 325
Finished upper story 17 5525 5525
Unfinished Basement 1375 0
Base Area 1375 1375
Finished upper story 17 23375 23375
Unfinished Storage 1375 0
Total 171401 157054
Element Code Detail
Exterior Wall 20 20 Face Brick
Roofing Structure 10 10 Steel Frame/Truss
Roofing Cover 4 4 Built Up or T & G
Interior Wall 5 5 Drywall
Int Flooring 14 14 Carpet
Heating Fuel 4 4 Electric
Heating Type 4 4 Forced-Ducted
Air Conditioning 4 4 Packaged Unit
Ceiling Wall Finish 5 5 S Ceil Wall Fin
Comm Htg & AC 1 1 Htg & A/C Pkg
Comm Frame 3 3 C-Masonry
Element Code
Stories 18.000
Restrooms 54.000
Baths 181.000
Rooms / Units 245.000
Avg Story Height 11.000
Traversing Data
At 154,000 sq ft selling for 6.5 million, it is a cost of about $42 per sq ft.
Depending on structural conditions, it would likely cost 50-100 dollars per square foot to get space updated and into sellable/rentable contition. Those costs could be much higher. I have only done single family homes and wood framed or CMU commercial buildings in the past, so my experience here is negligible.
I would see a need to be able to resell at under $150 per sq ft in order to compete with suburban track homes, unless they were to be luxury condos. (Downtown Market already saturated?) There will be only about 135,000 sq ft of living or office space. Halls, stairs, elevators and lobbies will take up a bit.
I am not an estimater but IMO the price needs to be lower.
(http://www.apartmentwiz.com/dallas_apartments/images/dallas_apartments_images/dallas_downtown_apartments/867_dallas_downtown_apartments_2.jpg)
The Dallas Texas "Interurban Building." Today it is called Interurban Lofts. Quote from: buckethead on September 10, 2009, 09:45:44 PM
What is the price?
This should be MetroJax headquarters and member residence. The first labour of love for our yet to be formed co-op/urban renewal PAC/not for profit restoration & refurbishing organization.
Wow, what an idea! Big NEON on top reading MetroJacksonville.com. Somewhere on the lower level, another neon sign saying, "GO BY STREETCAR", with the Jacksonville Traction Company logo. That building would be killer cool as a downtown station for JTCO. Such a "station" would be in the mold of thousands of early streetcar HQ and "station/office" buildings. OCKLAWAHA
Someone should at least close the windows! Won't it rot the insides if rain gets in there?
So they are seriously considering demolishing (destroying) this magnificent piece of Jacksonville history and artifact? They'd better not! If they do, they'd better put something tremendous in its spot because it will create a huge and noticeable hole and void in the skyline!
Heights Unknown
Quote from: heights unknown on September 11, 2009, 10:55:12 AM
So they are seriously considering demolishing (destroying) this magnificent piece of Jacksonville history and artifact? They'd better not! If they do, they'd better put something tremendous in its spot because it will create a huge and noticeable hole and void in the skyline!
Heights Unknown
Heights, Hey my man, I haven't heard of any plans to knock it down, but if they do, Ocklawaha and the urban adventurers are going to have a field day entering the old tunnel system underneath. I think the tunnels would make for a surreal and fantastic tourist and night spot. "THE MAZE AT JACKSONVILLE!"
I would think with the Courthouse finally going up, the spillover effect will cause quite a few revived projects, including the Barnett. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 11, 2009, 10:34:47 AM
(http://www.apartmentwiz.com/dallas_apartments/images/dallas_apartments_images/dallas_downtown_apartments/867_dallas_downtown_apartments_2.jpg)
The Dallas Texas "Interurban Building." Today it is called Interurban Lofts.
Looks familiar. Metro Jacksonville has been here before. Here are a few images, from 2006, of the building and it's grocery market at street level.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/dallas_tour/UrbanMarket.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/dallas_tour/UrbanMarket-Interior.jpg)
Even as a kid I was in love with this building. It's always been a favorite of mine. I sincerely hope something useful and great comes of it.
I thought this building would make a great location for some type of college, like the Art Institute of Jacksonville - what are they doing in Baymeadows?? The ground floor could be art, music and dining venues, the middle floors could be the school and the top floors could be student lofts. This would bring youth and vibrancy to downtown and hopefully they would set up shop and residence downtown after graduation. Any value to this idea?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 11, 2009, 11:17:23 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on September 11, 2009, 10:55:12 AM
So they are seriously considering demolishing (destroying) this magnificent piece of Jacksonville history and artifact? They'd better not! If they do, they'd better put something tremendous in its spot because it will create a huge and noticeable hole and void in the skyline!
Heights Unknown
Heights, Hey my man, I haven't heard of any plans to knock it down, but if they do, Ocklawaha and the urban adventurers are going to have a field day entering the old tunnel system underneath. I think the tunnels would make for a surreal and fantastic tourist and night spot. "THE MAZE AT JACKSONVILLE!"
I would think with the Courthouse finally going up, the spillover effect will cause quite a few revived projects, including the Barnett.
OCKLAWAHA
Great thinking "Ock" great thinking. Hope the Courthouse does spur development around its area, LaVilla and hopefully the core of downtown, but I get this feeling our leaders are not going to seize that window of opportunity either.
Heights Unknown
That is a great idea "Gen7" but I don't think the Art Institute is going to move anytime soon. Maybe someone should put a bird in their ear, and the City Government's ear, get them both together to talk and even plan regarding the idea to try to lure them downtown in that magificent piece of ART, the old Barnett Building. And it is "brilliant," your idea, as Stephendare iterated.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 11, 2009, 10:34:47 AM
This should be MetroJax headquarters and member residence.
I'll chip in, all I ask is in return is a nice floor to sleep on after a night at Mavericks!
COJ has missed at least 2 or 3 promising opportunities to bring large schools downtown. I just don't think they care, or it doesn't fit their plan or something. If they even have a plan.
The powers that be have a fear of becoming a liberal city.
If they would just open their eyes, they would realize that the best cities in the world are liberal cities.
Capitalist and entrepeneurs thrive in these cities. The inner city is the heart and soul of these metropolitan areas.
A nicley furnished room makes for a lovely home. A beautiful urban core makes the setting for life better for all.
I'd rather live in Austin than Houston. Jax seems to strive to become Houston.
The campus idea is quite the brilliant one. Anyone got about 18 million dollars we can spend? I volunteer to chair the college of humanities. :)
There are lawyers who post here that could offer insight into obtaing public funding. I fear we would need to circumvent our city government. Perhaps even the state.
Perhaps if we pledge our allegience to the FED?
How can we compare Austin or Dallas to Jacksonville? Austin has the capital and the university, a MAJOR TEXAS university with 2x the students of JU/UNF/FCCJ all rolled together.
Dallas - Downtown lofts, that is quite a fair comparison.
Barnett Building lacks parking, people, and its still not completed. A nursing school just opened up off of Salisbury in the former Pulte complex of buildings. Why here and not downtown? People, space is already built, and plenty of parking, not to mention it is close to Dave and Busters and can be seen from the road. Now for a college looking for free ads, why would anyone move into the Barnett Tower, when its view is blocked by the BofA building?
Anyone remember the old time and temp reading from the Barnett Building?
Did the time/temp sign fall victim to the most inane signage regulations in the United States, or was the building already vacant by then?
It had fallen into disrepair so it was dismantled.
Quote from: reednavy on September 18, 2009, 09:29:48 AM
It had fallen into disrepair so it was dismantled.
Actually, they just took all the bulbs out of it and painted it over. But unless something's changed in the last year or so, if you stand in Hemming plaza and look at the Barnett, then you can see it still hanging on the side of the elevator house.
Quote from: buckethead on September 12, 2009, 09:06:55 AM
The powers that be have a fear of becoming a liberal city.
If they would just open their eyes, they would realize that the best cities in the world are liberal cities.
Capitalist and entrepeneurs thrive in these cities. The inner city is the heart and soul of these metropolitan areas.
A nicley furnished room makes for a lovely home. A beautiful urban core makes the setting for life better for all.
I'd rather live in Austin than Houston. Jax seems to strive to become Houston.
I agree with you; they seem to be scared. I guess they want to keep that southern small town feel though Jacksonville is a big City. They need to get over it (snap).
Heights Unknown
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 14, 2009, 10:47:16 AM
Anyone remember the old time and temp reading from the Barnett Building?
I do, I do (and no I don't want gum). Need to revive that sign...oops, I think they took it down.
Heights Unknown
Bucket -- any chance of that happening? Anyone got Billy Gates' phone number? Can we convince the powers that be -- I mean First Baptist -- that THEY want a university? (note, yes, I'll take anything)
I'd rather see the building demolished that become FBCC.
Someone smarter or more connected than me will need to lead the way. It's all I can do to keep my own mortgage current. I do have some expertise in construction, but as it applies to Hi Rise, I am not up to speed. That I do not fear. I could run the project if needed be, but financing and permitting would be beyond my means.
I was thinking FBU. Or something like Liberty or Oral Roberts. I'll gladly take any other sponsor, tho. CSXU? WDU? George Jenkins University?
Until the current Administration leaves town..........forget about the City doing much of anything. Its all they can do to keep putting our money in their pockets. They don't have time to worry about little things such as vision or maybe a plan for downtown or maybe what they were elected to do! Multi use Bldg might be nice but I think that the condo market is kinda saturated and today's economy prohibited much in the way of acquisitions!
I think Donald Trump ought to get a shot of restoring that building. And maybe restore that electronic clock. :D
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4660-p1090944.JPG)
Okay boyz, I AM one of those NASTY CHRISTIANS! God has to forgive me because I came up as a hippie then a Vietnam nut case.... "But Ock! You have a mouth like a sailor, and drink like a fish..." Yeah, well I AM a SAILOR and am quite partial to fish!"
I think if we quit ragging on FBC (I'm not a member there, though I once was), and sat down with their board, you might be amazed a how willing they are to mold their buildings into "our" downtown.
As for schools, something that was talked about back when the late doctor Homer Lindsey (friend of Stephendare and myself) was pastor and head of the Southern Baptist Convention. There has always been a small seminary (Thomas Rice) here in town, but it's ultra conservative and doesn't really fit the modern church image.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/575454034_pg87F-M.jpg)
First a lesson:
Since so many on here don't even know what the Baptist Church is, or how things are done... The original Baptist faith go back a bit beyond Martin Luther, meaning the Baptists were already tied to a stake, before Luther started an avalanche of dissent. At the time the nearest thing to "organized" Baptist faiths would be found in the Mennonite Church. In America, the Baptists began to split off from the Mennonites in the Great Awakening. Baptist took a VERY literal interpretation of the Bible, using it as history, textbook, doctrine, and as an outline into church structure. Because of pioneer racism, as each group of churches grew, they pulled their resources, publishing efforts. Many of these early groups went by literal names, such as Swedish Baptist Association. When north and South split up, so did the church, Northern Baptist and Southern Baptists. Some of the groups protective of what they considered as "the original church," got into legal battles and the government (Supreme Court) stepped in breaking down the church into "Conventions". The church that won "the original church label" Came from the baseline doctrinal studies of each Convention. The courts sought and found that baseline, which was identified by a court ordered name, PRIMATIVE BAPTIST. General Baptists, Northern Baptists, Southern Baptists, Missionary Baptist etc... all came from a mix of religion and law.
Mostly the conventions today meet like Vatican Councils. Everything including doctrinal questions are carefully studied and voted on. The Conventions set the tone for all published content, study materials and democratic authority. Conventions also take care of the human needs within their group, this could range from EF-5 Tornadoes in Oklahoma, to 5.9 earthquakes in California. Baptist services go into action as soon as a need can be identified. When my desert cabin in California was split in half by a 7.8 earthquake, the highways into and out of the high desert were shutdown by the highway patrol, and aided by the USMC at 29 Palms, NAVY at China Lake, etc. My mother and father were living there at the time, and we had great worries about water access, fuel delivery's, and food basics. Red Cross might have been able to help some, but a call to the Southern Baptist Convention (from Florida) kicked the SBC into quick action, by afternoon, I got a call from a "Baptist Relief Helicopter," they needed directions and I was able to talk them home on the phone. My mother a former Baptist Sunday School Teacher, and my father a retired minister of music, couldn't believe their eyes when the big helicopters landed in the front yard!
Hope this helps y'all understand, that the LOCAL church makes the LOCAL decisions. Improvement to downtown Jacksonville, is no exception. Membership in the Convention can change with a vote and the Convention is merely the agent for the churches.
Since 1980, FBC JAX, has wanted to create a downtown school, K-12 and we are finally starting to see dirt move. Now is the time for the urbanest at MJ, to meet with FBC, Bethel, and the A.M.E. churches to get them into a mutual benefit, land use plan. This could well be the case, they want to be good neighbors, pulling in a major school campus might bust the downtown wide open. I would go kicking and screaming praying for a branch campus of the Dallas Theological Seminary. Many of the most progressive church campuses have their roots in Dallas Theological. Conversely Bob Jones University, need not apply.
Let's tell FBC, we support their month to month parking garage's. Thank them for making their corner of downtown more beautiful, Skywalks, Tunnels, Christian Bookstores, fountains, parks, Coffee Shop, Student Lounges, new playground, and access to the Skyway, with some encouragement would be like pouring gasoline on a flame.
OCKLAWAHA
Sounds good to me Ock! Now how do we get them on the bounce and moving?