Capitalism: A Love Story.
http://www.youtube.com/v/JeROnVUADj0
I agree that unbridled capitalism is niether sustainable, nor just. (read; Rockefeller, JP Morgan) Should I include Sorros here?
Likewise, unbridled "democracy, populism, socialism" is niether sustainable, nor just (read; Mob rule, Bolshevism, French Revolution)
There cannot exist any absolute ideology or socio-economic system without a level of tyranny which must be ultimately overthrown.
The real question (IMO): Have we reached that point with regard to Capitalism?
Moore cracks me up. Anti-capitalist that is a multi-millionaire because of free market capitalism. Dang the irony. I will give it a view though.
Quote from: DavidWilliams on October 03, 2009, 08:39:56 PM
Moore cracks me up. Anti-capitalist that is a multi-millionaire because of free market capitalism. Dang the irony. I will give it a view though.
Capitalism did nothing for Moore. He did it on his own: In a vacuum.
yea, right. ;)
He isn't a millionaire because of capitalism?!
SURE....
"Capitalism did nothing for me." Whoever believes that should come see me for some Eskimo ketchup popsicles.
He invented his own cameras, film, industry, actors and subject matter. I was rightly scolded for suggesting in another forum that any successes I have had were my own. I was reminded that every successful endeavor is achieved using that which was put here before me. It applies to Mikey too.
The entire film industry is based on capitalism. Even if he never recieved a penny of startup money from a venture capitalist, the medium in which he thrives is based on pure capitalism.
It can be argued that China is much more capitalistic than the US.
Now that is the intellectuals answer. It only took four or five paragraphs of telling me how much you know to get an answer. I am happy that you have such a grasp of Marx's work, but I disagree as to its importance. The capitalist system has been around for thousands of years, and Marx's European view of the mid nineteenth century is based upon his life and observations of that time. Smith and Disreali's works and the works of many others helped to define the "capitalism" that overtook the West in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. It's funny, as I have gotten older, I find this kind of thing to be even more boring and useless than I did in college. Which lead back to the question, what existing economy in the world would you most like to emulate? When you & Matt were kickn' it, what world economy did you praise? Did your knowledge of the Russion language endear you to its political system, or the opposite? I think that my good friend in high school, Craig (I won't give his last name as I have not talked to him about it) had a better grasp of the conversion of labor capital into mercantile capital than either Marx or Engels. Craig raised cows, still does.
StephenDare!, while Marx is an interesting guy, his view of "capitalism" and more importantly his answer to it (The Communist Manifesto) has proven to be wrong. It doesn't work. His theories, while interesting to debate in coffee houses, don't translate into the real world. Again, do you also think that every person should be "provided" a job, house, medical care, transportation, and income by the government?Where is this being done successfully? Do you support the "second bill of rights" as espoused by FDR?
I have seen "Roger & Me" and "Bowling". Both sucked. I have seen excerpts from others, and I am not impressed. I understand what he is trying to do but I don't agree with his premise, or his alternatives.
Well, I got into this because you argued that MM's films were not participating in capitalism because he financed them himself. I showed that not only did he not finance the movies, but that they were capitalist ventures. Thus the argument that we are in now. It is not your fault that Marx bores me. It is Marx's fault. You brought up Marx and all that the reference entails. I can only suppose because of your familiararity and affinity for it. So I have presented the "facts". I am embarrassed for you when you seem to think that you have such an "education" in this area and you don't know what "capitalism" means. You see StephenDare!, one of the values of a "real" education is that it is (usually) well rounded. When you just feed your own beliefs on the internet you just build on a skewed picture. It is almost as funny as you lecturing me on the "real" world.
What economic system do you advocate? Do you support the "second bill of rights" that MM espouses in the film?
I have stated several times in this thread, the second bill of rights that FDR proposed, and being put forth by MM in his movie. I am speaking of any or all of them, do you support them? I know that you favor a national healthcare system, so I'll discount that. Here, let me help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
As for capitalism, use your definition or mine, they say the same thing. Whether MM self financed or not, the movies are a capitalists venture.
It is interesting to note that you will not identify the economic system that you would prefer to capitalism. What country has a better system and why? All of those words and no answers...
That's what I thought. Wow.
Wow. Five pages of comments and only one person actually saw the movie?
I saw it last night and thought it was very good and entertaining. It really isn't anti-capitalist. It's more anti-chain-of-events-that-occurred-in-the-name-of-capitalism. If you want to label it "anti" something, I'd say anti-greed.
As with most things, I don't expect it to be popular in Jacksonville though.
The five pages of comments are mostly about how the movie was financed and what "capitalism" is. I don't expect it to popular in most places.
Documentary?
It is awesome. Because I won't give Moore my money. Because Moore and I have a completely different vision of America. Despite agreeing on the bailouts. Moore does not tell the truth. If you can't see that then you are not being honest with yourself. There are several cool, talented people that I will not associate with or send my money to because of the values they hold, practice, and/or espouse. Judgement.
i think it was a good movie, entertaining but unfortunately sad as well.