The group of citizens charged with restructuring our city government is in the process of formulating those changes at present.
Should the JTA be split into a road building authority and an actuall mass transit/light rail commission be spun off as a separate entity?
Quote from: stephendare on September 03, 2009, 12:23:05 PM
Should the JTA be split into a road building authority and an actuall mass transit/light rail commission be spun off as a separate entity?
YES
Quote from: stephendare on September 03, 2009, 12:44:09 PM
Wonder if a Jacksonville Mass Transit Authority headed by Ocklawaha and STJR could get some damn rail laid?
Well, Ock is more into existing rail ;)
I agree, split them up.
It is a worthless question....the Charter Commission looks at how Ducal County government is set up....JTA was created by the Florida Legislature!
(http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog-img/nwtc-front-pic.png)
Let's just call this rendering, Boulevard at Shand's "S" line station, (where the new trail crosses the road).
Quote from: stephendare on September 03, 2009, 12:44:09 PM
Wonder if a Jacksonville Mass Transit Authority headed by Ocklawaha and STJR could get some damn rail laid?
Sure we could, if we didn't kill eachother first! LOLQuote from: stephendare on September 03, 2009, 01:22:03 PM
Actually he's into not wasting existing resources.
I can tell you Ock would love to lay new rail where needed! As it happens, because so much of our growth centered around the rail lines, they old routes remain the most effective way to reach the population centers that they serve.
That's a fact Stephen, outside of streetcar, we need to focus on what we already have. Even streetcar is just rebuilding what we trashed back when the city was duped by NATIONAL CITY LINES, at the start of what is known as the "National Streetcar Holocaust." Other then that we have the "S" line and port as well as SEHSR to be thinking about. OCKLAWAHA
SOUTHEAST HIGH SPEED RAIL, it is an extension of the Northeast Corridor to Jacksonville, Charlotte, and Atlanta, plus Atlanta to Jacksonville. If they lay new track between Savannah and Jacksonville, rather then just upgrade the CSX, then I suspect they will reopen the old "S" line from Kingsland GA, just north of Yulee, all the way to Savannah. This is the same "S" line we have been pushing for several years, if the project can be joined to the Federal project, we'd have a hell of a commuter line on the Northside!
http://www.sehsr.org/
or my last post on this project...
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5980.msg94838.html#msg94838
OCKLAWAHA
Split 'em up. J.H(ighway).A. and J.T(ransit).A. We've already got a separate headache called "JEA." :D
I agree.......they need to be split up and soon! JTA is a waste as is....new bus schedules my left ham hock! I wonder just what consulting agency was used to set initial routes up and how much they were paid? Anyone know something about that?
Stephen,
You may wish to re-read the state statute that governs JTA
History isn't that important....the current statutes, as written, are law....and what do you think JTA would do if the City tried to get the Legislature to change their mission?
Split them up, but I don't want STJR in charge of my rail. The first thing he'll do is take an ax to the Skyway.
Quote from: stephendare on September 04, 2009, 12:14:16 PM
TUFSU? Have you had your coffee yet?
Law is also based on precedent. It most certainly can be done, and more importantly it can be done at the Charter Review Process.
Did you know that Jacksonville also has the only Consolidated Govt as well?
50 years of not being able to implement a mass transit system is not working out as it stands.
TUFSU1 and STEPHENDARE: Wouldn't a change from JTA to a regional transportation authority be just as big a legal leap then to make that leap in two distinct parts? North Florida Highway Authority, and North Florida Transit Authority? OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on September 04, 2009, 01:22:02 PM
Thats exactly right, Ock. In fact it would be a bigger change because its multi county instead of just Duval.
sure but that's already underway.
All I'm saying is...put your energy into something that has a chance of success....taking transit out o JTA isn't very realistic right now.
ok...I'll check back with you eartly next year (when the Regional Authority study is due back to the Legislature) and see how this split idea is going.
(http://weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/abandoned-bus-line-california.jpg)
The future of Diesel fueled bus transit?
(http://www.planetizen.com/files/u5174/DSCN3779.jpg)
Remember folks dedicated BRT guideways will offer improved stations...
Seems to me this would be a great time to introduce this to the media, expose the facts that JTA is the only major "Authority" in the whole NATION that tries to do both Transit and Highway. Since the Streetcar Holocaust of 1930-60, I would say Highways and Fixed Route City Transit are barely on speaking terms today. One only has to visit ANY pro monorail, streetcar, BRT, city bus, or LRT site to see there is a full scale war on for the attention and limited dollars of the public transit world. With that type of internal conflict, is it any wonder the largest Highway builder the city or region has ever seen, fell in love with BRT, as soon as the Bush inspired "think tanks" cooked up the new battle cry against Rail?
Stephendare, as a true Southron, most of the MJ team think like true Southerners. It is recorded in history that NO SOUTHERNER has ever backed down in a fight by first considering the odds. Braveheart Anyone? Quote(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Rg486QMkD6g/SoL3IIpsEDI/AAAAAAAAp60/igQ_lu9gxO8/s400/busway.jpg)
I know this looks like some sterile Photoshop fantasy, but this madness is actually happening in Cambridgeshire. This is the guided busway that some loonies have been building - on a railway route would you believe - between Cambridge and St Ives.
In the words of one of our members - I have been meaning to go over and photo some of this meaningless busway before it opens, just as a warning to other railway re-opening schemes just what can be imposed by government if you're not careful.
I doubt very much that this would ever happen through the Mendip Hills, but it just goes to show that rather than accept the fact that they were wrong to close these lines in the first place, they will re-open them as busways instead, as it can mean less loss of face.
They won't last into the future, as its really a poor mans' railway, albeit at twice the cost!
I have to pinch myself looking at these pictures. What the hell are they thinking of??
This line has a vigorous campaigning group, seeking to have the (previously intact) route restored, electrified and ready to carry hundreds of thousands of former car users into Cambridge and on to the network. Instead they get this total joke, an oil-using monstrosity that peters out on the outskirts of Cambridge to just push more (inevitably almost empty) dirty buses to fight their way through the congestion to the sanity of Cambridge railway station - at more than twice the price of a restored railway (three times the cost of a modern tramway or light railway)!
So what poor St Ives gets is a time-limited joke, more oil guzzling buses that aren't even flexible. No solution to future freight transport. A one-off system with no ability to expand, a soon to be overgrown 'showpiece' that is unlikely to tempt anyone out of their cars once the novelty's worn off. It's already looking tatty, even before it's opened. It'll be no use in the snow. All it will do is encourage the citizens of St Ives to call for the restoration of their railway ASAP. What a total joke.
Mick Knox cleverly likens it to the Haytor Granite Tramway (below).
(http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/22/41/224171_035acd3d.jpg)
WELCOME TO JTA WITHOUT A JHAOCKLAWAHA
Take a look at the minutes from the July 3oth meeting...it includes a presentation from JTA
http://www.coj.net/City+Council/CharterRevisionCommission
...and?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 03, 2009, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 03, 2009, 12:44:09 PM
Wonder if a Jacksonville Mass Transit Authority headed by Ocklawaha and STJR could get some damn rail laid?
Sure we could, if we didn't kill eachother first! LOL
Ock, where is that "Suthern" gentleman in you? You ain't being too kindly thar.
We would work great together as we both support rail. We would just have to agree to shelve the source of our differences, the $ky-high-way. You know, just let it die from benign neglect - kind of like what is already happening. No need to mess with a good thing, now, is there?
Splitting JTA is a mixed blessing because it will create another expensive bureaucracy. But, it would dissolve an apparent conflict between roads and mass transit within the agency and put the conflict out in the open where the public could weigh in more.
While we are at it, how about a Jacksonville Parks Authority (JPARKA?) ? This would focus attention on another "lost in the current politics" morass issue.
Trust me stjr, I'm much more of a joker then a killer. So I was speaking completely figuratively...in other words SMILE!
BTW, The word is "Southron", it really is in most dictionary's, and is an old South adaptation of "Southern," usually to identify an individuals birthright, as in "He is a true Southron..."
I would love to get together with you downtown, and on a day the Skyway is running, crawl all over it with the permission of JTA. I'm pretty sure Mike Miller, or the Skyway Daddy, Steve Arrington, could allot us some time to handle the really stiff questions. Neither one of us would have built the thing in the first place, I'm just trying to find a simple, IE: SHORT, expansion that would add greater numbers. I'm pretty sure considering the spanking we would get from the FTA, any thought of shutdown or teardown is off the table. So who better to find a way to make it work, then the two guys that would have made an artificial reef out of the entire project in exchange for LRT! Talk about a hard core study.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on September 05, 2009, 08:51:47 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 05, 2009, 08:48:28 PM
Trust me stjr, I'm much more of a joker then a killer. So I was speaking completely figuratively...in other words SMILE!
BTW, The word is "Southron", it really is in most dictionary's, and is an old South adaptation of "Southern," usually to identify an individuals birthright, as in "He is a true Southron..."
I would love to get together with you downtown, and on a day the Skyway is running, crawl all over it with the permission of JTA. I'm pretty sure Mike Miller, or the Skyway Daddy, Steve Arrington, could allot us some time to handle the really stiff questions. Neither one of us would have built the thing in the first place, I'm just trying to find a simple, IE: SHORT, expansion that would add greater numbers. I'm pretty sure considering the spanking we would get from the FTA, any thought of shutdown or teardown is off the table. So who better to find a way to make it work, then the two guys that would have made an artificial reef out of the entire project in exchange for LRT! Talk about a hard core study.
OCKLAWAHA
If this happens, count me in.
I can't imagine a better use of time than to spend it with you two.
Ock, don't worry, I was taking you "tongue in cheek" as I hope you took me. As to the offer to match up with you and Steve, well one day maybe. But, for now, we'll just have to continue to party on these boards.
I like your statement on LRT. That is exactly my point about why I oppose the $ky-high-way. I want LRT and other rail transit on top of the heap, head and shoulders above anything else. No distractions. No competition for limited financial or political capital. Go for the gold, not the bronze! The $ky-high-way becomes our sacrifice on the alter of the "transit gods".
It would be nice to spit (oops! meant to say "split") JTA back to the state! JTA seems to have a somewhat limited viewpoint as in bus....bus....bus! Maybe the skyway has a future but not in its current form. There is still limited access and it still cost's 7 Million dollars to operate for a year. I still wonder if we could get more for our money?
^if it were better integrated you would get more for your money. Any way, I wonder what caused the annual costs to go up to $7 million a year? A year or two ago, that number was closer to $4 million. Was this a misquote in the paper? Its obvious that service has gotten worse, so if not, what caused the number to almost double?
lake.....that 7 Million figure came from a post here and from what I remember concerning the JTA Budget that figure was verified at the same amount? There was also a post from the Council meeting that had that figure in it so that is the figure that I am using!
The post from here came from me, which came from a quote in the TU. However, I never looked to see if the TU quote was correct. With that said, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
lake......that figure came also from a link posted on the JOL Forum regarding City Budget! I tried to go back and find it and had no success but it is a viable figure from what I remember.
Most likely both figures came from the same TU article.
I know for sure one did..........the other was from a blurb and I can not remember the link site for the life of me! I am going to try and verify that number though and when I get the info will post that line here!
I'm also going to pull up some information on recently constructed light rail and streetcar lines. I think it will be interesting to see how their capital costs, lengths and annual O&M costs compare the skyway.
Lake ........managed to find that TU article and the 7 Million figure would in it! Have you come up with anything else regarding that?
Substitute "was" in place of "would"...........7 Million was operating cost of $kyway. Jacksonville Observer had breakdown of JTA Budget which was passed by the City Council, also included was JEA Budget and I still say there is waste to be trimmed from them. I hope they do not hand out Bonus's for doing their job!