I was at the Avenues Mall today, noticed that the big spot vacated by Victoria's Secret on the bottom floor has been broken up and a small clothing store opened in the middle. I also noticed that Abercrombie and Fitch was closed; the sign was down, and the facade was getting repainted. Did they shut down or are they renovating? I was just wondering if anyone knew what was going on? ???
More than just one store has left.............Mall management is trying to reduce floor space to make room for more stores in the same space that had one store there! Mall occupancy is slowly but surely being reduced by the economic state!
The Circle of Life
In other news: Town Center is expanding.
AF is probley remodeling
I wouldn't think there would be massive flight out of the Avenues just yet.
I wonder just how long malls are going to last. The Jax Landing looks like a ghost town. I can't even remember the last time I actually shopped in a mall other than the Town Center which isn't really a mall type mall (if that makes sense).
Quote from: wwanderlust on September 03, 2009, 09:49:32 AM
Town Center's great...as long as it's not hot, cold, or raining.
Or you aren't going to drive there (there are no other options) as parking is a nightmare.
In 10-20 years, the town center will be empty and filing for bankruptcy. That place is a joke, they have valet parking, yet, a target and a dollar store in that plaza - seems very silly and people will figure it out.
Regency killed downtown, SJTC is killing regency (and hurting avenues), what's next? Perhaps instead of plowing and pouring (concrete) we could re-use what we have - downtown, regency, etc.
Can I change my username to I_H8_SJTC ? :D
Just to clarify, the Target and associated stores by it are not part of the "true" SJTC. Hmm, 10-20 years, that seems very bold, and IMO, stupid. The many of the stores in the actual Town Center part are not found anywhere else in the region. You'd have to go to Orlando, Tampa, Miami, etc to see those stores. Granted, landing a high-end dept. store or two will definetly tie up the image it is trying to play. SJTC isn't going anywhere, anytime soon as no other place in the metro area could support the kind of stores that are already there anyways. All this so-called talk of competing developments planned in St. Johns County is just that, talk, as there is nowhere near the amount residents to justify that type of development.
"Regency killed downtown, SJTC is killing regency (and hurting avenues), what's next? Perhaps instead of plowing and pouring (concrete) we could re-use what we have - downtown, regency, etc."
With you on re-use. The decline of the old Arlington neighborhoods over the last 15-20 years eventually led to the Recency mall "death". Avenues should be ok for awhile. Never been a fan of SJTC and I see your point on sprawl.
Its not SJTC that is killing Regency, its River City Marketplace. Both of those centers pull from the same demographic pool.
Quote from: coredumped on September 11, 2009, 08:46:11 PMRegency killed downtown, SJTC is killing regency (and hurting avenues), what's next? Perhaps instead of plowing and pouring (concrete) we could re-use what we have - downtown, regency, etc.
I am 100% with you on this one. Jacksonville, however, seems to have a thing for starting up something new, promoting it as the "next big thing," then leaving it to rot once the newness wears off. I don't blame just the developers... I mean, I've got relatives who quit going to Regency back when the Avenues opened because they didn't like the clientele (i.e. the people who didn't look like them)... And once SJTC opened, they repeated the cycle... once the next new mall or whatever opens, SJTC will be "old hat" and will be taken over by discount chains and dollar stores...
Mall are just a microcosm of our life...........I don't know of any Mall right now that is at 100% occupancy and until the economy picks up probably won't!
Quote from: reednavy on September 11, 2009, 09:16:05 PM
Just to clarify, the Target and associated stores by it are not part of the "true" SJTC. Hmm, 10-20 years, that seems very bold, and IMO, stupid.
thanks
Quote from: coredumped on September 12, 2009, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: reednavy on September 11, 2009, 09:16:05 PM
Just to clarify, the Target and associated stores by it are not part of the "true" SJTC. Hmm, 10-20 years, that seems very bold, and IMO, stupid.
thanks
actually it is part of the SJTC... check the map... one side is called the Community Center (dollar tree to petsmart etc) and the rest are in the Lifestyle Center.
I know that it is all SJTC, but that section is not the part I call the Town Center.
What's new soon becomes old in our local retail scene. The novelty eventually wore off for the first wave of shopping malls - Roosevelt, Normandy, Philips and Gateway. This, of course, is not unique to our area. There are web sites that are dedicated to 'dead' shopping centers and malls.
As for Regency, I believe that it has been hurting because of two competitors. Regency siphoned customers away from Gateway. Now that River City Marketplace offers shopping choices to the Northside, Regency is losing out. And, of course, many Southside residents are closer to St. Johns Town Center and can now avoid the traffic hassle of getting to Regency.
As for the Avenues, I can understand how it is in dire straits. We would like to believe that everyone on the Southside has a money tree in their backyard but we overestimate this area's buying power. Remember the defunct shopping center that is now the FSCJ Deerwood Campus?
Of the older regional shopping malls, the Orange Park Mall seems to be holding its own. Going on 35 years old, this mall still has quite a niche in and around Westside Jacksonville, Orange Park, Middleburg and those who still fear the Buckman Bridge.
The Avenues is far from being in dire straits. A few stores closing are typical of a recession of this magnitude, even the Town Center hasn't been spared.
Quote from: nicktooch on October 01, 2009, 08:25:28 PM
Quote from: coredumped on September 12, 2009, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: reednavy on September 11, 2009, 09:16:05 PM
Just to clarify, the Target and associated stores by it are not part of the "true" SJTC. Hmm, 10-20 years, that seems very bold, and IMO, stupid.
thanks
actually it is part of the SJTC... check the map... one side is called the Community Center (dollar tree to petsmart etc) and the rest are in the Lifestyle Center.
There isn't a Dollar Tree.
Quoteactually it is part of the SJTC... check the map... one side is called the Community Center (dollar tree to petsmart etc) and the rest are in the Lifestyle Center.
QuoteThere isn't a Dollar Tree.
Oh yes there is!
Did it take the place of that wicker store on the end closest to the AT&T store? That's the only place it could be.
Interesting. I guess I hadn't been there in a while.
Doctor K, that's exactly where the Dollar Tree is.
abercrombie is closed for good at the avenues, per a now former employee... SJTC location makes way more $ than it costs to even run avenues location apparently
Quote from: nicktooch on October 24, 2009, 04:27:40 PM
abercrombie is closed for good at the avenues, per a now former employee... SJTC location makes way more $ than it costs to even run avenues location apparently
Really not suprising.
Jacksonville can't even support more than one A&F location??? we are no better than Gainesville and Tallahassee. Sad!
Quote from: fsujax on October 24, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
Jacksonville can't even support more than one A&F location??? we are no better than Gainesville and Tallahassee. Sad!
They're prices keep going up, and the SJTC is a better destination with more stores on par with it and the restaurants.
Plus, A&F isn't doing as well as it used to and other stores elsewhere have closed.
Plus, Abercrombie & Fitch makes ugly, overpriced clothes.
Thought game: What do you think would happen to the building if all stores abandoned it? If it was just a very complicated box? Would the community be able to step in and feel ownership of the space (akin to the mall that is now a community college campus), or would it be abandoned?
Quote from: fsujax on October 24, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
Jacksonville can't even support more than one A&F location??? we are no better than Gainesville and Tallahassee. Sad!
Sarcasm I hope.
Quote from: copperfiend on October 24, 2009, 10:08:43 PM
Quote from: fsujax on October 24, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
Jacksonville can't even support more than one A&F location??? we are no better than Gainesville and Tallahassee. Sad!
Sarcasm I hope.
You and me both.
Wow...Jacksonville is nothing except a beach town. We have 8 Abercrombies in Atlanta alone. The only thing good about jacksonville is there is no traffic and small freeways, its nice to get out of the city and go there to the beach though.
Whats the population in ATL and why would Jax need that many stores?
Wow .. 8 Abercrombies...verily a sign that Atlanta is a crossroads of trans-global cultural interaction. I hear that February's Milan Fashion week is being relocated to north georgia. New York Shangai Dubai Singapore.... Atlanta??!!! Perhaps you are ignorant to how the rest of the world perceives Atlanta; or would perceive it, were they aware of its existence.
Quote from: ATL4SHO on October 24, 2009, 10:19:42 PM
Wow...Jacksonville is nothing except a beach town. We have 8 Abercrombies in Atlanta alone. The only thing good about jacksonville is there is no traffic and small freeways, its nice to get out of the city and go there to the beach though.
Oh wow! 8 Abercrombies!!!! You guys are rockin up there in Hotlanta.
Quote from: jaxtrader on October 24, 2009, 10:32:36 PM
Wow .. 8 Abercrombies...verily a sign that Atlanta is a crossroads of trans-global cultural interaction. I hear that February's Milan Fashion week is being relocated to north georgia. New York Shangai Dubai Singapore.... Atlanta??!!! Perhaps you are ignorant to how the rest of the world perceives Atlanta; or would perceive it, were they aware of its existence.
wow...ok. I dont really care what u think i love ATL, better than jacksonville. It is an International City...what is Jacksonville? yall have like 500,000 and atlanta is like 6 million...think that says something?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 24, 2009, 10:30:28 PM
Whats the population in ATL and why would Jax need that many stores?
probably dont, pop is around 6 million. we have a bunch of pretentious people up here! lol
Quote from: ATL4SHO on October 24, 2009, 10:53:01 PM
wow...ok. I dont really care what u think i love ATL, better than jacksonville. It is an International City...what is Jacksonville? yall have like 500,000 and atlanta is like 6 million...think that says something?
Out of curiosity, why are you here?
Rockin the AF swaggar?
I lived in ATL for 8 yrs,, its not all that. You spend most of your time in traffic and in more traffic it can be a nightmare. Comparing Jax to ATL doesnt make sense now that says something.
Quote from: ATL4SHO on October 24, 2009, 10:53:01 PM
wow...ok. I dont really care what u think i love ATL, better than jacksonville. It is an International City...what is Jacksonville? yall have like 500,000 and atlanta is like 6 million...think that says something?
Ok, we have 1.3 million people, spread over a 5 county metro area, with more than half living within the principal city.
Atlanta has 5.5 million people, spread over a 20 county metro area. Only about 10 % of the population lives within the principal city. Those statistics themselves say quite a bit.
How many A&F stores doesn't show in any way, shape, or form of how cosmopolitan Atlanta and vicinity are. Yes, Atlanta is a int'l city of business, and nothing more. Atlanta has yet to move up in the world of premiere cities, and is far away from that.
Of the top 10 metros in the U.S., it is the largest that has no true mass transit to the suburbs, and having MARTA going only to De Kalb County doesn't mean anything.
Anyways, before this goes too far OT, you need to start another topic about the ATL vs JAX crap, and not starting a mini- flame war in this thread.
Hmmm I think MARTA does go beyond Dekab county anyway this thread is not about ATL vs Jax.
Can anyone think of cultural experiences outside of retail?
Quote from: kellypope on October 25, 2009, 01:02:48 AM
Can anyone think of cultural experiences outside of retail?
Museums, premiere dining and retail (A&F is not), extensive mass transit system are just a few that come to mind.
Anyways, back to the Avenues Mall.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 24, 2009, 11:06:09 PM
I lived in ATL for 8 yrs,, its not all that. You spend most of your time in traffic and in more traffic it can be a nightmare. Comparing Jax to ATL doesnt make sense now that says something.
ok, yea traffic sucks, but other than that I love it, i guess its a city for young people.
Quote
Wow ur a freak...who cares!! We were just drinking and bored but marta does go into fulton and clayton, get ur shit straight. And i never said it did matter about the abercrombie stores? and ATL is very much a city with actual buildings and shit not like 3 buildings downtown, have ya ever been?
A couple of things I am thinking:
1. Let's keep the forum a bit on the classy side and refrain from using profanities unless it is absolutely necessary to arrive at your point.
2. Let's get off the Atlanta subject. It has nothing to do with the Avenues mall. Furthermore, lets get of the A&F subject as well. It's nothing more than a teenage/ college clothing store. Would anyone be making a such a fuss if Baby Gap were to close?
I'll tell you this, you've been reported to the moderators to get you off here. You're nothing but a troll and making vague city vs city comments.
First of all the number of A&F stores really has nothing to do with a city's quality of life. The store lacks any sense of style. Second of all Atlanta has only ONE A&F store inside the beltway. The rest of the stores are outside the perimeter in the burbs. Let's talk about something more productive!
I bet there is no "MetroAtlanta"! That's why Atlantans have to post here. One day Atlanta might grow up enough to have their own version. :D
The Avenues was kickin' tonight....Caring Chefs benefit for the Children's Home Society...over 40 restaurants!
Caring Chefs is a great event, glad to see the Avenues has it still!
I noticed that Belk consolidated back into one store. As far as customer convenience, I never really understood why they expanded into an empty store vs. expanding their existing one. In any event, hopefully that anchor spot won't stay empty for too long. Maybe Simon can break it up even into something similar to what they did with the closed Lord & Taylor store at the Florida Mall in Orlando. They turned the former L&T store into 3 separate stores: H&M, Zara, and Forever 21.
Hmm, that really opens up the chance for a retailer to enter the market, i.e. Macy's, Saks, or Nordstrom.
I hope that Simon Malls recruits this heavily because overall it is still a great property with a good track record.
Belk expanded into that space as a way of making sure competitor stores (like Macy's) didn't move in.
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 10, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
Belk expanded into that space as a way of making sure competitor stores (like Macy's) didn't move in.
Well if there is an empty anchor store location, it'll be hard for Belk to swing much at retailers that aren't here yet.
Of coruse it'd be nice for Simon to update the mall's directory map.
http://www.simon.com/mall/malldirectory.aspx?id=124
It's no Macy's...
Forever XXI coming to Avenues Mall
To occupy anchor space vacated by Belk
Posted: April 12, 2010 - 12:41pm
By Kevin Turner
Women's clothing store Forever XXI is coming to the Avenues Mall during the latter part of 2010, mall owner Simon Property Group announced today.
Forever XXI will occupy the 116,298-square-foot spot most recently occopied by Belk and previously by Parisian. It will feature women’s and men’s clothing and accessories.
Another new store, Windsor, has opened, the company announced. The apparel and accessory company is located in a 3,100-square-foot space next to the Disney Store.
Also coming to the mall is an updated look to Bath and Body Works store, Simon noted.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-04-12/story/forever-xxi-coming-avenues-mall
@#$!, that little bird! :-\
Hmm. Must be a blow to Avenues Walk. Other than Walmart, that was supposed to be their main anchor.
Let's approve the mobility plan and see what that does for the Avenues Walk.
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 12, 2010, 02:31:17 PM
Let's approve the mobility plan and see what that does for the Avenues Walk.
the project is already approved and mitigated for....so unless you are implying that it will have an edge over new projects that will have to pay (note that most reuses of existing buildings also don't have to pay), approval of the mobility plan will mean little to nothing.
Unless you are a prospective tenant who may see it as an advantage to have transit on site.
Wow, really? The whole thing for that one store?
QuoteThe Forever 21 Retail Inc. owns and operates numerous stores in different formats. The stores are:
Forever 21: main and original store carrying women's clothing, accessories, swimwear, lingerie, and shoes.
Forever XXI: flagship mega store carrying merchandise from all store formats.
Heritage1981: offshoot format store carrying vintage clothing, accessories, and shoes.
Gadzooks21: women merchandise in smaller stores from the Gadzooks aquistion.
Reference: women merchandise in different store format from Reference acquisition.
For Love21: Accessory store.
Twelve by Twelve: Upscale Los Angeles inspired clothing.
Faith21: clothing for plus-size women
Love21: contemporary line for women
Forever 21 Twist: An exclusive limited edition collection, launching a new theme every 4-6 weeks. Collections so far include Cirque 21, Twist of Punk, Ballet- Tutu Cute, Disco 21, Tres Paris, Rocker Babes and twisted wonderland.
HTG81: Heritage 1981, for kids with vintage tees, accessories and shoes.
Men21: Formely named Heritage1981 Mens, is the mens portion with vintage tees, cardigans, pants, and sweatersfor affordable prices
XXI Forever is the name for the newest stores throughout the country. Latest stores openings are XXI Forever, Forever21 still has openings of the original store, but as a big box, including the man's heritage line. Not only XXI stores carry the man's clothing line, but also the new store openings of Forever21 do as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forever_21
I was out at The Avenues yesterday and learned that Potterybarn will be closing it's Avenues location on 1/15. This is unfortunate, I preferred the Avenues location to the one at the Town Center.... Another major tenant leaving The Avenues....
I went to the Avenues for Christmas and not the Town Center. I prefer going to the Avenues, business seemed to look ok when I was there. Sorry to hear about the PB closing there, WS will be next!
The H&M website has posted a store manager position for Jacksonville... A friend of mine who works at the Avenues told me that they're going into the space previously vacated by Potterybarn as well as the former Children's Place spot upstairs for a 2-level store. Finally, something good NOT going to the Town Center...
yay more hipsters, but now at old navy pricepoints
Went to the Avenues Saturday at about 6:30 pm tried to park near Dillards and was surprised that I had to circle the lot a few times to find a spot. My wife works near there said that the Mall has been pretty busy.
it's easier to get in and out of Avenues than the town center, i find it funny the traffic congestion at the sjtc may one day snuff the life out of it.
^The builders of the Avenues realized that people go to the mall to hit several shops at once. You don't have to fight for parking, go into one store, go back to your car, and then fight for parking at a second store, as you do if you (for instance) wanted to go to both Game Stop and Dick's at the SJTC. I dislike malls in general, but the SJTC is one that's particularly poorly designed.
Quotebut the SJTC is one that's particularly poorly designed.
You really HAVE to move only by automobile at the Town Center. You literally cannot walk from BlackFinn to CompUSA as there are no sidewalks that connect the two sides of the development together. Now, with all the curbouts built along Gate Parkway with the opening of the Shell station... traffic along Gate is going to be even more of a nightmare. JTA had talked about offering a trolley service in this area serving the Town Center and the major employers of the area... nothing materialized there as Blue Cross wound up partnering with the city to install a traffic signal instead.
The Town Center offers retailers great bang for the buck(the avg revenue per square foot is quite impressive) but it is woefully pathetic in it's design and implementation. It's literally a microcosm of Jacksonville's problems as a fiscally functioning city.
Quoteit's easier to get in and out of Avenues than the town center, i find it funny the traffic congestion at the sjtc may one day snuff the life out of it.
"Nobody shops at the Town Center anymore. It's too crowded." --Yogi Berra. 8)
Quote from: fsujax on January 18, 2012, 02:50:32 PM
it's easier to get in and out of Avenues than the town center, i find it funny the traffic congestion at the sjtc may one day snuff the life out of it.
I took our neighbor up to TC today as she can't drive... I don't know, something about too much Bolivian Aguardiente, a fender bender, and the JSO. LOL! I agree, for my money, the TC will look like the local Kmart's in a fairly short span of time.
We live in FLORIDA for Gods sake! Over half of the year is spent in 100% humidity and nearly 100 degree temperatures, just the kind of weather that makes one want to walk from Blackfin to Compusa, Target or Publix. If this were downtown it would be much more livable as the tall buildings cast a lot of shade and tend to route the wind down the streets.
Transit service is typical, and frankly the mall should have installed something like a PCT or REAL TROLLEY. BTW, where on earth are the UNF buses? Why not co-op with JTA and serve the Gate Parkway apartment complexes and tie the TC into the school? We'd all benefit.
When I go to the avenues, I'm indoors and its always comfortable. I have but one argument with the Avenues, Regency Square etc:
WHY IN THE HELL ARE THE BUS PASSENGERS FORCED OFF TO SOME DARK CORNER OF THE PARKING LOT? This is counterproductive, bad for transit and the mall, not to mention potentially dangerous.
Can we please get over the whole Avenues vs SJTC talk, ever??? Gawd, that is so 2005! Why does Avenue's related info always have to be tagged with the SJTC? Parking headaches, traffic congestion, blah, blah, blah, ad nausem. I get it, anything progressive to a suburban mall = a typical 'meh' response from alotta urban freaks; It wouldn't be so 'meh' if it was in DT Jax now would it???
I think many of us would have the same problem with a downtown mall if it were so poorly designed as the SJTC.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 19, 2012, 07:18:10 AM
I think many of us would have the same problem with a downtown mall if it were so poorly designed as the SJTC.
Actually I think you're making a bigger point than you realize and it's all scale. There are some words I read on this site that resonate with this project, most often from one, Lakelander, walkability & connectivity.
If someone would take (it might already be in the MJ archives) an overlay of the SJTC and place it over DT, I bet most would be amazed at the area that it encompasses. And Tacachale, I think you're 100% correct, because the same people who rave about SJTC and how awesome it is and how much there is to do; would be the same people bitching non-stop about the set-up if it were downtown even if it were in a more concentrated area.
QuoteI get it, anything progressive to a suburban mall = a typical 'meh' response from alotta urban freaks;
No, not at all.
I don't have a problem with the lifestyle center concept one bit(they sure do fund my paycheck)... but once you see what a good one looks like... versus what the Town Center is, you will see how pathetically bad it is layed out. Traffic congestion in the area is a large problem now, and unfortunately b/c bad decisions kept being made-you simply aren't going to be able to build your way out of it b/c the damage is already done.
I am far from the person that is negative about this town and whines and complains about how anywhere, USA is better than Jax... but when you allow something to be built to the least common denominator, and allow exception after exception to be given in the design and function of something like the Town Center... well, you reap what you sow. I for one am all about the Southside becoming much more dense. But to have a positive fiscal impact on the city, the kind of fiscally responsible density that is needed in the area is not happening.
Seriously, how the flip can a mall not allow you to walk from one side to the other? Try walking from Best Buy to Dillards. You won't even find a sidewalk that allows you to cross the street.. nor a sidewalk that allows you to navigate the two sprawling parking lots you'll cross. You will literally get run over by cars darting around the street and parking lots. Believe me, I have dodged cars many times at the Town Center. I've never played Frogger with cars at the Town Center in Reston, VA(a sprawling exurb of DC, but at least they got a lifestyle center concept correct).
Quote from: fieldafm on January 19, 2012, 08:43:11 AM
...USA is better than Jax... but when you allow something to be built to the least common denominator...
How the heck can you compare a country to a city to support your argument?
-Josh
Quote from: wsansewjs on January 19, 2012, 09:01:15 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on January 19, 2012, 08:43:11 AM
...USA is better than Jax... but when you allow something to be built to the least common denominator...
How the heck can you compare a country to a city to support your argument?
-Josh
"anywhere, USA" = fill in "anywhere" with any city in the USA.
As for the SJTC. I agree with the others that it is horribly laid out. Trying to get into the town center by exiting JTB onto Gate Parkway makes me want drink battery acid. That area is only going to get worse too. That's one of the reasons I don't really go there. When I do, I come in off of 9A. The Avenues on the other hand, no problems getting in or out.
Quote from: JUGrad on January 18, 2012, 12:06:37 PM
The H&M website has posted a store manager position for Jacksonville... A friend of mine who works at the Avenues told me that they're going into the space previously vacated by Potterybarn as well as the former Children's Place spot upstairs for a 2-level store. Finally, something good NOT going to the Town Center...
So.... it's kinda cool that we're going to be getting an H&M here huh...
Quote from: fieldafm on January 19, 2012, 08:43:11 AM
QuoteI get it, anything progressive to a suburban mall = a typical 'meh' response from alotta urban freaks;
Seriously, how the flip can a mall not allow you to walk from one side to the other? Try walking from Best Buy to Dillards. You won't even find a sidewalk that allows you to cross the street.. nor a sidewalk that allows you to navigate the two sprawling parking lots you'll cross.
Not to split hairs too finely here, but technically we're dealing with two separate (granted, still very auto-centric) developments. Best Buy and the rest of the stores in the Markets are NOT the Town Center. Big Island Drive separates the SJTC from the Markets at Town Center.
It is absolutely possible to walk the distance of the Town Center from Ross/Famous Footwear to Capital Grille/Mitchell's Fish Market, and all points in between (including Dillards and Dicks).
Now, could they/should they have done something within SJTC to improve the time it takes to go from Ross to Mitchell's? Most certainly. A tram or trolley running the north-south spine would have been cool. As would residential above the retail, but that's been discussed and bemoaned
ad nauseum.At the end of the day kids, the SJTC is more walkable than you think.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 18, 2012, 04:02:43 PM
You don't have to fight for parking, go into one store, go back to your car, and then fight for parking at a second store, as you do if you (for instance) wanted to go to both Game Stop and Dick's at the SJTC.
Why couldn't you walk from GameStop to Dick's at the SJTC?
Quote from: Doctor_K on January 19, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Not to split hairs too finely here, but technically we're dealing with two separate (granted, still very auto-centric) developments. Best Buy and the rest of the stores in the Markets are NOT the Town Center. Big Island Drive separates the SJTC from the Markets at Town Center...
At the end of the day kids, the SJTC is more walkable than you think.
Kind of like saying that King St and 5 Points are seperate areas that fall under the Riverside umbrella, but separated by Stockton St? A quick scale off of Google maps puts me at .7 miles from Old Navy to Capital Grille and .75 miles from Pele's Pizza to Mossfire Grille. How often do people make that walk?
QuoteNot to split hairs too finely here, but technically we're dealing with two separate (granted, still very auto-centric) developments. Best Buy and the rest of the stores in the Markets are NOT the Town Center. Big Island Drive separates the SJTC from the Markets at Town Center.
With all due respect, you are splitting hairs b/c I can walk across from the Wal Mart development at Beach and Hodges to the Target development(which are two seperate entities-just like SJTC and Markets are) while still staying on a sidewalk and have adequate cross walks at every intersection, AS REQUIRED by zoning... yet I can't cross b/w the two developments at the Town Center which was GRANTED(among many) an exception to zoning in this regard. Zoning should in no way encourage COMPLETE auto-centric movement like this and to give this overall area COUNTLESS exceptions and PUDs that force complete auto-centric movement in this area and lets things be as least dense as humanly possible is completely maddening and assinine.
QuoteIt is absolutely possible to walk the distance of the Town Center from Ross/Famous Footwear to Capital Grille/Mitchell's Fish Market, and all points in between (including Dillards and Dicks).
Correct. And circulator systems like a PCT trolley bus service is definately needed. Unfortunately, JTA thought otherwise.
Has anyone noticed that SJTC is eerily similar to Gateway, which was laid out over 50 years ago. The major design difference is one half of Gateway was an enclosed shopping mall while SJTC's "walkable" corridor is open air.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Jacksonville-Historic/i-cvdcpc6/0/L/Gateway-Mall-L.jpg)
Gateway from a 1960s sanborn map.
One can easily take a long circuitous route by foot or risk getting run over in large surface parking lots.
Quote from: fieldafm on January 19, 2012, 12:19:55 PM
... yet I can't cross b/w the two developments at the Town Center which was GRANTED(among many) an exception to zoning in this regard. Zoning should in no way encourage COMPLETE auto-centric movement like this and to give this overall area COUNTLESS exceptions and PUDs that force complete auto-centric movement in this area and lets things be as least dense as humanly possible is completely maddening and assinine.
There are sidewalks and crosswalks to get you across Big Island Drive from the Best Buy & Toys R Us Markets to SJTC. You can cross at either the intersection of Big Island/Town Center Pkwy or further up Big Island near Blackfinn/Whiskey River.
The sidewalks then continue up to the restaurants cluster (Mitchell's et al) as well as into the parking lots/Town Center proper (via Town Crossing Dr). I can't recall offhand if Buckhead Branch (that runs past CompUSA) has sidewalks or not.
Quote
Correct. And circulator systems like a PCT trolley bus service is definately needed. Unfortunately, JTA thought otherwise.
On this, I agree. Or even a mini tram/streetcar. It can be completely gimmicky and cheesy. But if it's still a streetcar on rails, and it's at the SJTC (or hell, RCMP and Oakleaf for that matter), it will indirectly raise awareness for 'real rail' ridership elsewhere.
If JTA is the culprit, then we all know where and why this thing truly fell short.
So anyway...what's new at the Avenues Mall?
QuoteYou can cross at either the intersection of Big Island/Town Center Pkwy or further up Big Island near Blackfinn/Whiskey River.
No, you cannot.
The sidewalk at that crosswalk leads you to a grass area on the opposite side. There is a side walk on the opposite side (again, with no crosswalk in b/w) that then abruptly ends as the massive sprawling parking lot begins.
I won't leave work until it gets dark out... but I'll take pictures over the weekend.
Quote from: blizz01 on January 19, 2012, 12:52:13 PM
So anyway...what's new at the Avenues Mall?
JUGrad mentioned H&M a while back. I'm not much of a shopper but I do get my hair cut at a barbershop there ocassionally. Other than it seems Avenues is holding its own but it would be nice if there were a larger variety of eateries in the immediate area.
Quote from: blizz01 on January 19, 2012, 12:52:13 PM
So anyway...what's new at the Avenues Mall?
I don't know, I haven't been there for 4 years and have no immediate plans to go back.
Quote from: blizz01 on January 19, 2012, 12:52:13 PM
So anyway...what's new at the Avenues Mall?
A Moe's in the food court?
Quote from: fieldafm on January 19, 2012, 12:55:48 PM
QuoteYou can cross at either the intersection of Big Island/Town Center Pkwy or further up Big Island near Blackfinn/Whiskey River.
No, you cannot.
The sidewalk at that crosswalk leads you to a grass area on the opposite side. There is a side walk on the opposite side (again, with no crosswalk in b/w) that then abruptly ends as the massive sprawling parking lot begins.
I won't leave work until it gets dark out... but I'll take pictures over the weekend.
I think I experienced this! I took a couple friends who were new to town on a walking tour of town center. It was...quite an adventure. Definitely no logic to it whatsoever. I was also amazed at how the sidewalk didn't continue on the same side of the street, as well.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on January 18, 2012, 11:15:01 PM
Transit service is typical, and frankly the mall should have installed something like a PCT or REAL TROLLEY. BTW, where on earth are the UNF buses? Why not co-op with JTA and serve the Gate Parkway apartment complexes and tie the TC into the school? We'd all benefit.
My understanding is that UNF wanted a shuttle to go to the SJTC but the TC said no. They were afraid that students would park there and then take the shuttle to class.
And since students pay up to $200 for parking ( http://www.unf.edu/anf/auxiliaryservices/Parking/Permits_and_Rates.aspx ) I would have to agree:)
^You can pay a lot more than $200 a year for parking at UNF. 1st floor garage parking runs you $280 a year, and it gets much more expensive for semester-only passes. But most (including most students who use the shuttles to begin with) go for the general pass, which is $95. I don't see a lot of students using the Town Center for free parking, especially considering that the stop would be in a place not particularly convenient to parking. The student government is still working on the SJTC shuttle; it might happen and it might not, in light of the reason you mention, among other things.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 20, 2012, 09:31:58 AM
^You can pay a lot more than $200 a year for parking at UNF. 1st floor garage parking runs you $280 a year, and it gets much more expensive for semester-only passes. But most (including most students who use the shuttles to begin with) go for the general pass, which is $95. I don't see a lot of students using the Town Center for free parking, especially considering that the stop would be in a place not particularly convenient to parking.
I believe students can't buy a 1st floor passes, unless that's changed(?)
I meant in general. Yes, the most expensive passes are faculty and staff only - though student parking can add up to even more than that if they buy single-semester passes. But like I say, most students who use the shuttle to begin with are paying $95 dollars and are already parking in the outer lots. Parking at the town center means they'd be even farther out, have to walk to wherever the single stop was, and basically never be able to take their car on campus for the entire year.
At any rate the stop is certainly still in the works, but there are logistical and financial concerns as well as the mall's worry about students parking there.
In Gainesville, RTS runs a park-and-ride facility at the Oaks Mall.....and based on field observation the otehr day, it is definitely used by UF students
The UNF-SJTC shuttle would certainly be used by students (that's pretty much its only purpose). The Town Center's worry is that many students would just park for free at the Town Center to go to school, without shopping there. The situation isn't really comparable to Gainesville RTS; this isn't public transportation, it's a shuttle paid for by UNF that would make only 2 stops.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 20, 2012, 03:30:23 PM
The UNF-SJTC shuttle would certainly be used by students (that's pretty much its only purpose). The Town Center's worry is that many students would just park for free at the Town Center to go to school, without shopping there. The situation isn't really comparable to Gainesville RTS; this isn't public transportation, it's a shuttle paid for by UNF that would make only 2 stops.
Actually it is pretty comparable to Gainesville RTS. The Oaks Mall has granted RTS the use of a portion of their parking lot as a park-N-ride, they have plenty of parking to be able to do so. SJTC has ample parking to be able to do the same thing. As for RTS being public- you are technically correct however, UF subsidizes RTS immensely (via "student fees") so I would argue that it resembles a shuttle more the public transportation. The majority of the Gainesville RTS ridership is student usage. Technically, RTS receives the majority of its funding from UF.
^It's not really the same thing, as the Town Center doesn't want UNF students to use its parking while they go to class. As planned the shuttle would make exactly two stops - one at UNF and one in some part of the Town Center that's specifically not particularly convenient to parking - and would be entirely funded by UNF. Additionally, the parking conditions at UF and throughout Gainesville are much different than they are at UNF - UF's a much bigger school with much less parking per capita, meaning that many more students use transit both to get to school and around town.
As said earlier on this thread, the H&M clothing store will open in the spots where the former Kirklands, Pottery Barn, and The Childrens Place. Also Vans(shoes), Bare Escentuals(cosmetics), and Papaya(women's apparel) will open this year.
www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/02/06/hm-opening-first-area-store-in-the.html