I am sick to my stomach... Anyone know anything? :'(
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-08-25/story/man_killed_in_springfield_bar
QuoteA man was found shot dead at a Springfield bar Monday night, Jacksonville police said.
Police were called to the Shanty Town Pub located on Sixth Street near Main Street where they found the victim with multiple gunshot wounds just after midnight, a sergeant with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said. The victim was taken to the hospital, where he died.
Police said there were patrons in the bar at the time of the incident and they were being questioned in the investigation.
This incident seems to put a damper on all of the progress that Springfield seemed to make in recent years. I expect people in the neighborhood to pool their efforts to not allow this to retard the progress.
People read stories like this and think "same ol Sprinfield".
It's really a shame. I use to attend this bar on a regular for "Metal Mondays" and many other events.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/20543304/detail.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/20543304/detail.html)
I just posted this in the Springfield section... oops.
It's a real shame though, I had to speak up because many of the people commenting on this article on News4Jax were making assumptions about this bar and it's "thug" clientel. If only they knew it was a group of young students and working class. I know several people who go there on a regular basis, I can only pray it was none of them.
This is really disappointing to hear. The same bar where my ex-roomate was shot. More ammo for those who like to trash Springfield.
Are you a friend of Tom?
While driving to work, I heard on the radio that the victim was a guy trying to rob the place.
yes. he was my roomate for two years in Springfield.
Thanks for the update Lake. Makes me feel somewhat better about the situation. Glad to see people fighting back.
I hope this is true. I have known Tom for quite a few years... first met him at London Bridge. My wife helped get him to Brooks for rehab. He is a great guy.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 25, 2009, 08:02:12 AM
While driving to work, I heard on the radio that the victim was a guy trying to rob the place.
I really really hope this is the case... the more I start to think about it the more I get worried. I have so many friends that go here. My friends run and own Burro Bags which is right next to Chans and Shanty Town. We even thought about going there last night.
Anyone here anything about this? This is sad to hear.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-08-25/story/man_killed_in_springfield_bar
A man was found shot dead at a Springfield bar Monday night, Jacksonville police said.
Police were called to the Shanty Town Pub on Sixth Street near Main Street where they found the victim with multiple gunshot wounds just after midnight, a sergeant with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said. The victim was taken to the hospital, where he died.
Police said there were patrons in the bar at the time of the incident and they were being questioned in the investigation.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Man-shot-and-killed-in-Springfield-bar/yb5tU87gyUSAIeuvN32OkQ.cspx
QuoteMan shot and killed in Springfield bar
Last Update: 8:47 am
Print Story | Share this Story
The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office is investigating a deadly shooting at the Shanty Town Bar. JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office says a man was shot several time inside a bar.
The shooting happened around 12:30 on Tuesday morning at the Shanty Town Bar. It's located on the corner of 6th and Main Streets in Springfield.
Police say the unidentified man was taken to Shands where he was pronounced dead.
Sources tell Action News a bartender shot the man after he walked into the bar with some kind of gun. Police would not confirm this information.
Investigators say there were people inside the bar when the shooting happened. They're interviewing witnesses to find out more information.
...apparently, whoever tried to rob the place didn't get the word that Springfielders fight back. Even with all that has happened, I still view it as
Shantytown 2
Criminals 0
However, it is still someone's brother/friend/son who is dead because he made a terrible decision. For that I am sorry.
I can only hope this is the case. Now I'm trying to figure out which one of those guys is packing heat!
And why are they always on Monday night? Don't any of these criminals know that a tiny place like this has about $3 in the till on Monday???
Quotesame ole Springfield
I hate this mentality. I'm sorry someone dies unless they were a crim. No pity for those who prey in this world, be it someone who tries to rob a store or the multi-billionaire who runs a ponzi scheme.
The questions I ask is what led to this happening and how can it be stopped. Do we need more regular police patrols by Shanty? Better street lighting? Tougher prison sentences? You know, the same ole questions.
I know who it was but I will keep that under my belt as he is a friend. Justifiable? Hardly... it's hard for anyone to have reason to carry a weapon in a bar, wether you are working behind it or not. Yes, there have been other incidents but that still doesn't allow him to carry behind the bar (unless your the owner, which is not the case). Or unless the owner has given them written and signed consent to carry on the job. This unfortunately may not turn out good for him. Which sucks because in the end he was only protecting himself and his patrons.
Quote from: hooplady on August 25, 2009, 09:08:57 AM
...apparently, whoever tried to rob the place didn't get the word that Springfielders fight back. Even with all that has happened, I still view it as
Shantytown 2
Criminals 0
However, it is still someone's brother/friend/son who is dead because he made a terrible decision. For that I am sorry.
I have to agree with this. I hope MetroJaxers are correct and it was a criminal that was shot and not one of the patrons. It worries me that this keeps happening at a place that I love to frequent....but I believe that if the bar is that out to protect it's people that it is a place I will continue to return. Still, I am sorry that someone had to die, but in this day and age anyone can have a gun...I notice more and more of my friends have concealed weapon permits and carry. Heck even my little old man of a father is packin heat when he leaves the house.
So if he hadn't been armed, this would've all turned out for the better? We don't know the full scenario yet but let's just say it was an attempted robbery, at best this would've been another case of "this is why we can't have nice things in Springfield", at worst someone else would've been shot. Yeah, patrons carrying may not be the wisest thing but unless the bartender is drunk as well (could be the case but I'd say a drunk bartender isn't good for business), I don't see the problem with him protecting himself and the patrons.
And if this does turn out to be a thwarted robbery? Good for him. Dust enough of the human filth around here and they'll start getting scared of us.
sad to hear about all this... :-[
Back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, when Springfield possessed the crux of whores, drug addicts, prostitutes, drug dealers, convicts, etc., I don't think situations happened to this extent and like this. Hot time in the old town that night.
I guess Springfield still has some dirtbags either living or hanging out in the area and think they can prey on the new establishments that are trying to change Springfield's image.......NOT!!!!!!!
I'd also like to think that Springfield has changed, and it appears it has, but obviously regardless of the appearance that Springfield has changed, some things always remain the same. Maybe the demonic spirits from Springfield's past (as aforementioned) still lurks in that neighborhood.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: thekillingwax on August 25, 2009, 09:52:03 AM
So if he hadn't been armed, this would've all turned out for the better? We don't know the full scenario yet but let's just say it was an attempted robbery, at best this would've been another case of "this is why we can't have nice things in Springfield", at worst someone else would've been shot. Yeah, patrons carrying may not be the wisest thing but unless the bartender is drunk as well (could be the case but I'd say a drunk bartender isn't good for business), I don't see the problem with him protecting himself and the patrons.
And if this does turn out to be a thwarted robbery? Good for him. Dust enough of the human filth around here and they'll start getting scared of us.
No don't get me wrong I know the bar tender personally. I completely agree with him/her being able to carry but that's not for me to decide and it's a whole other discussion. It is a shame that he/she has to carry in the first place. I give him/her all the best wishes I can, as I know all he was doing was protecting himself and his patrons. As far as him/her being drunk, I can say he/she was NOT without a doubt. But still... the law is the law and it doesn't look promising for him/her which is a shame.
More info... see last post.
http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4866
We know exactly what happened the last time the victim wasn't armed. Not crazy about the outcome, but he's alive and the perps are in jail for a very long time.
Are you sure about the employee thing? I know the owner can, but just a regular employee can carry? Im not sure thats why I'm asking?
yes Florida's self defense law is very broad and if this POS came in waving a gun the threat was obvious and immediate. Case closed..
This might be relevant:
QuoteOn April 15, 2008, Florida Governor Charlie Crist signed into law Florida Statute §790.251 over the objections of several business associations and companies. While the bill is formally titled "The Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008," pundits have dubbed the legislation the "Take Your Gun to Work" law. The new law, already the subject of a federal lawsuit, could potentially alter the workplace for any company with Florida facilities and operations.
The substance of the new law prohibits a business or employer from precluding employees (including independent contractors), customers and other invitees from bringing concealed firearms onto business property, such as a parking lot, providing the bearer has a valid permit for the weapon and the firearm is stored out of sight.
http://www.thompsonhine.com/publications/publication1429.html
UPDATE: Heard this from John @ Shanty himself... ruled self defense. The employee is a bit shaken (totally understandable) but is ok.
I'm glad everyone that matters is ok. I heard the same news, that the would be robber was shot and killed by an employee. They will be open today as well. I'll be there for beers just like everyday.
QuoteI am so glad that the bartender isnt facing charges.
Stephen... Are you certain? I hope so... Tex is a great guy... I have known him for quite a few years.
I suppose he is... I know his sister and Mother also. Thanks for the update. I have been quite preoccupied with this all morning.
Additional lighting would be great.
Wafaa & Mike's is in close proximity. I wonder if they have encountered any issues since opening...
All I want to say is I would appreciate if this thread was deleted. It dosent help the situation at all.
Respectfully,
Ian
Quote from: Lunican on August 25, 2009, 11:57:07 AM
This might be relevant:
QuoteOn April 15, 2008, Florida Governor Charlie Crist signed into law Florida Statute §790.251 over the objections of several business associations and companies. While the bill is formally titled "The Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008," pundits have dubbed the legislation the "Take Your Gun to Work" law. The new law, already the subject of a federal lawsuit, could potentially alter the workplace for any company with Florida facilities and operations.
The substance of the new law prohibits a business or employer from precluding employees (including independent contractors), customers and other invitees from bringing concealed firearms onto business property, such as a parking lot, providing the bearer has a valid permit for the weapon and the firearm is stored out of sight.
http://www.thompsonhine.com/publications/publication1429.html
Not revelant. This concerns the public parking lot not the interior of the business.
Now that I've heard this was self-defense, there could be a silver lining in this. While it dissuades the families from moving here that will make the neighborhood strong, it shows to the criminals that those who have come ain't putting up with any crap.
I look forward to having me a beer tonight at Shanty Town, infact we should make it an effort for all us metrojax members to go up there tonight or some night this week and show our support. Like others have said it's the strength in the community that will keep things like this from happening as often. I know for certain I will be up there again Friday night for their free show... my buddy plays in Johnathan Appleseed and it's my birthday.
On another note I agree, we/they need to look into some more lighting, specially in the parking lot. Though we can never make anything 100% safe we can always improve.
There is a SHADCO meeting tonight at 6pm at the SPAR building.
Why not go there first to have a presence, then to Shanty Town after?
Quote from: fsu813 on August 25, 2009, 02:44:01 PM
There is a SHADCO meeting tonight at 6pm at the SPAR building.
Why not go there first to have a presence, then to Shanty Town after?
Great idea, fsu813.
I'm tied up 'til 7 but will come by afterwards. BTW, Tom sez that if he wasn't in Brooks right now he'd be there to give Shanty and Tex his support!
If this thread is too much for Ian, and others concerned at "Shanty Town," I too recommend that this thread be discontinued; obviously, the whole incident/situation was traumatic for that establishment, Staff and it's Employees.
Heights Unknown
I understand Ian and Mary Annes distress regarding this and I honestly considered NOT posting it. My actions would have proved futile as at least two others posted the exact same thing as myself in seperate threads. I merged the threads into this one.
The posters on Metrojax are supportive of Shantytown, its owners, and employees. The Mods of this site will not allow this thread degenerate into the mess that occurs on the times union site.
I agree with both sides... if I may.
I can understand where Ian is coming from, it's gotta be hard on Tex. I hope I see him soon, I would like to give him as much support as he needs and as much as I can offer. Then again I understand it may take some time. I hope he understands he was by no means in the wrong and if anything a savior to the patrons who were placed in harms way. My best wishes go to Tex and coping with this situation.
I say we leave it up to Ian and the guys at Shanty Town. Most who care or view the board regularly already know the real story. I just don't want this to effect Tex in any sort of negative way, he truly is a good guy.
I don't know Shanty Town and I don't know Tex, but anyone who protects his customers from a robber or a crazy person with a gun is a HERO! Let's find out who the JSO uses as a counselor for their officers who have to kill someone in their job and take up a collection to get Tex to that counselor if he needs the help.
I'm a little worried about the mentality of someone who is considered "God Fearing" but yet brings a gun into a bar for whatever reason. This is sad nevertheless. A human being is dead, people are traumatized, Springfield gets another blemish. For what? It's all so senseless.
EvenStillLeader
Feels good, sounds good, is good...
I like that they posted pictures of the weapon as well...this clearly shows that Tex and the patrons were easily in danger and he was within his right to act.
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2009, 03:55:40 PM
Earvin James Sr. says the victim is his 20-year-old stepson. He called him "Nookie."
"He was a God-fearing son. He knew the bible. He'd go to church," said James.
James says his stepson was about to be a father and that he had plans to marry his girlfriend.
here we go......
if there were two others who sped off they'll likely face murder charges. good god fearing types.
I just read a page full of comments on Jacksonville.com...unbelievable how people are reacting with their misperceptions of Springfield. I had to stop reading them!
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
Man. the comments are out of control on that site as well as the TUs.
This is where we are blessed with the quality of posters and readers at Metrojacksonville.
Exactly. The comments on our local news sites are ridiculous and ignorant (for the most part).
Quote from: Karl_Pilkington on August 25, 2009, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2009, 03:55:40 PM
Earvin James Sr. says the victim is his 20-year-old stepson. He called him "Nookie."
"He was a God-fearing son. He knew the bible. He'd go to church," said James.
James says his stepson was about to be a father and that he had plans to marry his girlfriend.
here we go......
if there were two others who sped off they'll likely face murder charges. good god fearing types.
last time I checked, "God fearing, know the Bible, go to church" types should know not to go into a bar wearing black waving a weapon!!!
I know it was his relative but can they not see the stupidity
Its reasons like this is why I carry a firearm myself.
Quote from: Sportmotor on August 25, 2009, 05:12:11 PM
Its reasons like this is why I carry a firearm myself.
(http://www.v6performance.net/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
Downtownparks:
I agree with you on the online news sites. I think there is an element of people that simply wait for a "certain" kind of story and then just go ballistic (behind the anonymity of their keyboard). In essence, I think, in many cases they are under educated people with absolutely no life that get a cheap thrill (and some form of attention that is missing in their life) out of trying to be as outrageous as possible and stirring the cart.
I have almost given up following the "mainstream" news sources both locally and nationally. It is beginning to affect my well being. :o
Wait a minute, let me get this right. you all think that the news media gets it all wrong (maybe on purpose just to gin up controversy) , that the criminal deserved what he got, and that the employee is a hero who did what he had to do and probably saved several lives..... ya'll have been around me too long. You are turning into Cops!
I just hope that your logic works as well the next time an Officer is placed in the same position. But in all seriousness, it sounds like the man took action when he had to. like many things in life, some actions are very tough, and very necessary. Don't listen to the rants and opinions of others, do what is right in your heart and move on.
Quote from: Sportmotor on August 25, 2009, 08:23:04 PM
Quote from: NotNow on August 25, 2009, 08:20:39 PM
You are turning into Cops!
I resent that
:)
Don't worry, in a few years you will be repeating all the stuff your Dad said to you as well. It's scary when you realize that you are doing it.
Quote from: NotNow on August 25, 2009, 08:29:43 PM
Quote from: Sportmotor on August 25, 2009, 08:23:04 PM
Quote from: NotNow on August 25, 2009, 08:20:39 PM
You are turning into Cops!
I resent that
:)
Don't worry, in a few years you will be repeating all the stuff your Dad said to you as well. It's scary when you realize that you are doing it.
Ok now I seriously resent that and doubt it, we cant get anymore opposite on 80% of life.
For instances, he hates Gays. Im Gay lol
OK, maybe not that, but on the little things in life, I think that you will be surprised how much of him rubbed off on you. And I hope/believe that he will get over it, and you will forgive him.
Quote from: NotNow on August 25, 2009, 08:51:01 PM
OK, maybe not that, but on the little things in life, I think that you will be surprised how much of him rubbed off on you. And I hope/believe that he will get over it, and you will forgive him.
God forgives, I dont.I know what you mean, Love of cars is the major one. Not alot did tho. Thankfully.
What am I missing? I went to the jacksonville.com and first coast news sites afraid of what I would find due to posts here and there were only a few negative comments posted about Springfield. Most were supportive of Shantytown, the bartender and the outcome of the incident.
Yeah the comments are nothing like they were from last year's incident. That turned into an all out word brawl. Maybe they've been practicing moderation on those news sites and removing the negative comments.
It's about time.
To stephen and karl--
i'm posting this to clear the wrongful eyewitness statement and the vehicle mentioned "leaving the scene" in all of the news stories. there weren't two accomplices that sped off. it is my close friend that owns the older, box style, white jeep and she was with me at shantytown monday night. i left the bar an hour before the incident happened (thank goodness) while she stayed behind with a couple of other kids, until deciding to leave just moments before the crazy walked into the bar. she left alone (therefore the only one in her jeep) and was pulling out of the parking lot when she heard what she thought were firecrackers/fireworks. she's young, was tired and driving alone, so she didn't think anything else of it. just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. the asshole neighbor (and i say asshole because he often calls the cops on shantytown complaining about the noise) got his story wrong and should get his eyes checked.
Thanks for the clarification. :)
Something told me from the get-go that this was just a patron of the bar leaving. I'm not sure if this neighbor is the same one posting up on News4Jax but it probably is. He has rambled on about the sound and noise, saying the bar really doesn't care about the locals and the Springfield area, blah blah blah. I quickly stuck up for Shanty, however some people just have no clue.
I'm sure if I lived next to it I wouldn't be too happy with the noise either, but the place is still an asset to the neighborhood. Is the guy a relative newcomer or is he someone who's lived here 20 years and couldn't care less what direction the neighborhood goes in. Perhaps he misses the prossies!
Too bad, really! I was at a function in Ortega last night and all people wanted to know was, where is Shantytown, and when can we go. Sad that morbid curiousity still exists. Springfield did not need this on top of all that is going on in the neighborhood.
I drove by last night on my way to Three Layers and there were a lot of cars around and people outside. I don't know what is a normal crowd there since I have never been, but the people around outside didn't look discouraged to be there.
^
that's probably why incidents such as the one that happened on Monday night don't happen during other times of the week, it's usually busy there on most nights, too many people around. I believe both times there's been a shooting there it's been fairly quiet with just a handful of people in the bar, and they're usually in the backyard.
Quote from: David on August 27, 2009, 09:35:31 AM
that's probably why incidents such as the one that happened on Monday night don't happen during other times of the week, it's usually busy there on most nights, too many people around. I believe both times there's been a shooting there it's been fairly quiet with just a handful of people in the bar, and they're usually in the backyard.
ya both nights were Mondays, though generally Mondays are a decent crowd, its a hit or miss. "Metal Mondays"
QuoteI'm sure if I lived next to it I wouldn't be too happy with the noise either, but the place is still an asset to the neighborhood. Is the guy a relative newcomer or is he someone who's lived here 20 years and couldn't care less what direction the neighborhood goes in. Perhaps he misses the prossies!
im not 100% on this but i believe a i read somewhere he is a fairly new homeowner in the area. even if it had been before the bar open (what 4 years ago?) he should have noticed the commercial building he was moving in next to and taken that into concideration. just my 2 cents
Quote from: 904Scars on August 27, 2009, 07:39:52 AM
I'm not sure if this neighbor is the same one posting up on News4Jax but it probably is. He has rambled on about the sound and noise, saying the bar really doesn't care about the locals and the Springfield area, blah blah blah.
Sounds like a regular Mr Rogers. I wonder if this neighbor is the same douchebag who put a bullet through their back door a couple of weeks ago?