Why are chain restaurants in this city so popular that they have people waiting outside the door? One time, I received a plethora of gift cards to these places. Let's just say my experience was pretty bad when compared to private restaurants. For example, at an Olive Garden near Orange Park - I had some pretty bad service and the management kept quoting stuff from the corporate handbook saying she can't do anything about it. I don't think I've ever had anyone quote stuff from a handbook at some of the locally owned restaurants. Quite a lot of them did everything they could to fix the problem. Yet those chain restaurants probably do 5x the business as the local ones. They charge more for the food and the quality is pretty mediocre. Why are they so popular?
I think people are comfortable with places they are familiar so they may not be curious to try a restaurant without a national presence. Some also may have not ventured too far from Jacksonville and have not been exposed to independent restaurants like 13 Gypsies. Even pizza places like Moon River, despite the thread that received so much attention.
Awareness and marketing go far which these independent restaurants don't have much of a budget compared to chains.
They are popular because it is where you can get the most fat and salt for the least money really fast.
People love salt and fat.
I think they are popular , because people accept mediocre food and service . Private restaurants strive harder , because the are riding on corporate popularity , If you want personal service and good food give your local restaurant a try and tell them if is not up to par . They have more to lose by not improving.
Correction-not riding on corporate popularity
They're popular because they spend millions of dollars on advertising where the food looks really good so people are convinced they need to go to the restaurant. They do tons of market research to find out what people want and what people like. They are family friendly, not too expensive and most of the time customers get to take something home with them. Fish in a barrel...
Yeah, I like the fat and salt myself,dammit man!!!!!!!!!!!
People don't want to take the risk involved in going to an independent restaurant. You never know what you'll get...for me, that is the fun of it.
I'm not completely buying it. If you're good at what you do & you have a good product, then you will succeed. I'm confident that Orsay, Bistro AIX, Mossfire Grill, The Fox, Metro Diner etc. did/are doing just fine this weekend - & I doubt that many patrons could just meander in & immediately be seated. I'm also confident that Jacksonville's favorite dining establishments would NOT be chains. I don't go to restaurants just because they are independent or because it's my civic duty; although I love the novelty of trying new places - I go because I enjoy the overall experience (value stressed). All things being equal, I think that just about anyone in town would select something with a local flair in lieu of something that just as easily could be had in Macon or Ocala - or Boise, for that matter. Many chains weren't contrived in a back office or boardroom - they started small & then expanded (franchises were spawned). Chains aren't just some Jacksonville phenomenon - they're popular in every city - that's what gives them the ability to become "chains" - reputation & proven track record. The chains don't typically show up on the Health Dept. rap sheets; & they have supplementary staff in addition to a "corporate" hierarchy to ensure that there are customer service levels to strive toward & enforce. The chains employ a significant number of individuals in a down economy. Chains are not immune - look at places that would have been considered bulletproof a decade ago: Bennigan's, Steak & Ale, Chevy's, et. al.
BTW, I wonder if I'm the only one that feels more guilty sending food back (if/when) necessary at an independent............. ;)
Quoteplenty of great restaurants with great business plans fail because they lack the marketing and low cost bulk pricing of the corps.
Agreed - & that could be said for any type of business.
I think it's a comfort thing for a lot of people. Outback is going to taste like Outback and Applebee's is going to taste like Applebee's. It may not be the best taste but it's a taste.
My fiance was asking why I like La Nopalera and that's one of the reasons why. It's not the best mexican food I've ever had but it's consistent. Back when they were around, the first couple of times I ate at Dona Marias, it was awesome- everything had a better flavor and the service was better and that little house was certainly cooler than an ex-Pizza Hut on Atlantic, the next time I ate there, it was beyond horrible and I found myself back where I knew exactly what I was going to get.
And you'd be amazed at how many people in Jacksonville and elsewhere DO list their favorite restaurant as a chain place. The little places always win in the folio but it caters to a different demographic than most of the town. If the Times Union did a big poll as to the best place to eat in town, I'd bet you'd see some chain place like Olive Garden as the winner. I'd go as far to say that there are probably people on this board who would list a chain as their favorite. I'm not going to pass judgment, eat what you like. Here's something that'll piss off the foodies: I ate at Ruby Tuesday the other day and the burger was pretty awesome and the fries were honestly the best fries I've ever eaten.
On the service side, I've had equally terrible experiences with service at both chains (Chili's) and local restaurants (Nicky G's Pizza) and equally great (Espeto, The Melting Pot). With that being said, I'm basically just a sucker for good, consistent food. If I can find it locally, I'd much prefer La Nopalara Carne Asada Tacos to something like Qdoba, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with chains.
Chains can be very comforting for the non-adventurous. Sometimes people just aren't in the mood to go on a proverbial blind date with an independent local eatery. When I'm exhausted, there's something rather reassuring about knowing that I can always walk into a Carrabbas and get the exact same goat cheese chicken executed consistently, and more often than not, rather well. Or, if I'm feeling like the pressures of work are weighing heavily, it's rather cool to be able to order the EXACT same pizza from Pizza Hut that I went with my Dad to pick up on Friday night as a kid. When life gets hectic, a complication as simple as deciphering an unfamiliar menu can be a real hassle when you have a favorite standby bagel at Panera, burrito at Moe's, or burger at Five Guys.
I definitely think though that, of all the cities I've spent considerable time in, Jacksonville is the most chain-obsessed. I think it kind of speaks to the unnecessary, self-fulfilling inferiority complex so prevalent around these parts. As if spending time at "name brand" restaurants lends more cache' than eating at local establishments. I've never seen so many people brag about spending a special evening at Outback (inevitably, and strangely, always pronounced as "Outbacks").
It is rather depressing as, to me, there's something rather generic about spending a special evening at a chain. I would be apalled, for example, if I was a visitor coming from out of town and was taken to a place like the Cheesecake Factory for a Saturday Night dinner. But what can you do.
For a city the size of Jacksonville, the dining scene isn't half of what it should be. I would love to see a plethora of edgy new independent restaurants open, but sadly, I think I've come to terms with the fact that 90% of the city would rather have a California Pizza Kitchen, Bahama Breeze, or Macaroni Grill like "the big cities do."
best french fries from an independent...Carl's on Main Street.
Quote from: cityimrov on August 22, 2009, 02:27:47 PM
Let's just say my experience was pretty bad when compared to private restaurants. For example, at an Olive Garden near Orange Park - I had some pretty bad service
I think you should consider yourself lucky if your experience with non-chain restaurants has been that positive. For the most part, I think non-chains are completely hit-and-miss. Some are fantastic, while others have no business running a restaurant at all.
Out of curiosity, which independent restaurants are you comparing to Olive Garden? I think one of the biggest fallacies in the "local versus chain" debate is that people like to compare casual dining chains against upscale dining independents. In other words, it makes no sense to trash Olive Garden because AIX or Orsay are better. It doesn't even really make sense to compare it to places like Santioni's because the atmosphere and price-points are so different. It's probably more appropriately compared to places like Pizza Palace or Vito's.
Now, frankly, I think Vito's is better than Olive Garden. But at least when you frame the debate that way, you have to admit that someone's preference could legitimately go either way.
Alot of people in Jacksonville love simple, bland name brands. See Target, Chili's, Best Buy, etc. They eat it up like good consumers.
I'd agree with a lot of what is said here, however, this is my #1: The Suburban, car-based nature of most of Jacksonville.
Frankly, I think it is MUCH easier for a small retailer to open in a high pedestrian traffic atmosphere, because people will be able to walk by and see the place easier. I've always felt that for a true independent, they have to go above and beyond to get noticed in the burbs, and they have to give it a lot of time, something that many small business owners don't have budgeted to do.
Chains that NEED to come or expand:
Trader Joe's
Chipotle
upscale dept. stores to SJTC to make it more than an upscale strip mall
Quote from: blizz01 on August 22, 2009, 10:29:11 PM
BTW, I wonder if I'm the only one that feels more guilty sending food back (if/when) necessary at an independent............. ;)
I am with you, but it's rare that I send food back. I don't recall a negative reaction when I've asked for a medium-rare piece of meat, rather than a medium.
Usually I am offered a free dessert or a free meal because of it. I decline because my sending it back is an opportunity for the independent to serve what the customer ordered and maybe the kitchen will be more mindful in getting the orders right.
I'm more invested in having our homegrown restaurants succeed than landing another Chili's, Applebees or Olive Garden.
I'm not a total food snob, though. I have a weakness for Chinese buffets. :)
As someone pretty new to Jacksonville, and having worked in the restaurant industry all through college, I'd say this is hardly exclusively to Jacksonville. Go to most cities on most Friday/Saturday nights and you'll see lines outside of Chilis and and Applebees and local resturants going out of business right and left. Its not just a resturant thing either, it's the same way Lowes will put a local hardware store out of business or a trader joes/whole foods will put your local health food/import store out of business.
So to sum up most the points....
People go eat at chain restaurants because "The Big Flashy Sign & TV" tells them to eat there that way they can do what "everyone else is doing" and be happy and joyous like the "TV Family" who eats there - even if they end up looking and acting miserable when they actually eat there?
The food quality, service, atmosphere, and price could be a whole lot worse then other choices but people will eat at these places because of a "fake image" vs actually having those things in reality? I want to say this is "wierd" but judging from the numbers...this is normal.
*Not to say all chains are bad it's just the feeling that people will ignore the reality of the place and still go there based on some fake reason seems...wierd?
well put, cityimrov
So when can we expect the MetroJacksonville dining guide and local restaurant directory?
QuoteSo to sum up most the points....
People go eat at chain restaurants because "The Big Flashy Sign & TV" tells them to eat there that way they can do what "everyone else is doing" and be happy and joyous like the "TV Family" who eats there - even if they end up looking and acting miserable when they actually eat there?
I really didn't get that conclusion at all although I ate at Bonefish Grill tonight & it was very satisfying - I even used a gift card. I tried to eat at Primi Piatti last week, but they were closed for vacation ;). (I did go to Sumo Sushi instead, though)............
IDEA!?!
Why not have a burger contest. Everyone go in and photograph the burger on the chain store menu board or promo, then photograph the burger that they actually serve you! I've done this in California with a group of friends and it was a freaking riot!
Just ID the store, location, time of day, and post your photos.
I grew up on Milligans, then Krystal Burgers (same basic thing) and the last few I've ordered the buns are offset by 2 inches.
OCKLAWAHA
http://thewvsr.com/adsvsreality.htm
Love the photos blizz01, that's what I'm talking about. We should do our own, who knows, maybe someplace in Jacksonville is where the REAL burger is found?
OCKLAWAHA
Strangely enough, the most well presented burgers are sometimes at chain places. During a couple of rather late trips to Baptist South, I'd get a burger at Applebee's and it wasn't the absolute best thing ever but it was plated beautifully. Going to a burger joint known for their burgers and it's usually a different affair. Cruisers, Five Guys and the like serve you something that looks like hell and tastes like heaven. Hell, at Five Guys they throw your cup of fries into the bag and then toss another cup's worth into the bag loose.
Looking at that horrid food bowl by KFC reminded me of their newest sandwich, The Double Down:
http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/08/the-kfc-double-down-sandwich-uses-chicken-patties-instead-of-buns/
Two kinds of cheese, bacon, sauce inbetween two boneless fried chicken breasts.
Yikes.
Count me in.
We could call it "In search of the ugly burger."
Chain restaurants have mass media advertising. You pretty much know what you're going to find in a franchise restaurant any where you go. An Olive Garden is the same in Atlanta, Orlando, Panama City, Montgomery, and Nashville. The only difference is the service you get. Much of that depends upon who showed up for work today.
Quote from: Overstreet on August 24, 2009, 08:42:13 AM
Chain restaurants have mass media advertising. You pretty much know what you're going to find in a franchise restaurant any where you go. An Olive Garden is the same in Atlanta, Orlando, Panama City, Montgomery, and Nashville. The only difference is the service you get. Much of that depends upon who showed up for work today.
Not when you travel international, you find some strange things at good old American fast food joints. The Rice Bowl in Papua New Guinea, is really good. The Mickey D's brownie sundays in Colombia are great too. I'm sure there are even more that I haven't seen. OCKLAWAHA
WOW, If the Double Down is real, I'm in absolute shock... I can't believe that they would actually try and push something like that.
I think the reason chain restaurants are popular in Jax is because they outnumber independents.
Great link Blizz!
Quote from: TPC on August 24, 2009, 10:16:47 AM
I think the reason chain restaurants are popular in Jax is because they outnumber independents.
I agree and I think the fact that they outnumber indies was mentioned earlier in this thread, but building on the fact that they outnumber, you forget that for a lot of people, convenience is key. It's unlikely (although, I've done it numerous times) that someone would drive across town for a really good meal at a local establishment when chain restaurants can be found in literally every neighborhood or at least a 10 minute ride away from their home. I've never really understood my friend's fascination with chili's nor applebees for that matter... I'm a huge fan of Mossfire and The Fox...
Unless you count the Loop and Firehouse, I don't think I've been to a sit down chain in years. The one weak spot for me is sandwich shops, they seem too tough to predict for me to just try one out on my lunch break. Chow Down Alley on Old St Augustine is amazing, but it's extremely rare to find a sandwich shop that is that good. Anybody know of a good sandwich/lunch spot near Lakewood?
Additionally, the lure of Chic Fil A is far too much for me to resist. I wish they would put one closer to San Marco or Downtown.
I (and my arteries) are still in awe at the "McGangBang."
Anyone ever order one of these without requiring a quadruple bypass?
I think that the reason chains do well is because we have a lot of implants in Jacksonville. With the Navy and other jobs that bring a lot of new people to Jacksonville it allows for people to eat out without the fear of the unknown. As someone pointed out Applebee's taste like Applebees wither it's here or in LA, Norfolk or Oklahoma City.
Also some of it's easier because you don't need to learn the menu. You know what the chains serve because they serve the same food no matter where you go.
Another personal reason is accountability. As we learned in another thread, local restaurants don't have a corporate office to complain to, if say they allow their servers to skip paying customers. You take the chance of poor service with mangers/owners who don't care.
You know, something else too - Jax has children - lots of 'em. And we tend to start families early here for some reason - that's been mentioned before. Just about every chain caters to that - whether it's Kid's Night, discounted, or even free meals - & in today's society, people want to feel like they were hooked up somehow.
"McGangBang."
???
What the Hell is that?
(http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mcgangbang.jpg)
McGangBang
1 DBL CHEESE @ $1.00
1 SPICY CHICKEN @ $1.00
---------------------------
Best $2.14 you'll ever spend!
Quote from: blizz01 on August 25, 2009, 12:02:44 AM
And we tend to start families early here for some reason - that's been mentioned before.
For reasons unknown to me, it is a topic that some on this board continue to bring up.
QuoteFor reasons unknown to me, it is a topic that some on this board continue to bring up.
To clarify, my statement was not meant with any negative connotation, in fact there is probably some validity to it, and assuming so, that certainly feeds a target demographic. There is certainly no shame in being perceived as a family friendly city. I suppose the discussion is balanced more with regard to "date night", i.e. taking kids out of the equation.
Not directed at you but it has been brought up as a negative by some on this board in reference to the city's lack of nighlife.
http://www.thegrio.com/2009/08/kfc-has-found-itself-embroiled.php
The rumors are true. The Double Down exists.
I also called KFC's customer service hotline to get more direct answers. The representative I spoke to told me that the "sandwich" is in fact real and that it is being sold as a promotion in certain parts of the country (Fox News reported that it is available in Rhode Island and Nebraska). The representative was unable to tell me exactly where it was being sold but suggested that I call the restaurants nearest to me to check. I called a couple of KFCs in my area as well as a few fast food junkie friends of mine around the country, and none of them had seen this monster "sandwich."
If you get it with Kentucky Grilled Chicken, is is healthy?
^ My god. I'm frightened of that thing! It threatens to consume us all!
I think they are most popular for the predictability. We know what we like and they provide it. For this purpose, I'm a Red Lobster fanatic.
Red Lobster has turned it around from what they were just 5 years ago.
Also, I'll admit it, I'm a Chili's fanatic.
Quote from: reednavy on September 11, 2009, 09:17:11 PM
Red Lobster has turned it around from what they were just 5 years ago.
Also, I'll admit it, I'm a Chili's fanatic.
Red Lobster has always been an enigma to me (I liked the cheddar biscuits...do they still have those). But, who in their right mind goes there for seafood (frozen and shipped from other areas of the country)? We obviously live in an area rich with fresh seafood sources and restaurants.
I will not get started on Chili's next :)
Quote from: reednavy on September 11, 2009, 09:17:11 PM
Red Lobster has turned it around from what they were just 5 years ago.
Also, I'll admit it, I'm a Chili's fanatic.
Me too!
Quote from: copperfiend on August 25, 2009, 10:09:13 AM
Not directed at you but it has been brought up as a negative by some on this board in reference to the city's lack of nighlife.
It was just a harmless observation, though it's also a true one. Nothing negative was implied, I think it's just that most people who've lived elsewhere and then moved here tend to be perplexed by it...myself included.
Honestly, tell me you don't notice the hugely disproportionate number of teens and 20-somethings around here who already have kids (and not just one, it seems like it's usually a whole
litter), compared to other cities of this size? Just look ANYWHERE around here, you can't miss it.
I'm not painting it as positive or a negative, just saying it's a part of Jacksonville culture, and one that I don't necessarily understand.
This post will probably offend like 900% of Jacksonville. But to put it bluntly, people are sheep. Not only are they sheep, they're fat, lazy sheep at that. They see the commercials on TV for the endless soup and salad, the chicken crispers, the burgers "bigger than your head", and they flock to chain restaurants because we're an overweight, ignorant city that wants to have everything the same, everything now.
Chain restaurants are just a fact of suburbia and sprawl. When there's a Chilis right down the street, why not just go there with all 10 kids instead of driving downtown or to riverside or the beach to visit a nice small restaurant where the food is better? Because it's convenient. Even when it's not convenient and you spend an HOUR waiting in line just to grab a table at Outback so you can have your greasy-ass bloomin' onion. (Of which I freely admit I am addicted to.)
People in this town are also afraid of new cuisine or their just plain afraid of it being bad that ONE TIME. And if (God forbid) they do try some place new more than once and it's bad the second time, they never go back and poo-poo it to all of their soccer mom/golf buddy friends. They want the fore mentioned greasy ass whatever to be the consistently and exactly same every time. It's their comfort food. It's what they like to spend their money on.
I'm a darn militant foodie. I like the holes-in-the-wall, the mom-and-pops, the taco stands, the billion different little sushi and seafood places this town has to offer because they're simply better and offer better selection than any chain. And I brashly think I can cook a million times better than any chain restaurant line chef in Jacksonville.
Too much coffee this morning.
Suck it.
I'll heap on the hard truths that will offend 90% of Jax:
I honestly think that most chains are profitable because the people who frequent them don't know (or don't care) that the food is bad. And it is bad.
I have heard people swear up and down that the Olive Garden/Carraba's/Maggiano's/etc are good Italian food. They're not. They are horrible any kind of food -- frozen, bland or overly salty, jar sauced, pre-prepared, and poorly executed.
People like chain restaurants because they eat out like they cook at home: semi-homemade, bland, ready-in-10 meals with poor quality ingredients. Processed and easy has insidiously taken over the American kitchen in the guise of economy. It is possible to cook fresh, good, flavorful food for a family quickly, easily, and economically. It just takes effort (and good humor). A population that has killed their tastebuds at home can't be expected to demand anything better when they eat out.
Trying a mom and pop is like trying a new recipe at home: sometimes it's a hit; sometimes it's not. The adventure is in trying and discovering foodie gems. Not every place will be hit, but most will be cheaper and better than going to Olive Garden . . . again.
Lots of people love cheap for cheap's sake and prefer food that's bad and cheap to food that is great value for money. I'd rather spend $4 more on a family meal and have it be great (and eat out less), than $4 less and the food be terrible. However, here in JAX, it's possible to get better, cheaper food outside of the major chains. Almost every restaurant in this town is child friendly.
It's not about food snobbery, it's about demanding good tasting, well-sourced, and well-prepared food every time and at every price point.
Olive Garden sucks.
Cheesecake Factory FTW, no matter what you say.
Mimi's is stupid awful.
Quote from: JaxByDefault on September 18, 2009, 07:25:03 AM
most will be cheaper and better than going to Olive Garden...
Well, since you mentioned it, that's another mystifying JAX trait that leaves me clueless...
The Mom & Pops around here are twice as expensive as the chains, and it's a coin-toss as to whether the food will be any better. Go have your $9 sandwich and $3 soda at Judson's, your $15 glass of wine at Biscottis, your $14 hamburger at O'Brothers, or go to pretty much ANY of the 4000 Thai restaurants that sprung up like mushrooms around here, selling $20 plates padt thai and $30 cashew chicken. WTFFFFFFFF? I mean, don't get me wrong, I frequent those places and enjoy it, but it's sure not saving me any money over eating at Chilis or Carabbas.
The worst of the worst had to be the Bungle on Park, though. OMFG that place was something else. Worst meal of my life, literally. I mean EVER. And extortionary prices on top of it. In any other city, I'd agree with you, the smaller places are usually better and cheaper than the chains. But around here, they're usually a lot more money.
A couple notable exceptions (e.g., good AND not highway robbery) are Kickback's, Burrito Gallery, La Nop, and Harpoon Louie's.
Oh and one more for the good & reasonable list; Cool Moose
QuoteI like the holes-in-the-wall, the mom-and-pops, the taco stands, the billion different little sushi and seafood places this town has to offer because they're simply better and offer better selection than any chain.
'nuff said! It seems to me that there are certainly a proportionate number of "QUALITY" independent restaurants around - the good ones do survive (most of the time). I'd be willing to bet that I could go an entire month - breakfast, lunch, & dinner - and not hit the same spot twice. Could you do that with the chains?
Quote from: blizz01 on September 18, 2009, 08:18:45 PM
QuoteI like the holes-in-the-wall, the mom-and-pops, the taco stands, the billion different little sushi and seafood places this town has to offer because they're simply better and offer better selection than any chain.
'nuff said! It seems to me that there are certainly a proportionate number of "QUALITY" independent restaurants around - the good ones do survive (most of the time). I'd be willing to bet that I could go an entire month - breakfast, lunch, & dinner - and not hit the same spot twice. Could you do that with the chains?
I could...chains aren't entirely evil.
agree.
Quote from: DavidWilliams on September 18, 2009, 09:30:16 PM
Quote from: blizz01 on September 18, 2009, 08:18:45 PM
QuoteI like the holes-in-the-wall, the mom-and-pops, the taco stands, the billion different little sushi and seafood places this town has to offer because they're simply better and offer better selection than any chain.
'nuff said! It seems to me that there are certainly a proportionate number of "QUALITY" independent restaurants around - the good ones do survive (most of the time). I'd be willing to bet that I could go an entire month - breakfast, lunch, & dinner - and not hit the same spot twice. Could you do that with the chains?
I could...chains aren't entirely evil.
I do agree that chains aren't evil. But I like good food. And if I have to pay a little more for a really good meal at a smaller place, I will. Because I like fresh food. Sysco food is Sysco food. Too much salt, too many preservatives, and just generally tastes like junk to me. When you go to a chain you're usually getting just that.
But if I'm in a hurry, I'm sure gonna eat there. Because if there's no line waiting out the door, you get that generally bad food rather fast, and it does fill you up and it is cheap. I'm a huge fan of Tijuana flats, even though it's chain. They offer good food and it's fast and generally not frozen.
But 13 Gypsies is awesome, and so is Metro diner, and all of the other little places in Riverside. And I make it a point to go to Beachside Seafood when I get out there. Because I love being yelled at by the staff and eating on the deck.
Tijuana flats is decent. Roy's is a chain and has pretty good food also.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on September 21, 2009, 10:17:10 AM
13 Gypsies...
Yeah 13G is the $h!t...
Can't believe I forgot to add that to my list originally.
Chain food is cheap because the processed food is fed with cheap corn which is fertilized to death. Check out the amount of corn that is consumed by the food industry, its sick how much is used to feed cows, chickens, hogs, you name it. Because the food for the food industry is cheap, they can produce mass manipulated food for cheap.
Why so many 99 cent value meals? All processed food.
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 21, 2009, 11:46:34 PM
Chain food is cheap because the processed food is fed with cheap corn which is fertilized to death. Check out the amount of corn that is consumed by the food industry, its sick how much is used to feed cows, chickens, hogs, you name it. Because the food for the food industry is cheap, they can produce mass manipulated food for cheap.
Why so many 99 cent value meals? All processed food.
Q.F.T. It's cheap because it's made cheap.
Chain succeed by the fact they have the ability to buy in bulk, all the time, because they put their name on something and put it everywhere and MUST be consistent across every outlet. Somewhere like the Wine Cellar or the mansion at Epping Forest has to special order in some really awesome ingredients, but they can't buy most of that in bulk. I mean, really, truffles in bulk is still going to be insanely pricey.
Now, as far as Italian food chains, Chinese food chains, Japanese steakhouse chains, et cetera - most don't even offer authentic cuisine. I have a huge pet peeve for Italian places in America. Especially in regards to pizza in general. Some of it tastes alright, it's certainly edible, but you'll never catch me near a Pizza Hut or a Papa John's unless someone's drugged me. I'd much rather grab some pizza by the weight, not by the pie and how many toppings.
Granted sometimes, I do dig the American-Chinese take-away.
And for hamburgers and standard pub fare... I'm not too into fried foods. (Unless it's really good fish and chips). Most drive me up the walls. And the whole bacon plus cheese plus mayo plus high fat % ground beef just makes me a little sick inside. I'd rather have some bacon, eggs whites, and raisin toast as a sandwich any day.
Most of the Greek food here has been fairly decent... I will say that. And I don't know of any real national chains for it, other than Hovan which is like Mediterranean snack food to me.
Independently owned restaurants generally do cost more than chain restaurants (unless we're comparing Five Points Coffee and Spice's dinners that include steak ($8) to Outback or some other steakhouse restaurant ($12+ I'd imagine, I've never even been to one...)
And as far as independently owned restaurants, best ever, has to be the Jewish Mother in Virginia Beach, VA. Shame there's nothing really like that here...
Quote from: RiversideLoki on September 22, 2009, 09:47:00 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 21, 2009, 11:46:34 PM
Chain food is cheap because the processed food is fed with cheap corn which is fertilized to death. Check out the amount of corn that is consumed by the food industry, its sick how much is used to feed cows, chickens, hogs, you name it. Because the food for the food industry is cheap, they can produce mass manipulated food for cheap.
Why so many 99 cent value meals? All processed food.
Q.F.T. It's cheap because it's made cheap.
Well DUH!
QuoteQ.F.T. It's cheap because it's made cheap.
Our labor is not cheap, more expensive than overseas for sure. The food is processed together so cheap that it offsets for the labor to heat it up, wrap it in packaging, and serve it.
I don't think Hovan's is a chain, unless two restaurants is a chain. Try their lamb sometime. It's awesome!
Hovan's is a franchise chain. They have them in Atlanta.
Ah! I just knew of the two here in Duval. The owner of the one in 5 Points doesn't act like he's part of a franchise chain. At least for dinner he does his own menu and wines. His wines are unusual, from Greece and Lebanon. Hummos and falafel are first rate, too.
They have about 10 stores around the SE.
http://www.hovan.com/
I haven't been in a while but does the one in Riverside still switch to a kind of traditional sit-down place at night?
Quote from: RiversideLoki on September 16, 2009, 10:56:13 AM
This post will probably offend like 900% of Jacksonville. But to put it bluntly, people are sheep. Not only are they sheep, they're fat, lazy sheep at that. They see the commercials on TV for the endless soup and salad, the chicken crispers, the burgers "bigger than your head", and they flock to chain restaurants because we're an overweight, ignorant city that wants to have everything the same, everything now.
Chain restaurants are just a fact of suburbia and sprawl. ....
People in this town are also afraid of new cuisine or their just plain afraid of it being bad that ONE TIME. And if (God forbid) they do try some place new more than once and it's bad the second time, they never go back and poo-poo it to all of their soccer mom/golf buddy friends. They want the fore mentioned greasy ass whatever to be the consistently and exactly same every time. It's their comfort food. It's what they like to spend their money on....
This is close to a thought I have. Our local cuisine reflects the City's personality as a whole: lacking creativity, vision, thoughtfulness, effort, sophistication, risk-taking, edginess, adventure, investment, character. We like simple, easy, dumbed down, conservative, same-ol' (except for historic buildings), devoid of character, bland, on-the-cheap, instantly-gratifying approaches.
QuoteCity's personality as a whole: lacking creativity, vision, thoughtfulness, effort, sophistication, risk-taking, edginess, adventure, investment, character. We like simple, easy, dumbed down, conservative, same-ol' (except for historic buildings), devoid of character, bland, on-the-cheap, instantly-gratifying approaches.
Well, yeah, of course, look at the history of the education system in Jacksonville? We had the world's busiest train station in 1920, but it took until the 60s to have a University. For so long our main industry was ship building, logs, and terpentine. What education did you need to hammer a nail into a board? Or move logs down the river? Or change sap into fuel?
We are a simple town, we may never be as fancy as Tampa or Miami in terms of culture or edginess, but while part of me wishes for it, the other part enjoys the simpleness of Jacksonville.
When out in the area woods I like to open the ice chest,announce "how about a pilsner!!?" and hand 'dem boys a Heinekin.....one of 'dem socialist beers.They look at the bottle as if it is bomb.
Quote from: north miami on October 15, 2009, 10:04:45 AM
When out in the area woods I like to open the ice chest,announce "how about a pilsner!!?" and hand 'dem boys a Heinekin.....one of 'dem socialist beers.They look at the bottle as if it is bomb.
Actually they are looking at it and thinking, "you drink this crap" ;)
now civil that wasn't very civil of you...........your response is perfect reinforcement.
No, they would not know whether it is as bad as you suggest because they would never ever try it.
It may not be as bad as civil suggests, but it's certainly not as good as you suggest, North Miami. Have a bottle of Stone Ruination or Harpoon Leviathan to open your eyes to some real beers.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 15, 2009, 11:41:01 AM
It may not be as bad as civil suggests, but it's certainly not as good as you suggest, North Miami. Have a bottle of Stone Ruination or Harpoon Leviathan to open your eyes to some real beers.
Mmmmmmm Abita IPA
To slant back to part of the subject; which is worse, chain restaurants or chain beer? Jeeze, I'm old enough to remember when Heineken was the ONLY alternative, better tasting choice. Times have changed for the better!
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 15, 2009, 01:47:17 PM
To slant back to part of the subject; which is worse, chain restaurants or chain beer? Jeeze, I'm old enough to remember when Heineken was the ONLY alternative, better tasting choice. Times have changed for the better!
I've heard Yuengling called a "fancy import" though it's actually still American (unlike Bud/Miller/Coors) and the same price as Bud. Let alone trying to get some people to sample a microbrew...
Philly's Yuengling & Boston's Sam Adams are the new American "Big Boys" - Actually, Yuengling is touted as America's oldest brewer.
Quote from: blizz01 on October 20, 2009, 03:52:33 PM
Actually, Yuengling is touted as America's oldest brewer.
Yeah, I don't understand how someone could miss that...
Anybody want to meet up for a Miller Lite and some mozerella sticks at TGI Friday's? How about a Bud Light and cheese fries at Chili's? Coors Light and chicken fingers at Applebee's?
Oh god! And I've just finished breakfast!
For cheap tasty beer, try Shiner Bock! As cheap as bud light and as tasty as something legitimate. I am all against chains, but boy do I love Chick Fil A.
Capt Z, do you realize how much more money they would make if the sandwiches were $1.99 and they were open on sundays? (I would buy a 4 pack every sunday!) :D
Quote from: thekillingwax on August 23, 2009, 12:25:25 AM
And you'd be amazed at how many people in Jacksonville and elsewhere DO list their favorite restaurant as a chain place. The little places always win in the folio but it caters to a different demographic than most of the town. If the Times Union did a big poll as to the best place to eat in town, I'd bet you'd see some chain place like Olive Garden as the winner.
This issue came up at lunch with some colleagues last week - why are chain restaurants so popular? (Aside from the many great reasons posted here) Someone made the comment
"Jacksonville is still in the stage where we (as residents) are proud to have chain restaurants." Couldn't be more true. While I do believe it is good to have the chains, particularly the upper echelon chains as the city establishes itself as a business relocation and tourism destination (sporting events such as The Players, Florida-Georgia, Gator Bowl, etc), I think it is more important to have established local restaurants as part of our cultural identity. The best part about entertaining someone in your hometown, whether it be friends, family, or business, is taking them to a great local restaurant that leaves a memorable impression and spreads via word of mouth.
Most of my extended family lives in Dublin, Ga and when they come here they act like Jacksonville is Hong Kong or something. They started getting chain places a few years back and when the Olive Garden and Carrabba's opened, they acted as if the French Laundry had just relocated there. We're still that way. I remember the fanfare surrounding PF Chang's and the Cheesecake Factory opening here. No one mourned when we lost Uli's at the beach though (well except me, I guess). We're getting better but chains will never go away and that really doesn't bother me in the least.
Speaking of Carabba's. I ate there for the first time last week. Great salad but the entree was just 'meh'.
We are opposites there. I like most of their grilled items but have never like thier salads.
Chains = jobs, too. More than a mom & pop could provide.