Five Points: A "Niching" Success
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/neighborhoods/riverside/p1050890.JPG)
In 1989 Five Points was a dumpy little shopping strip in a generally rundown and high crime area. There was a baker's dozen of businesses, many of which had been long time occupants and a few 'artsy' establishments, but very little cohesion and each shop had developed its own customer and following.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-aug-five-points-a-niching-success
If Main Street ever picks up, parking is going to be a HUGE problem. There is barely enough parking now and it is mostly vacant.
I think it will be at least a decade before parking on Main becomes a major problem. Right now, half of the parking on the street has been inaccessible for a few years. Once construction ends, you'll gain that back, plus on-street parking on every side street.
Long term parking issues can be settled by taking advantage of our alleys for smaller existing structures. As large infill projects come in, the market will demand them to include off-street parking solutions, similar to what the Chelsea Lofts and 1661 Riverside had to do in Five Points or even 3rd & Main in Springfield.
Great article but I think you should have included a little more about how successful the area is now beyond the Niching.
Interesting article. I could see this same concept being successful in Murray Hill.
As for main street, there are plenty of closed down car lots for surface parking that an enterprising land owner could turn into paid parking if the district ever takes off (think the lots in Little Five Points in Atlanta). I also think that as 5 Points moves beyond it's "Bohemian" niche into something a little more yuppie, as all of Riverside is becoming, that Main Street in Springfield could benefit tremendously from similar cooperative efforts of the merchants, and by similar businesses opening up. We are off to an ok start with The Pearl and Waffa & Mikes, Zombie Bikes, Burro Bags, Shantytown, Etc...
The best entertainment in Five Points, is to sit in front of Owens Pharmacy and watch newbies and residents alike try to negotiate around that flashing light in the middle of the intersection. Folks who should stop, don't. Folks who don't need to stop, do. Watching them trying to figure out whether they really need to go around the light or can they just cut across.. Sometimes all five are trying to move at once..great entertainment.
Add a pedestrian and watch the hilarity ensue... :D
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 20, 2009, 10:21:02 AM
Add a pedestrian and watch the hilarity ensue... :D
Oh yeah! Put a slow moving white hair into the mix and its worth every penny,,
It's real good that 5 Points has finally come of age, I guess, with success if we want to call it that. I can remember when 5 Points was ho hum, businesses changing like we change underwear, no success with the businesses that were there, and 5 Points was not a shopping destination for anyone, let alone the people who lived in Riverside, Avondale, Brooklyn, etc. Nice pictures y'all!
Heights Unknown
"was a dumpy little shopping strip in a generally rundown and high crime area."
What has changed? To me, it still is. It's fine to have art-centric areas, clubs, venues, etc. but it just
looks too dirty, unkempt and old. Keep the variety/creativity but clean it up.
While helping me move back into the neighborhood today, my father was amazed at the changes. He's an old conservative guy but said the neighborhood is really cool. He grew up in J,ville but hadnt been to Riverside in years. We rode through during lunch and there were people everywhere.
Watching the traffic at the Five Points light is always entertaining, except if you are in it! The patio at Hovan's is the best vantage point. A roundabout would be a perfect solution, but there probably isn't enough room for one. It is a constant amazement why there are not more accidents there, but it probably scares everybody into being more careful.
Quote from: rjp2008 on August 20, 2009, 05:36:07 PM
Keep the variety/creativity but clean it up.
A really good start would be if the owner of Starlite would pressure wash his outside space (walk by and the smell will knock you down!) and pick up the mounds of cigarette butts that pile up in the planters. NOT a good neighbor.
^^ While I haven't seen 5 Points in person in awhile, I would disagree with rjp2008.
A certain amount of grit adds character IMO. If it's too sterile and sanitized, it ends up looking like SJTC. Also rents tend to go up when that happens, which can price out certain retailers that give it a local flavor and context.
I like 5-points, but I can't help but worry about the viability of the businesses. I frequently see space for rent, but I really hope that the area continues to do well.
Great Article! Made me really excited about moving to the neighborhood in a few months.
I am still grateful to Stephen Dare for giving us Orange Park kids a place to go. When he opened the Fusion Cafe in Five Points, it gave us a place that was close to us for those times we did not want to go all the way out the the Beaches for a night at Einstein-a-Go-Go. There was briefly a place in OP called 'Cool Beans' but it never caught on like Fusion or Einsteins.
I hope the area doesn't become too "yuppie" ...
Yes. It was great fun. You were the host with the most : )
Five Points was just whatever to me as a kid. Lived on Forbes St. and grew up in the Deli. Attended RPDS Summer Bible School, and store hopped during the summer to Abernathy (where I'd deliver a warm grilled cheese sandwich), Edge City (where Tom would keep me company during slow times), Five and Dime (where I bought many a deck of cards from over the years), and Club 5 (where I spent my later years as a teen attending endless shows).
The punk rock/grunge scene in the early 90's and all the kids, including a fella named Spanky, I grew up with and became friends with still hold a special place in my heart to this day. The businesses that came and went didn't seem that big of a deal as a kid, however now that I'm much older I ever wonder what became of those store patrons and their wacky views on life.
This article made me want to see the same thing happen again, perhaps in Springfield once all the Main St. construction is done?
And I wouldn’t worry about the parking there, Sheclown. Springfield’s grid style layout should provide plenty of close parking to Main Street. If nothing else it would still only be a short walk.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2009, 12:16:49 PM
most of them are still around. Which ones were you friends with?
David Smith, Brian Hallet, Lang MacIlrath and I had fusion and oppenheimer's.
Bill Cowan had Big Shiny Shoes.
Robert Goodman had Now Hear This.
Neil Levitsky, Scott Foster, Cliff and John Schultz owned Club Five
Kathy and Kenny owned Clean Fun
Tammy and Teri Faircloth owned The Theory Shop.
Elaine Wheeler owned Heartworks.
Pat Lolly had Nicotine
Tom Castiglia and Keath Coppedge owned Next Step Beyond.
Suzanne owned Repeat Performances
Linda Adcock owned Adcock's Costumes
Alva had the peircing place.
Lee Harvey had Lee Harvey Gallery
Tim Hamlet, Jim Minion and Tom Hager (plus several others) were the leaders of City of Expression
Christie Frazier had a business making funny hats for Raves. I think it was called CC Threads
That was pretty much the original crew.
Not a question posed to me, but what the heck. Pat Lolly, I never knew owned Nicotine, but I should have guessed. I still see him around quite frequently. He works for a painting contractor.
Lee ....um.... Harvey was a fairly close friend for some time. Our paths diverged as he entered into the unseemly wourld of post-something-or-anotherism. I still have a recording of a little jam session with him on guitar, myself on a casio cheesball keyboard, Woody Beck on drum machine and a mix of vocals. Priceless. Beck meets the flaming lips, circa 1990? He (Duval :)) owes his ascendence into artdom to the battles with Elaine Wheeler, who at the time called him (rightly) a phoney and a copycat.
Tom Hagar, from the old days at Eclipse/Dockside as an acquaintance.
I did see Lee a couple years back. Out at Jax Bch. He is the same guy, which I admire about him. I, due to raising 4 kids and all the concerns that go along with it, am much altered.
I still love me some Lee Harvey. FYI tagged as such by Mike Fox, if you know him.
Pat is doing the Creeps thing again, along with Tim, Danny and Joey. Geriatric punkers... Whoodathunk?
Nice story about 5 points. My first visit there was to Fusion Cafe. I remember walking where the dance floor was and hearing RadioHead "creep" playing. I think i was 12 or so then. I'm hoping for the best in 5 points. There are some spaces available and no one moving in right away. I like that O' brothers appears to be doing well. Steamworks is keeping the indie mold and Christy Frazier-Dailey and her husband Chris just took over The Starlite Cafe. Which is in need of some TLC. I think 5 points will be a great place for years to come. Dont forget there is still first fridays.
Part of "niching" is turnover. Stores and bars and cafes will come and go as tastes, styles and the needs of the neighborhood change. The antique mall on the corner of Park and Lomax used to be a grocery store and was then Towers Hardware. Raglands was the Riverside Gown Shop then a series of restaurants.
Nich businesses ain't diamonds.
Aww Good ole 5 Point(Jax).....I remember first hearing about this place in high school in 94. Was a huge Hip Hop fan and I was a battle DJ. Being that I went to Forrest I was no where near this location, but was always told if you want some good vinyl "You gotta go to 5Points in Riverside" Asked my mom to bring me there BUT she did not know where it was and she worked at St Vincents lol. Finally a classmate brought me to it. It felt like New York or something. Lots of different types of people around. I bought some records from some store on the Fuel side of the street, but I can not remember what the name of the store was. I ended getting my DL and started buying records at Music & Memories on Beach Blvd. Finished college in 2000 and ended up getting an apt at Post & Cherry, lived there til 2003, then moved up the road to Post & Stockton. I ended up hanging out at 5 Points a lot. I always felt good being in 5 points, everyone seemed to be doing their own thing and had their own style. Living so close to 5 Points made me start to want to see more and do more. Like a certain type of exposure. I think the yuppies should stay on the other side of the light (Lomax/Park)...What 5 Points is, it should remain. The grind to bring the kids outside of 295 back to the area should be revisited. To me all 5 Points needed was a Skyway Station, Comic shop, 2 more club/venues and it would have been perfect!
How long has the Italian Restaurant (Pizza Italian?) been in its location? I am guessing at least 30 years.
Stephen, to be completely honest, most of those names sound familiar, but after my Grandmother quit working at the 5 Points Deli, I left there too and forgot a lot of their names. My Uncle, Haywood Murray, stayed for a little while until it became Gina's Deli.
stephendare
Used to enjoy hanging out with suzanne back in the early 90's. She was a talented woman with a great deal of business savvy. Have you heard from her lately?
stephendare
Thanks for the info!
I will be traveling back to JAX on business this summer and I will stop by and say hello to Audra.
Mark