Would a spaceport here in Jacksonville be the thing that transformed our City into one of the global megalopolises?
Think about it. With ore and natural resources coming from space back to earth, there are really only a few places that would be a natural fit with the infrastructure that is already in place.
Anyone can look at a map and figure out the puzzle work that goes into delivering goods via Roads, Rail, Air and Water. Its the stuff that classic economics is made of.
Very few transportation hubs just 'happened' or were created by the new transportation system working alone.
Our own history has the example. Where the Kings Road crossed the River a city center formed. The City formed around commercial interests. There was money to be made, and therefore people came.
We are one of several seaports along the east coast.
Of those seaports, all of them have north south connections via rail and roads, but not all of them have east west connections. A shipper from the carribean for example would use jacksonville over Miami because of the rail hub that connects this city with the midwest through atlanta and with the entire southwest all the way to Los Angeles.
But when you add a third dimension to our equation, suddenly Jacksonville is one of the best cities in the entire country. Because from Jacksonville you could drop moon mined or asteroid resources directly here, and then ship it via rail to the rest of the country, via road anywhere in the region, but also through our port to anywhere else.
Thinking two dimensionally as a shipper on land and sea, we do have a good bit of competition. But thinking of places on Earth that already have the infrastructure to ship anywhere else on earth, we are really one of a very few.
Can anyone think of another American City beside New York, Los Angeles, and Seattle (with its easy canadian and access to the asian pacific) that is better situated----or even partially as well situated as jacksonville is?
Quote from: stephendare on August 17, 2009, 04:39:16 PM
Our own history has the example. Where the Kings Road crossed the River a city center formed. The City formed around commercial interests. There was money to be made, and therefore people came.
Stephendare, to be more correct the City formed around a single grocery store, which was known locally as "The Market under the big Bay Tree..." Anyone wondering where this torch was lit off need only go the the center of BAY ST at MARKET ST. Ah Ha! Now we know the REST OF THE STORY!
I think the spaceport thing could be good if it happens, but I have strong doubts. Every state with a closed Air Force Base, Naval Installation or whatever, now claims to have the "next Kennedy Space Port." So with 50 or 60 "Spaceports" around the country, and maybe 3 companies big enough to be serious about commercial space flights, I don't see the economics making this happen.
I'd put my money into Zeppelin NT, Cargo Lifter Container Zeppelins, or the new American Zeppelins,
before I'd count on Star Trek. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on August 17, 2009, 04:58:57 PM
Ock you know the answer to this better than anyone?
Screw all the former space centers. They were built for and by scientists.
On the ground, if you were planning a transfer point from space, what cities would make the most sense to you.
Looking for serious input on this.
First, as I said, I'd see us with a runaway success if we spent this same energy on Lighter-Then-Air, Sky Ships.
For the Space thing to take off we have to know more about both the vehicles as well as the intention. For example are we talking about Space Tourism (which seems more likely then cargo in the foreseeable future). Then are we talking about a craft that seats 15 people or one that seats 300? The logistics would be totally different. If 300 persons a day are touring from Jacksonville, then one can imagine that the old rail line into Cecil Field should be rebuilt and done to a standard that would support Light Rail, Commuter Rail OR freight rail, with temporal separations.
Some sort of direct JIA, JPA, JTA and AMTRAK connection to the Space Port would be a necessity.
Also depending on the type of craft and the cargos the space planes might be landing at Craig, or they might need a 3 mile runway out at Edwards AFB in California.
For passenger operations being close to the passengers would be important. So Space Ports in BFE New Mexico probably wouldn't do as well. Being half way between Miami and Atlanta, as well as just above Mickey, puts us in a good spot for attracting riders. If a space plane ride turns out to be the draw, then we could be the best suited if we can beat out Sanford and Orlando, both of which are built over old military runways in the 15,000 foot range.
Ore or other heavy deposits will not be coming by air for an eternity, unless by some chance we find the fairy dust that gives us all the powers of flight. Even so, they'd probably toss a couple of 12 pound bags in the back seat of the space plane for a long, long, time... Or at least until we can teach CSX to Fly. OCKLAWAHA
(http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040112/040112_hlg_whitesands_5p.hlarge.jpg)
Unlike Edwards AFB, Jacksonville is a pretty place to land, but there is nobody home to escort you in...
Frankly Stephendare, we would easily compare with most first tier World Port Cities but we stumble over our own success. In our rush to push endless highway projects, each that promote another 3 miles of sprawl, we trap ourselves into building infrastructure to support that growth eternally. So while our city is busy worried about the JTB's, 103Rd streets, Banding's and Baymeadows, our key Money Farm goes wanting. We are just now expanding Hecksher Drive to 4 lanes, Zoo Parkway is likewise a new 4 lanes, and Talleyrand - Buffalo is still mired in two twisting lanes north of the 20Th street Terminals. Granted we built a nice entry connector to Cecil Field with 4 lanes and landscaping, but where does it go? It links to I-10 which has been 4 lanes since 1963 M/L, meanwhile we pulled up the railroad track to the "Space Port". On the Northside we allowed the abandonment of the Atlantic Coast Line Bridge over the Trout River around 1970. The City allowed the removal of the "S" line which was mainline standards from Jacksonville Terminal to Savannah... Nope, got to keep CSX happy, so a double tracked, all signaled railroad bit the dust from Springfield to JTCO. More? Yeah, we also sat silently while CSX abandoned that same mainline from south of Savannah to just north of Kingsland, Georgia. Not to worry, that route was only about 30 miles shorter from the Northeast to Jax, and we let them take it out, without a chirp in a carload! We don't have a neutral terminal railroad anywhere except for Blount Island and Talleyrand Terminal, but neither goes more then a mile from their switching district. After that it's CSX or Trailways...
Visit Kennedy, and though it is all NASA, one can't help but notice there are TWO AIR FORCE BASES front and center. TWO! So what were our misleaders doing when they slammed the door in the face of the NAVY at Cecil? There are several bases in the America's where there is a military side of the runway and a civilian or scientific side. THIS IS HOW YOU PROTECT YOUR ASSETS LIKE SPACE PORTS! Have these promoters and industrialist even stopped to get with the Chamber and Lobby like Hell for a MASTER JET BASE at the virtually deserted NAS LEE FIELD in Green Cove Springs? Did you read about protests when the developer destroyed Switzerland Field NAS?
What about FRANCIS FIELD USN/LTA sitting in a field just south and east of World Golf Boulevard? Camp Blanding, has a WWII field in the South quadrant of the base, and the whole base has been up graded as a multi-force training station... SILENCE. Hey Lake City, Lake City still has a Air Guard base that's pretty impressive, could the Navy get back in there? Jasper? Valdosta? Albany? Glynco? Palatka? Lake Butler? .... Uh yeah Jacksonville, all former bases, and I'm sure some would be met with the welcome wagon if we just made an effort to protect our Space Port. Meanwhile Orlando and Sanford have models of how their Space Ports will look, and Both on former Military installations. Toss in Patrick, and Mc Dill, Air Force Bases, one on each side, and they have their acts together.
So as you can see, we have taken the regional strong man in transportation and logistics and created a eunuch of our own design. Does this Chamber of Commerce ever help organize business ideas? How instrumental could the CofC be if they sat with CSX, FEC, NS, TT, and JAXPORT RR's, and lay out a new OUTTER BELT RAILROAD? Does anyone realize that it is possible to pass from Westlake Industrial Park area, and the Norfork Southern Mainline, (which FEC has haulage rights to use), under the main transmission lines of JEA, up to the free trade zone AT THE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, then east right onto Blount Island?!! How tough is this stuff to figure out people?
Those new ship terminals are sweet news to all citizens, yet where's the railroad terminal road? Where is the universal access for this "World Port?", and I challenge ANYONE, I mean ANYONE, to convince me that another container yard for CSX is all we need. Poor deluded city, minions of the mini monster of Duval Street.
If this rant pisses people off then GOOD! Damn good! #$Y^@@!@)T%U()!! It's time for citizens with knowledge and guts to kick this whole damn house down and until we do, we won't compare to any of the other cities.
OCKLAWAHA
The Space Coast has a big jump on anything we might dream up on the First Coast. I bid some work at Kenedy Space Port about 6 years ago. They are already developing the civilian side of the space port.
Ock......you pretty much hit the nail on the head with what you just got through posting! Wasting time, resources and potential which seems to be the City slant on just about anything that has potential for a return on the investment. To this point I have not seen much of anything other a complete waste of time and resources and have seen nothing that would indicate a change from the Cities point of view and this really bothers me! There is no vision....no planning and I could go on and on and on!