High-speed rail plans bypass Tampa's Union Station
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/aug/09/092356/na-high-speed-rail-plans-bypass-tampas-union-stati/news-metro/ (http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/aug/09/092356/na-high-speed-rail-plans-bypass-tampas-union-stati/news-metro/)
(http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/ar/385/255/2009/08/09/9364_unionstation.jpg)The two-story, Italian Renaissance revival-style station, at 601 N. Nebraska Ave., helped shape the port city.
TAMPA - For nearly a century, Tampa's Union Station has been a hub for rail transit.
The two-story, Italian Renaissance revival-style station, at 601 N. Nebraska Ave., helped shape this port city, bringing in northern speculators, citrus and Cuban tobacco essential to Ybor City's cigar makers.
When it was renovated a decade ago, officials hoped the station would return to its former glory - serving as a catalyst that would usher in a new age of rail travel.
But as plans for a regional high-speed system serving West Central Florida begin to take shape, it's becoming clear that the landmark terminal will be bypassed.
Under the Florida Department of Transportation's plans for a high-speed rail line between Orlando and Tampa, the trains would run along the Interstate 4 corridor and stop at a yet-to-be-built station at the former Hillsborough County jail on Morgan Street, not at Union Station.(http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/full/2009/08/10/9383_rail-stations.jpg)
"It's very shortsighted," said Jackson McQuigg, head of Friends of Tampa Union Station, a nonprofit group dedicated to preserving the station's legacy. "Everywhere in the world, there's at least some connectivity between high-speed and conventional rail systems."
McQuigg said the DOT's plans would create a "disconnect" between Union Station, which is served by Amtrak's Silver Star line between New York and Miami, and the proposed station more than six blocks away. He said there are no plans to connect them.
"As far as I can tell, they DOT haven't even considered it," he said. "It's puzzling."
Don Skelton, DOT's District 7 secretary, said the new station would connect with 26 existing bus routes, the in-town trolley and possibly a light-rail line to Union Station.
"You'll be able to catch a bus or light rail to other destinations in the city," he said.
The DOT recently bought the 4.6-acre former county jail property for about $3.9 million.
Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio and members of the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority are mapping out a proposed light-rail system that would link downtown with the West Shore area, Tampa International Airport and the University of South Florida.
They want to put a question on the ballot in 2010 asking voters to back a sales tax for transit, which, if approved, could help win federal funding to construct the system.
Elaine McCloud, Tampa's transit manager, said the city hopes state transportation officials will incorporate Union Station into the high-speed rail system.
"There has to be connectivity," she said. "It can't just be a train to nowhere."
In 2002, a consulting firm hired by the DOT to study potential routes and stations for the Tampa-Orlando high-speed rail line concluded that Union Station was not a good fit.
PBS&J Consulting determined DOT would need 5 to 20 acres for the new station and parking, and that there wasn't enough available near Union Station.
It also concluded that using the I-4 corridor would save the DOT, and state taxpayers, tens of millions of dollars in land acquisition costs and for obtaining right of way over tracks to Union Station, which are owned by CSX Transportation.
Florida is considered by some to be a leading candidate for a chunk of the money that President Barack Obama wants to spend on 10 inter-city, high-speed rail corridors.
The state has already reserved right of way for a rail corridor along I-4 and spent more than $30 million on environmental studies connected with the proposed project.
Even if the federal government decides to fund Florida's high-speed rail system, it could be years, possibly decades, before the trains start running between Orlando and Tampa.
Union Station, which was built in 1912 and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, was in decline until city and local historic preservationists got involved.
The station underwent a $2.6 million face-lift in 1998 and expects to get $1.6 million in federal funding to improve the aging canopy over the tracks and upgrade the platform to comply with Amtrak and Americans with Disabilities Act standards.
McQuigg doesn't want to see those investments go to waste.
"This is a piece of Tampa's legacy," he said. "We don't want to see it marginalized."
Reporter Christian M. Wade can be reached at (813) 259-7679.
Sadly all trains bypass our station.
Interesting situation.
On one hand, it seems absolutely crazy to have two different passenger rail services on different parallel tracks. If Florida (and the Feds) spend all this money upgrading tracks for HSR, you'd think maybe Amtrak would piggyback on their infrastructure and use the new route instead of the old one.
On the other hand, I'm not really sure why we should care if Florida HSR and Amtrak use different stations. Logically, it seems like transfers between the two trains are a teeny-tiny percentage of passengers compared to the riders who will need transit options WITHIN Tampa at the beginning and end of their journeys.
Consequently, it seems much more important to have a streetcar or express bus that can effectively connect BOTH stations to eachother and the rest of Tampa's urban core.
Having worked on the HSR study for the Tampa-Orlando line, I can tell you that we studied this issue extensively.
In the end, there were logistical problems and significant ROW issues getting from the interstate median to Union Station (the CSX route would have allowed this but with drastically reduced speeds).
As I understand it now, land for Tampa's intermodal station has been "purchased" by FDOT in the form of the land where the old jail was.....this is adjacent to the interstate and next to HART's transfer station....the proposed light rail will stop at both Union Station and the new intermodal center, thereby providig a connection to AMTRAk.
How about Tampa's future commuter rail system? Wouldn't it end up using Union Station along with Amtrak? Does Tampa plan to connect the two?
good question....commuter rail wasn't being discussed back in 2002...but I do think it would use the existing tracks thru Ybor to Union Station
Here's an update on Florida's HSR plans...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/masstransit/florida-leaders-community-organizers-to-launch-campaign-to-win-federal/1028277
...and before anyone complains too loudly, note that Jacksonville officials are away of the planned meeting w/ LaHood....the meetying is expoected to be in ORL butr they are trying to get him to stop in Jax.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 18, 2009, 10:46:03 AM
Here's an update on Florida's HSR plans...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/masstransit/florida-leaders-community-organizers-to-launch-campaign-to-win-federal/1028277
...and before anyone complains too loudly, note that Jacksonville officials are away of the planned meeting w/ LaHood....the meetying is expoected to be in ORL butr they are trying to get him to stop in Jax.
The DOT secretary probably doesn't have a clue... The idea that High Speed Rail Trains are going to be built so that they miss the city center depots, is insane. In other country's the HSR trains use conventional track to get into and out of major cities. The trains move to and from their own private tracks at the edge of the city.
Worse still, we seem to think that HSR as an island, will thrive. If it's not connected to the Union Station in Tampa, they might as well build it on the moon. It's not hard to figure out that a train stopping in Sanford, Winter Park, Orlando Lynx, Church Street Station, and Orlando Amtrak, will do far better then a train that en trains or detrains at Orlando International Airport. Transit MUST be a connected grid for anything worthwhile. Having lived all over Orlando-Sanford-Haines City, I can tell you that in this two highway town, I'd drive to Tampa daily before I'd drive out to Orlando international Airport to catch a train west.
Tallahassee? Who is going to ride this train? It won't be the passengers from our 4 main rail corridors. Fact is, we expect to go from one poorly performing train to dozens of filled trains overnight. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Before HSR is even mentioned, a state network of short - fast - corridor trains, should be up and running, TEACHING Florida to use rail. OCKLAWAHA
Ock...I respectfully disagree....by the time HSR comes to Tampa, Union Station will be the island....all other modes will merge at the new Intermodal Hub by I-275, which is arguably closer to the heart of the CBD than Union Station.
No problem TUFSU1, I'm just betting that Tampa Union Station (TUS) is a better facility then anything the State dreams up over on the interstate. I was in TUS quite a few times and seems to me they had trains running on the through track side, right on down to Port Tampa. TUS is a beautiful station, with it's huge wrought iron concourse roof to classic railroad age interior. Until about midway into the Amtrak adventure, trains left Union station and went on around the north end of the bay. Clearwater, and St. Petersburg, were all on the Amtrak route. Amtrak, decided that NOBODY wanted to spend an extra 2 hours going around the Bay, so they cut the trains off the St. Petersburg extensions and replaced them with a bus connection. Traffic suffered from that decision for much the same reason as I think HSR will fail. It's not about 20 minutes here or there, it's not even about 2 hours here or there, it's about trips and time segments as a whole. Train leaves at XX, and get's me to _____ , at XX, THIS is the only thing a passenger is concerned with. National and international surveys have shown fast or slow, midday or midnight, steam, diesel, or electric, getting the passengers to their destination, "on the advertised" is the all powerful make or break formula. Moving out of a market of about 1,000,000 Million persons because the train is SCHEDULED 2 hours slower, makes no sense considering the average passenger has been on-board for about 22 hours. Speed or freeway close, doesn't matter nearly as much as showing up when the ticket says one will show up.
The same question has been a thorn in California's side since the highly successful San Joaquin's started rolling. Amtrak scheduled them from the Oakland/San Francisco Bay Area, south to Bakersfield. They replaced the old through train route into Los Angeles with a fleet of intercity buses. (The pre-Amtrak SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT'S #51 and #52, were affectionately known as "The Pokey," when Amtrak left the Pokey off the national map, the towns and cities all along it's route went bananas over the loss of THEIR trains). Having returned just the freeway segment, the service has boomed and today the trains roll like streetcars up and down the valley. Success? Not quite. The NUMBER ONE REQUESTED SERVICE either by the passengers or the State is the missing segment from Bakersfield - Mojave - Lancaster/Palmdale - Santa Clarita - Silmar - Burbank - Los Angeles. All the new equipment and all the freeways in the State don't equal the convenience of just staying in your seat until that train passes Mission Tower on the north end of LAUPT.
Opinion? I'm sure... but if we don't start up a state network of frequent "Florida Corridor" services first, our High Speed Rail is going to be the biggest waste in the history of transportation. I'd also bet the big "push" for HSR is coming right out of the ass end of one Mick E. Mouse. The only people that will board that thing at Orlando or Tampa's Airports are the foreign tourists, and for that stupid rodent, we'll gladly sacrifice Lakeland, Winter Haven, Tampa, or the working masses everywhere in this land called "La Florida."
NOTES:
(LAUPT= Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal)
(Mission Tower= The rail entrance to the LA station, nerve center of the west coast rail system)
(Want to HEAR what a busy corridor of freight, commuter and Amtrak sounds like? FREE? click on this link, sit back and enjoy: http://www.railroadradio.net/content/view/17/145/
OCKLAWAHA
All trains bypass our station? Not freight trains. :-)
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 18, 2009, 09:55:20 PM
All trains bypass our station? Not freight trains. :-)
Well mtraininjax, if freight trains ARE stopping at our station, then we have bigger problems then I first suspected. OCKLAWAHA
http://www.npr.org/v2/?i=112442142&m=112447146&t=audio
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112442142
QuoteNPR
Inadequate funding for Florida's Tri-Rail commuter system has raised questions for some about the state's commitment to high-speed rail
QuoteNPR
THE SOUTH
In many parts of the South, it has taken civic leaders â€" and citizens â€" a long time to warm up to the idea of high-speed rail. Not all are convinced that it's something they want or need. That indecision has set the region back in the race for federal stimulus funds. Now the Southern states, with the exception of Virginia and North Carolina, are scrambling to catch up.
While other regions have polished renderings of stations and have acquired all the land and permits necessary, in the South, state laws still hamper high-speed-rail development. For example, Alabama's Constitution, written in 1901, forbids the state's Department of Transportation to invest money in alternative transportation, including trains.
Others believe the South is too carcentric to break its ways and don't believe that a train system would be used enough to make it worthwhile to build. â€" Debbie Elliott
BINGO! I think we may get some token funding. It will be funding for track improvements, stations and such. Several industry magazines have suggested the whole program is mislabeled and thus misleading. Progressive Railroading and Railway Age, have both called it "Higher Speed Rail." It's what I said during the campaign when everybody and his brother was posting to tell me (vote) Obama, wants HSR, and I kept saying he was parroting a long time project plan from Illinois. He knows about as much about HSR as his aides have been able to force feed him since taking office.
Assuming it IS "higher speed rail" , with our history of extreme Anti-Rail Bias, just what will they give us? Maybe funds for the Florida East Coast RR... and I'd support that! 90 MPH on the FEC is something we could have had on that track in 1968. I always figured FDOT'S stupid idea of pulling funds from Tri-Rail to operate a system in Orlando, would come back to bite us in the ass. OCKLAWAHA
Amtrak has the proof their trains here fill up despite bad schedules, bad stations, no advertising and it being a car loving sprawl state. Here it is the proven, lower cost, easier to implement, provides infrastructure for new commuter rails that come after it, pre existing ROW state wide solution. This is the train lets ride it and not be too caught up in the fact that Japan has one that would win in a race. The statewide Amtrak corridor investment is the quality of life and development boost Florida should have.