Metro Jacksonville

Lighting Laura Street Plan Moves Forward

(http://metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-374-dsc_0040.jpg)

In 2006, Metro Jacksonville developed a plan called "Lighting Laura Street".  The purpose of this was to show what a little investment in a prime North-South corridor could do.  Over three years later, the plan is about to breaking ground.  Today, Metro Jacksonville takes a look at its latest success, the Lighting Laura Street Plan

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-aug-lighting-laura-street-plan-moves-forward

This sounds great! Glad this is moving forward.

Glad to see Andrew Jackson is finally getting moved to a more prominent location -- BUT, give the guy some presence already!!! Elevate him 1.5-2 stories, plumb up some misters on the top of his base, and put some vagrant-unfriendly seating at the base. Maybe Sleiman even throws a jumbotron on the outside of the Landing, and there's some chance of vibrancy. This city couldn't plan a people-friendly public space to save its life.

I like the jumbotron idea for outside the Landing. That would liven things up a little.

Is this going to be in phases? I wonder what the condition of the Street will be by Florida-Georgia weekend or by the Gator Bowl.

I used to work on Laura Street and these improvements would be nice.

Zoo, you're exactly right about the city's planning. I also find it sad that when we're faced with a budget crunch, and the city wants to pay all that money to move Jackson...please!

Something is better than doing nothing. This has a good chance of spurring other enhancements to the streetscape like the aforementioned idea and based upon the success, maybe other streets as well.

i love round abouts with a centrally featured statue.  mr. jackson deserves this more prominent location instead of being a struggling retail outlets lawn ornament.

I am glad they are finally putting a sidewalk in front of the modis building along Laura St.  You have to walk on the little sliver along the flower bed now.

Great work guys in making positive change come to fruition.

another MJ success story!

Pardon my ignorance, but where is Andrew Jackson now?  I guess that is a testament to how poorly he is being displayed right now.  I agree that raising him up a few feet would be beneficial.  You know if it's kept at 6' kids are going to try and climb all over it.  I say 8-12 with a larger podium as described earlier would be great.

At the landing

With Andrew Jackson on the move this might be the perfect chance for Sleiman to open that side of the Landing to the street. Create some outdoor dining, etc. On another note I read in the 904 Magazine that Fuddruckers is not coming to the Landing and that Peterbrooke Chocolate is not a done deal either.

Quote from: hanjin1 on August 13, 2009, 11:31:32 AM
At the landing

Still not ringing any bells.  I was over there last weekend for the Tour De Pain, but I guess I just missed the guy.

it's on the corner of Water and Hogan, right next to the Times-Union Center

at the west entry side

Ha, I found him.  I used Windows Live to finally figure it out.  I left my bag probably 30ft from him while I raced and didn't notice, shows how memorable it is.  Lift it up to at least 10 ft for sure.

QuoteOf course, they spent a lot more money that me, Lake, Lunican or Steve would have.

Well, maybe it isn't too late to save a bit with Metro Park!  ;)

I like the idea of the roundabout and feel they are completely under utilized. I also like the idea of moving the Jackson statue. I am concerned however that with the size of both the statue and it's base, along with the size of the roundabout, it could potentially be a sight line hazard to both pedestrians and vehicles.

As for the suggestion of placing a jumbotron on the outside of the Landing. While this idea fits the standard thought process we have come to expect of Jacksonville's leaders and residents. Let's not.

Quote from: stephendare on August 13, 2009, 01:21:55 PM
Of course, they spent a lot more money that me, Lake, Lunican or Steve would have.

Amen - If I have one concern, this is it.  I bet you could trim the cost of this significantly, and have the same effect on Laura St.

Now, imagine if we came to our senses, and worked with Toney Sleiman to open the Landing to Laura St, how special the opening of this could be.

I love this idea. Very awesome. With a successful plan a like this, Jacksonvile can be Jacksonville again. Let's move forward, Jacksonville!

Not a bad idea. I guess slow, steady and small improvements are good, but what does it lead to up the street? Boring federal and city buildings. Maybe they can try to put a hotel up there like it used to be.

I think once this is complete it will be even more of a no-brainer to open up the Landing.

Awesome project!  A roundabout with a big statue is exactly what we need downtown!  It will help give our city more of an identity and will make pedestrian activity near the Landing much safer!  Get this thing going!

..... I really wish Riverwatch was built.....

When the roundabout is built do the traffic signals go away?  If the traffic signals go away won't it be harder for pedestrians to cross the street safely?

The workers seemed to be out there working on it today.

Yes, a roundabout means no traffic signals.  The roundabout proponents say that ped crossings are safer - only have to look one way for oncoming traffic, the traffic is supposed to be moving slower, you only cross one lane at a time.

Independent Drive will become 2-way all the way to Newnan Street (by the Hyatt), as part of this project, too.

I've heard that someone at JEDC (Paul Crawford?) said an advantage of the Jackson-in-the-roundabout will give a good place to take pictures.  While crossing around the perimeter of a roundabout is safer, crossing into the middle is a big No-No, the traffic is always moving (well, if there is traffic).  Can you say Splat?

well, small baby steps, but at least in the right direction.

it is a nice step many of our visitors go to the landing and they will see this street as a representation of our downtown.

Has anyone thought about who is paying for this? I don't mean the lights, which I know we are, but the electricity to power ? I have no problem with enhanceing downtown, but it would seem to me that we could do it in a manner that does not cost the public money on a regular basis. Unless the Mayor is paying for it out of his pocket in which case.....go Johnny!

Isn't it a city responsibility to adequately light it's streets?  Why is it seen as a problem for the front door of the city (downtown core) but not for streets like Blanding, Edgewood, Beach or Kernan?

Text of my email to Paul Crawford 08/14

Paul,

Again, I and other downtown merchants need your assurance that as part of the Laura Street Improvement Project, benches will not be placed on Laura Street, at least between Adams and Monroe.  Benches are indicated on your Laura Street Conceptual Development Plan and the Downtown Development Review Board Conceptual / Final Review for Application 2009-13.   You have told me in the past that no benches would be installed.   Please advise.  Thank you.

Jerry Moran
Chef & Owner
La Cena Ristorante
211 N Laura St.

We do not want vagrants asserting their civil rights by loitering on the benches that will be placed directly in front of our businesses.

QuoteHas anyone thought about who is paying for this? I don't mean the lights, which I know we are, but the electricity to power ? I have no problem with enhanceing downtown, but it would seem to me that we could do it in a manner that does not cost the public money on a regular basis. Unless the Mayor is paying for it out of his pocket in which case.....go Johnny!

This is exactly the mentality that has kept Jacksonville feeling like "Cowford" compared to other major metropolitan cities of comparable size. I want the money in the city spent wisely, too, and it is questionable our leadership has that capability.

But on the flip side, I don't want to live in a City that is a time warp backwards from the rest of the U.S., and becoming more so each year, because it's population is averse to change. Investment in the quality of life assets of the City, and especially those related to the long-neglected and under-funded urban core, is critical to the future success of the entire NEFL region.

Paul Crawford replies:

Ultimately, I believe it would be healthy for our downtown to have benches on which its citizens and visitors can sit. However, I agree with you; we are not at that point and I am not sure how long it will take us to get to that point. With this being said, there will not be benches installed as part of the Laura Street Improvements. There will need to be strategic plan for the placement of benches in downtown before installation should occur and I hope to have all of the property owners and tenants included in such discussions.



Paul R. Crawford
Deputy Executive Director
Jacksonville Economic Development Commission

I am glad someone in city government finally "gets it".

Come on CS Foltz, seriously??  I'm sorry you have to pay for your own accent lighting for your palm trees in Deercreek, Deerwood, Sawgrass, or wherever,  but think for a second.  You pay for your lighting because it's in your yard and you own it.  This will light an area that the whole city will use all the time for pennies a day.....Well worth it.  Pretend like the city of Jacksonville just got a new espresso maker or something.  This is a benefit to all of us and will make OUR downtown much more enjoyable.

Well I live in Linkside at Bay Meadows.....we have entry lights front and rear, street lights which the HOA paid for and some lights which are being referb'd for a common area by volunteers. HOA pays for all electricity on a monthly basis for all of the lights.....not the city. Lighting on Laura Street is secondary to having an infrastructure in the City proper. Lights are a welcome edition but I have to ask who is paying for them? The City or the business's downtown? Since I am kinda new to this forum thought that I would ask! If the City is in such financial straits, is up lighting  an expenditure that enhances downtown or are there other more important things which should take lead to enhance downtown! Such  as parking or a place to procure food stuffs? Entertainment is third level by my standards.....and with no parking available or meters which only run for an hour there are other issue's that need to addressed first!

Jerry....benches are good for cities....dom you get it?

The way to address what I assume is your concern is to put a metal armrest (or something similar) on the bench separating the seats.....that negates the ability to lay down.

CS IMO Lighting is the most urgent cost effective way to enhance any urban area.

Quote from: CS Foltz on August 15, 2009, 07:21:00 PM
Well I live in Linkside at Bay Meadows.....we have entry lights front and rear, street lights which the HOA paid for and some lights which are being referb'd for a common area by volunteers. HOA pays for all electricity on a monthly basis for all of the lights.....not the city. Lighting on Laura Street is secondary to having an infrastructure in the City proper. Lights are a welcome edition but I have to ask who is paying for them? The City or the business's downtown? Since I am kinda new to this forum thought that I would ask! If the City is in such financial straits, is up lighting  an expenditure that enhances downtown or are there other more important things which should take lead to enhance downtown! Such  as parking or a place to procure food stuffs? Entertainment is third level by my standards.....and with no parking available or meters which only run for an hour there are other issue's that need to addressed first!

Just a question.  Does your association pay for the lights on Baymeadows?  If not, how is lighting Baymeadows any different from lighting Laura Street?

HOA's are responcible for the individual Home Owners in a specific area. COJ is responcible for lighting streets and I have no problem with lighting of streets....proven deterent for crime to take place. My issue is with the up lighting of individual bldgs rather than a post light for an area.  I have no issue with lighting but think that there are more important things to be addressed rather than lighting of a business front. Parking for instance or maybe a comprehensive plan to bring downtown up to spec for a City like ours. I have issue's with the current Administations lack of any comprehensive organized plan to revitilize downtown,improve traffice flow and add services to those who wish to live downtown. Condo's and high dollar aptartment complexes are just great for the tax base but who wants to live somewhere when you have to drive 10 miles or better to get to a grocery store?  So I am not against lighting on Laura Street....I am against a bandaid on a substandard situation. I do not care for lip service, which are the lights,when there are issue's of higher importance! One street is a start but how long has it taken to get this far? Would the forum agree this is not the only problem in downtown?

Quote from: CS Foltz on August 16, 2009, 08:09:50 AM
HOA's are responcible for the individual Home Owners in a specific area. COJ is responcible for lighting streets and I have no problem with lighting of streets....proven deterent for crime to take place. My issue is with the up lighting of individual bldgs rather than a post light for an area.  I have no issue with lighting but think that there are more important things to be addressed rather than lighting of a business front.

Understood.  However, I don't believe this plan calls for uplighting private buildings with public money.  When Metro Jacksonville made a presentation on this project back in 2006, the idea was proposed as a public private partnership.  Anything involving privately owned poperty (such as building uplighting) would have been the responsibility of the private sector.

QuoteParking for instance or maybe a comprehensive plan to bring downtown up to spec for a City like ours.

I agree.  However, I believe that ungrading the streetscape and lighting along it are improvements that help bring downtown up to spec.  Also, notice the new digital parking meters downtown?  That was also a part of the original presentation made to Suzanne Jenkins' Downtown Action Committee. 

QuoteI have issue's with the current Administations lack of any comprehensive organized plan to revitilize downtown,improve traffice flow and add services to those who wish to live downtown. Condo's and high dollar aptartment complexes are just great for the tax base but who wants to live somewhere when you have to drive 10 miles or better to get to a grocery store?

I have an issue with many of the decisions being made by leadership, but there are a couple of grocery stores in place for urban residents.  Downtown has had a Winn-Dixie for decades and the Publix in Five Points isn't that far away.  Also, the Uptown Market, on Main Street, is scheduled to open next month.  So, its no Manhattan, but there are grocery options available for urban residents that don't require drives into the burbs.

QuoteSo I am not against lighting on Laura Street....I am against a bandaid on a substandard situation. I do not care for lip service, which are the lights,when there are issue's of higher importance! One street is a start but how long has it taken to get this far? Would the forum agree this is not the only problem in downtown?

I agree that improving Laura isn't the only problem downtown.  Downtown's main problem is a complete lack of connectivity which makes it difficult to establish walkability and vibrancy.  Improving Laura (less than $3 million) is one of many things that need to be done to enhance downtown.  Now the one I really don't agree with is spending $29 million on Metropolitan Park.

I have no problem with private concerns adding up lighting to their particular business. If public dollars were being used then yes ....that would be of concern. I concur with the absence of transportation or as you put it "connectivity" from point A to point B. There isn't any and the current Administration does not appear to have any plans that are viable or cost effective. This stems from a lack of vision or as I like to say "The 5 P's"! That translates into "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance"! There is nothing at all being considered and nothing that has had any input from those who will be funding whatever takes place. Streetscape should be a viable cost effective option with maybe each area having something that is cohesive but different for each designated area. This would indicate which area one was in and relieve the signage needed, but that's just my take. Ock has the right idea as to a trolley system that would serve connectivity but that would also take fixed points at either end or ends or a loop system. Skyway type system would combine better overall coverage with least amount of traffic impact.....but that's just my take!

QuoteThe way to address what I assume is your concern is to put a metal armrest (or something similar) on the bench separating the seats.....that negates the ability to lay down.

How many time do I have to post this photo?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2612/3827108485_7539600a9b.jpg)

I don't want vagrants hanging out in front of my business, harassing my customers and fouling the area.  If any of you are interested in having a city bench put in front of your business or residence, call the City and I am sure they will oblige. They have stored a huge inventory of benches that were removed by downtown property owners and merchants.

"Lay down?"  It's hardly soft little feathers that come out of bum's asses and splatter all over the sidewalk.  Should I re-post that video too?

as I said Jerry you put a metal piece separating each seat...the pic you show above shows a bench with seating for 4 people....it should have three metal separators instead of one!

Here are two examples

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gPn1jPj3mjI/SZ-F83Ven2I/AAAAAAAABoc/x5Fii614IVo/s1600-h/bench1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gPn1jPj3mjI/SZ-F8oqUaVI/AAAAAAAABoU/mZN1zUPEk9Q/s1600-h/bench2.jpg

But if you still don't like the idea of sidewalk benches, open up shop in the suburbs....you'll have nothing but parking lots there!

QuoteBut if you still don't like the idea of sidewalk benches, open up shop in the suburbs....you'll have nothing but parking lots there!

Yeah, that's it.  Run away from a problem instead of fixing it.  Unfortunately for downtown, that's what many former residents and merchants have done, or were forced into doing.

Stephen has said it correctly...street furniture that supports a vibrant downtown is not the problem...just an excuse!

Oh, and one more thing...there is a pocket park across the street from my house and there are at least five benches there that are iften used by "vagrants"...so I'm not immune to the issue Jerry.

If you choose to tolerate squalor and filth, that's your choice.  I do not care to, and will not permit it on my doorstep.

I've got books of these benches, tables, grills, etc... Check out my favorite supplier from back in the day when I was a City Councilman. Man was THAT fun!

http://www.pilotrock.com/place_order.htm

OCKLAWAHA

I ride through downtown a lot. Two semesters ago I had a few classes at FCCJ Downtown and I rode my bike nearly every day from Riverside. I honestly can say that seperating the benches isn't going to make any drastic change. They tend to sleep anywhere, ledges, alleys, sidewalks, against buildings. Honestly I think I see far less on benches downtown as opposed to the benches every 10ft on the Riverwalk. As far as public restrooms, that's a very questionable concern. Could sway both ways, the outcomes being quit obvious.

I don't really like the public bathroom idea that much either, just because I run on the riverwalk and I go by the bathroom by the rail tracks. There are always homeless people sitting on the benches by the bathroom. I also agree that benches might not be a great idea right now. I would hold off on those until downtown starts getting more people to visit.

Quote from: CS Foltz on August 16, 2009, 09:32:49 AM
This stems from a lack of vision or as I like to say "The 5 P's"! That translates into "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance"!

Not to nit-pick, but that's 6 P's.  I'm just sayin.

I agree with Hanjin on the bathroom issue.  A few times out of necessity on long runs I had to employ the restroom on the Southbank boardwalk.  It wasn't as bad as you might think, but it was far from pleasant.  As long as there is retail or restaurants DT, I'm sure folks wouldn't mind buy a soda or candy bar to use a restroom.  The issue with the southbank was a lack of options at the time (which is still the case). 
As far as the urban outdoorsman, I'm not sure.  Is it worth it to build restrooms knowing that they would be the only ones to use them?  I too have seen that the public restrooms are a hub for them to mingle around.  I am also not for the benches with the dividers in the middle.  I think they are extremely effective, and make canoodling almost impossible.  Darn whoever installed those benches in Stinsen Park.

Quote from: Jerry Moran on August 16, 2009, 11:13:40 PM
If you choose to tolerate squalor and filth, that's your choice.  I do not care to, and will not permit it on my doorstep.

I won't permit it on my doorstep either...the problem is you and I don't own the sidewalk...its public property, available to all!

We have restrooms under Hemming Plaza, but they've been closed almost as long as I can remember.

I think public restrooms are vital to a livable urban core. I also think the answer lays with the large urban centers in Colombia, Brasil, Panama etc... hire the homeless - jobless, as attendants, 24/7. Allow tips as incentive for cleanliness. Allow small toiletries as convenience items and for profit sales. If it works in the poorest parts of Latin America, it sure as hell would work here.  

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteWe have restrooms under Hemming Plaza

- really?  Where & when?

Quote from: blizz01 on August 17, 2009, 04:50:35 PM

QuoteWe have restrooms under Hemming Plaza

- really?  Where & when?

I imagine they are still there, if I recall they are in one of the corners of the park... but I was just a kid then, the last neanderthal had just died... Maybe someone has the old design plan. I've always wondered if those restrooms may have connected to the mile(s?) of tunnels under our city.

Finding and mapping that whole system would be ultra cool.  

OCKLAWAHA

So "under" was meant literally? - That's intriguing.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 17, 2009, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: blizz01 on August 17, 2009, 04:50:35 PM

QuoteWe have restrooms under Hemming Plaza

- really?  Where & when?

I imagine they are still there, if I recall they are in one of the corners of the park... but I was just a kid then, the last neanderthal had just died... Maybe someone has the old design plan. I've always wondered if those restrooms may have connected to the mile(s?) of tunnels under our city.

Finding and mapping that whole system would be ultra cool.  

OCKLAWAHA

Those restrooms are long gone  They where under the gazebo like deal that was in the center of what use to be Hemming park. When they renovated and made it Hemming Plaza the gazebo thing went away along with the restrooms.  Approx 25 years or more ago.

I think I knew that Neanderthal, Ock ... from what I remember, they were underground on the Laura Street side of Hemming Park - midblock, not a corner (IIRC).  As far as I know, they weren't connected to any other tunnels - you mean like the tunnels that connect 3 of the four corners at Forsyth and Hogan? I would guess they were removed when they redid the park, after all, they put a fountain pool right over them.

There was also a building south side of Hemming Park, opposite Morrisons Cafeteria ("short line on the main floor") that had some visitor/ticket office, went there (pre-Ticket Master) to buy concert tickets (Steppenwolf!!!!).  And there was a tiny "booth" in the middle of the sidewalk, near Laura, where the old bus company (pre JTA) gave out schedules, and sold bus tickets and passes.  I remember going there to buy my 4¢ student bus tickets!  

Edit to Add: The gazebo was on the Hogan side of the Park, and I think it was moved to a park in Springfield.

Yes UNDER was for real. I've seen what the city has done to a few other tunnel systems and we seem to have a fairly common practice of simply filling the entry (in this case the stairs down) with debris and pouring a slab over it. If this is so, then they are still there, just as the tunnels at Forsyth or Jacksonville Terminal are still there. Funny I would have sworn they were near a corner, but now that you mention it, I remember the little "bus station" thing and all the buses surrounding the park. In fact that bus operation kept the park very fluid and full of life.

OCKLAWAHA

stephendare this is a good idea but one thing I hope the city does on this project. That most of the work is done after hours, for a lot of the why Jacksonville Downtown has a chance to come back is because of what is on Laura now? If you make it hard for Customers to park on Laura are close by don't you have a chance to kill a business or two? If you have a new design only to see no business or traffic on your new sidewalks then whats the point? The landing has been a Dog for years, but being its right on the St Johns this new project could bring it back a lot faster. Sure if most of the work is done after 5pm you will get people who live Downtown a little pissed off well unless they can't give a Little bit also I say to bad :P.

One thing that I hope they consider is the pedestrian aspect during construction.  Sometimes we forget that people still walk during construction!

I just hope it moves along quickly.

I'm glad to see this finally getting underway good deal!

Laura Street revitalization delayed, but phase one almost complete

The revitalization project is about a month behind and could cost more than expected.

QuoteConstruction continues at The Jacksonville Landing. The city project is delayed because workers have encountered bulkheads from an old wharf that needed removal along with old duct banks in unexpected places beneath the street.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-07-05/story/laura-street-revitalization-project-hits-some-snags-phase-one-almost

yep...the roundabout was supposed to be finished by the end of May....instead, it opened partially last week....of ourse, I think they spent 1 month just laying the cobblestones!

The article refers twice to "Independence" Drive - is this a silly typo or did I miss a street name change?

I would imagine the further they go towards Hemming Plaza, there should be less issues like bulkheads. The Landing area literally sits over the water, but as you head North, twoard Hemming, you get to the actual river bank. They may find old trolley lines and such, but I really hope the bigger issues will be gone. I really hope this doesn't go overbudget and stall. That would be devastating to that corridor. Lets just get it finished and I bleive everyone's complaints will go away. It is a smart project.

It will probably go well over budget.  Its one thing to do cosmetic work but once you start ripping into the ground in an urban setting that has been there for over 100 years, there's no telling what you'll find.  It would not suprise me if old tanks, tunnels, utility lines, trolley ties, brick, rubble, etc. are all found during this project.

I'm thinking the hardest work was down by the Landing...remember, the roundabout created the need for the entire roadway to be rebuilt....I think the rest of the project will jut be sidewalks and curb/gutter work

FYI....the Andrew Jackson statue will be moved to its new location tomorrow....work is expextec to start around 8am and be done by about 3pm

^^At 7:30 this morning a guy was blasting away at  where Pres. Jackson's statue is mounted to the pedestal.

yes...it took over 8 hours to unlock the statue from its base (apparently it was in there real good)....but around 5pm it was transported down the block...and by 6:30pm, it was set on its new pedestal in the roundabout

What sort of protection is there around the base to keep errant vehicles from getting up close and personal with General Andy?

when i ran by it i didn't see anything that would protect it except the 6-8 foot tall cement block it's sitting on. it is quite unreal to see it sitting there in the middle of layra street

C'mon man!  "Old Hickory" doesn't need any protection.

It is only a matter of time until someone gets a high heel stuck in one of these grooves and snaps an ankle…

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-12-09/story/city-says-laura-street-roundabout-will-be-smoother-not-smooth

City says Laura Street roundabout will be smoother, but not smooth
How much it will cost, and who is responsible, are questions still unanswered
Posted: December 9, 2010 - 12:42pm

By Timothy J. Gibbons

Drivers irritated by the rough stone bricks recently installed near The Jacksonville Landing on Laura Street will get a bit of a break next year â€" but not because of their complaints, and not as big of a change as some seek.

Problems with the material holding the stones in place has the city’s Public Works Department planning to dig up and re-lay them early next year, which should create a marginally smoother surface, similar to the one installed at other Laura Street intersections.

“It’s even rougher than it’s supposed to be,” Jennifer Savage, a spokeswoman for the department, said about the roundabout, which is designed to slow down drivers.

“The other intersections that have the cobblestones have a different grout. They’re bumper than most people are used to, but the Laura Street roundabout is even more bumpy.”

The city just recently began studying who is responsible for the problem and figuring out how much it will cost to fix. Answers are expected by the end of the year.

The department noticed there was a problem with the grout soon after the stones were installed: During rainstorms shortly after that part of the project was completed, the sandy material began to wash away.
The contractor doing the work switched to a different, more concrete-like grout for the other intersections while officials monitored the roundabout to see if the situation worsened, Savage said.

It did.

Now, the stones in the roundabout sit unevenly, creating the overly rough surface which has led to a torrent of driver complaints.

“I hate them,” said Monique Hawkins, a driver who said going over the stones had her fearing for her rear axle. “I understand what they’re trying to do, but they’re just too rough.”

What the city is trying to do is slow down drivers, creating a more pedestrian-friendly space in front of the Landing and at the intersections further up the street. Both the statue-dominated roundabout and the stones â€" properly known as Belgium block, although often incorrectly referred to as cobblestones â€" are designed as traffic-calming methods.

“It not only accommodates the aesthetic look, but accomplishes what was intended functionally,” said Paul Crawford, deputy executive director at the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, which owns the project.

“Just from standing out there and watching, we can see people put on their brakes approaching the roundabout and going through.”

Although the grout needs to be replaced, public works officials said, the uneven stones are not a hazard for drivers.

“It’s not a public safety issue,” Savage said. “It’s still safe for cars to travel over it. It’s an aesthetic and engineering problem.”

The problem is confined to the material holding the stones in place, Savage said, with the stones themselves being the ones mandated by the city.

It’s unclear exactly what led to the problem with the grout, said Bill Joyce, chief of engineering in public works. Over the next several weeks, the department will examine whether the engineer who crafted the specifications made a mistake, the contractor installed the wrong material or if the city messed up in some fashion.

Determining who’s at fault will factor into who will pay for the repairs, which would come on top of the $2.7 million already budgeted for the total revamping of Laura Street. The contract for the work does not break out the cost of the roundabout itself, but installing the stones at all of the intersections â€" about 15,000 square feet total â€" was expected to cost just over $250,000.

Making the change will add more time to the project, which was originally set to be completed Dec. 15 before two earlier change orders pushed that date back to March.

A further extension of the project, particularly in an area that had seemed finished, worries some nearby merchants, who were hard hit by the closure of the street when the work began.

“We lost business and it still hasn’t come back,” said Bonnie Maynard, manager of Coastal Cookies, inside the Landing.

While Janice Lowe, general manager of the Landing, said she’s confident the city will try to minimize the pain, she admitted “dreading” seeing workers block off the road again.

“It was devastating,” she said about the initial construction. “The impact was devastating.”

timothy.gibbons@jacksonville.com(904) 359-4103

Lol @ "studying who is the cause of problem" Lol that needs to be studied?

Will this be anything like the grating on the Mathews Bridge that took awhile to fix? Wasn't that a situation where they had to rip it up and re-do it?

Jacksonville: Land of the Do-Overs.

Can they do ANYTHING right?

Quote from: Coolyfett on December 09, 2010, 03:23:03 PM
Lol @ "studying who is the cause of problem" Lol that needs to be studied?

Yeah, aren't the same contractors just down the street a couple of blocks? lol. Dam right the contrators better fix their mistake.

It may not be the contractor's fault...as has been noted, different grout was used on the roundabout than those at the Bay & Forsyth intersections....it may have been in the specs and changed once they realized the problem.

I love it! They wanted traffic calming and sure as hell got it! Wonder if we could get some of that grout for the streetcar tracks... hee hee. "Sure Bud, you CAN drive on th-rattle-the-rattle-them-RATTLE-BANG!"  In streetcar terms it's called passive lane management.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: tufsu1 on December 09, 2010, 05:12:32 PM
It may not be the contractor's fault...as has been noted, different grout was used on the roundabout than those at the Bay & Forsyth intersections....it may have been in the specs and changed once they realized the problem.

Just saw a news report that it was changed mid-project when they noticed the problem.  They also said that the roundabout was made to spec, I imagine this will come down on the engineering firm.

The city need some c***-slapping to the face.

-Josh

I love it, slow people down. If you want a racetrack, go to Union or State street.

slowing vehicles down is fine....having the cobblestones breaking already because of the poor mortar is not.