Metro Jacksonville

Community => History => Topic started by: stephendare on August 08, 2009, 04:20:22 PM

Title: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stephendare on August 08, 2009, 04:20:22 PM
The History of Jacksonville.

Over the past few months, and especially with the insights of posters like Stjr, Ocklawaha, Heights Unknown and a few others, Ive begun to feel that its about time that a new, and far more complete history of the city and area deserves to be written.

The common history that we all accept as "The" history of Jacksonville is essentially a racist perspective, told from the point of view (mostly) of 20th century confederate sympathizers who did as much retelling as they did telling, and does not include the experience of most of the people living here. 

It is also unselfaware in as much as the various books that together create the common story begins very late, misses whole parts of what happened and does not preserve a clear picture of our cultural, intellectual or business achievements, which have been substantial.

There is too much emphasis on the Civil War and Consolidation in the various narratives of the area, both very important events, but not necessarily the most important to dwell on.

There is little to no accounting for the influences that created the city prior to 1901, largely because of the Great Fire, ---outside the retellings of the Civil War stories and mythologies--- and the areas history prior to becoming an American Territory in 1821, is almost completely ignored despite the permanent cultural and political connection with the French and Spanish settlers of the area.

As Shine points out the entire histories of the creek, seminole and black seminole Native Americans is left out and told only from the point of view of conquest, despite the fact that there are many descendants of these people living amongst us.

Most of the Early history of Jacksonville is sourced through the writings of a single man writing in 1925 at the height of the historical revisionist period.  The account glosses over or ignores major events and groups of the early history of Duval County.

And these are but a few of the more important reasons why a new History of Jacksonville needs to be written

The emergence of the land plat maps over the previous weeks has confirmed this fully in my head, for in the process of researching the new information gleaned from them I have made several surprising discoveries.

Perhaps foremost is the unintentional miracle of the Google books project.

It is a revolution in the way historical research can be done.

A few years ago, if you had a random name from a record dating from the 1800s, you were pretty much screwed if you didnt already have a bibliography of the persons life and travels.  But googlebooks has changed all that.

For those who do not know, googlebooks is a project initiated by Google to copy into a digital and searchable format ALL of the books in the libraries of the world. 

This project has been going on for a while, creating a lot of controversy in its wake.  However it has a real outcome in the area of history.

Consider this.

People leave behind a paper trail of themselves.   They buy and sell land.  They travel to other states and countries.  They win little prizes.  They are given substantial honors.  They get married.  They have kids.  They are witnesses to crimes, they file complaints.  Friends and relatives print journals and books and mention them in their memoirs.

There are hundreds of little ways that we are mentioned or recorded that it never occurs to us provide this trail of minutia.

However, now, starting about 70 years ago and working backwards through time all of these little mentions and traces are available for people who have been dead so long that no living people even know they existed.

It is possible, depending on the part of the country and which libraries have already been scanned by google to create fairly complete biographies of people that we never knew existed.  They come out of the ether like a modern pygmalion.

I learned this from dealing with the recently disovered Land Platts.   After taking the names off of the properties we ran the most ubiquitious ones on google and began to dig.

Its easier than a modern search because people who died that long ago dont have facebook pages, or a million listings on dead myspace accounts of friends who listed their names.

One of them was the name of Paran Moody, a character only briefly touched by the History of Jacksonville.   What emerged was one of the most dyamic individuals of 19th century Jacksonville.

Similarly the headstrong and lovely Elizabeth Hendricks, the creator of the City of Oklahoma on the south bank of the river.

With the cross referencing of the old jacksonville names with the french records of the House of Talleyrand, even more interesting connections came up.  F.F. L'engle, the old surveyor's full name was Francis Fatio L'engle.

A recent visit to the Old City Cemetary to find Paran Moody's grave brought the discovery of the Fatio family plot just a few yards away.  The Talleyrand's took prominence in Italy, becoming the Duc (Duke) of Dino.   They list an Alessandro Fatio as a steward of the family affairs..

Fascinating stuff.  Im reading right now of the unfortunate adventure of Senor Toledo in his intrigues in our county as he tried to work with, then double cross Napoleon Bonapartes men as they tried to take control of Florida.   Amelia Island paid the price and this Toledo fellow was a tremendous ass in all respects.  Everything he touched turned in to pure liquid shit.

The very first time this searching of the old records to create a biography happened when Bridge Troll, Stjr and I were trying to find out background information on old photos provided by Stjr of Regency.   Instead, we created a life story of a local inventor and mine owner that none of us previously guessed had ever lived.

This new ability is going to change everything I suspect.

Especially for a city like ours that lost almost all trace of its roots prior to 1901 to a fire, and whose knuckleheaded leadership has destroyed an equal amount of our heritage by razing the buildings and literally tossing whole portions of our history in the trash cans.

I think that the true story of Jacksonville is probably going to be much different than the one we presently agree on.

Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: sheclown on August 08, 2009, 07:28:04 PM
I never realized how involved Jacksonville was with the civil rights movement.  Nor did I realize that it began with a 16 year old student and member of the Youth Council NAACP, Rodney Hurst, Sr.  I just finished reading his book "It Was Never About A Hot Dog and A Coke."  WingSpan Press 2008.  I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stjr on August 08, 2009, 11:46:03 PM
Stephen, I can vouch for the ease of access to information using Google and the resources of the internet.  Almost all my contributions to the history section of MJ are fueled by Google searches of names, locations, documents, maps, images, etc. that can be done in mere minutes (though they can add up if one gets lots of "hits"!).  I would also mention as a good example my thread on historical figure Solon Robinson (see http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4638.0.html ) which began with a hit for "Jacksonville" on Google News finding a mention in an Indiana newspaper of his Jacksonville connection.

I think our understanding of the world about us will increase dramatically as more libraries and periodicals further digitize their book volumes and rare and historic documents and images and post them to the internet.  We have only scratched the surface to date.

Even though I have lived here all my life and try to stay well versed in local history, I have found no limits to the new and enlightening information revealed to me by the internet and the assemblage of same here on MJ and other web sites.  It appears to be a nearly endless source of new points of interest and connections.

An area with a history going back as far as North Florida's should have a lot more than "one definitive" history to describe it, that's for sure!
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stjr on August 08, 2009, 11:59:24 PM
I might add that someday a service such as Wikipedia may become the defacto definitive history of our world if developed to its fullest potential.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: heights unknown on August 09, 2009, 02:33:30 PM
Yeah, there is much more to Jacksonville, Florida, and the nation than meets the eye.  If we knew fully of the contributions of other races and ethnic groups, outside of the notorious white Americans, we would be shocked, surprised, and awed.  And yes, American Indians had more of a play in our history than we can ever know outside of them being conquested.  And also, black Americans were equally inventors of a lot of machines, organizations, political movements, etc. within Jacksonville and the nation as a whole. 

Though things were bad racially back then, numerous ethnic groups, had they not been here or contributed towards helping to shape our nation, America would not had been as great as it is. I often wonder what kind of nation we would have become had American Indians been conquested to the point of non-existence, or African Americans had never set foot on our soil, or the Hispanic people had remained in their own lands and never had migrated to America (Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc.).

I often think about that.  Some say it would have been a better nation for whatever reason for their opinion and thinkings; others say it would have been a bland, boring, and colorless nation without any spice in the recipe whatsoever.

Whatever has happened, we are all Americans, and we must be proud of our heritage and the contributions made to this hodge podge, rag tag, bunch of citizens that have helped to form one of the greatest nations of all time...the "United States of America!"

Heights Unknown
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 09, 2009, 03:19:30 PM
QuoteWhatever has happened, we are all Americans, and we must be proud of our heritage and the contributions made to this hodge podge, rag tag, bunch of citizens that have helped to form one of the greatest nations of all time...the "United States of America!"

Well said! :)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 06:44:33 AM
This may help... someday. :)

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-08-10/story/jacksonville_historical_society_buys_old_st_lukes_to_expand

QuoteJacksonville Historical Society buys Old St. Luke's to expand
By Charlie Patton Story updated at 6:18 AM on Tuesday, Aug. 11, 2009


Jacksonville Historical Society
The Old St. Luke's complex located on Duval Street
(http://jacksonville.com/files/imagecache/story_slideshow_thumb/editorial/images/additional/98/StLukesHistoric0811.jpg)
The Jacksonville Historical Society announced Monday it will purchase the Old St. Luke’s Hospital complex  and convert it into “a premier research and exhibition center.”


The $5 million project, which includes about $600,000 for the purchase of two buildings and 1.2 acres of land, will enable the society to consolidate its scattered archives, provide lots of exhibit space and create a place where the society can teach people how to preserve historic artifacts, said Jerry Spinks,  the society’s president. It will house the offices and library of the Southern Genealogical Exchange Society.


The property, owned by the Arthritis Foundation of Florida, is at Duval Street and Palmetto Avenue behind the Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena. It is one block from the Historical Society’s headquarters in Old St. Andrews and the adjacent Merrill Museum House, both on A. Philip Randolph Boulevard.


The three-story hospital building, constructed in 1878, was probably “the first building in Florida designed specifically as a hospital,” Richard Martin wrote in a 1973 history of the hospital. St. Luke’s moved to a new site near Springfield in 1914.


Demolition on the former hospital began in 1975 as a wrecker’s ball took down the north and south wings. But a last-minute campaign by Old St. Luke’s Restoration saved the rest of the building, which subsequently became the offices of U.S. Rep. Charles E. Bennett, who served in Congress 44 years before retiring in 1993.


The adjacent three-story building was constructed in 1882 as a factory for the Florida Casket Co.


Spinks said the old hospital building is in good shape though upgrades like a new air-conditioning system must be made in order to house the Historical Society’s archives.

Currently some of the archives are at Jacksonville University and the rest scattered in several storage facilities.


While the archives will be kept on the hospital’s second floor, the first floor will have exhibit space and a book store. That store will also sell supplies needed to preserve old family photos, papers and other artifacts, Spinks said.


The third floor is unfinished but could eventually be turned into exhibit space, he said.


The first floor of the old factory building would be devoted to programs and services designed to help teach preservations techniques, Spinks said. It would include a studio equipped to record oral history.


“We want to show folks what to keep and how to keep it,” Spinks said. “Our big mission is to make sure stuff survives so it can eventually be donated.”


The second floor would be used for archive processing and would house the headquarters and library of the genealogical society. The top floor will have 5,000 square feet of exhibit space.

The two buildings have a total of 21,000 square feet.


Spinks admitted that embarking on a fundraising campaign in the current economy will be difficult.


“But this is an incredible opportunity,” he said.


charlie.patton@jacksonville.com,
(904) 359-4413

Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 02:33:19 PM
OK history buffs... found this book in PDF format.

Colonial plantations and economy in Florida By Jane G. Landers

http://books.google.com/books?id=WFaWIDIJ1MEC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=florida+diaries&source=bl&ots=wOrIa_UuBB&sig=azqrOfygQWiZ7sU3zvvKz32ashY&hl=en&ei=JbOBSt_LHdu_tge104jOCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=florida%20diaries&f=false

Did anyone know that Zephaniah Kingsley... of Kingsley Plantation fame... also owned a very large plantation along the north west side of Doctors Lake in Orange Park?
There is a map on page 104.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
This document lists voting districts many of which I recognize... I cannot remember hearing about Hansontown or Lewisville...


(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/broadsides/BR0075.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 04:10:14 PM
Jacksonville land for sale... 1867.

(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/broadsides/BR0025b.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Dog Walker on August 11, 2009, 04:10:25 PM
[quote author=BridgeTroll
Did anyone know that Zephaniah Kingsley... of Kingsley Plantation fame... also owned a very large plantation along the north west side of Doctors Lake in Orange Park?
There is a map on page 104.
[/quote]

The current site of Moosehaven retirement center in Orange Park was also one of Kingsley's plantations or rather the plantation of his African wife, Anna Njai.  Theirs is a fascinating story and well documented by a UNF professor in a fairly recent book.  You can get a copy at the Kingsley Plantation on Ft. George Island.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 04:14:03 PM
A description of Jacksonville to people who may wish to settle here.  Wages and jobs...

(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/broadsides/BR0025c.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 11, 2009, 04:15:47 PM
The next page of previous document...

(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/broadsides/BR0025d.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stjr on August 11, 2009, 11:42:38 PM
Stephen, here is the "rest of the story" in Arlington where Anna Kingsley and her family lived and are buried and where the Kingsley's, Baxters, and Sammis's had plantations:

QuoteThe mill was operational in 1820 and was operated by the Richard family in the beginning. There was reportedly a shipbuilding venture in the Clifton area, which built seagoing vessels from timbers cut at the mill. The Richards hired an overseer for their operation whose name was John Sammis. Sammis was from New York and was married to Mary Kingsley, daughter of Z. Kingsley and his wife Anna, a princess from Africa. Another of Anna's daughters, Martha was married to another New Yorker, Oran Baxter, who was a ship builder. The Baxters lived in the area just north of what is now JU known as St. Isabel.

When F. Richard Jr. died around 1840, his will stated that his estate would be sold and the proceeds divided among the heirs. The executor of Richard's will was a man named Bigelow who became the owner of a large tract of land just north of the Richard tract. Sammis purchased some 5,500 acres and build a home in what is now Clifton and it can be seen on Noble Circle today. Richard's grandson had a home south of Pottsburg Creek and can still be seen on what is now Oak Haven Road on the north side of Atlantic Blvd. Sammis operated the mill and plantation and became a wealthy man until the coming of the Civil War in 1862. Sammis was a known Union supporter. He sold his land to a friend for a nominal fee and went to New York and Washington DC during the conflict. There is a legend from the 1800s that he buried his gold at "Tree Hill" before he left and never recovered it.

There were other grants in the "Historic" Arlington area, one to John (William) Richard (believed to be the son of Francis) who had a 250 acre farm south of Strawberry Creek in 1805; one to Peter Bagley's Heirs between "Little" Pottsburg and "Big" Pottsburg; one for 700 +/- acres to Fatio on the south shore of the St. Johns where New Castle Creek enters the river north of Ft. Caroline Road; one to George Atkinson for 400+ acres on the east bank of the St. Johns at the west end of Ft. Caroline Road; and several small grants along the river to F. Richard including Chaseville Point.

It should be noted that in general the plantation owners traded and relied on each other and with others. Kingsley's ties to Richard through his son-in-laws are well known; Kingsley had the Ft. George Island plantation and also had the St. Johns Bluff (Ft. Caroline) Grant. The community of Fulton just west of St. Johns Bluff was a combination of several grants to the Sanchez and A. Atkinson families.  There were two Sanchez grants (brothers) and there was two grants to an A. Atkinson. What is now Queen's Harbour was the "Don Juan" McQueen grant. Mayport and a large part of the beaches area was the Andrew DeWess grant.

Sammis returned after the Civil war and reverted his title from his friend. His family including the Baxters and Anna Kingsley who had acquired a small plantation called Chesterfield (believed to have been at south end of JU) near the Baxters all lived a fairly peaceful existence in what was to become Arlington considering the racial feelings of the time. Proof of their existence and history can be found in the public records and old Cemeteries. There is a very historic little Cemetery in Clifton within sight of the Sammis home, which contains both marked and unmarked graves of Anna Kingsley and her family. There is also a cemetery on Floral Bluff Road for the Bigelow family, whose mansion could be seen on River Bluff Road until it was destroyed by fire in the early 50s. The Fatio Grant contains the Parsons Cemetery and there is a small cemetery for an old black church on the JU campus. There is a black cemetery at the end of Schakelford Road near Bruce Park from the early days and also one at the Mt. Zion (Lone Star) Church near Mill Creek Road, which is still active.

From: http://oldarlington.org/MD-CP-BriefHistory.php

(http://oldarlington.org/images/Maps/CP/HM-OldArlington-1918-640x840-96dpi.png)

Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Dog Walker on August 12, 2009, 03:01:19 PM
Stephen,  Riverside had Banana and Coconut Streets too.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:17:49 PM
Here is a link to a map at the Library of Congress.  It is a birds eye view from 1840 1876... Click the link and follow the directions at the top.


http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd393/g3934/g3934j/pm001130.jp2&style=citymap&itemLink=D?gmd:2:./temp/~ammem_crzi::&title=Birds%20eye%20view%20of%20Jacksonville,%20Fla.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:25:29 PM
Here is another from 1893...

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd393/g3934/g3934j/pm001140.jp2&style=citymap&itemLink=D?gmd:2:./temp/~ammem_sxwJ::&title=Jacksonville,%20Florida.%20Drawn,%20published%20and%20copyrighted%20by%20August%20Koch.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:29:50 PM
^^ With this map and the zoom feature you may find your house in Springfield... :)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:46:16 PM
Here is a birds eye view map called The Seat of War depicting the entire south.  Use the zoom and cursor to locate Jacksonville.  This map shows Mayport in a very odd place and "Mayport Mills" near the current Heugenot Park.


http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~180~10179:-Composite-of--Panorama-of-the-Seat
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:52:40 PM
This is for Ock... :)  Here is a birds eye view map circa 1893 called Birds-eye-view of the Richmond & Danville Railroad and the Florida Central & Peninsular Systems and their connections. Check out the railroads crossing through Jax...

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd370/g3706/g3706p/rr005450.jp2&style=gmd&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3706p+rr005450))&title=Birds-eye-view%20of%20the%20Richmond%20%26%20Danville%20Railroad%20and%20the%20Florida%20Central%20%26%20Peninsular%20Systems%20and%20their%20connections.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:57:38 PM
Here is another from 1840... you will have to buy this one for a good close look however...

http://www.prestoimages.net/graphics02/8933_pd290013full.jpg
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stjr on August 12, 2009, 04:04:57 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:17:49 PM
Here is a link to a map at the Library of Congress.  It is a birds eye view from 1840 1876... Click the link and follow the directions at the top.


http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd393/g3934/g3934j/pm001130.jp2&style=citymap&itemLink=D?gmd:2:./temp/~ammem_crzi::&title=Birds%20eye%20view%20of%20Jacksonville,%20Fla.

Ate at European Street today on Park Street and a full size version of this map is on their wall in the dining area.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: stjr on August 12, 2009, 04:14:15 PM
Quote(http://oldarlington.org/images/Maps/CP/HM-OldArlington-1918-640x840-96dpi.png)

Quote from: stephendare on August 12, 2009, 08:16:18 AM
Thats a pretty freakin awesome map there stjr.

Stephen, in case you missed it, I originally featured this map and much more about Arlington's rich history from the map's web site at this MJ thread:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5636.0.html
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on August 12, 2009, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 12, 2009, 03:25:29 PM
Here is another from 1893...

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd393/g3934/g3934j/pm001140.jp2&style=citymap&itemLink=D?gmd:2:./temp/~ammem_sxwJ::&title=Jacksonville,%20Florida.%20Drawn,%20published%20and%20copyrighted%20by%20August%20Koch.

The 1876 and 1893 maps are both featured in Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage, and the 1893 Koch map is blown up on the wall in the Currents of Time exhibit at the MOSH.  If anyone happens to want a Koch map for their home, it is available on Ebay in several different sizes from a store in Oregon that sells historic maps.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
While looking at the maps yesterday they all showed a very active waterfront... Today I am looking for Pictures or articles about Jacksonville and the early shipping industry.  This picture is the perfect beginning...

The City of Jacksonville.

http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/boat202.htm


(http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/photos/boat202.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 12:54:01 PM
(http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/photos/boat207.jpg)

http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/boat207.htm
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 12:55:26 PM
(http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/photos/boat208.jpg)

http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/boat208.htm
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 12:58:11 PM
(http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/photos/boat209.jpg)

http://fcit.usf.edu/FLORIDA/photos/transprt/boats/boat2/boat209.htm
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 01:14:10 PM
Can you imagine these beautiful ships cruising up and down the St Johns?  It must have been a thrill to watch em go by and an even bigger thrill to take a trip to Palatka and back.  I also like the one of the ship alongside the virgin shores of the river... :)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 01:19:15 PM
Here is a painting of the same ship...

(http://trotter.infopages.net/images/cityofjax.jpg)

http://trotter.infopages.net/images/cityofjax.jpg
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 01:24:48 PM
City of Jacksonville

Gross Tonnage: 458
Net Tonnage:  395
Length:160 feet
Width: 32.5 feet
Depth: 6.6 feet
Built: 1882 Wilmington Delaware
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: subro on August 13, 2009, 01:38:10 PM
I think that I have seen this picture on this site before but I have always like this picture.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/king/king381.jpg

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq113/mgeary77/StJohnsRiver.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2009, 01:46:43 PM
This is pretty cool... I found this type written and scanned account of Steamboats and a scanned newspaper article of personal accounts.  A short but good read!

http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/leisure/museum/pdf/steamboats.pdf
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: urbanlibertarian on August 13, 2009, 07:29:39 PM
Thanks, BT.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Ocklawaha on August 13, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
The whole story is in a book of Steamboats of the St. Johns and Ocklawaha Rivers. It was written by Ed Muller, one-time executive director of JTA (circa 1980). Ed was a super nice guy and always wanted to hear train story's. Our books both came out about the same time, which we thought was pretty funny. I've seen copies of his works in the Book Mine, and also San Marco Book Store. Mine was listed in collector books at Amazon, where it gets a pretty wild price.

Ed and I talked about the City of Jacksonville, and he told me where most of these boats were taken to rot. Sad but the whole river fleet eventually ended up in a creek down by Palatka. At least one ended up sinking under the area of the Acosta Bridge, north piles. Another went down under the landing? or was it the Hyatt? Anyway when they built those stupid parking lots back when people shopped downtown at Sears, the city made a big thing out of a fantastic ships wheel that was located among those old docks.

FYI, Anyone with a REAL interest needs to get down to Green Cove Springs, where two fantastic COJ type river ships are moored. I understand they are fairly new and were built out at Atlantic Ship Building on Hecksher Drive. If that damn Shands bridge could come down, or at least put a lift or swing span on it, these two ships might be able to make it down to Sanford. Imagine the tourism when Disney, Sea World and Universal, all sell package flights, or train tickets to Jacksonville, hence by riverboat to Sanford, then charter bus to the parks and hotels. The boats would need two days on the water with an overnight in Palatka. Anyway, if you haven't seen these beauty's don't let them escape without a photo. PLEASE go get some photos.  


OCKLAWAHA
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: jaxnative on August 14, 2009, 10:03:07 AM
QuoteI also like the one of the ship alongside the virgin shores of the river...

That is a beautiful picture BT but I don't think many vessels like that would be able to get that close to the virgin St. Johns shoreline without an incredibly shallow draft. :)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 10:10:04 AM
Fully loaded draft was 6.5 feet... They did run aground on occasion.  Read this...

http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/leisure/museum/pdf/steamboats.pdf
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: jaxnative on August 14, 2009, 11:13:42 AM
Thanks for the info BT.  That's some interesting reading.  Wouldn't it be great to see some steamships plying up and down the St. Johns with tourists enjoying the scenery and the amenities of the vessel.

BTW, my great-grandfather was agent for the Clyde Steamship Company in the 20's and 30's.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 12:20:28 PM
Here is a PDF of the St Petersburg Times with sailing times for the City of Jacksonville.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19060505&id=P50KAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N00DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5981,1033142
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 12:48:32 PM
Wow!  Found a document from the 1910 Jacksonville Board of Trade.  This looks to be a fore runner of a Chamber of Commerce.  The document has garbles throughout which leads me to think it was transmitted via telegraph.  Tons of local factoids about Jax inticing people to move here...

http://www.archive.org/stream/jacksonvilleflor00jack/jacksonvilleflor00jack_djvu.txt

A few excerpts below...

QuoteHistory of the Board.
Organized February 7, 1884.

The first meeting held for the purpose of forming a Board of Trade in
Jacksonville met at the office of Col. John Q. Burbridge, January 31, 1884.
Colonel Burbridge presided, and Henry S. Ely, Esq., acted as Secretary.
About twenty business men attended; and, after a general discussion
of the necessity of such an organization, a resolution was formally
adopted declaring that *^the interests of Jacksonville demand the
organization of a Board of Trade."'

QuoteJacksonvilleâ€" What It Is.

Tt is a cosmopolitan city.

It has a ifopulation of about 48,000.

It is located on the noble St. Johns Kiver, which, with its tributaries,
affords 1,000 miles of inland navigation.

It has a Avater front of seven and two-tenths miles. Its area in
square miles is seven and six-tenths.

It is the gateway to Florida and the West Indies.

It is further west than any other Atlantic port.

Tt is nearer than any port north of Charleston to St. Louis and
the Northwest.

It is within a short distance of the great coal and iron regions of
Alabama.

. It has direct communication with every important city in the
United States via ten railway systems.

It has direct ocean steamship communication with Boston, New
York, I'hiladelphia and Baltimore.

It is better located than any city farther north for the trade with
the eastern coast of South America.

It has become one of the principal naval stores marts of the country.

It has a floating dock of 4,200 tons capacity (the largest private
dock south of Newport News, Va.), also two large ship yards.

It is the business metropolis of Florida.

Tt has seven banks of Avhich the combined caj^ital and suri)lus is
$2,550,000.

It has twenty-eight Avholesale groceries.

It has Avholesale and retail houses in every line of merchandise.

It has about two hundred factories, great and small.

It has ten great saw and planing mills, and sash, door and blind
factories.

The American De Forest Wireless Telegraph Company has a station
here.

QuoteThe Snntlun'u Bell Telephone has about two thousand subscribers,
and has long-distance telephone service to New York and other Northern
cities.

Its annual trade is about |1(I0,()0(),0()0.

It is a desirable place of residence, its mortality averaging ten in
one thousand â€" the lowest in the United States.

It has a delightful climate, with a mean temi)erature of seventy
degrees, and is cooler in summer than most Northern cities.

It has churches of all denominations.

It has good schools and a fine business college.

It has an opera house and other places of amusement.

It has a number of fine buildings devoted to social and charitable
purposes, viz. : Seminole Clubhouse, Benevolent and Protective Order of
Elks, Wheelmen's Club. Woman's Club, Masonic Temple, Odd Fellows
Hall, Daniel Memorial Ori)lianage, Home for Aged Women, St. Lukes
Hospital, St. Marys Home, Confederate Veterans Home, DeSoto
Sanatorium.

It has a fine i»ublic library (Carnegie's).

It will shortly have an ui»-to-date Young Men's Christian Association
Building.

It has twenty miles of trolley lines; over ten miles of brick pave-
ments; about fourteen miles of shell street and drives already constructed
and provided for by ordinance, and several beautiful parks.

It has gas and electric light plants.

It has artesian wells yielding 5,000,000 gallons of pure water daily.

It has an excellent sanitary and drainage system.

It has an efficient fire department, and a fire-ahirm telegraph.

It has excellent daily and Aveekly newspapers and monthly magazines.

It has twenty feet de])th of Avater in the St. Johns River between
Jacksonville and the ocean, with good i)rospects of having twenty-four
feet in the immediate future.

It is within thirty minutes' ride of one of the finest ocean beaches
in America.

It has the largest and most influential Board of Trade in the South.

On May 3, 1901, over 2,600 buildings in the principal business and
residence part of the city were destroyed by fire, involving a loss of
about $15,000,000.

At this date ( August, 1905) over 5,000 buildings have been or are
being rebuilt, the value of which exceeds |30.000,000.

Jacksonville prospers by the development of the State of Florida.

There is much more info... may post more...
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 12:59:06 PM
Here is some more... but I have skipped all kinds of data for brevity...

QuoteFINANCIAL DEVELOPMENT.

In the general upbuilding of the city our financial institutions have
kept pace with other lines of development.

The capital stock of all the banks in this city on December 31, 190-t,
amounted to $975,000, with a surplus of $357,000, and deposits $6,522 -
849 making a total of $7,851,849. On December 31, 1905, the total
capital stock of all the banks amounted to $2,025,000, surplus $479,259,
deposits $10,024,789, showing a net gain in the bank capital of this
city of $1 050,000, or an increase of 53 per cent, in deposits and 59 per
cent in available money to carry on the growing commerce of our city.

There have been organized four new banks during 1905, with a
capital stock of one million two hundred thousand dollars, and I will
say in this connection that the banking business is in the hands ot
careful, conservative men, and are all in a prosperous condition.

QuoteFOR 24-FOOT CHANNEL.

The dredge St. Johns is now actively engaged in deepening the
river near its mouth. The powerful dredge, owned by the Atlantic
Dredge Company, is at work on the White Shells, and the dredge
Jacksonville is temporarily out of commission, pending the installa-
tion of more powerful machinery. For the first time, and within the
past month, we are assured that vessels can go from our port to sea
drawing twenty feet of water, and with the aid of the dredges now
at work it is reasonable to assume, and we have every assurance of,
a speedy completion of the project adopted by Congress calling for
twenty -four feet at low tide from Jacksonville to the ocean. A recent
letter from Captain Shunk submitted to the river and harbor commit-
tee of this board explains in detail the progress of this work.


For Ock... :)
QuoteTHE EAST COAST EXTENSION.

Among the great events of 1905 was the beginning of the extension
of the Florida East Coast Railway from Miami to Key West over the
Florida Keys and the Gulf of Mexico. The building of this road is
one of the greatest achievements in railroad construction that has
ever been undertaken. It will no doubt be of inestimable value to
our State, and will make a trip from Miami to Key West practically
a sea tripâ€" an ocean voyage in a Pullman, and will be an unsurpassed
scenic railway trip.

For this and other developments that have made Florida prosperous
and the pleasure resort of the worldâ€" that have given employment to
thousands of peopleâ€" is due to the public spirit and enterprise of
Henry M. Flagler.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 01:03:33 PM
Have you ever heard someone say... "Welcome to Florida... now go home?

Here is the 1910 version... :D

QuoteWho Should and Who Should Not Settle in Florida.



Don't come eniptj- handed. A little capital is just as necessary to
get a start in Florida as anj'where else.

Don't come if jon are doing well where yon are. Florida is no
place for discontented folks.

Don't come expecting- to find a country wh.ere you can live with
little or no work, unless you have an income that will support 30U.

Don't come if you are out of a job and can't get one at home. If
you can't find emplojiuent where you are known you will not be likely
to find it among strangers.

Don't come if you are a semi-invalid, hoping to earn enough to pay
expenses during the winter and then return to the North in the spring.
Florida is full of such deluded unfortunates.

Don't come if you are merely the "promoter" of a ''splendid business
scheme," with the expectation of finding captialists ready to put up
the cash against your "experience" and pay you a fat salary- as a
manager of the company.

Come if you have capital to lend or invest in any legitimate manu-
facturing enterprise.

Come if you are plucky and energetic, and know how to embrace an
opportunity when you see it. Come if you like a mild climate better
than a cold one â€" a good "all-year-round" climate.

Come if you are willing to assist in developing the wonderful
resources of the State and become a permanent citizen.

Come if you are a horticulturist, vine grower, truck gardener, or
a good mechanic.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 01:11:53 PM
There are adds from local vendors of the day... here is a small sample.

QuoteIt's Up to You

To increase the demand for your candies. That is easily
done if you \vill only keep our high-grade
Peanut and Cocoanut Brittle

!n 25'Pound Boxes, Assorted.

Order through your jobber or direct

from us. We Manufacture and Carry a Full Line

Stick Candy, Mixed Candy, Penny Goods, CiioGola^es and

Pacl(age Goods.

Send for Price List.

THE E. J. SMITH CO.,

Jacksonville, Fla.



JACKSONVILLE GROCERY COMPANY

WHOLESALE



Grocers' and Distillers'
Supplies.

W. J. HARRIS, MANAGER.

Office and Waretiouse Viaduct A. C. L R'|,

JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA.


Cbe Elgin Butter Company OF FLORIDA.

U iJ WHOLESALE DEALERS IN iJ ii Butter and â,¬bee$e.

Office, 718 W. Bay St. Cold Storage, 752 W. Bay St.

JACKSONVILLF, FLORIDA.



WILKISON ^_SPILLER

FANCY GROCERIES IMPORTED SPECIALTIES

OUR MOTTO :

Not Lowest Price, but Best Goods.
327 WEST BAY ST.


American Produce Co.

FLORIDA'S LARGEST AND BEST FRUIT AND PRODUCE HOUSE.

CONSIGNMENTS SOLICITED.

16 South Hogan St„ JACKSONVILLE, FLA.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 01:27:15 PM
For you Fire history folks...  I never knew the Prime Osborn nearly burned to the ground...

http://www.jacksonvillefiremuseum.com/

(http://www.jacksonvillefiremuseum.com/Train%20Station1.jpg)
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: subro on August 14, 2009, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 12:48:32 PM
It has a delightful climate, with a mean temi)erature of seventy
degrees, and is cooler in summer than most Northern cities.

This makes for a great read but the cooler summers line is a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 02:47:06 PM
JACKPOT!!!!  Great website with many accounts and pictures of riverboat life on the St Johns river.

I give you...

PADDLEWHEELERS ON THE ST JOHNS...

Enjoy!

http://www.cowart.info/Monthly%20Features/Paddlewheel/Paddlewheelers.htm

Quoteby

Virginia M. Cowart

SUMMARY

              When we think of paddlewheel steamboats, most of us picture the great Mississippi River boats. Mark Twain formed the mental picture most of us envision. Or we think of "Fulton's Folly" churning the waters of the Hudson.

              But the paddlewheelers played a major part in the economic development of Jacksonville.

              "Prior to the opening of railroads along the banks of the St. Johns a fleet of approximately 150 steamers carried freight and passengers on the river and its tributaries. These vessels made daily trips and during the peak period carried nearly 100,000 tons of freight each week. The aggregate of these vessels amounted to about $5,000,000. The U.S. Census of 1880 recorded that there was a larger fleet of steam vessels carrying passengers and freight on the St. Johns than on any river south of the Hudson in New York".(01)

              Jacksonville's steamboats earned renown.


QuoteWilliam Maierfeldt of Orange Park recorded a few such memories:

              "You should not be surprised when getting aboard," he wrote, "To see a 12 foot alligator tired down on a 12 foot board" lashed to the deck. Oskey's, a store which catered to tourists wanting souvenirs of Florida, bought gators to transform them into handbags, shoes, belts, or suitcases.

Cargo overflowed the lower deck
(http://www.cowart.info/Monthly%20Features/Paddlewheel/images/clip_image008.jpg)

              Other deck cargo included wicker baskets of bread from the Rosenbush Bakery in Green Cove Springs, crates of live chickens (which sold for 50¢ each while eggs sold for 10¢ a dozen) tied-up pigs, and even hobbled horses or cattle.

              Of the live cattle transported aboard the river boats, Maierfeldt  said, "In most cases they were more wild than tame and it was some kind of problem to drive them onto the dock and into the steamer, and you can rest assured there were no passengers on the lower deck for the rest of the voyage... I can recall some of them had brass knobs on the ends of their horns to keep from running their horns thru a person -- not that the knob did much to lesson(sic) the danger".(13)

              These cows sold for $18 per head.

              "Milk was sold to the customer for 5¢ a quart, being ladled direct from a 5-gallon container by dipper."(14)

              "I do recall catfish brought two and a half cents per pound on the hoof. If the fisherman skinned the fish he got a few cents more per pound".(15)

              "These prices would seem ridiculous by today's comparison, but money in those days was real money and a man with one dollar in his pocket was considered a long way from being a pauper".(16)


Quote"Early accounts of the steamboats give the impression that the passengers were largely lushs-- the bar was the most popular place on the ship". Whiskey sold for as much as 20¢ a drink ... "A steamboat operator could almost break even on the proceeds of the bar and dining saloon, even at 50¢ for a five-course dinner... Boats that carried two to three hundred passengers could make 100 per cent profit at the normal fare of $1.50. Annual profits of 70 per cent were not unusual, and one line paid a dividend of 6 per cent a month".(23)

Quote"The river teemed with craft which, according to a report of the County Commissioners published in 1885, numbered seventy-four vessels totaling 8,168 registered tonnage, with estimated value of river commerce of $2,042,000. This was claimed to have been the largest tonnage of any inland local traffic south of the Hudson River. The estimated value of vessels and cargoes arriving and departing from Jacksonville was $38,270,000 in 1882. Among the articles of commerce mentioned are 37,440 bales of cotton, 68,041,548 feet of lumber and 316,800 crates of fruit and vegetables. In 1885, Duval was sixth in the state in the production of oranges".(57)

QuoteOn May 7, 1874, parents, teachers and children from the Newnan Street Presbyterian Sabbath School took an excursion trip aboard the Florence:

                At 9:00 punctually... many friends were assembled on the deck of the beautiful FLORENCE which through the kindness of Captain Brock having placed her at our command for the day... At the last sound of the whistle the swift-winged FLORENCE dashed from her wharf and soon a beautiful floral city lingered on the vision only as a dream. Billows, hamlets and groves passed by as things of life and they were soon lost to view on deck and cabin. Innocent merry hearts with song and shout were making melody such as angels might approve... Even the gallant purser caught the infection and proved by his fascinating devotion as deft in the use of honeyed words and bewitching glance as with cash and ledger...

                Nor was the conclusion (of the trip) unworthy of the occasion... amid innocent mirth there was the old, young and gay and with many expressions of thanks to Captain Brock... with grateful acknowledgments to the Giver of all good, returned to our happy homes as contented a picnic party as ever had been on the advent of May.(59)


QuoteNot all trips went so well.

              On the Fourth Of July that same year, the St. Johns Shooting Club "patriotically moved and socially inclined" rode the Florence to Mayport and a short way out into the ocean.

              That was a mistake:

                Dinner was announced and the hungry crowd sat down to the well spread table. Hardly through the first course and well on to the second course when the steamer struck the first heavy swell. All smiled languidly and looked brave and one ferocious member of the club who had traveled called vigorously for the coconut pie. It was no use, swells succeeded, lips grew white and even brave shooting men... had sudden business with the captain. After pitching and rolling for some few minutes and the rain coming down not hard but persistently, the south beach and surf bathing was abandoned and a return to Mayport voted.

              But the day was not a total loss; on their return to Jacksonville, the passengers enjoyed watching fireworks over the city from the deck of the Florence.

                From the center of the stream the display was rendered beautifully and too much praise could not be awarded... The program was one that would reflect credit on a much larger city than ours.(60)


Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
This website has everything... hours of Jacksonville history.

http://www.cowart.info/
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 03:14:29 PM
Some of you will remember this... please add some personal stories...

JACKSONVILLE’S BAY STREET

Or

Life On Sleazy Street

http://www.cowart.info/Florida%20History/Bay%20Street/baystreet.htm

Quoteby

John W. Cowart

My Mother warned me not to walk on Bay Street.

"I'd better not ever hear of you going on Bay Street," she said.

This was in the early 1950s when I was about 12 years old.

Back then, to a boy, "Downtown" meant the strip of movie theatres on Forsyth Street. There every weekend double features played at the Imperial, Empress, Palace, or Florida theatres.

For a nickel each my buddies and I could ride the bus from our homes in Southside and spend the day watching a cowboy named Bob Steele shoot up bad guys.

On Friday nights, we'd walk across the Main Street Bridge -- the rich aroma of the Maxwell House Coffee plant hanging in the air -- and we'd hang over the rail to look down on schools of porpoise at play in the river.

Sometimes, destroyers would be tied up beside the bridge and we would talk with real live sailors as they chipped paint or hung out their  laundry on deck. Once one of them threw my buddy David Bryant a sailor cap! Wow!

Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Dog Walker on August 14, 2009, 03:39:42 PM
You could walk along Bay Street in those days and in the stair wells that went upstairs over the bars were posters that said, "These premises off limits to members of the U.S. military."  My Dad got all red in the face when I asked him why sailors weren't supposed to go into those places where the pretty ladies were.
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 03:43:15 PM
The beginning of the end... for public transportation in Jacksonville.

Jacksonville’s Motorcar History

http://www.cowart.info/Florida%20History/Auto%20History/Auto%20History.htm

Quoteby
John W. Cowart

Blame undertaker Charles A. Clark the next time you circle block after block looking for a parking space.

Think of him as you creep along bumper to bumper â€" in the rain, late for an appointment, with rude drivers honking at you and LOT FULL signs mocking you.

It’s all his fault.

Charles A. Clark is the man responsible for your frustration.

He started it all.

On January 4, 1900, Mr. Clark chugged into downtown Jacksonville in his brand new Locomobile, a Stanley No. 2 â€" the first factory-built motorcar in Florida. Our city has not been the same since.

Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: DavidWilliams on September 01, 2009, 08:30:28 PM
How is it possible to write a "new" history?
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: DavidWilliams on September 01, 2009, 09:23:45 PM
I am fascinated by the history of Jax since the early 1900's (the great fire era). What is the untold element?
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Ocklawaha on September 02, 2009, 12:27:53 AM
(http://www.trombinoscar.com/usanordest/lo260105.jpg)
1909 Locomobile

Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 14, 2009, 03:43:15 PM
The beginning of the end... for public transportation in Jacksonville.

Jacksonville’s Motorcar History
Quote

by
John W. Cowart

Blame undertaker Charles A. Clark the next time you circle block after block looking for a parking space.

Think of him as you creep along bumper to bumper â€" in the rain, late for an appointment, with rude drivers honking at you and LOT FULL signs mocking you.

It’s all his fault.

Charles A. Clark is the man responsible for your frustration.

He started it all.

On January 4, 1900, Mr. Clark chugged into downtown Jacksonville in his brand new Locomobile, a Stanley No. 2 â€" the first factory-built motorcar in Florida. Our city has not been the same since.


Just a fun fact, the Locomobile company and the Stanley Brothers were in business together in 1900, but then split up. Locomobile, White Steam Car Company, and Stanley, each went their own good ways. The Stanley brothers might have kept GM out of the game, had they ANY sales or marketing talent. They were notorious for scolding car buyers or owners for this or that little problem with the product. I know of at least one case where they had sold the car, the new owner couldn't get the pilot light, fuel sequence down, so they told him he was an idiot and took the car back! It's a shame, because their product was so good that hundreds are still with us today. I have an acquaintance in St. Augustine that has a mint condition Locomobile in the garage, 1909 I believe. It has the little round windsheld and looks much like the Stuz Bearcat used in the movie "Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid."

OCKLAWAHA
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: DavidWilliams on September 02, 2009, 10:11:13 AM
Quote from: stephendare on September 02, 2009, 09:46:20 AM
For bonus questions.

Where was Oyster Shell Road?

quote]

Kings Road?
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: jaxnative on September 03, 2009, 09:44:27 AM
QuoteWhich Jacksonville Mayor presided over a police force that was primarily african american prior to the great Fire.

Raymond D. Knight
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: jaxnative on September 03, 2009, 01:02:26 PM
Steven, wasn't there a Bridge Street at one time?  Is that now Broad?
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Bill Ectric on March 18, 2010, 04:29:25 PM
I'm with you, Stephen, it's a great idea!
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Jaxson on March 18, 2010, 06:36:14 PM
I think that Main Street used to be called Pine Street, right?
Title: Re: A New History of Jacksonville?
Post by: Jaxson on March 19, 2010, 11:44:26 AM
Thanks, Stephen!