Metro Jacksonville

Elements of Urbanism: Pittsburgh

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/592817494_9rfty-M.jpg)

Metro Jacksonville explores another riverfront city that is dominated by a unique collection of urban neighborhoods: Pittsburgh.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-aug-elements-of-urbanism-pittsburgh

One of the coolest things about Pittsburgh's Convention Center is the man-madewaterfall stream that runs underneath the building connecting the downtown to the river (since the building blocks the view)...got any pics of that?

Also, don't mess with the Cathedral of Learning :-)

"Located on the north side of the Allegheny River, this district is the home of Heinz Field (Pittsburgh Steelers) and PNC Park (Pittsburgh Pirates).  Today, the neighborhood is a hot spot for urban infill taking over massive surface parking lots that surround the sports facilities.  Major construction projects include a new light rail subway extension to serve the district and a casino."

You said it Ennis.  Here is the vision for our own North Bank District.  With smart infill growth, our Jax Municipal Stadium, Baseball Park, Metro Park and Arena could become the driving force behind economic growth in this part of downtown.  Anchor it with a streetcar or skyway extension, drop in a museum, hotel, residence tower, retail and restaurants on the Shipyards site, make Metro park part of the neighborhood, infill the parking lots around the stadium, tear down the dissecting expressway and BAM! Look at the tax base explode on what is now nothing.  This area has the potential to really become a destination spot.  Think about it...we wouldn't have to black out Jaguars games, sold out baseball games, an arena with more than 10 big name concerts a year, outdoor concerts on the river, etc. 

Again, we always come back to the same issue.  How come Pittsburgh doesn't make excuses for stopping development in its urban core?  How can recent pictures show big projects being built when all we hear around here is project death and doom.  It comes down to mass transit, strategic infill and connected areas, something our city leaders just don't understand.  There is no vision and obviously no support or encouragement for developers.  And I'm not talking money, because as we have seen numerous times, just handing out money doesn't get things done.  I want a real plan for this area and it has to make you say, "WOW!  Welcome to the Bold New City of the South!"  This city needs to grow a pair.  ;)

Tufsu, thanks for sharing.  I think the link below is what you are talking about.  Our new convention center on the river could have something that embraced the river as well.  That would be pretty cool.

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/1173049.jpg

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 05, 2009, 09:12:06 AM
One of the coolest things about Pittsburgh's Convention Center is the man-madewaterfall stream that runs underneath the building connecting the downtown to the river (since the building blocks the view)...got any pics of that?

Also, don't mess with the Cathedral of Learning :-)

Unfortunately, no.  That area was closed off for a construction project the couple of days I was there.

In regards to what Brainstormer said about the area around the stadium...

My family is from a suburb north of Pittsburgh, and my dad spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh. When me and him went to the Jaguar/Steeler playoff game a couple years back he was amazed by the area around the sports complexes. He said it was an area you didn't go to unless you were going to a game, and said he would have never before parked where we ended up parking (which was a parking lot for a new condo). The face lift the new stadiums gave the area really helped bring in a commercial aspect supported by games, which branched out further to include condos and everyday bars and restaurants.

My family moved from the area in the 80's shortly after I was born when a lot of the jobs left, but the city has done a good job of rebounding and accepting new industries to become successful again.  

QuoteCity Population Growth from 2000 to 2008

Pittsburgh: -24,526
Jacksonville: +72,312

Yeah, they all moved to Jacksonville!

They moved somewhere; Pittsburgh has lost over half of it's population since the 1950's...Tampa is now bigger than Pittsburg in population.  I guess the steel mill closings has a lot to do with the great big loss of population, but it seems that the main infrastructure, and many of the old buildings and artifacts have remained intact and are in excellent shape despite the people flight from Pittsburgh.  Don't think I'd want to live there.

Heights Unknown

Jacksonville has suffered the same problems with population loss, but it has been concealed by consolidation.

Quote from: Jason on August 05, 2009, 09:40:23 AM

QuoteCity Population Growth from 2000 to 2008

Pittsburgh: -24,526
Jacksonville: +72,312

Yeah, they all moved to Jacksonville!

I can see this as a possibility.  Ever been to the Steelers/ Jags game? Half the stadium is black and yellow.  Come on Football Season!

Right on Lunican!  Our growth has not been in what I consider the city of Jacksonville, it has been in the outlying areas which in most other metro areas are independent, attached suburbs.

And Lucas, your dad supports my point.  All of a sudden the area is a destination area, not just on game days.  Would you go back there just to eat at a great restaurant on say a Wednesday night?  Just having dinner near the stadium is exciting even for a non-fan.  Image imprinting is constant and pretty soon, you think, hey I should go to a game sometime.
Plus attending a concert or sports event is so much more than just driving in, parking, attending, and then driving home. Jacksonville has not harnessed the potential our stadium area has and we are suffering because of it.  It shouldn't just be about going to the game.  The surrounding neighborhood should be inviting and create a vibrant atmosphere.  It should encourage people to come early and stay late.  How sad that the lone sports bar in our stadium area is only open when events happen.  Right there shows we have failed.

Largest LEED convention center in the world, for now. Nashville's will take the title when it opens in 2013.

Oh, and brain, most of the growth outside of the city has been in unicorporated Clay and St. Johns Counties, not much within actual cities themselves. Even with that said, from 1990 to 2000, the city ballooned by almost 100,000 people.

Oh, and Captain, I was at an Arizona Cardinals game in 2007, and half the stadium was Steelers fans. Safe to say, they're all over, to escape the atrociousness that is, as I've heard it called, Shittsburgh.

I am one of those in black and yellow. I do have to give credit though to Jag fans for the playoff game in Pittsburgh. It was nothing like the amount of Steller fans that are at Jaguar games, and many other stadiums for that matter, but there was more teal there than I expected. Some of the people near us that were from Ponte Vedra even said they were going to New England the following week.

Quote from: brainstormer on August 05, 2009, 10:16:10 AM
It shouldn't just be about going to the game. The surrounding neighborhood should be inviting and create a vibrant atmosphere. IT should encourage people to come early and stay late. How sad that the lone sports bar in our stadium area is only open when events happen. Right there shows we have failed.

One of the sports bars that has really helped the area around Heinz field is Jerome Bettis' Grille 36. If Jacksonville could have a player to attach to open up something around the area, it could it help attract people for more than just a game. If Fred comes back to this area, or if Tony and Mark weren't just into What-A-Burgers, they could have this affect.

I think the Image Imprinting aspect of developing around the stadium is a great point.  I went to Auburn, AL (of all places) and ate in the shadow of their stadium, which was really neat.  Just thinking about what goes on around game day in that area made the whole meal that much more exciting.  I'm going back this fall just to relive the experience and go to a game this time.

Boston does a good job of this around Fenway. They even have a sports bar built into the outfield wall. The area is fenced in and coverd by a door during games, but allows you to sit at high tops right at the edge of the field on off days and before games. They also have several other places to eat and drink on the outside of the stadium. Even on an off day in the early afternoon, many of the places were being patronized.

Add another city to the list whose convention center dwarfs Jacksonville's...

Yeah, and Pittsburgh's population doesn't really justify having that large of a convention center.  There are cities with population of 400K or more that don't have Convention Centers that large, but the fact that Pittsburgh has "got it together" relative to its image, popularity, and long standing history as a business city probably justifies it having a convention center that large and people from outside the area will still hold events and conventions there.

Heights Unknown

Quote(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/592818468_cMEoo-M.jpg)

This sidewalk, connecting the Northshore with Downtown, is attached to an I-279 bridge.  Should the same be considered for Jacksonville's Fuller Warren, Hart or Matthews Bridges?

I made exactly this point in the face of naysayers at the MJ thread on the Fuller Warren Bridge.  This picture proves my point explicitly - IT CAN BE DONE!

P.S.  I just cross posted it on the Fuller Warren thread at http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4347.msg89418.html#msg89418 for more comment if desired.

Quote from: heights unknown on August 05, 2009, 03:15:07 PM
Yeah, and Pittsburgh's population doesn't really justify having that large of a convention center.  There are cities with population of 400K or more that don't have Convention Centers that large, but the fact that Pittsburgh has "got it together" relative to its image, popularity, and long standing history as a business city probably justifies it having a convention center that large and people from outside the area will still hold events and conventions there.

Heights Unknown

Well said, Heights...  Kind of makes you wonder why a new convention center isn't the #1 priority for Jacksonville doesn't it?

Stupid, stinking, bald headed and ugly leaders...that's why we can't build a good size convention center and lure good conventions and convention type events to Jacksonville.

Heights Unknown

Did I miss something? Winn-Dixie isn't on the fortune 500 list?

Its not "Downtown".

Oh, I missed that "Downtown" part, thanks Jason!

Quote from: ralpho37 on August 05, 2009, 09:55:42 PM
Well said, Heights...  Kind of makes you wonder why a new convention center isn't the #1 priority for Jacksonville doesn't it?

I'll give you one really BIG reason....because virtually no convention center makes money....they almost all bleed red ink.

Now, I clearly understand that they often spur nearby development, with increased revenues and thereby taxes.....but care to wager on how many of the "conservative" folk in Jax. will see it that way.

They will not, I guess the best and most feasible situation is have new convention center(doesnt have to be a grand one)but located near the old courthouse near the Hyatt. Money will always be an issue.

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 06, 2009, 09:13:55 PM

Quote from: ralpho37 on August 05, 2009, 09:55:42 PM
Well said, Heights...  Kind of makes you wonder why a new convention center isn't the #1 priority for Jacksonville doesn't it?

I'll give you one really BIG reason....because virtually no convention center makes money....they almost all bleed red ink.

Now, I clearly understand that they often spur nearby development, with increased revenues and thereby taxes.....but care to wager on how many of the "conservative" folk in Jax. will see it that way.

QuotePittsburgh: From grime to glam

PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Just 10 years ago, you couldn't mention the words "posh" and "Pittsburgh" in the same sentence without a collective laugh. Not anymore.

The Pennsylvanian city is not the soot-filled place that many people think it is. Closed mills and clear skies have yielded beautiful neighborhoods that feature great shopping and even better dining.

Once the security details from this week's G-20 Summit clear out of the city, visit Pittsburgh and make sure to stop in some of these trendy neighborhoods.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/09/24/pittsburgh.neighborhoods.travel/index.html