From Backpage Editorial in Folio Weekly:
QuoteShould rails come up the FEC tracks into the city, it would be a natural choice to finally act on creating the intermodal transportation center at the Prime Osborn Convention Center. This project has been stalled for nearly a dozen years. Instead of detraining to a cramped hole-in-the-wall on the city's Northside, travelers from up and down the Eastern Seaboard and beyond would be able to access downtown retailers, restaurants and hotels. It should be a Chamber of Commerce dream to see visitors coming directly into the heart of the city to spend their time and money........
Allowing stimulus money to enhance the rail infrastructure would also be a golden opportunity to set the stage for commuter rail on the Southside. It is doubtful that there are many people who think that I-95, Philips Highway or Southside Boulevard don't have enough traffic during the daily commute. And, with more people coming into Duval from St Johns County, it would be just as sensible for them to also hop a train to work.
We don't have to build the whole JTC immediately. It would do us wonders just to get the Amtrak portion funded as a part of the FEC corridor project, if it goes forward.
Lets hope the council, chamber and mayor's office can finally jump on board and support this thing PUBLICLY!
While, their support may not critical to moving this plan forward, it would not hurt to rally around ideas like this.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 04, 2009, 02:59:01 PM
We don't have to build the whole JTC immediately. It would do us wonders just to get the Amtrak portion funded as a part of the FEC corridor project, if it goes forward.
Lets hope the council, chamber and mayor's office can finally jump on board and support this thing PUBLICLY!
While, their support may not critical to moving this plan forward, it would not hurt to rally around ideas like this.
"...and this just in from City Hall ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!"OCKLAWAHA
Remember that the JTC at the Prime Osborn doesn't have to mean INSIDE the Prime Osborn....the current plans would still suffice and would likely be moved up the FDOT and NFTPO priority lists if the Amtrak/FEC thing happens.
As for the City, maybe we could use some of the $100 million BJP transit money to jump-start the project....but that might be at the expense of streetcar.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 04, 2009, 03:35:55 PM
Remember that the JTC at the Prime Osborn doesn't have to mean INSIDE the Prime Osborn....the current plans would still suffice and would likely be moved up the FDOT and NFTPO priority lists if the Amtrak/FEC thing happens.
Here is a very telling closing paragraph in the backpage editorial:
QuoteAs it is now, Florida is the largest state in the Union that does not have a working relationship between its Department of Transportation and Amtrak. Look no farther than North Carolina to see how a state DOT can make intrastate and interstate an affordable option, while helping to maintain stations. It is up to Floridians to ask FDOT and local leaders to enter into similar partnershops with Amtrak.
Henry Flagler is a legend in Florida because his railroad helped make our state what it is today. His historic route can help make our state what it can be tomorrow, if we have the same vision he once had.
John Louis Meeks Jr. is chairman of the social studies department at Mayport Middle School and a longtime rail passenger.
QuoteIt is up to Floridians to ask FDOT and local leaders to enter into similar partnershops with Amtrak.
The amount of support the Amtrak/FEC project has generated proves that Floridians are doing their part. Jacksonville needs to make sure we have done everything possible on our end to benefit locally from it. Bringing Amtrak back downtown is one of those things that makes sense for us, FDOT and Amtrak.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/598708396_9SuZR-600x1000.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/598708417_HmkJT-600x1000.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/598708437_5ELwD-600x1000.jpg)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jacksonville-to-miami-passenger-rail-returning
I received an email from a city council member whom I asked to support a similar resolution That said it is not in the CC's purview.
Pur⋅view
/ˈpɜrvyu/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pur-vyoo] Show IPA
Use purview in a Sentence
â€"noun
1. the range of operation, authority, control, concern, etc.
2. the range of vision, insight, or understanding.
3. Law.
a. that which is provided or enacted in a statute, as distinguished from the preamble.
b. the purpose or scope of a statute.
4. the full scope or compass of any document, statement, subject, book, etc.
Priceless.
That's horrible. However, it illustrates what the problem is with council in general.
Council and Commission representatives in places like St. Augustine, Palm Coast, Ocean Breeze Park, Seawall's Point and Hypoluxo get it but the those representing the largest municipality in the state are too clueless (according to the definition of purview) to understand? Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Sad and hilarious at the same time. ::)
THE WHOLE COUNCIL IS ASLEEP Y'ALL! Where is our Glorious? This is a copy of my correspondence with our leadership:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO: Jacksonville City Coucil Member:
Please introduce the Resolution of support to re-start passenger rail services on the FLORIDA EAST COAST RAILWAY. The Railway that built Eastern Florida, has already been funded at the State Level. It was put on hold during the Bush administrations Amtrak Freeze.
This might be our best shot at restoring service to downtown Jacksonville, and once again being the "Gateway City" to all of Florida.
Funding our Streetcar Study at JTA, and using the BJP funds to build the streetcar starter system would push us to the front of the pack. As many of you know, I'm a retired Transportation Consultant, and I'll be glad to talk with any of you Pro-Bono on the subject. We stand at a very important junction and we simply must make a stand.
Sincerely Ocklawaha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. OCKLAWAHA,
Thank you for your email, though the City does not have direct purview over Amtrak's decisions.
Clay Yarborough
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Yarborough:
Of course you are correct that the City does not have "direct purview" over Amtrak's decisions, however, as the City does have "purview" over the Prime Osbourne and JTA plans for Jacksonville Transportation Center. By issuing a resolution of support we join the other Florida Cities up and down the East Coast of the state in letting Amtrak and FDOT know that we too think this is a good idea. Adding trains not just to Jacksonville but to our historic Terminal downtown could turn this into an economic development engine. Amtrak already plans to split these trains in Jacksonville for each coast of Florida, but they are woefully short on space in their current location. Letting them know that we will be supporters of Amtrak and our downtown Terminal positions us for an economic boom. Splitting trains involves switching and servicing of train cars and that equates to more highly paid jobs in Jacksonville. Please give me a call if you have any questions.
OCKLAWAHA----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has Mr. Yarborough responded? Most would agree that helping to bring Amtrak back downtown is more important to our community than banning the Folio out of the public library.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/RAILROAD%20Depots%20and%20Stations/blank555.jpg)
Lakelander, Yes, the above is his one line response. No other Council member has so much as given me a call on this.
Glorious wanted to meet with us, but I'm not sure it's on this subject.
As for the city with the most to gain from a massive State and Federal rail passenger expansion, we are playing dumb. (Correction: Perhaps we are dumb as a bucket of nails). If this were a French Battery Plant, Alena Aircraft, JIA or Bridgestone, the Council and our Chamber would be all over it. Yet this represents an economic engine proved to expand Cities in the $BILLIONS of dollars range, and we ignore it. Once upon a time we owned the Railroad Passenger Industry in the entire Southeastern USA. The shell is still there, just waiting for the meat to arrive, and our Chef has gone to lunch!
Again and Again I have made the statements that NO HIGH SPEED RAIL is going to ever happen here, and if it does, it will never be successful until we retrain the now generation to use trains. That "training" MUST be done with State sponsored Amtrak, and Regional Rail, as well as Commuter Rail commitments. Gainesville and Tallahassee are both ripe targets for a regional "scoot" service. The Florida East Coast is the freaking golden ring on the merry-go-round and it's about to be pulled. The Gulf Wind is coming back (NOL-JAX), The Palmetto could come back (NYC-JAX), and direct midwest - Florida services could come back with Georgia's involvement. The only response from the state is more Freeways and ignorance. Sadly this is going to cost us big... really big...HUGE! Jacksonville is the leading bastion of "Rail Hate" in this state, which seems to be the leading highway lobby money vortex. Think it's just me? Check this out. QuoteQuote from Miami Today: http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/090806/story4.shtml
Bigwigs such as Mr. LaHood and Vice President Joe Biden have said they see potential in a high-speed train here.
But it's become clear a lack of concrete support at the state level could derail the effort.
Local legislators in Washington "all expressed support" for a state bid for high-speed rail, and the US transportation secretary says Florida has a shot, said Humberto Alonso, the chamber's transportation and infrastructure chair, at the meeting with commissioners.
But the state's track record â€" or lately, lack of one â€" for supporting existing rail systems could prove a roadblock.
"Unfortunately, what they see as a weakness for us… is the support that such an effort would receive from the state," he said.
The feds have taken note of what Mr. Alonso called "false starts" on providing South Florida commuter line Tri-Rail with dedicated state funding and approving a proposed Central Florida rail line, SunRail, during this year's state legislative session.
"Both of those are seen as a complement to high-speed rail," he said, adding later that when it comes to supporting regional and federal projects, "it's not an either/or proposition."
Misty Brown, the county's federal affairs coordinator in the intergovernmental affairs office, said Florida's high-speed rail funding application could carry less weight without a cohesive show of support from state leaders.
And funding is critical, she added.
Now, local transportation projects aren't seeing much in the way of monetary commitments. But to have a shot at federal dollars, that's got to change.
Get that Convention Center out of OUR STATION and move Amtrak back in downtown. Build our streetcar system and finish our Skyway. It costs nothing to offer a letter of support to encourage Amtrak to put new trains on the Florida East Coast, trains that will split in Jacksonville. How do we light a fire under this political deadwood?OCKLAWAHA
To move the convention center, the courthouse would need to be built to put in motion both places moving and turning the Prime Osbourne back in into a transit center. If the stimulis money is to be used in the immediate futre, what time time frame would we be looking at to do what we need to do as a city and still be able to get a piece of this pie?
I'm not a big fan of hers but isn't Corrine (I lub Urgan Myer) Brown the chairman of the transportation committee? Where is her voice in all this? Most of her constituents would probably ride the train. Has anyone contacted her? Or has she made any overtures or even pushed the ball a little further to help Floirda get the dollars?
I just answered my own question. Got this from her website today.
http://www.house.gov/list/press/fl03_brown/pr_090804_commuter_rails.html
I received the same exact email as Ock in regards to the subject. I somewhat felt it was a standard response....funny....
Who says the convention center has to operate continuously? If we have an opportunity to bring trains back to Union Terminal, why can't we just go without a CC until the current Court House site can be cleared? It's not like it is full every week. Or maybe, move it temporarily out the Equestrian Center.
I fully agree Charles, 118,000 sq ft +/- is the same size of the old Iveys Store at Regency Square! Wose still the typical Wal-Mart Discount Stores are varying from 51,000 square feet (4738.1 m2) to 224,000 square feet (20810.3 m2), Sort of puts the Prime Osbourne in prospective doesn't it. No wonder the occupancy rate is in the 30% range.
The revived Jacksonville Terminal (stand in front of it, soak it in and see if you can force yourself to say "Jacksonville Transportation Center" NOT!) will be much more of an economic engine then any Convention Center, but even more so if Bay Street Station, streetcars and Skyway connects it to the City and the NEW convention Center and hotels downtown.
Has JTA made any movement toward planning the Skyway as far as the old Court House? Better get those little center cars and tune up that Monorail... They will soon have a SILVER METEOR to attach their future to!
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteTHE WHOLE COUNCIL IS ASLEEP Y'ALL! Where is our Glorious? This is a copy of my correspondence with our leadership:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It would appear that not every Council Member is asleep. I got an encouraging response this evening to my request for a Resolution of Support from Councilman Bill Bishop:
Me:
"
Dear City Council and At-Large Members,
It has come to my attention that Amtrak is interested in participating in a project that would revitalize the Florida East Coast Railway, including near-future passenger service on that line. To my eyes, this project would be a boon for Jacksonville, especially if terminal service were restored Downtown.
As a lifetime Jacksonville resident and Downtown advocate, I am interested in your opinion in this matter. Would the Council consider joining the 66+ (as of 07-01-09) state businesses, groups and municipalities by adopting a Resolution of Support for this project?
"
Councilman Bishop's response:
"
<brapt>: I have seen a great deal of traffic about this issue over the past couple of months. I am a big proponent of rail service and it sounds like this would be a good idea. It would be great for Jacksonville to be better connected to the rest of the country by train. I would appreciate it if you could provide me with more details about this effort such as who is advocating it, what is proposed, who is funding it, what would the City's responsibility be (if any), who should a resolution be addressed to, what the impact of this and similar resolutions is expected to be, etc.
Thank you,
Bill
William Bishop, AIA
Council Member, District 2
"
I can speak in generalities to many of his questions, but would defer to some of the expert advice I've grown to appreciate here. Would the contributors of metrojacksonville.com care to assist in drafting an educated and perhaps more detailed reply?
Mr. Bishop already has all the information he needs but give me a minute to answer the questions in your post.
Mr. Bishop already has all the information he needs. Perhaps he did not fully read the original information sent by Metro Jacksonville. Here you go.
who is advocating it
Amtrak, FDOT and a host of municipalities, planning agencies, transportation authorities and residents who believe in having rail as a viable mobility option in the State of Florida.
what is proposed?
FDOT proposes to partner with Amtrak to implement passenger rail service between Jacksonville and Miami along the Florida East Coast corridor. This $70 million project will include the creation of eight new train stations between Jacksonville and Miami and increasing FEC's track capacity to allow passenger and freight operations to run along the existing rail corridor. As a part of the plan, Jacksonville would become a potential hub for Amtrak service entering and leaving the state.
who is funding it
Funding would be provided by an FDOT and Amtrak partnership
what would the City's responsibility be (if any)
Financially, none. In terms of future local economic development, the city (council, mayor's office, JTA, TPO, etc.) should be lobbying to have Amtrak move back downtown as a part of the plan. Financially, this would move the development of the Jacksonville Transportation Center forward with the use of Amtrak dollars. In addition, regional and intercity rail operations in downtown will open up the possibility of passengers spending dollars in Jacksonville's downtown core, as well as high paying rail-based support jobs needed to service operations.
who should a resolution be addressed to?
FDOT, Amtrak and JTA.
what the impact of this and similar resolutions is expected to be
The actual funding of an intercity rail line between Jacksonville and Miami. Without support from the public and elected leadership, projects like this could easily be omitted in favor of additional road construction, due to a perceived lack of support. This plan has been discussed for over a decade but has never made it off the drawing board. With 66+ municipalities and development groups already on board, having the city council of Florida's largest municipality vocally express their support would be a great lift for finally making this plan reality, which will benefit our community just as much as any other place.
If Mr. Bishop is interested in learning more about this project, here is a link to the official FDOT preapplication.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-jacksonville-to-miami-passenger-rail-returning
^Thank you Lakelander. I'll reply with this info. Here is to hoping for a general growing of interest in Mr. Bishop and not just an automated email to me... :(
A quick update:
I've received responses from 2 other Council Members inquiring about a Resolution of Support.
Councilman Crescimbeni mentioned that he has already spoken with JTA CEO Michael Blaylock about JTA's own Resolution and asked whether or not the Council should do the same. He apparently did not get a "yes" or "no" answer, just copies of JTA's Resolutions. I have offered to follow-up with Mr. Blaylock but have so far been unsuccessful in contacting him. I'll continue to seek his opinion in this matter through the week.
Councilman Yarborough told me he was not altogether familiar with Amtrak's operations in Jacksonville, but offered to consider such a Resolution should another Council Member propose it.
More interestingly, with thanks to the Lakelander I was able to provide Councilman Bishop with answers to his previous questions regarding our City's Resolution of Support. He has replied:
"
<brapt>: Is there suggested resolution language available? If so, could you send me a copy? I will get with JTA and get their take on this. What is the timeline, if any at this point, on this project? When will funding decisions be made? What kind of time is available to get a resolution passed? I may be interested in sponsoring such a resolution.
"
Again I feel I should confer with the experts here, and I think clawing our way through every proposal can only help us toward our goal. My reaction would be to find a copy of JTA's resolution to use as a template, and it seems Mr. Bishop is thinking in a similar direction with respect to his contacting JTA. I will also do my best to get a word or emailed sentence into Mr. Blaylock at JTA. As for the remaining questions my response would be something like "time is of the essence" "yesterday," etc. I'd be excited for Mr. Bishop to sponsor a Resolution that we might convince the remaining Council Members to take a hard look at.
Any thoughts on this? Can you think of any further detail that might help sell Mr. Bishop in sponsorship of a Resolution?
Good work so far Brapt. There is a resolution Lakelander put together I am sure he will foward to you.
The resolution can be found here: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jun-st-augustine-backs-rail-project-will-jacksonville
Well, that's embarrassing I didn't find that on my own. :/
Thank you, Lunican! And thanks for the props JeffreyS, hopefully we can get something to happen.