Elements of Urbanism: Baltimore
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588363896_xeCFm-M.jpg)
Baltimore's successful Inner Harbor serves as an example of successfully implementing a redevelopment strategy built around the concept of connectivity.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-elements-of-urbanism-baltimore
Well I've got to get to Baltimore and check out their Aquarium. I would like to see the difference between theirs and the Ga Aquarium. Oh and let me be the first to welcome the run to the defense of Jax crew we have on here. This has nothing to do with density and population. With proper planning and vision IT CAN BE ACOMPLISHED on a small, medium, or large scale which ever applies. Jax has neither. I guess we will see what the future holds for us in the years to come. Anyway cant wait to visit this CITY!!!
On that Jacksonville aerial that doesnt even include the shipyards, old jea site, or metro park. Just think of what could be or maybe will be in time.
I've been to Balitmore. It's GORGEOUS. The Power Plant is a concentration of night clubs and bars. It's packed most nights of the week. The Barnes and Noble is MASSIVE. 3 floors (i think) of books and a coffee shop...it rocks. Little Italy has some of the best Italian food I've ever had. Jonestown is amazing also. And it's all within easy biking distance (maybe not walking but biking surely). Jacksonville could learn a REAL lesson from a city like Baltimore. Years ago the downtown was worse than our Urban Core. Crime, drugs, prostitutes, you name it they had it. It was worse than a ghost town it was a cesspool festering and rotting. Now, it's on it's to the top of the Urban food chain.
The Inner Harbor is a great public space and the original planners (WRT out of Philly) really understood connectivity and how to maximize tourism opportunities.
That said, I might suggest that people take a walk north of the Inner Harbor into the downtown. Growing up there, I used to think that there were hardly any homeless people in Baltimore. However, while working in downtown one summer, I learned that they just shoo them away from the Inner Harbor....and much of the rest of their downtown is as desolate as Jax.
With a water front like that, dont need much else.
I spent some time in Baltimore in 2006. The inner harbor area is a cool area and the aquarium is amazing. I wish we had something like that here. The weekend I was there all of the restaurants in the area were packed. It was a great atmosphere.
Quotedowntown is as desolate as Jax
It was at one time but most of the Neighborhoods surrounding downtown have been gentrified and it's spreading outward. Places as far east as Canton are becoming like Fells Point.
It now makes sense. When I was there in 2008, I thought they were building a new convention center, but it was actually a huge hotel next to the convention center. I love how vibrant and bustling Baltimore looks during the day. Does anyone on here know what sparked and funded their downtown revitalization? How did they attract so many developers and national retailers/restaurants? Which came first, residences or attractions? What sorts of incentives did the city give out? Do they utilize TIF districts? Baltimore is one of those cities that our own city government could really learn a lot from because we have many physical similarities as well as a history of neglect in the urban core.
My hometown!!! And it's pronounced Bawlamer. As in "Welcome t' Bawlamer, Hon!"
Brainstormer, it didn't happen overnight. For awhile the only thing downtown was Harborplace, but with each addition it got stronger. I think the tipping point arrived with Camden Yards, then Ravens Stadium. There were also grants for renovating row homes 30 years ago - buy a rotting shell from the city for $1 and commit to investing a certain amount into the renovation. There's also a great light rail system that runs all the way from the airport, through downtown, and to the northern suburbs.
Also, keep in mind that Baltimore City has a completely separate government from Baltimore County, so when their residents move out it's just like when Duval residents move to St. Johns. Baltimore City couldn't afford to drag its heels - if they didn't take action 20 years ago, they'd already be dead.
Thanks Hoop for the info! With all of this talk lately about taxes and the city budget mess and the failure of our inner city areas, I am coming to a realization. I think consolidation of Jacksonville with Duval County not only killed the inner neighborhoods, but also is now preventing us from making progress.
Most other progressive cities rely on their own tax rates and government to create the vision to move forward. For example, I'm sure people within the city of Baltimore pay higher taxes than those who live on the outskirts of the county. They choose to pay those higher taxes though because they have a wonderful quality of life living in the city. With mass transit and walkable neighborhoods they don't have commuting costs and perhaps not having a car makes up for the higher taxes.
In Jacksonville, because of consolidation, our government is trying to please the folks who live off Kings Road near the Nassau Line (those who want dirt roads, no taxes, and don't read books) with those who live downtown and in Springfield. We want open libraries, mass transit so we can ditch the car, parks we can enjoy, Jazz Festivals, streets that are clean, etc. Most of us would pay higher taxes to have all of those things.
I'm at the point where I don't think this city will ever make progress and change until something is done about the consolidation. Will it ever be possible to find a way to make myself and Mr. Redneck both happy? Could we think out of the box and perhaps create a way to ensure that districts receive the money they pay in taxes back into their districts? Those who pay low taxes in the country can keep their dirt roads but those in the core who have higher assessments want Laura Street repaved and better parks (just an example). How can a consolidated government covering a land mass as huge as Duval County allow for all kinds of folks to live peacefully together and be happy? The city of Baltimore did it, so why aren't we on the same level?
I may agree with brainstormer. I do agree in that I think the residents barely within the county line should not be given the attention that is given to those in the core.
I think a bigger problem is the dual CBD's we have between Southpoint and DT. If you took a quarter of the workers from southpoint and point them in brooklyn or DT, how much better would that be for the core? I know rooftops would be even better, but until DT starts to win out over the southside, I'm not sure how much the core will grow.
Is every venue in Jacksonville copied from somewhere else? Are we guilty of making smaller copies of what some other City has designed then plopping it down without a thought to how it may or may not fit into a connected plan. Quote1.
Baltimore: Maryland Science Center - 1976
Jacksonville: Museum of Science and History (MOSH)
- 1969, which would fit nicely within the restrooms of the Baltimore Science MuseumQuote2.
Baltimore: World Trade Center - 1977
Jacksonville: Independent Square - 1974 -
BIG DEAL, they have a "World Trade Center" and we have an office building. Quote3.
Baltimore: Baltimore Convention Center - 1979
Jacksonville: Prime Osborn Convention Center -
1985 - Lack of vision has left us with a meeting hall for the Jehovah's Witnesses.Quote4.
Baltimore: Harbor Place - 1980
Jacksonville: The Jacksonville Landing - 1987 -
Just another copy cat building, too small, no parking and not connected even to Laura StreetQuote5.
Baltimore: National Aquarium - 1981
Jacksonville: Times Union Center for the Performing Arts - 1997 -
Sitting on land better used for commercial development, we do have an aquarium, theres a guy on the Southside that raises pond catfish
*-Jacksonville does not have an aquarium and Baltimore does not have a performing arts center in the Inner Harbor.
Quote6.
Baltimore: Pier Six Concert Pavilion - 1981
Jacksonville: Metropolitan Park - 1984 -
Who else would put all of their eggs in a park that's 2 miles from the action and under a freeway viaduct? Quote7.
Baltimore: Pratt Street Power Plant - 1997 (1985 - 1989 An Indoor Six Flags Amusement Park)
Jacksonville: Southside Generation Station (decommissioned in 2001 and demolished),
Actually we had the streetcar barns, and across the street the power plant and streetcar school and office building, HAD being the key word here.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: brainstormer on July 30, 2009, 10:47:13 AM
I think consolidation of Jacksonville with Duval County not only killed the inner neighborhoods, but also is now preventing us from making progress.
I'm at the point where I don't think this city will ever make progress and change until something is done about the consolidation.
This red herring appears every so often, and it needs to stop. It is a illogical excuse to continue down the road of mediocrity.
Indianapolis
Norfolk
Nashville
Are all consolidated, and have great Downtowns.
Charlotte, San Antonio, Dallas also have cover huge swaths of suburban territory, yet also have a great core.
Consolidation is a HUGE advantage and strength. It is not leveraged to it's fullest benefit, IMO, but it is NOT the issue here.
Having vision, a plan that utilizes good urban design, and the political will to enact it, are what is missing. It is not now, nor has it ever been consolidation.
And those inner core neighborhoods were already down and out in 1968 when consolidation took place.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 30, 2009, 11:04:09 AM
I may agree with brainstormer. I do agree in that I think the residents barely within the county line should not be given the attention that is given to those in the core.
I think a bigger problem is the dual CBD's we have between Southpoint and DT. If you took a quarter of the workers from southpoint and point them in brooklyn or DT, how much better would that be for the core? I know rooftops would be even better, but until DT starts to win out over the southside, I'm not sure how much the core will grow.
I agree with Vic. I could jump on board with viewing consolidation as a negative on the urban core but Indianapolis, Louisville and Nashville paint a different picture. They are three examples of cities that have still managed to have vibrant "clustered" urban growth, while still dealing with suburban districts just as large and popular as the Southside. I consider consolidation a plus. To me, the issue appears to be a continued lack of coordinated long term planning and implementation (Metro Park redevelopment schedule as proof). Because of this, Jacksonville is a modern day Frankenstein. Our landscape remains filled with a mix of critical components that fail to work with their immediate surroundings or combine to form a sustainable vibrant district. If there is one thing we can take from the Inner Harbor, it should be the coordination and placement of the projects, in relation to other attractions already in place.
To echo the comments above, consolidatio has generally been a positrive for Jax.
For example, take a look at Baltimore City's population...at one point (just after 1950 I believe), it was around 1 million people....and in now its barely more than 600,000...and its still going down.
Just imagine the fiscal condition Baltimore would be in without the influx of revenue that is generated by the Inner Harbor!
Here's some info. on a potential LRT expansion in B'More
http://www.planetizen.com/node/39938
In reading the public e-mail boxes on the property tax debate, many people have voiced a willingness to pay more, just not in the form of property tax. They want it spread around to renters and visitors, etc. Since it is less efficient and more costly to provide services to the suburbs, perhaps an "Extended Service Fee" could be instituted. Define the center of the county and create ever widening circles. Homes, renters (not landlords), businesses (each storefront), non-profits all pay a flat fee depending on how far out they are from the center, 5 to 10 miles, 10 to 15 miles, 15 to 20 miles. The inner circle, 0 to 5 miles, would be the "Redevelopment Zone" and would not pay the fee. However, there would be a .01 sales tax in the "Redevelopment Zone" for capital improvements and mass transit (streetcars!). Add to that permitting penalties or a moratorium on development in the suburbs and property tax incentives in the "Redevelopment Zone" (i.e. freeze property values for a time on new development) and perhaps people and businesses would be incentivized to return downtown.
the big difference is that baltimore hasn't turned its back on the downtown area. I would like to see a population census of buisness and residences within the downtown area. Also there is a lot of cities within a short drive of baltimore (wash dc, philly, fredrick, alexandria, arlington, annapolis, etc.) all of which are very dense/populated cities.
if jax didn't avoid the downtown area and actually promoted business and attractions to move there, jax could be more successful than baltimore.
even though the population of baltimore is declining (due to people moving to the surrounding small towns) the city is still investing in the downtown core due to business and tourism.
Jaxnative...I wish your statement that "Jax could be more successful than Baltimore" were true....but there's more at play than just one city vs. the other.
Maryland is a very progressive state and the two most effective Governors of recent time were first the Mayor of Baltimore (Schaeffer and O'Malley)....Baltimore is the big boy in the state (just look at the state seal included on the Orioles and Ravens uniforms) and the metro area has always been given the lion's share of state funds.
I don't see how this could ever happen in Florida, where we have 25+ metropolitan areas....and Jacksonville is # 6 behind Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm, Orlando, and Tampa....plus all the $ that gets sent to the rural areas.
Even Georgia does it better....they spend tons of money in the rural areas, but its to appease the people who think all the money gets spent in Atlanta!
To respond to JaxNative, I did find this study which says:
"By the end of 2005, there were more than 37,000 people living in Downtown (an area defined as being within a one-mile radius of Pratt and Light streets)."
http://www.godowntownbaltimore.com/images/upload/8/pdf/outlook_2012.pdf
...and about a quarter of that one-mile radius is water. I wonder if they counted the marina? :)
Baltimore is no NYC or Chicago, but like DC, you can pack a lot of people into a compact area with rowhouses.
I get a little annoyed when people complain about renters not paying property taxes. You are right, we don't pay them directly to the city, but our rent certainly covers the cost of taxes on the property billed to the landlord. Why do you think rents are higher in nicer places? I guarantee you the Strand pays a great deal in property taxes and the owner passes this on to the renters through very expensive rent payments.
You know that and I know that, but apparently J. Q. Public doesn't know that. Read the public e-mail boxes and see how many people are complaining that only homeowners pay property tax! Renters (in complexes) were also paying solid waste fees long before homeowners got a separate bill and I'm certain that landlords are passing along the stormwater fee. And yet, a common remark is "I'll sell my house and just rent - there's no advantage to homeownership!" Apparently building equity, $50,000 exemptions, income tax deductions and a set mortgage payment that ends in 20 - 30 years are disadvantages in their world.
Sorry Gen7, my rant shouldn't have been directed at you. I reread what you said and you were merely relaying the ignorance you hear and read. Since everyone on here is informed and rationale, I guess my rant has little purpose. So here's to being educated! ;D
I think Baltimore is an underrated city that definitely has lots to offer, as this tour has shown. They've done a lot right; however, everything there isn't peaches and cream. Any of you guys ever seen the HBO series "The Wire"? There's a level of urban decay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crabsandbeer/sets/72157615484324172/) in Baltimore that Jacksonville, thankfully, has never known.
Very true. You get outside of the Inner Harbor and the surrounding waterfront urban districts and it goes down real quick.
for a while Baltimore rivaled to be one of the heroin capitals of the US. which was the leading factor to their urban decay.
Baltimore? Never been a fan of this city.. Jacksonville is a lot prettier, and cleaner in my opinion. :-\
I just wanted to point out that Baltimore does have a performing art's center. France-Merrick Performing Arts Center is only .3 miles farther away from the Inner Harbor than the Metropolitan Park is from the Landing.
I grew up in Northern Virginia and remember Baltimore as a very scary place that EVERYONE avoided. It was more fearful to travel through Baltimore than Southeast DC -- and that is saying a lot. The first thing I remember changing was the Chesapeake getting cleaned up. There was a lot of excitement about the $1.00 houses (DC was doing the same thing -- this must have been in the 70s). All of a sudden, after the aquarium was built, people began to venture up there, excited by the pioneer spirit of it all and stayed.
In the past couple of years, Strider and I have spent some time in Fells Point. I adore Baltimore and would live there if I could swing it. It is a vibrant, working class city, full of fun.
Fells Point really kicked it in gear when the city wanted to plow through the neighborhood for a highway. The neighbors got together and filed a law suit against the city to prevent it. They started an arts festival to raise money to pay for legal fees. I think that was 20 years ago. They still have the festival and they don't have a highway running through it.
Thanks for running the piece on Baltimore. It is a great city and Jax could learn much from it.
Well on my way to Bridgeport, Ct for a 6 week assignment I stopped in Baltimore's water front. The pictuers on here really dont do it justice. You have to visit this place and see it for yourself. The place was packed on a Sunday morning. A very nice experience.
Yeah! Baltimore! Love it, love it, love it.
I agree 100% with sheclown. When I was younger, I spent my summers at my aunt's home in Baltimore County. She would take me and my cousins on outings into Baltimore City. This was during the late 1980s and early 1990s. I was impressed by how the Inner Harbor was much more full of life and activity than our own downtown. Compared to the acres of parking lots and boarded up buildings in downtown Jax, Baltimore had a density and a vibrancy that influenced my decision to choose Dover AFB when I joined the military - that, and being close to D.C., Philly and NYC.
I particularly like the mass transit in Baltimore. I took the Amtrak to Baltimore to attend President Clinton's 1997 inauguration. I used the MARC train to get from Baltimore to D.C. I enjoyed Pennsylvania Station as well - worlds better than our Clifford Lane dump.
One more thing that Baltimore has that Jacksonville doesn't? John Waters!
http://motorsports.fanhouse.com/2010/05/05/streets-of-baltimore-may-be-next-indycar-venue/
http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/city-approves-deal-to-start-baltimore/1046830
"The contract with a group of local investors calls for the race to be held every August for five years. City officials estimate it will draw 100,000 spectators and generate nearly $50 million in annual economic impact."
We're not talking NASCAR here either!
Crowd estimates for Grand Prix vary Organizers confident that more than 100,000 attended three-day event
"Roger Penske said it was one of the greatest street events he had ever been to...."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-grand-prix-crowds-20110905,0,3778897.story
and
Drivers, mayor see Baltimore's first IndyCar race as success
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/indycar/story/2011-09-05/Drivers-mayor-see-Baltimores-first-IndyCar-race-as-success/50268046/1
By nearly all accounts, this event was a resounding SUCCESS and huge economic impact for the City of Baltimore, in case you hadn't heard.
I watched part of the race...was pretty cool
Of course it helps that Baltimore has some pretty wide boulevard streets in its downtown (Pratt, Light, Russell, etc.)...now whether that is a good thing or not for urban life is a separate issue.
Yeah the race was cool. That would be awesome to have in Jax. Run it around the Southbank.
The race was a massive success for Baltimore, helping cement the city as an 'event place.'
I hope it helps to 'flip' Baltimore over into an actual, desirable city to live in. Thus far, it seems that all Bmore can reach is "along the water" regarding living in the city.