To be... or, not to be. Discuss amongst yourselves!QuoteOrganic food is no healthier, study finds
Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:29pm EDT
LONDON (Reuters) - Organic food has no nutritional or health benefits over ordinary food, according to a major study published Wednesday.
Researchers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine said consumers were paying higher prices for organic food because of its perceived health benefits, creating a global organic market worth an estimated $48 billion in 2007.
A systematic review of 162 scientific papers published in the scientific literature over the last 50 years, however, found there was no significant difference.
"A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance," said Alan Dangour, one of the report's authors.
"Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority."
The results of research, which was commissioned by the British government's Food Standards Agency, were published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
Sales of organic food have fallen in some markets, including Britain, as recession has led consumers to cut back on purchases.
The Soil Association said in April that growth in sales of organic products in Britain slowed to just 1.7 percent in 2008, well below the average annual growth rate of 26 percent over the last decade, following a plunge in demand at the end of the year.
My fiance and I have always laughed at the whole organic movement. My aunts in georgia have grown their own food for generations and do things the old fashioned way and I dare you to find a better product but since it's not certified organic, it's crap. We buy all our veggies at Beaver St. and we've never had any issue with them. It's not that I mind people trying to make things in a more responsible manner but the insanity that comes along with it just grates my nerves. I remember taking the sneak peek tour at whole foods and the produce guy was telling us how they take great measures to see that nothing that isn't certified organic EVER touches the holy organic items. Really? Penn and Teller are doing an episode of Bullshit on organic stuff this season, should be entertaining to watch.
I do think that careful growing measures to aide heirloom and special varieties of items is good and free range meat is certainly ethical but I hate the marketing stupidity that has infected the masses in thinking that eating an organic apple is somehow better for you than a regular one. Affording a healthy, balanced diet is hard enough these days, don't go out there and rob poor families of money by telling them that it's not good enough.
The pesticides are an issue but I wash all my stuff before I eat it anyway and I've never been sick. Organic as a marketing term is just insane. They literally have organic anything now and it's just marketing bs. I'm going to petition for organic Mad Dog 20/20 and organic King Cobra.
I think it's fine to have an organic option, I do not think that it's right to trick people into thinking they're getting additional benefits from it.
Organic food isn't just about 'is it healthier or not?'
Organic means many things...
For instance,
Cleaner water sources
Cleaner soil
Less harmful to ecosystem/nature/species/biodiversity
Helps keep rural communities healthy
Reduces health risks associated with synthetic chemicals
Etc...
Tell that to the mom who is dealing with a 10 year old with boobs and a visitor once a month...in an attempt to keep us safe our food system has become a mafia system that keeps a few very very rich...fertilizer companies...food engineers...cheap food that grows fast...the food system has screwed itself and our population.
Hormones and antibiotics in meat are the bigger reasons to go organic. For higher nutritional value go with flash frozen over fresh.
I love studies with limited basis for comparison this one used only one. The idea of a study like this is usually to get the answer you want. Same deal for people looking to spin the other way may just study the antibiotics making us lees immune or just the hormones making people fat and so on.
I am 41 in junior high we all ate at Burger King, had Doritos and cokes and stayed skinny as rails. Go visit a junior high today your eyes will tell you the truth about what we are eating.
Organic food IS ordinary food.
I would also suggest it wise to grow your own food where possible and to resist the encroaching monopoly of the food supply by supporting organic and independent growers.
It's always easier to go with the flow, but when the river is diverted to a path towards tyranny, is it wise to go with the flow?
Quote from: buckethead on March 15, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
Organic food IS ordinary food.
I would also suggest it wise to grow your own food where possible and to resist the encroaching monopoly of the food supply by supporting organic and independent growers.
It's always easier to go with the flow, but when the river is diverted to a path towards tyranny, is it wise to go with the flow?
+1 You hippie wanting your cow to eat grass.
Quote from: JeffreyS on March 15, 2011, 09:58:27 AM
Quote from: buckethead on March 15, 2011, 09:57:09 AM
Organic food IS ordinary food.
I would also suggest it wise to grow your own food where possible and to resist the encroaching monopoly of the food supply by supporting organic and independent growers.
It's always easier to go with the flow, but when the river is diverted to a path towards tyranny, is it wise to go with the flow?
+1 You hippie wanting your cow to eat grass.
Mmmm...grass fed filet mignon....talk about a nice dinner.
Grass fed beef tatses much better. I get a few organic items and I do it because most of the organic items I purchase come from local farms that you can visit and I also know that no pesticides, etc were used and in the case of the beef, they are only fed grass. There is a noticeable taste difference.
Quote from: thekillingwax on July 29, 2009, 11:29:08 PM
The pesticides are an issue but I wash all my stuff before I eat it anyway and I've never been sick.
If you are cancer-free twenty years from now,
then you can make that claim.
The growth (make you fat) hormones and antibiotics are what I am trying to avoid.
I've always had a hard time understand the "anti-organic" crowd, for lack of a better term. You know, the ones who say 'its overpriced' or 'not worth it' or 'if you're cancer free then you can talk'. What exactly are you guys advocating? We know that pesticides are bad for us and the environment. We know artificial growth hormones, genetically modified organisms, and antibiotic tainted food isn't great...why NOT push for more organics? What's with the unwarranted skepticism?
Quote from: ben says on March 15, 2011, 11:55:31 AM
I've always had a hard time understand the "anti-organic" crowd, for lack of a better term. You know, the ones who say 'its overpriced' or 'not worth it' or 'if you're cancer free then you can talk'. What exactly are you guys advocating? We know that pesticides are bad for us and the environment. We know artificial growth hormones, genetically modified organisms, and antibiotic tainted food isn't great...why NOT push for more organics? What's with the unwarranted skepticism?
Im not "anti organic" as it is undoubtedly a better alternative. The more organics the better. It will likely always be a niche food however. Modern pesticides and fertilizers produce yields that are not attainable organically. Loss of organic crop yield is much higher due to spoilage, insects and vermin. While grass fed beef is a better product... the grass lands to to allow them a "free range" diet are expensive and dwindling. Costs for organic foods are indeed a factor for many people and the organic label is a luxury.
At what point does technological advancement become a detriment? Just because a population of 50 billion (for instance) might be "supported" on Earth, should it?
Do we need to return at some level, to an agrarian society?
Quote from: buckethead on March 15, 2011, 01:07:03 PM
At what point does technological advancement become a detriment? Just because a population of 50 billion (for instance) might be "supported" on Earth, should it?
Do we need to return at some level, to an agrarian society?
I am fairly certain that at some point... I will...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 15, 2011, 12:43:22 PM
Quote from: ben says on March 15, 2011, 11:55:31 AM
I've always had a hard time understand the "anti-organic" crowd, for lack of a better term. You know, the ones who say 'its overpriced' or 'not worth it' or 'if you're cancer free then you can talk'. What exactly are you guys advocating? We know that pesticides are bad for us and the environment. We know artificial growth hormones, genetically modified organisms, and antibiotic tainted food isn't great...why NOT push for more organics? What's with the unwarranted skepticism?
Im not "anti organic" as it is undoubtedly a better alternative. The more organics the better. It will likely always be a niche food however. Modern pesticides and fertilizers produce yields that are not attainable organically. Loss of organic crop yield is much higher due to spoilage, insects and vermin. While grass fed beef is a better product... the grass lands to to allow them a "free range" diet are expensive and dwindling. Costs for organic foods are indeed a factor for many people and the organic label is a luxury.
Not always true gmo soy designed to work with round up and be more pesticide friendly has turned out to be less drought tolerant and the fields it is planted in slowly become infested with hardier weeds and bugs. So the more you spray the more you need to spray.
Also the mass production of crops has gentrified the variety of crops. Thousands of varieties of potato have become very few so one insect or fungus that affects the popular varieties can be devastating. That is what happened in the Irish potato famine. The higher yield feed the world campaign is advertising. We can already produce enough food. The farmer of thirty years ago knew his trade this is one of those fields that has been less scientific advancement more corporate takeover because government supplements and the patenting of seed and life ruined the family farm.
^+1
QuoteCosts for organic foods are indeed a factor for many people and the organic label is a luxury.
non-organically grown food tends to come from large scale monoculture farms that are subsidized by the government. Want cheap organic food? Plant a garden or join a community garden.
There are tons of studies that prove this one wrong. The real questions are who funded this study? Who is this group? What are their motivations? then decide whether it is valid study or not
Grow you own if you can. I visited Native Sun for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Organic asparagus was $8.99 a pound. Organic apples were $2.49 a pound. As far as organic food being an affordable alternative to commercially grown food for most people, I think that says it all.
QuoteWant cheap organic food? Plant a garden or join a community garden.
Great idea... not practical for most... I have done so in the past and from my experience... it does not nearly provide me with the fruits and veggies I consume... not to mention variety and seasonal crops.
Quotethe fields it is planted in slowly become infested with hardier weeds and bugs. So the more you spray the more you need to spray.
Not always true either and is certainly "propaganda" from the "pro organic" side.
QuoteAlso the mass production of crops has gentrified the variety of crops. Thousands of varieties of potato have become very few so one insect or fungus that affects the popular varieties can be devastating.
True enough... of course the reason for the fewer varieties are specifically for hardiness, insect and fungal resistant, harvestability, and quantity. There are plenty of varieties out there if you want them and plenty of chefs and markets sell these "rare varieties."
Again... nothing against organic. I consume it when I can... it simply is not plentiful enough nor cost effective enough for the mass population. Sort of like alternative energies on another thread... They sure are great... until you have to power an entire city with them...
BT I get what your saying and there is truth in it. The truth has been made to be however by subsidizing some crops and has artificially made some varieties rare (however you slice it they are now rare.)
Likewise I do not have anything against finding better ways to do things. I just do not think feedlots where beef is cheap because they are fed government subsidized corn, antibiotics and growth hormones is a better way.
QuoteOrganic asparagus was $8.99 a pound. Organic apples were $2.49 a pound. As far as organic food being an affordable alternative to commercially grown food for most people, I think that says it all.
Debbie, the reason those two items were so expensive are because of oil. Apples are out of season and asparagus does not grow well in our region. Those items, although grown organically, had to be hauled here from some distant place and the cost of trucking them in goes into the cost to the consumer.
Why does this not happen with non-organic food? because of government subsidies. The government does not subsidize small scale organic farms. So the cost of organic food is the REAL cost including the cost to ship. Organic does not mean local.
I rarely buy vegetables because i grow my own...we live in florida..there really is no reason we should have to buy veggies all the time...there are some veggies that won't grow here but heck..we've got sunlight like crazy and organic is'nt that much harder accept when it comes to bugs...bugs like our weather just as much as we do but if you catch them early they are controllable..I suggest the Rodale guide to organic gardening..great book with lots of old knowledge and new.
QuoteWant cheap organic food? Plant a garden or join a community garden.
Great idea... not practical for most... I have done so in the past and from my experience... it does not nearly provide me with the fruits and veggies I consume... not to mention variety and seasonal crops.
It depends on what you grow. We eat entirely out of our community garden plot. We purchase meat and dairy. Our food bill for the month of January was less than $100. There is plenty to grow year-round here and have tons of variety - we rarely eat the same meal and we eat like kings.
If you aren't a gardener then support a local farmer. Buy from a CSA or purchase from a local farmer (make sure they are farmer's and not middlemen, as some of the Beaver Street vendors are) and you will see great seasonal variety and lower overall costs.
Most people are not aware that there are lots of fruit that can be grown in our region besides citrus. Apples, figs, plums, etc. There are varieties that do well in our region and fruit trees require less daily care than vegetable gardens.
There are tons of ways to eat organic and not pay out the wazoo. And there are tons of studies stating exactly the opposite of this one.
The discussion of "to eat organic" or "not to eat organic" has to evolve beyond this. There are other impacts that food choices have including water and soil quality, food miles, and food security.
QuoteResearchers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine have now completed the most extensive systematic review of the available published literature on nutrient content of organic food ever conducted. The review focussed on nutritional content and did not include a review of the content of contaminants or chemical residues in foods from different agricultural production regimens.
http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/news/2009/organicfood.html
The title is misleading unfortunately. In reality, the study authored by London School of Hygiene and Tropical Health researchers looks at the scarcity of data now available concerning the nutrition-related health effects of organic foods. The study points out the need for better designed studies to answer this question. The review, which appeared in the May 12 online posting of articles for The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, only found 12 studies with any relevance to nutrition-related aspects of organic food, and most of these were poorly designed and flawed.
Mounting evidence proves there are health benefits for consuming organic foods. But regardless of whether you believe organics have higher nutrition value or not, what we choose to purchase has implications that go beyond nutrition and all of that needs to be considered when we decide where we are going to put our money. Where you put your money is who you give power to.
Quote from: avs on March 15, 2011, 03:53:08 PM
QuoteWant cheap organic food? Plant a garden or join a community garden.
Great idea... not practical for most... I have done so in the past and from my experience... it does not nearly provide me with the fruits and veggies I consume... not to mention variety and seasonal crops.
It depends on what you grow. We eat entirely out of our community garden plot. We purchase meat and dairy. Our food bill for the month of January was less than $100. There is plenty to grow year-round here and have tons of variety - we rarely eat the same meal and we eat like kings.
If you aren't a gardener then support a local farmer. Buy from a CSA or purchase from a local farmer (make sure they are farmer's and not middlemen, as some of the Beaver Street vendors are) and you will see great seasonal variety and lower overall costs.
Most people are not aware that there are lots of fruit that can be grown in our region besides citrus. Apples, figs, plums, etc. There are varieties that do well in our region and fruit trees require less daily care than vegetable gardens.
There are tons of ways to eat organic and not pay out the wazoo. And there are tons of studies stating exactly the opposite of this one.
The discussion of "to eat organic" or "not to eat organic" has to evolve beyond this. There are other impacts that food choices have including water and soil quality, food miles, and food security.
Again... really it is awesome that you can do this. remember... however you do live in Florida. Our friends in Minnesota are not as lucky. Same with the "buy local" idea. It is something to keep in mind when making purchases... but if I live in Wisconsin and want an orange... it must come from down here. Grapes right now are really expensive... but Chile is exporting and selling some great tasting fruit. Should I not eat them because they come from Chile... and are not organic?
Organic is a food choice... buying local is a food choice. We can all stand to make better choices... but modern society gives me the option of broccoli from California, grapes from Chile and pineapple from Hawaii. I like those options...
Not just buying local but eating local...So many of us eat what the stores have fed us over the years...anyone can eat fresh local even up north...heck it's easier to grow nice veggies up north than down here...a green house up north provides a mulititude during the winter...they've got it down to a science on stretching time and getting what the can out of soil...organic is simply using natural growing techniques which is really not that new..our forfather gardeners have been doing this for many many years and if done well can create some of the most beautiful and healthful foods.
Sorry GG... never seen grapefruit growing Wisconsin... nor artichokes, etc. If eating local means I have to not buy from Chile, California, Honduras, or New jersey... count me out.
Food is food, that's the way that I look at it, and the food that MOST people eat are hella cheaper than organic food. I've had fresh pulledly pig meat before, and guess what it tastes like? Regular pulled pork meat. Some people act as if a lil' bit of preservatives are gonna destroy your stomach lining like sulfuric acid or something.
Quote from: I-10east on March 15, 2011, 07:46:30 PM
Some people act as if a lil' bit of preservatives are gonna destroy your stomach lining like sulfuric acid or something.
It's not a lil' bit o' this or a lil' bit o' that that is worrying, it is the accumlation of these things, not only in the body over a lifetime, but in the environment as well.
It's not rocket science, folks.
If you take a small dose of rat poison, no big whoop.
If you take a small dose every day....
I was going to use candy bucket but I like your example better.