I wish there was a Barnes and Nobles or similar type store on this side of town. I sincerely hate going all the way to the St. Johns Town Center or Atlantic just to skim over a few magazines and a book. Sometimes I can relax in the Paneras at Roosevelt but it isn't a book store. I know there are an ample amount of libraries in the [Riverside/Avondale] area but what good are they when they close at six or nine?
Anyone know the reason why there is no book store chain presence like that on this side of town? I know Chamblins offers quite a fierce competition and the abundance of libraries could push people away from going to B and N type store in the Riverside area.
I wish someone would develop like a 3 story Barnes and Noble here, I hate the Jacksonville philosophy that EVERYTHING MUST SPRAWL. You can build a successful store that is vertical! Here is a possible build spot: I know parking will be horrible but that is why we Riverside people use bicycles.
(http://mbe.arlando.net/buildhere.jpg)
The Barnes and Noble chain is struggling to keep its head above water as it is. They have closed many stores and are building very few new ones. That big box model doesn't work in an area with limited parking in any case.
Maybe we could convince Ron Chamblin to expand into the old Fuel space in 5 Points if the owners didn't want such ridiculously high rent for the space. A bookstore/coffee shop combination like his downtown store would be great.
Is the olriginal Chamblins on Roosevelt too far away?
i've always wondered why there wasn't a bookstore in the 5 Points, Park & King, or Shoppes of Avondale area.
Seems like a no brainer and certain success.
there have been a few....Whites (Avondale) was the longest lasting. It is now named Cowford Traders. I use to work at B Dalton downtown. (Barnes & Nobles). With the internet, book sales have diminished the need for the big retailers. Even Wal-Mart and Target offer sale prices to new releases. Same thing happened to all the record stores I managed over the years. Internet. Ron Chamblin has a hard time with new releases because he won't get the same price as a large retailer. But who needs new releases when his market is the used books. I love his place.
We don't want a commercial corporate business in 5 points anyways, do we?
from what I hear, the people who ran The Landing Bookstore are hoping to reople in the 5 Points area
Quote from: Galois on July 19, 2009, 03:14:14 PM
I wish there was a Barnes and Nobles or similar type store on this side of town. I sincerely hate going all the way to the St. Johns Town Center or Atlantic just to skim over a few magazines and a book. Sometimes I can relax in the Paneras at Roosevelt but it isn't a book store. I know there are an ample amount of libraries in the [Riverside/Avondale] area but what good are they when they close at six or nine?
Anyone know the reason why there is no book store chain presence like that on this side of town? I know Chamblins offers quite a fierce competition and the abundance of libraries could push people away from going to B and N type store in the Riverside area.
I wish someone would develop like a 3 story Barnes and Noble here, I hate the Jacksonville philosophy that EVERYTHING MUST SPRAWL. You can build a successful store that is vertical! Here is a possible build spot: I know parking will be horrible but that is why we Riverside people use bicycles.
Heck, the one on B&N on Atlantic has closed too!!!
There used to be the classic old 5-Points News stand, and they used to have every magazine known to man as well as paperback books. Sadly the hole-in-the-wall shop that is today, is more of a cheap porn shop then the classic news stand. Perhaps the owner should be encouraged to clean up his act and get with the demands of the neighborhood. I was deeply disapointed when I walked in there for the first time in 40 years. Sad state indeed.
OCKLAWAHA
Chamblin's is great (both locations), but I'd personally like something walkable, which from Riverside, neither is.
Trust me, I know beggars can't be choosers, but it woudl be nice.
On another note, that wedge of property at the corner of Oak and Margaret would be great for about anything, but the building hsa to be designed right. If Walgreen's puts up one of their signature stucco boxes, I will be HUGELY dissapointed.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 20, 2009, 09:00:20 AM
There used to be the classic old 5-Points News stand, and they used to have every magazine known to man as well as paperback books. Sadly the hole-in-the-wall shop that is today, is more of a cheap porn shop then the classic news stand. Perhaps the owner should be encouraged to clean up his act and get with the demands of the neighborhood. I was deeply disapointed when I walked in there for the first time in 40 years. Sad state indeed.
OCKLAWAHA
Maybe we should just ask him if the economics of the business force him to do this. That location has always had "girlie" magazines in the back, but it looks like the rest of the choices have just been reduced over the years.
Does anyone on this forum know the business model of a newsstand? How can they compete when every grocery store and drug store has a magazine section?
And I wish Jax downtown and our sub-urban 'towncenters' looked like this, www.southlaketownsquare.com
Southlake built their brand new city hall directly into their shopping district with all the retail stores having offices above and an entire area of old-looking brownstones for residential living. If downtown Jax would approach their infill with this idea...to bring in NATIONAL retail into existing and the new buildings, we might have something.
I like small-business as much as the next guy, but the truth is, people like and know the B&N's, the Cheesecake Factories, Eddie Bauer, and the like. Could you imagine how great it would be for downtown Jax to have all of these widely known stores as well as the existing small businesses? And it would all be within a short bike-ride for anyone living in Riverside or the surrounding communities.
You've definitely hit a nerve with me on this one. Barnes & Noble is one of the primary stores I go to that's outside of the core. It's not for the books though, it's for the magazines. I read a ton of magazines and most of them are British and the B&N at St. John's is the only place that carries them all. I would love to have a B&N or similar such store downtown or better yet just a decent news stand. Chamblin's magazine selection looks like a Walgreen's selection. I've even asked him to carry some of the magazines I like but he hasn't.
When I fist moved down here I sniffed out the 5 pt's newsstand. I was excited because I thought I had found a place where I could get both adult and non-adult magazines in one fell swoop. Boy was I disappointed. I agree with Ock above. It's sad that we don't even have a quality news stand in JAX.
QuoteHeck, the one on B&N on Atlantic has closed too!!!
I heard that this was their intention all along. Apparently they don't think JAX can support more than 1 B&N.
Quote from: Deuce on July 20, 2009, 10:47:04 AM
QuoteHeck, the one on B&N on Atlantic has closed too!!!
I heard that this was their intention all along. Apparently they don't think JAX can support more than 1 B&N.
aren't you forgetting about the store on San Jose in Mandarin?
Didn't know about that one. I never get to Mandarin. As far as I'm concerned it's another city like Orange Park.
Please try to read all of this:
A mom and pop store would be great, though it seems like a far reach. The reason being you need to have one hell of a business plan to compete with the Books-A-Millions and offer something unique, something Jacksonville. You also would need to have a physical location and an internet location to be really competitive. Reason being: people buy books from the store for the customer service or they want to get a magazine or some coffee too while they are out, of course you can't mark down in store books really low but you can have an online store where people can order books at internet prices. I would be more apt to buy books online from a Jacksonville seller than I am from some random person on Amazon.
On how to make a very competitive book store
Have it like Chamblins with the used book thing going on, but MUCH MUCH more organized and customer friendly. Chamblins is so overwhelming and it is sad that the people that work there sometimes have no clue if they have such and such book in stock. So the bookstore would have to have a great database, searchable from the internet and from inside the store (and if it is like Chamblins a freaking map pointing to where the book is!) but the database would be awesome so if you are looking for a book you can search it up have it ordered or simply go in the store and find it. There would need to be a lot less clutter in the store and maybe even an offsite storage facility for all the books. The book store could also be designed very efficiently so that all the space is made of use. The store would also need some kind of membership part where members actually benefit and get constant updates via email about what’s going on in the book store. There should be wifi and its use should be encouraged. The book store should advertise viciously at the Riverside Arts Market and basically all the festivals and etc in town. A lot of people know of Chamblins because of the amount of time it has been around, but when was the last time you saw a commercial, billboard, or simple advertising Chamblins?
For the cafe side the store should have some killer cup cakes, cookies, and cakes from Bakeries in/around Riverside (Let them eat Cake, Choux), sandwiches from a local deli. Monthly eating clubs (imagine getting cooking advice from a Chef from Orsay or something), reading clubs, history clubs should be hosted by the store. Also the cafe needs to be able to serve a mean cup of coffee it’ll give people another excuse to go there.
The reason why stores like B and N work is because of foot traffic!
Right now Beef O'Bradys seems to create some night life in Riverside, at least when I drive by on Friday or Saturday nights that place looks like a hoot. There would definitely be a constant flow of customers for the book store wandering from Five Points looking for a place to relax, and read without going all the way down to the Starbucks (which can be cluttered too) across from Memorial Park. Or imagine coming from Riverside Arts Market for a place to cool off and grab a drink… The foot traffic is there the bookstore if placed at the Oak street position would be a beautiful link the Publix/Memorial Side of Riverside to the actual Five Points.
There needs to be professionalism too. Underground Coffee (the coffee place closed down in san marco) lacked this sometimes due to the "hipsters" that worked there, but when you are working for a professional company you need to be able to take off the skinny jeans and pretentious attitude and be ready to serve people with a smile.
I have done a little internet goading and gathered some data:
Books A Million Locations Currently 4 in Jacksonville
http://www.booksamillion.com/storefinder?id=4481037913151#aMap
Four books a million strategically placed, but for some reason there are none in the core.
Borders Locations Currently 1 in Jacksonville, they might be more willing to expand if their market numbers seem good or if they could be improved (A lost cause?)
Barnes and Nobles Location Currently 2 in Jacksonville, 1 in St. Augustine
I will be emailing the CEO/Gatekeepers to whoever is in charge of expanding of Books A Million and Barnes and Noble and tell them about Jacksonville's urban core and the need of a book store / café, I will also tell them about the Riverside Arts Market and etc. All the foot traffic is in place... The only thing I am worried about is parking. Does anyone have any ideas of where people could park?
Yesterday after driving around I spotted where the old Roosevelt theater used to be (now torn down filled with Crispers, Goodwill and the likes... yes that place) Seems like a good candidate for expansion and a nice compromise but the foot traffic will not be there, maybe even in Murray Hill seems like a good candidate, but once again not so much foot traffic.
Also didn't know about John Gorrie renovation project... that area too near 13 Gypsies would be a good place and the parking is there!
Quote
I will be emailing the CEO/Gatekeepers to whoever is in charge of expanding of Books A Million and Barnes and Noble and tell them about Jacksonville's urban core and the need of a book store / café,
That's a great idea. The central core is definitely under-served.
I don't like the way Chamblin's is laid out either.
While up north last week, I noticed the new Borders in the heart of downtown Detroit had gone out of business. Aren't these chains struggling nationwide? Are they still expanding?
Chamblins did have a cafe in their store on Roosevelt. Ron use to live in the back, maybe he still does. He built an airplane in another part of that building. As he needed more space he went into his spaces. That is why its so much like a maze. I could not imagine having to pull everything out to get it organized. The last article I read about his business (within the past 10 months) he exclaimed that it was the first time he was in the black. Can you imagine after 30 years to be able to say that? It is so hard running a business. How many of you go to Barnes and Nobles, grab some magazines, hang out and not buy any of them? I'm guilty.
Chambins is unique. Why turn it into a box like store. Relax and learn the layout. It does make sense if you go often enough. Maps are on every end of aisles. Its fun.
Quote from: Galois on July 20, 2009, 12:06:26 PM
The reason why stores like B and N work is because of foot traffic!
Right now Beef O'Bradys seems to create some night life in Riverside, at least when I drive by on Friday or Saturday nights that place looks like a hoot.
I assume you mean O'Brothers Irish Pub?
I was about to post how nice it would be to have an independent book store like Olsson's Books & Records in the D.C. region, but then I found out from their website that they were in chap 7. This would have perfectly served the needs of the core. A nice independent store, not a big box retailer that carried new books (I personally don't like used books).
I'm beginning to rethink my usage of Amazon to buy books. I love the features that they have: no sales tax, free delivery (I always wait until I can make an order over 25), and since I have an Amazon credit card, 3% back. It makes it hard for book store to compete when the online retailer is already 8-10% cheaper before discounts are factored in. I don't want to see book stores go the way of record stores (I really miss Tower records). Perhaps changes to sales tax laws for online retailers will level the playing field. I think I might stop making book purchases on Amazon.
Yes O'Brothers Irish Pub is what I meant sorry.
Wow, I didn't know Chamblin's once had a cafe. I've been going to Chamblin's for a while (maybe 5 years or so) so I know how to use the store, however lets say I want to get a few travel guides for San Francisco because I am going to take a vacation there. Would it not be easier to goto chamblinsbookmine.com and search to see what books they have concerning my trip? Or should I hop in my car, waste gas, just to be dissapointed? The database could easily be created all you have to do is scan ISBN numbers x however many books chamblins has, stick it in the database and then run through the database and create a script that gets the rest of the information about the book from the internet using the ISBN number (try typing an isbn number into google...). Chamblins is great, I love the atmosphere and it beats many other book stores trying the same thing (there is another book store like Chamblins near the University of Chicago it is in an old church, really nice but only news books), but Chamblins could be better and more digitally inclined.
And of course it is hard running a business but you can always make it better.
If the 5-points news shop is selling porn, what does that say about the state of the residents in the Riverside area? Has it fallen to such a seedy level?
galois,
chamberlins Downtown has a cafe, not the one off Roosevelt.
mtrainjax,
very funny....
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 23, 2009, 12:28:50 AM
If the 5-points news shop is selling porn, what does that say about the state of the residents in the Riverside area? Has it fallen to such a seedy level?
They're kept in business by the bottled up married guys of Avondale.
There is a space available in the strip center that has the San Marco theatre and Square One. It's an end unit and there is a lot of pretty glass. That would be a good fit. In reference to offering something "Jacksonville" as opposed to the big chains, that's exactly what an independent bookstore would be. I don't think a big store like b & n would get the volume they need or find a suitable space. The space in that strip center is going for about 30 psf though so you definitely need some start up to keep you afloat for a while. Just my opinion.
There is already a bookstore in San Marco directly across the square from where you are describing.
Books and magazines are so 20th century.
I agree, just not books a million. They are a horrible company that treats their employees poorly. Borders would be my top choice out of the chains but I don't think they are doing so well especially since the opening of the St Johns towns center. Barnes and Noble would be great and there is definitely enough foot traffic on College street by John Gorrie
Quote from: thelakelander on July 20, 2009, 12:19:33 PM
While up north last week, I noticed the new Borders in the heart of downtown Detroit had gone out of business. Aren't these chains struggling nationwide? Are they still expanding?
They must have been offering free wi-fi. just kidding.
Yes, nationally all of them are suffering and closing some outlets. They have had little if any representation at the deal-making conferences this year.
QuoteThey're kept in business by the bottled up married guys of Avondale.
I thought the Metro was their secret hangout?