Today is apparently the day for Flash Gordon Style Headlines, but this is pretty damned interesting:
I wonder how long before the punditocracy notices that there is certainly a whole hell of a lot of international energy going into the New Space Race.
Top Contenders: The Russians, The Americans, The Chinese, and The Indians.
For a bunch of historical colonialists, The EU seems to be in a state of paralysis.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/15/mars-flight-simulation-6-_n_233772.html
QuoteMOSCOW -- Russian engineers broke a red wax seal and six men emerged from a metal hatch after 105 days of isolation in a mock spacecraft, still smiling after testing the stresses that space travelers may face on the journey to Mars.
Sergei Ryazansky, the captain of the six-man crew, told reporters at a Moscow research institute near the Kremlin on Tuesday that the most difficult thing was knowing that instead of making the 172-million mile (276-million kilometer) journey they were locked in a windowless module of metal canisters the size of railway cars.
The men, chosen from 6,000 applicants, were paid euro15,000 ($20,987) each to be sealed up in the mock space capsule since March 31_ cut off almost entirely from the outside world.
They had no television or Internet and their only link to the outside world was communications with the experiment's controllers -- who also monitored them via TV cameras -- and an internal e-mail system. Communications with the outside world had 20-minute delays to imitate a real space flight.
Each crew member had his personal cabin. The interiors had hatches similar to a submarine's and were paneled in faux wood according to Soviet style of the 1970s, when the structure was originally built for space-related experiments.
The module's entrance was locked with a padlock and red sealing wax and twine -- the kind that Soviet government bureaucrats have used for years to close up their offices at the end of the work day.
Common facilities included a gym and a small garden, and the modules were equipped with the new European and Russian exercise and training equipment for biomedical research. The crew also specially prepared meals and used toilets closely resembling those on the space station.
Some veteran space explorers belittled the value of the experiment, but its backers at the Russian and European space agencies insist it will only move humans closer to a real mission.
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"What we're doing is important for future missions exploring the solar system," said Simonetta Di Pipo, director of the human space flight program at the European Space Agency.
"The most difficult part was that the flight was not for real," Ryazansky, wearing a blue, NASA-style jumpsuit with a large patch reading "MARS 500," told reporters hours after he and the crew emerged from the modules.
Crew member Alexey Baranov complained that the worst thing was not being with his relatives: "The separation from my loved ones and nature was depressing."
Russian TV showed images of the men -- four Russians, a German and a Frenchman -- during their stay, conducting experiments, lifting weights or lounging in leather reclining chairs, surrounded by throw pillows and Oriental rugs.
The men said most of them gained weight during their stay, exercising much of the time, and running experiments for medical researchers.
Psychologist Olga Shevchenko said they avoided conflicts thanks to a busy schedule and intense physical training. However, she said they all complained being deprived of sights of the natural world and separation from their families.
While officials at the Institute for Medical and Biological Problems praised the experiment as a success and promised to conduct a 500-day simulation experiment later this year, some veterans of the Soviet or Russian space programs doubted its value.
"This is nothing but a test for a long isolation of average people," a two-time cosmonaut Valentin Lebedev wrote in an opinion column published in the Sovietskaya Rossiya newspaper daily last month. "Such an experiment has only vague relation to understanding the possibility of interplanetary flight."
The experiment was the second for the institute, whose previous effort in 1999 ended in scandal when a Canadian woman complained of being forcibly kissed by a Russian captain and said that two Russian crew members had a fist fight that left blood splattered on the walls.
Russian officials at the time downplayed the incidents, attributing it to cultural gaps and stress.
Soviet engineers also tried a similar yearlong experiment, but that was interrupted because of unending conflicts between crew members.
Interesting experiment.
To finally hear of legitimate talks and movement on a manned mission to Mars is absolutely amazing.
Wouldn't the flight to Mars take 3 years? I think I remember reading that somewhere.
The trip to Mars would take 7 to 9 months depending on the route taken. The return trip is another story... depending on the length of time on Mars... remember earth and mars are orbiting the sun at different rates so a return trip is likely to take much longer...
With the world economy the way it is, the Europeans are taking on things that are of the utmost priority, and right now in my opinion I don't think going to Mars is. There are more pressing issues and items on the world scene than going to Mars; better take care of the turmoil down here first before going to Mars.
I don't think they (the Russkies) have been training for this mission very long. They'd better be training hard, long, and with great conviction for a trip of this magnitude, or else it will end up in disaster.
If I were America, I wouldn't be too jealous of the Russkies trying to take on a feat of this magnitude. Something tells me the timing is all wrong, and I truly believe that Russia should have made this an international effort; it would have saved them a lot more money and its better to have 3 to 5 heads rather than one in an undertaking such as this.
We shall see whether they will be successful, but something tells me that if they go it alone it won't be long before disaster and catastrophe erupts after lift off.
Heights Unknown
I disagree. There was quite a bit of economic and social unrest in the 60's when we went to the moon. There will always be "something better to spend our money on". A race to Mars by Russia, China, and the U.S. would actually be good for the world. The first step in going to Mars is to renew our exploration of the moon. Learning how to exist for long periods on the moon will be great training for a trip to and a stay on Mars...
Pump some of those Obama bucks into NASA!
I disagree. Pump some of those Obama bucks into education, the economy, jobs, etc. Get the economy moving, finances flowing, and people back to work before considering going to Mars. There was social unrest in the 60's, but the economy wasn't that bad, especially not as bad as now; so you're off key in that respect Bridge Troll. The money really isn't there for a nation to singularly go to Mars, but a joint effort would be more ecnomically and financially feasible relative to a global/international effort.
Heights Unknown
So you are saying that the money spent during the 60's and 70's going to the moon would have been better spent on "education, the economy, and jobs etc"? Would those problems have been solved or even alleviated had we not gone to the moon? Of course not... the same holds true for a Mars mission project.
There will always be those who would rather spend the money "here on earth" rather than pushing the boundaries of our existence... There is room for both...
I have to agree with Heights Unknown, our money is better spent elsewhere. I also think the private sector is doing more in space technology then NASA right now.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 16, 2009, 07:49:19 AM
So you are saying that the money spent during the 60's and 70's going to the moon would have been better spent on "education, the economy, and jobs etc"? Would those problems have been solved or even alleviated had we not gone to the moon? Of course not... the same holds true for a Mars mission project.
There will always be those who would rather spend the money "here on earth" rather than pushing the boundaries of our existence... There is room for both...
I agree, I do think that the space missions if preped for moon and mars missions would be good for some of the youth to strive for. Would require them to do better in school, mainly there is and nothing wrong with the technology that comes out of such projects either.
QuoteI also think the private sector is doing more in space technology then NASA right now.
It is not even close... ::)
These missions create jobs... they also inspire young and old alike... they expand our knowledge of the universe around us. Eventually mankind will have to leave this planet if it is to continue... best to start with baby steps now...
Considering what hit Jupiter not long ago, we need to get some of our people off this planet and on the way to the stars. I know I talk quite a bit about what I read in books -- but I'll remind members that practically everything we have now was once science fiction.
Take a look at Arthur C. Clarke's Rescue Mission, a novel he wrote long ago. Some of the things he talked about in his 3001, the Final Odyssey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3001:_The_Final_Odyssey), such as space elevators, are being looked at today. He came up with the idea of geosynchronous communications satellites and was recognized by the naming of their orbit -- the Clarke Orbit.
I'd like to see a casino in space or on the moon. I've often wondered why we haven't moved out into space during the past 40 years. I just hope we make it out of our solar system before than next 40 are gone.
I doubt it will happen, and if anyone looks deep into it our galxie and the neighbooring one are both doomed into a collission which will throw all the orbits out and who knows what else. Then again that is very far off.
I would love atleast in my lifetime to see a manned mission to mars, I hope its done by America. The technology that will come out of such missions and strive to win that race would be amazing and definatly worth it even if the actual mission wasnt.
If that is "very far off," why could we not do something in the meantime? As you have noticed, I use a Yoda avatar. I believe in this quote: Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
devlopment of new way of travil would probley be usefull in the mean time otherwise at current way of travil it would take lifetimes to colonise any other inhabbital planent for a long period of time safely.
and I liked Barriss Offee over yoda and her master personally :P
I'm not familiar with this character but she sounds interesting. I do like Yoda, though. As far as taking a lifetime -- one of the story lines often used in science fiction is the idea of "generation ships." I agree that another form of propulsion would be a good idea. The ideas of warp drive, worm holes and folding space are, I believe, actually being investigated. After all, if we could have built (a model actually was) aircraft carriers out of wood pulp and ice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk)), I think we can do just about anything.
I read some of the books, she is a wonderful character.
I believe one of Einstine's theories was that the shortest distance to point A to B is not a stright line. The shortest distance is using a worm hole for that type of distance. I tend to agree with that theory and hope to be around one day to see it. I believe that in time we will be able to do something of the sort but a faster way of travel(also safer) is needed even then.