Elements of Urbanism: San Diego
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/567313013_eqpZb-M.jpg)
San Diego may be the west coast's best example to follow in Jacksonville's efforts to revitalize the city by embracing sustainable urban development and fixed-mass transit.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-elements-of-urbanism-san-diego
San Diego is a very nice and expensive city. Not to put another knock on our home town, but inorder to have developments seen there you must have vision, leadership, and money of course and frankley we have neither. The good old boy routine that exist in this city will never let this type of development happen. We have been plagued for decades with poor decision making. We have made some improvements, but when you see cities like this you wonder if we will ever see anything like this.
Just to reiterate:
Quoteyou must have vision, leadership, and money
Any of those photos taken in June? I didn't realize how much I missed those purple jacarandas...
They were all taken in June.
Great article. Lots of in-depth analysis.
SD shows what Jax could be, if it REALLY wanted to.
great article Lake!
What an exciting Europeanesque looking city. The convention center is huge and looks great, with essential hotels located nearby. The city limits of San Diego are almost as big as duval county as a whole, and the city limits are not inclusive of the county. Our old city limits look pale and extremely small in comparison. This is the first time that I have viewed photos of San Diego and I am awestruck and impressed; doesn't look like an American City at all, clean, tidy, manicured (unless there are other blighted/run down areas that haven't been shown), and obviously as someone mentioned, there is quite a lot of money being thrown around. Jax could be San Diego with the right leadership, vision and focus. There is nothing that cannot be done and never say never; just need the right people to make it happen.
Heights Unknown
San Diego is one of my favorite cities. It has everything and a great climate to boot. Petco field is awesome and the gaslight district is also a lot of fun. They have some amazing historic hotels downtown and lots of different restaurants and things to do. They also are not held hostage by big churches, but are still very conservative there nonetheless due to the big presence of the military bases. With all that and the Mexican border nearby they've done a great job of creating an awesome american city!
San Diego is nice. Too me it is so much better than LA. Jacksonville is not the only large city with a large church downtown. Houston and Dallas both have mega churches Downtown and it hasnt seem to stop their downtown development. I believe it goes a lot deeper than just having a large church downtown. Poor leadserhip in urban development and no will power to get it done is our problem. Mind you not everyone who attends those large churches is anti-downtown!
Forget jacksonville, I'm ready to move to San Diego!
San Diego is a lot of fun it is amazing how people are outside all of the time. The boardwalk at the beach is a great time.
the big difference between all of the cities your Elements of Urbanism has covered and Jacksonville: Density, have a broad white collar employment, their not run by the southern baptist church, they aren't tearing down their historic urban fabric, their city leaders have a progressive visionary approach and no good ole boy network.
I've always loved San Diego. Its a Top 5 US city for me.
From what I have heard, the San Diego of the '80's is the Jacksonville of today.
Maybe there needs ot be an in-depth examination of SD post WW2 to see exactly how they took the path that lead them to where they are today.
Although it is not in DT proper, Balboa Park is a must see when visiting SD. It is a HUGE mega park that is well maintained and is the home of the world famous zoo, and about 10 museums.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 10, 2009, 10:20:38 AM
Forget jacksonville, I'm ready to move to San Diego!
In all due respect, "your bags are not packed yet?"
I hope you are not dissing our city. It is not the city's fault that it is stagnant in all areas of growth and prosperity. However, I feel your despair, frustration, etc. But don't diss our city.
Heights Unknown
heights unknown,
a new term for your vocabulary: sarcasm
I just recently visited San Diego, awesome city!
I do believe there is vision in Jacksonville, I just think the ones with the vision have no money or help from the city.
Obviously the Baptist Church is not going anywhere so why do we keep harping on it? There is plenty of land to develop and buildings to be renovated downtown.
The problems in our city come down to our government and yes I do believe we are being ran by a good ole boy system.
I hear a lot of negativity about Jacksonville and yes, I will admit, I am sometimes a part of that. How do we change our negativity into positivity and come up with solutions and start taking action? I read this site every morning and if there is this many people that want change and have amazing ideas than why hasn’t something happen. Because of Metro Jax and other sites these issues are being brought to the public and change is happening very very slowly. At times I feel like our city take a step forward and than does something to bring us back down. We will get there, I just hope it’s before we have distorted what is left of our amazing passed.
San Diego is a great town, and Jacksonville could be just as beautiful, I see so many comments about why Jacksonville can't be as nice and vibrant, but the truth to me seems to be that as much as any church, or politician is holding us back is this common sense of "can't do" that so many of us have regarding our city. I think we could do the things that would put us on par with these other cities, and we all need to be out there talking to everyone we know about why we can, believing that we can and demanding from local government more.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 10, 2009, 10:59:48 AM
From what I have heard, the San Diego of the '80's is the Jacksonville of today.
Maybe there needs ot be an in-depth examination of SD post WW2 to see exactly how they took the path that lead them to where they are today.
That's exactly how I felt when I visited there.....the two cities have much in coimmon but one is 10-20 years ahead of the other.
Well Ron Burgundy says that San Diego means "a whale's vagina". I'll still with Jacksonville! :)
Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 10, 2009, 11:31:02 AM
heights unknown,
a new term for your vocabulary: sarcasm
"Jax Native," please re-read my post, I did say "respectfully" and I meant that; sarcasm was not wholly meant to be exuded, but, I am very pro-Jacksonville so please forgive me if I came across too aggressive or even sarcastic in your own mind. Thanks.
P.S. - my vocabulary, believe me, is much more extensive than yours, however, I don't need to use big words to show that I am educated. Thanks again.
Heights Unknown
Such a deal! I've got the perfect way for San Diego to clean up C-Street~!
Let's trade them even for Water Street!
Heights Unknown, my friend, if San Diego makes you swoon, Spokane, Seattle and Portland would kill you man.
OCKLAWAHA
heights unknown-
I've taken nothing personal and no way have found you aggressive or sarcastic; I was actually alluding to me being sarcastic, not you. Trust me, I was not trying to take a shot at your intellect or the extent of your education. By reading your posts it is obvious that you are intelligent, but if you would like to get together for a spelling or vocabulary test, you might find yourself scratching your head. And that will be due to my ineptness :)
Don't take life so seriously, it makes it hard to enjoy.
Jason-
Jacksonville means "manatee vagina" . . . or was it Cowford, anyway are you still with Jacksonville?
(http://southerndocumentaryfund.org/uploads/images/river_city_rising.jpg)
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on July 10, 2009, 06:43:34 PM
(http://southerndocumentaryfund.org/uploads/images/river_city_rising.jpg)
Absolutely one of my favorite pictures concerning Jacksonville, check out the guy down below, does anyone know his name? Would have the same grin on my face
Can someone explain to me the notion that churches are somehow holding the city back.
Correction about the the old building in downtown Jacksonville. I don't think that Jacksonville would get a kick out of tearing down old buildings for the sake of just a flat surface parking lot (or a pocket park for that matter), with all due respect. They wanted to make more room for some big development. Then again, some of those old buildings could've been saved for something. But yet again, who would dare blame the city or the developers for wanting to see the projects be finalized and realized only to see some fall through the cracks. Things happened like a few other cities.
Quote from: heights unknown on July 10, 2009, 11:18:57 AM
Quote from: JaxNative68 on July 10, 2009, 10:20:38 AM
Forget jacksonville, I'm ready to move to San Diego!
In all due respect, "your bags are not packed yet?"
I hope you are not dissing our city. It is not the city's fault that it is stagnant in all areas of growth and prosperity. However, I feel your despair, frustration, etc. But don't diss our city.
Heights Unknown
I think all of us should never diss this city. I was born and raised in this city and I'm blessed to live here. I would never say anything rotten about it and never will.
Quote from: Orlanta on July 10, 2009, 08:29:23 PM
Can someone explain to me the notion that churches are somehow holding the city back.
I don't believe that the churches hold the city back. I think it's the city's ideas of how they run things, and how they vision the city will determine what will the city should be in the future. Jacksonville will be vibrant in time. It's just that they need to get a better vision of what they want and what WE all want to see in this town. And sometimes the city would need OUR help in making the city better.
While attending gas free engineering school at the navy base in San Diego I was surprised to see that they close off the gas lamp district and have a huge Mardi Gras celebration. How is it possible that a city that has zero French history can celebrate Mardi Gras but Jacksonville that has french history as far back as the 1500s cant. Its mind blowing that this city does not realize how much money Mardi Gras could bring in
Fort Caroline and St. Augustine
1492 Columbus discovers the New World.
1513 Florida discovered by Ponce de Leon.
1562, May 2 Ribault a French Huguenot, sent to the New World by Gaspard de Coligny, Admiral of France, discovers the St. Johns he "caused a pillar of hard stone to be planted within saye River, and not far from the mouth of the same upon a little sandie knappe, in which pillar the Armes of the King of France were carved and engraved." He sails further north to Port Royal S.C., and leaves 26 men there founding Charlesfort. These men later abandon the fort and are found adrift near England after having cannibalized one of their group. Ribault returns to France.
1562 July Ribault arrives in France to find that the Wars of Religion have begun. He is at the seige of Dieppe, when it falls to Catholics he flees to England, later imprisoned there.
1563 May French War ended by Treaty of Amboise
1564, April 22 Rene Goulaine de Laudonniere, Ribault's leutinenat on the first voyage sails for St. Johns to establish colony, Ribault is still in prision in England.
1564 June 22-25 The French arrive at St. Johns. The Indians have left food and flowers at the column in some sort of worship. After some time Laudonniere establishs Fort Caroline under St. Johns Bluff. Colony has problems with Indians, several plots against de Luadonniere's life, and mutinies. Some of the Mutineers steal the colonies boats and raid the Spainish West Indies. The French failed to conserve supplies and began to barter for food with the Indians, this led to the taking of the local King as hostage. Laudonniere decides to return to France. They begin to build a boat.
1565, August 3 John Hawkins arrives looking for Charlesfort, trades food and a ship to the French for guns and ammo.
1565, August 28 As they prepare to leave Ribault arrives with a relief fleet of 600 colonists and 7 ships. He relives Laudonniere of command. Several colonists who had returned to France (the earlier mutineers) claimed Laudonniere believed himself the king of New France. Ribault has been ordered to defend the colony and prevent the Spainish from founding one here.
1565, August 28 Spanish under Pedro Menendez de Aviles lands at the River of Dolphins with 19 ships, 1054 men including craftsmen, wives, children and livestock.
1565, September 5 Spanish ships arrive at the St. Johns. French sail off and Spanish who are unable to catch them return to the River of Dolphins.
1565, September 8 St. Augustine founded.
1565, September 10 Ribault ordered by Coligny not to allow Menendez to settle takes his ships to St. Augustine despite a coming storm.
1565, September 11 Ribault arrives at St. Augustine and almost catches Menendez in a small boat offshore. The Spanish ships sail for Hispaniola. Unable to cross the bar Ribault prepares to return to the St. Johns when the storm hits and scatters his ships southward. Menendez marches overland in the storm to Ft. Caroline.
1565 Sept. 20 Menendez takes Fort Caroline, some French escape including Laudonniere. 70 women and children aer captured. Others are hanged as heretic Lutherans. Menendez renames the fort Ft. Mateo since it was taken on St. Matthew's day.
1565. Sept 28 First Matanzas massacre. Ft. Mateo burns and is rebuilt later.
1565, Oct 12 Second Matanzas massacre. Ribault killed.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-moncrief-springs-crown-jewels-of-jacksonville
Maybe because the french history of jacksonville stopped in 1565? If you want to have a Mardi Gras more power to ya. Personally never needed an excuse to get drunk, but apparently some do. Could attract some folks to downtown, particularly since there has been more club activtiy down there.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on July 10, 2009, 06:43:34 PM
(http://southerndocumentaryfund.org/uploads/images/river_city_rising.jpg)
Wow! Why don't women sport "MATTERHORNS" like that anymore? These days they sag, droop, drag, and drape. Oh, I know why, because they show the real thing now and don't leave anything to the imagination anymore. Anyhoo, I think she is so beautiful sporting her mountainous "tats." Ah, the good and gracious things of the past!
By the way, is that Mayor Hans Tanzler looking so happy with his sh** eating grin? I would be too.
Heights Unknown
By the way everyone, that is actress Lee Meredith (dammit), along with her jutting tats, posing with Mayor Hans Tanzler way back when (1968?).
Heights Unknown
Read this link for more french history
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-moncrief-springs-crown-jewels-of-jacksonville
I recently attended a convention in San Diego and I was very impressed by this city. I stayed at the Hotel Solamar in the Gaslight District. When I first arrived, I took a walking tour of the area. There was an excellent selection of retail, dining and entertainment. Petco Park was only blocks away from my hotel. Especially on baseball game nights, the city was alive with people on the streets well into the night.
I enjoyed my experience at the convention center. I was within walking distance of my hotel and had ample space for our convention, exhibitors, registration, etc. It was adjacent to two trolley stations.
I took advantage of the trolley, purchasing a four-day pass for only $14. One-way tickets are $2.50 and one-day passes are $5. I went as far as the San Ysidro station to the south to visit Mexico and out to the Middletown area to walk over to Balboa Park. I made one special trip to 24th Street Station to get lunch at In-n-Out.
Overall, San Diego was a city that made me want to move west. It is an example of a well-planned city that we would gain a lot from studying.
As for the folks who feel that powerful churches are hampering our city's growth/progress, many people do believe that downtown Jacksonville won't have a nightlife like San Diego, Tampa or Atlanta because there are powerful religious leaders who oppose expansion of nightclubs and bars in downtown Jacksonville.
Another issue in Jacksonville is the wholesale destruction of the local history. The problem does lie in the lack of a comprehensive plan for the city. Jacksonville moves forward in fits and starts and ends up a jumble of false starts and vacant lots. Shipyards project? Hot dog stands on the Main Street Bridge? D--n shame...
With regard to 'dissing' the city, I agree with those who are frustrated that more is not being done in our city. I think that the dissing is a challenge for us all to move Jacksonville forward...
Sorry to stay a bit off topic, but for those interested in that picture (as I was!:D ) the jax historical society has info on it:
http://www.jaxhistory.com/journal11.html
Scroll down to "Consolidation's Most Famous Photo"
Quote from: jeh1980 on July 10, 2009, 09:54:02 PM
I think all of us should never diss this city. I was born and raised in this city and I'm blessed to live here. I would never say anything rotten about it and never will.
Everyone should stop taking a comments written on this thread so seriously and personally, a little humor and the ability to laugh at yourself and your city can go along way towards open conversation and less decisions being made behind closed doors.
And really, no comments on the "Manatee Vagina" comment. People where's your sense of humor?
Walking around with blinders on is the last thing anyone needs to do. Especially if you care about the city which I believe most on here do. For to long many have ignored the problems in this city or just dont care. I wish the city the best, but its going to be very difficult with the leadership we have in place. Now back to San Diego, what an unlimited amount of different transit, shopping, etc right downtown.
don't forget an unlimited amount of homeless people (just like Jax) too!
Wait, you didn't notice them? That's because, unlike Jacksonville, there were als other people on the streets...so the homeless don't stand out.
Pointless, because all cities have homeless issues New York. Miami etc. So I'll put the mute button on for ya.