Imagine a City of 100,000 that has nearly as many transit riders as JTA in a City of 1.3 Million... Using nothing more then a commitment to livability, a Transit Foundation, and some advanced thought. Wonder what their road repair bill is next to ours?OCKLAWAHAQuoteMayor Kevin C. Foy accepted the first place City Livability Award on behalf of the Town of Chapel Hill, N.C., during the 2009 Mayors' City Livability Awards Program. More than 200 cities from around the country were considered for the award, based on three criteria: mayoral leadership, creativity and innovation, and broad impact on the quality of life for residents.
Sponsored by Waste Management, Inc., and the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the City Livability Award Program recognizes mayors for exemplary leadership in developing and implementing programs that improve the quality of life in their cities.
Chapel Hill won top honors in the category for cities with populations of under 100,000 for creating the fare-free transit program. Since Chapel Hill Transit became fare free in 2002, it has become the second-largest transit system in North Carolina. Since that time, ridership has risen from 3 million riders a year to over 7 million riders annually projected for 2009.
This program is unique in that while some university transit systems provide fare free service for university students, faculty and staff, very few communities provide free transit service to all riders. The commitment in this community went beyond the University to all citizens in the community in an effort to encourage greater usage of public transportation and reduction of reliance on the single occupancy automobile.
"The Chapel Hill Public Transit system is the foundation of our sustainable future," said Mayor Foy. "This bus system makes Chapel Hill continue to be the kind of place people love; for us it is an investment and it has paid off big time."
The town is planning a special community event to celebrate this distinguished award and recognize the contribution of our fare-free system for the community. Event details are being arranged and will be released soon.
Free? Somebody is paying for it. Hopefully they are making voluntary contributions to this charity.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 30, 2009, 06:14:02 PM
Free? Somebody is paying for it. Hopefully they are making voluntary contributions to this charity.
Yes, FREE, as in Interstates - Expressways - AKA: FREEways.
Nobody said the transit was free to own or operate, what they said was it is FARE free. All this means is they have used some creative method of financing the O&M as well as Capital costs of their system. There are a million ways to do this, but we MUST be creative: How about "CASH FOR CLUNKERS?" "The Jacksonville Streetcar Trust," when you want to give back to your city - accepting donations of properties..." All sorts of cool stuff, could be done, but sadly we don't even offer free transfers. OCKLAWAHA
maybe UNC is paying for it....as stated, many universities offer "free" rides, usually through a transportation fee assesed to students, faculty, etc.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 30, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
maybe UNC is paying for it....as stated, many universities offer "free" rides, usually through a transportation fee assesed to students, faculty, etc.
UNC is not paying for this one, which is the main reason it hit the news like it did, and won the award. I do believe you are correct in as much as I believe the University started it. The story goes that the Trust that was set up for its support, decided it could serve the whole community.
By the way, TUFSU1, FARE FREE is an amazing new transit movement that is sweeping the industry and gaining ground. There are some who are holding out with all sorts of issues, but generally rather then budget, it appears social. Those persons who are fighting the fare free movement are the same faces that believe one bus per hour is all the poor and degenerate bus passengers deserve.
http://frepubtra.blogspot.com/ OCKLAWAHA
OC - You are wrong, we do offer free service to the senior citizens. They have special cards, with a library number on the back, for them to gain FREE access to all JTA vehicles in Duval County. Not just the elderly vehicles, ALL vehicles of the JTA. To learn more, contact Adult Services down at the City or visit the Mary Singleton Center at 150 First street, where the cards are produced for the senior citizens.
QuoteUNC is not paying for this one
Wrong. Actually, UNC is paying for this- well at least the students are. UNC is one of the largest funders of this system. They pay for it using a fee that is added to each students tuition. I believe it was $66 for FY 08/09. They do this in other university towns as well- Gainesville for example.
and to add onto cline's point, UNC may be covering more than it share of the bill....for several reasons:
1. to be good community partners
2. allows Chapel Hill and UNC campus to stay bucolic
3. traffic delays caused by non-university trips still affect students, faculty, etc.
QuoteThis program is unique in that while some university transit systems provide fare free service for university students, faculty and staff, very few communities provide free transit service to all riders. The commitment in this community went beyond the University to all citizens in the community in an effort to encourage greater usage of public transportation and reduction of reliance on the single occupancy automobile.
"The Chapel Hill Public Transit system is the foundation of our sustainable future," said Mayor Foy. "This bus system makes Chapel Hill continue to be the kind of place people love; for us it is an investment and it has paid off big time."
My mistake, should have written that UNC AND the town work together on this one. Either way, it's still a very good idea when a town 1/10 our size can put as many passengers on mass transit as JTA. BTW, UNF has it's own bus system... JU anyone? MTrain, I'm not talking about senior or handicap citizen transit here, this is about everybody in their town. OCKLAWAHA
QuoteAll sorts of cool stuff, could be done, but sadly we don't even offer free transfers.
My point is that the CITY DOES OFFER FREE transfers to anyone over 65 on JTA equipment.
QuoteJU anyone
Does JU need a bus system? Does JU offer classes outside of the Arlington campus? Would it be feasible at all?
FCCJ would be a better investment, since it has 4 campus locations (downtown, Kent, Southside, and Northside).
I bet the entire system of JTA's could be fare free for a few years, for less than the cost of adding a pair of HOV lanes on I-95 or JTB or some other such highway.
In Charleston, transit usage has risen dramatically from two DT universities offering $5 a month unlimited Express bus passes. The respective school covers the difference. The schools benefit by not having to provide as much parking, which in Charleston means expensive garages.
Quote from: mtraininjax on July 01, 2009, 07:52:24 AM
OC - You are wrong, we do offer free service to the senior citizens. They have special cards, with a library number on the back, for them to gain FREE access to all JTA vehicles in Duval County. Not just the elderly vehicles, ALL vehicles of the JTA. To learn more, contact Adult Services down at the City or visit the Mary Singleton Center at 150 First street, where the cards are produced for the senior citizens.
I'm going to further this quote by mentioning that the initial cost for these "Sunshine Passes" as they're known is $1.50. You would need to show proof of age by either a DL or ID card with photo.
The number to the Mary Singleton Sr. Center is 630-0995.
Quote from: vicupstate on July 01, 2009, 10:42:26 AM
I bet the entire system of JTA's could be fare free for a few years, for less than the cost of adding a pair of HOV lanes on I-95 or JTB or some other such highway.
This was the whole idea behind the posting of this transit news. bingo!
This is way deifferent then JTA's SUNSHINE PASS, This would be more like UNF operating JTA and offering free seats to anyone. OSU stillwate also operates city wide transit.
OCKLAWAHA
Laying on the floor watching all my hoses of stuff walk out the door.
urbanlibertarian: are you against public subsidy of profit-making firms? If so, you should be marching in the streets against the $trillions spent to support the auto system. Fuel taxes support only about 60 percent of hi-ways. Who pays for the medical costs, traffic congestion, "free" parking, cheap parking, drainage problems, noise, collision cleanup, carbon dioxide emissions, oil wars, direct tax-money handouts to oil and auto companies, government loan guarantees, tax breaks for auto plant site choice (including foreign auto firms), license bureaucracy, auto insurance government bureaucracy, health costs from driving stress, etc. For our list of autosprawl externalities, see http://freepublictransit.org/index.php?pr=Externalities
Quote from: vicupstate on July 01, 2009, 10:42:26 AM
I bet the entire system of JTA's could be fare free for a few years, for less than the cost of adding a pair of HOV lanes on I-95 or JTB or some other such highway.
Ock, is there any way we can access this information (as far as how much revenue JTA buses take in/how many riders per route, etc)?
ftpeditors wrote:
"urbanlibertarian: are you against public subsidy of profit-making firms? If so, you should be marching in the streets against the $trillions spent to support the auto system. Fuel taxes support only about 60 percent of hi-ways. Who pays for the medical costs, traffic congestion, "free" parking, cheap parking, drainage problems, noise, collision cleanup, carbon dioxide emissions, oil wars, direct tax-money handouts to oil and auto companies, government loan guarantees, tax breaks for auto plant site choice (including foreign auto firms), license bureaucracy, auto insurance government bureaucracy, health costs from driving stress, etc. For our list of autosprawl externalities, see http://freepublictransit.org/index.php?pr=Externalities"
Yes, I am against all the Bush-Obama bailouts and all subsidies (including agriculture), tax breaks, regulations and tarriffs that businesses get politicians to enact for them. I consider it corporate welfare and it's very costly to consumers and taxpayers. I would be marching in the streets against it if it wasn't so ingrained in our culture and government. I have nothing against transit but the main reason that people put up with all those externalities is that automobiles are VERY convenient compared to other modes of transportation and people value the personal freedom they get for the cost and aggravation of those externalities. IMO we have too little personal freedom, not too much.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on July 03, 2009, 09:10:06 PM
I have nothing against transit but the main reason that people put up with all those externalities is that automobiles are VERY convenient compared to other modes of transportation and people value the personal freedom they get for the cost and aggravation of those externalities. IMO we have too little personal freedom, not too much.
While I agree in general with your views on personal freedom, when it comes to automobiles, we have to realize the true cost that goes along with them. At the moment, cars are being produced by companies who are heavily subsidized (both US and foreign automakers) and are being powered by energy sources that predominately spread wealth outside the US and heavily pollute the atmosphere. When the new EPA regulations are enacted next year that include stricter ground-level ozone standards, Jacksonville (along with many other cities I'm sure) is at risk of not meeting the standards. I'm pretty sure if we are below standards, we can't access federal funding of roads, highways, etc although I'm not entire sure how the rules work. Not only that, our highways have torn apart neighborhoods (see I-95 on the Northside), created lots of controversy (I'm looking at you Outer Beltway), contributed to increased sprawl, and have done little to alleviate our traffic issues.
I think if we had a free transit system, more people would ride it. If more people were riding it, we could increase service. If we could increase service, even more people would ride it, and it could snowball from there.
I'm of the opinion that a hour long public transit commute is better than a 30 minute commute in my car (although I'm sure I'm in the minority there). I like riding transit because I can interact with people, I can read, I can relax, I can nap - I can do a lot of things I can't do in my car. I'm not saying everyone should dump their car, because there are times when it is virtually necessary. That said, I live in Jacksonville and I only use my car a few times a month - if I have a meeting during work hours, I need to haul something, or if I need to go somewhere outside the 'Jacksonville metro.'
I think an improved transit system would lead to a much more vibrant downtown and could potentially transform Jacksonville and NE FL.
Cars are only more convenient when we build our cities for them. When we build around transit, that is more convenient.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/commuter_rail/SanDiego-TOD.jpg)
Quote from: Lunican on July 04, 2009, 02:19:59 PM
Cars are only more convenient when we build our cities for them. When we build around transit, that is more convenient.
excellent point.
If people gravitate towards more urban living and mass transit voluntarily, that's great. That's what has happened in big cities. I live downtown because it's the lifestyle I freely chose. I just don't think the government should push people into lifestyles they don't prefer. Let things happen freely, voluntarily and naturally. Resist the temptation to dictate how people live. It's Independence Day, baby.
^Then you should hate our government. We've been forced into a lifestyle of sprawl in this community for over five decades, due to local government enforced laws and planning that facilitates sprawl. What you see today in Jax did not happen freely, voluntarily or naturally.
Anyway, I agree that we should force people to live a certain way. People should have a choice. Right now (in Jacksonville) those who love sustainability and urbanism, don't have much of a choice.
Hate is too strong a word but I dislike and disagree with government restrictions on density and building height and parking requirements. I think they needlessly hamper development and growth in urban areas like downtown, Springfield, San Marco and Brooklyn. It's the suburban majority dictating to the sustainable urbanist minority. I don't think we have to replace suburban with urban or vice versa. Let's have both and let individuals decide for themselves.
Quote from: 9a is my backyard on July 03, 2009, 08:41:42 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on July 01, 2009, 10:42:26 AM
I bet the entire system of JTA's could be fare free for a few years, for less than the cost of adding a pair of HOV lanes on I-95 or JTB or some other such highway.
Ock, is there any way we can access this information (as far as how much revenue JTA buses take in/how many riders per route, etc)?
This is just a quick check in from my new pad in St. Johns County (Urban Living - Colombian Style).
Nothing is really hooked up yet so I'll be missing for a few more days.
JTA, through Mike Miller, could supply you with the exact numbers. Meanwhile the national average numbers for city bus transit is 75% of cost is labor, 25% of expense is covered by the fare box.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: 9a is my backyard on July 04, 2009, 12:49:04 PM
I think if we had a free transit system, more people would ride it. If more people were riding it, we could increase service. If we could increase service, even more people would ride it, and it could snowball from there.
if the system was frree, where would the funds come from to increase service?
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 05, 2009, 11:45:53 PM
Quote from: 9a is my backyard on July 04, 2009, 12:49:04 PM
I think if we had a free transit system, more people would ride it. If more people were riding it, we could increase service. If we could increase service, even more people would ride it, and it could snowball from there.
if the system was frree, where would the funds come from to increase service?
Certainly JTA could not continue as an annual appropriation, we would need a dedicated source backed by a solid revenue stream with a fixed budget. Another thought is ask JTA to go to a 6 month test with a flat .25 cent fare on ALL transit, all of the time. Another idea? .25 cent weekends (this could give us a longer term picture if we threw in Friday). It costs just as much to carry 5 people around at 1.00 each as it would to carry 20 at a quarter, and what effect would THAT have on the local roads? How much you want to bet they wouldn't lose a dime? OCKLAWAHA
The bank bailouts are in large part sprawl bailouts. Many of the worst underwater mortgages are houses built in the desert accessible by motor vehicle only. How to pay for free public transit? Easy. Stop just 1 oil war. You could have free transit with red carpets and chandeliers. Free transit has been implemented in several municipalities for 60 basis points of tax. People should not wait for the federal government, it is controlled by oil, auto, and sprawl interests.
Here's an article on making transit "free" in New York City
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/07/03/how-driving-a-car-into-manhattan-costs-160/