QuotePeyton: 14 percent tax hike might be needed
Jacksonville mayor seeks revenue to fill $60 million hole in new budget
Jacksonville has a $60 million hole in its upcoming budget that might require a 14 percent property tax rate increase to fill, Mayor John Peyton told business and community leaders Tuesday.
Peyton floated the property rate tax hike idea during a private, invitation-only meeting at River City Brewing Co.
“Everyone, for the most part, was respectful. There was not much reaction,†said police union President Nelson Cuba, who was one of the 80 to 90 people in attendance.
The mayor’s office wouldn’t confirm any details from the meeting. Cuba said the mayor briefed the audience on the looming shortfall that threatens to chop away at city programs.
Full Article:
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-06-23/story/peyton_14_percent_tax_hike_might_be_needed
What will we be getting with this increase? Is this just to remain status quo or can we expect this to help fund a few projects that will boost the city's quality of life and spur additional economic development?
Either he talked before thinking, or he should fire is PR staff. He went about this in the completely wrong way. I posted to Adam H. awhile back, that the city needs to find places to cut first. Make a legitimate effort. I suggested a 5% pay cut, usually taken as a furlough for the entire county staff, minus emergency. There are also programs that are a waste of money, for example the program that renovates homes for the elderly in low income areas. I'm sorry, I love my grandma, but the city shouldn't be paying for things like that. Stop the handouts for starters.
Instead the mayor has managed to piss everyone off with talk of a 14% tax hike up front. Good luck trying to get even the reasonable folks to back this now. I agree, a small tax hike is necessary, and I was willing to pay it, but this is not a common sense way of approaching the taxpayers. You fix the pension and cut employee salaries first, a few extra programs, buy cheaper furnishings for the courthouse instead of luxury, sell some city land, etc. There are lots of ways to cut the budget first, then you approach the people and they are willing to listen as you have made a valiant effort to start. Good luck Mr. Mayor with this one. In my opinion you screwed up big time!
This would be why everyone in city government has been on the "less with less" message for the last two weeks.
Jacksonville already does not provide value for money. Like Lakelander, I'll go with an increase so long as the city shows me it is going for projects that back smart, sustainable development. (Read: not Metropolitan Park, no bid-contracts to cronies....) If the competency and vision of city government is not going to rise to meet the tax increase, then no thanks.
Why should they cut employee salaries? City employees are also city taxpayers just like you. Why should they lose when it was the voters who decided to cap property taxes despite warnings from experts who said it would make things worse in the long run.
I think that cutting employee salaries is counter-productive. It just feeds into the vicious cycle of recession that has occurred. I do support required unpaid furloughs of a couple weeks. While this amounts to a cut in salary for that year, it does allow future salaries to remain higher and more in line with the market (as it too will recover and all salaries will rise again). Plus you get some free vacation the way I see it. I have approached by own manager about this as while as our Union rep as they are currently go through negotiations for the next contract.
I wonder if Peyton and friends get a raise this year.
I might be more supportive if the revenues generated by this increase were targeted for specific projects or programs. Simply asking for 14% to go into the city's coffers for the general budget is a huge concern for me.
Quote from: hanjin1 on June 24, 2009, 10:36:08 AM
I wonder if Peyton and friends get a raise this year.
Peyton lives of a multimillion dollar trust fund, he shouldn't even take a paycheck from the taxpayers. His pay is like pennies in your pocket to you. As long as the people still buy Gate gas and the city fills up its tanks with Gate gas, it won't matter to him how much of a pay cut he or any of his cronies have to take. Its all monopoly money to him.
Dang, I don't even have a penny in my pocket right now. Damn you Peyton!
You know what? I'm selling my house and going back to renting. Why are the people who've made an investment in this city the ones who get the shaft?
And that is why I'm moving to Clay...
Maybe they needed some more money to plan more trips to France.
"Jacksonville has a $60 million hole in its upcoming budget that might require a 14 percent property tax rate increase to fill, Mayor John Peyton told business and community leaders Tuesday."
This couldn't be part of the original $62 million the city pissed away on the first two courthouse designs, could it? Or part of the other many highly over priced personal friend contracts Peyton has awarded. Peyton may go down as one of the most unproductive Jacksonville Mayors in history.
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 11:41:14 AM
And that is why I'm moving to Clay...
Maybe they needed some more money to plan more trips to France.
Good ridance, just don't go under the speed limit on 295 if I'm behind you. You couldn't pay me enough to live in a county with only 3 ways really out into the rest of the metro area.
Quote from: reednavy on June 24, 2009, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 11:41:14 AM
And that is why I'm moving to Clay...
Maybe they needed some more money to plan more trips to France.
Good ridance, just don't go under the speed limit on 295 if I'm behind you. You couldn't pay me enough to live in a county with only 3 ways really out into the rest of the metro area.
That's fine, because after the city raises your property taxes, adds more fee's and misspends your tax money you might not be able to afford you car to drive anywhere.
And I almost forgot, you might be able to afford your car but maybe not the gas after JEA hikes their rates....AGAIN.
QuoteAnd I almost forgot, you might be able to afford your car but maybe not the gas after JEA hikes their rates....AGAIN.
If you read the papes recently, you would see that JEA is able to lower the variable fuel rate this October, so the net change in utility costs will be downward not upward. Clay county is not going to be immune to rising rates either. All utilities face the same problems that caused JEA to raise it's rates.
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 12:27:47 PM
That's fine, because after the city raises your property taxes, adds more fee's and misspends your tax money you might not be able to afford you car to drive anywhere.
If you did your research, you would know I do not own property, and my partner is the landowner and pays the property taxes. Oh, and since when did Clay County no misspend money and such? I like how you really seem to give off this negative vibe about a lot of that this city has to offer.
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 12:30:42 PM
And I almost forgot, you might be able to afford your car but maybe not the gas after JEA hikes their rates....AGAIN.
That makes absolutely no sense. I'd rather pay JEA rates than FPL, which are higher. How does gasoline have to do with JEA rates?
The property tax in Duval county is already insane. I am moving to Massachusetts (AKA Taxchusetts)
Quote from: fatcat on June 24, 2009, 01:06:05 PM
The property tax in Duval county is already insane. I am moving to Massachusetts (AKA Taxchusetts)
Then get taxed on your income.
Quote from: fatcat on June 24, 2009, 01:06:05 PM
The property tax in Duval county is already insane. I am moving to Massachusetts (AKA Taxchusetts)
yes...insanely LOW....like 20% lower than any other major local government in FL
Quote from: jbroadglide on June 24, 2009, 10:18:12 AM
Why should they cut employee salaries? City employees are also city taxpayers just like you. Why should they lose when it was the voters who decided to cap property taxes despite warnings from experts who said it would make things worse in the long run.
agreed...City employees generally don't make that much anyway...and keep in mind that voters didn't just cap property taxes, they in fact voted to lower them statewide....of course that amendment did not actually pass in Duval County, but we're stuck with it anyway
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 11:41:14 AM
And that is why I'm moving to Clay...
Maybe they needed some more money to plan more trips to France.
good luck with that...let us know how much more you end up paying in impact fees, gas, tolls, etc.
also I do not like to suggest this, short term pay cut to city employees might be necessary because almost all businesses are having pay cuts.
The employees in the City are not the issue. What IS the issue is that Peyton cannot find a position and stick with it. He has more waffles than John Kerry did in the 2004 election. Peyton is a disaster, he is all over the place. Last week he wanted money to fix the fountain, then he wanted to go to Paris for an air show, this week, he wants more money to fix a shortfall. This is a chinese fire drill of errors. Where is Hollingsworth on these? Where is Clark? Some of the council people want to be mayor some day, now is the time to step out and show some leadership, make a name for themselves before 2011.
14% is not enough, where or how he got that number, no one will tell us. The City budget is like sitting down and reading a book in multiple languages, confusing, and a waste of time because it never tells you the whole story. Could we get an auditor who can sit down and spell out what the money will fund and why we need it now? 60 million deficit today, 65 million next week, 70 million by end of July, who really knows on the 4th floor? They are so clueless, it is sad.
We really need some leadership at the front of this issue. The mayor is done, put a fork in him.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 24, 2009, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 11:41:14 AM
And that is why I'm moving to Clay...
Maybe they needed some more money to plan more trips to France.
good luck with that...let us know how much more you end up paying in impact fees, gas, tolls, etc.
Gas----Hummm.....I either work from home or drive to my office in CLAY.....I'll be saving some money there....
Tolls---- Lets see you're right....there are tolls everywhere...wait there aren't any...so I'll pay imaginary pennies to them
Impact fee's.....lets see....buying a already built home....no fee's.....
Total= 56464165464 imaginary pennies.
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 07:51:47 PM
Gas----Hummm.....I either work from home or drive to my office in CLAY.....I'll be saving some money there....
Tolls---- Lets see you're right....there are tolls everywhere...wait there aren't any...so I'll pay imaginary pennies to them
Impact fee's.....lets see....buying a already built home....no fee's.....
Total= 56464165464 imaginary pennies.
Nice use of only 4 numbers there.
They may not have certain fee's yet in Clay, but the way Clay County is growing is not sustainable and in the long run, will seriously hurt them. Clay County just doesn't appeal to me at all. Having lived in an exurb for 18 years before be stationed and getting out here, now, I like living in the main city of the metro area and ahving everything I need within a short distance.
For a city our size, 12th largest, we have one of the lowest property tax rates of all the top 100 largest cities in the nation.
However, you do seem to brag and rave about other areas and locations that are not Jacksonville.
I wouldnt mind paying extra money, but this city has shown me nothing in the past that they know how to properly spend money. Downtown is a sea of empty lots and decay, crime is ramped, and our parks lay in ruins. This has been going on for decades. Now they want more money to waste and spend, spend, spend. Buying a house in this city was a mistake on my part. I just hope I can get outta here within a few years.
Quote from: CrysG on June 24, 2009, 07:51:47 PM
Tolls---- Lets see you're right....there are tolls everywhere...wait there aren't any...so I'll pay imaginary pennies to them
Its called the Outer Beltway...coming soon to a Clay County neighborhood near you.
Of course the bigger picture issue is this....when people flee the City, balancing the budget becomes even harder....just ask Baltimore, Philly, Cleveland, Detroit, etc....so go ahead and perpetuate the problem!
Of course we have the advantage over those cities that we're not built out, not in the Rust Belt, and that we're still in a desireable location, no matter what some think.
Yeah, hell lets make it an even 25% and go for a full featured SUBWAY! MTrain and I will design it.
LOL
OCKLAWAHA
As expected, a lot of emotional reaction on this thread. Unfortunately, this is the wrong way to react. Budgeting should be a rational process in which all sources of revenue and all items of expense are thoughtfully analyzed and justified.
A good budget does not guarantee perfection as many people are involved in securing revenue or spending money and, even with the best of checks and balances, bad decisions can slip through. So, the fact that we can find a few dollars here or there in a massive City budget does not mean the entire budget is inappropriate. Rather, these examples should be used to further tighten and enhance budget controls going forward.
Many of the comments here also drag in the independent entities (Port, Airport, JEA, School Board) that are not controlled by the City or its budget. These agencies have their own issues and deserve close scrutiny in another forum apart from the City.
We need to remember we are a community that sinks or swims together. We can not advocate only for those things that directly impact our own lives and ignore the fact that many things that are less direct have a major impact on us as well. This calls for big picture thinking - a vision that elevates the entire community ("a rising tide lifts all boats"), not just our own pet peeves. Metrojax supposedly represents an attempt to look at this bigger view of Jacksonville. Many of these posts belie this assumption.
I am not for or against a tax increase and am not commenting on the best way to win people over. I want to do what is best for our community as a whole and as efficiently as possible. If we are at a point where that means we need to reconsider our level of investment, then kudos to the Mayor for putting it out there for debate and discussion. Let's see what the justification is and whether it makes sense or just represents a special agenda (Nelson Cuda was on TV last night already advocating that the additional revenue should go first to public safety, i.e. my translation, more for higher police and fire salaries and pension payments.)
It does little good to shoot the messenger, even if he is less than perfect in his presentation. Flying bullets just stifle discussion that is necessary and prudent to have and is too often absent in our community for this very reason. Let's focus on the real issues of our community and whether we are under-investing in it or not.
I have balanced many business, organizational, and personal budgets, and it does take money to live. We all need to prioritize and to realize we can't have it all. I am sure each of us could find some slack in our own personal budgets that would more than offset much of what is asked from us to support our community at a sustainable level. But, are we willing to make the same tough decisions for ourselves that we ask of others? From my experience, not many of us are. We usually prefer self gratification over the common good.
Keeping an open mind and holding on to my common sense....
Damn Stjr, does this mean I won't get a Subway? Okay, I'll settle for a finished Skyway and 100 miles of streetcar!
OCKLAWAHA
i guess you could always just move to another cookie cutter town
very well said stjr!
Again I dont trust this city's leadership as far as I can throw a taxed penny!!!!
QuoteMany of the comments here also drag in the independent entities (Port, Airport, JEA, School Board) that are not controlled by the City or its budget. These agencies have their own issues and deserve close scrutiny in another forum apart from the City.
I don't see the JEA budget process that way. JEA sends the City money each year, since the City owns them. Does JEA have its own budget process and own purchasing and basically duplication of every AP/HR/AR office, yes, there is duplication. But the City's Stormwater fee, who does it really benefit? It benefits JEA. JAA, JTA, JPA, School Board, I agree with you, but JEA is a lot closer to the City.
Email from Peyton:
QuoteDear Friends:
We have so much to be proud of in our city. Jacksonville has the largest urban park system in the country and one of the nation’s greatest natural resources running through the center of our downtown. Our seaport is the American gateway for automobiles, lumber, paper, steel and consumer products, and our city is home to more than 50,000 military men and women who serve and protect our nation each day.
However, due to cuts from Tallahassee, combined with the global economic crisis and an unsustainable pension system, our city is facing a severe budget crisis. Although we are not at risk of bankruptcy, the needs of this city are greater than its available revenue. To address our city’s financial crisis and ensure that critical services remain intact, I plan to propose significant cuts to the budget, important pension reforms and a modest increase in property taxes.
First, at my direction, the city’s budget and management teams have identified $40 million in additional cuts for the upcoming budget. These cuts include a 5 percent across-the-board budget cut in all non-public safety departments and the elimination of more than 100 positions.
In addition, we will take to the collective bargaining table an aggressive pension reform plan. We can no longer continue to promise something no one else in this country gets. Six years ago, our annual pension obligation was $40 million. Next year, it will be $110 million. Ten years from now, the pension obligation will be $260 million. Maintaining this exponentially increasing system is just not an option.
Next month, I will propose a series of reforms that will be fair, competitive and sustainable. Key elements of pension reform could include modifying the 8.4 percent DROP guarantee, the retirement age and years of service criteria, employee contribution rate, cost of living implementation and other issues.
Even after these cuts, filling the gap will require an additional $60 million. Our first option is to make unsustainable cuts resulting in the elimination of fundamental government services like fire stations, community centers, libraries and senior centers; all public service and cultural grants, including funding for children’s programs; recycling efforts; and iconic institutions like the Sulzbacher Center and the Ritz Theatre. The second option is to make the investments needed to keep this city running.
Next month, I will propose to City Council a millage rate increase of approximately 1.2 mils. This decision was difficult, and was not made hastily. This increase will be finalized upon receipt of the July 1 tax roll from the property appraiser and would likely take the property tax rate to approximately what it was prior to Tallahassee’s micromanagement of our local budget. The increase will cost the average homeowner in Jacksonville approximately $115 more next year. And, that $115 will save Jacksonville from financial ruin.
Addressing budgetary issues will require leadership, broad support and the roll-up-our-sleeves attitude that has defined Jacksonville’s history. I need your help convincing fellow community members and our 19 Jacksonville City Council members that my upcoming budget proposal is the best plan for our city’s future.
We must FIX IT NOW! If we don’t, it will take more than a decade to get back to where we need to be, even if an economic boom were to start again tomorrow. To turn conversation into action, we must challenge every citizen and elected official with these two questions. First, will you pay $115 more next year in property taxes or do you support cutting all the programs and services that make this city great?
If you answered yes to investing in Jacksonville’s future, or want to learn more about the city’s budget, please visit www.FixItNow.cc. Join the effort to make Jacksonville the greatest place to live, work and raise a family.
Sincerely,
John Peyton
Mayor
Dear Friends:
We have so much to be proud of in our city. Jacksonville has the largest urban park system in the country and one of the nation’s greatest natural resources running through the center of our downtown. Our seaport is the American gateway for automobiles, lumber, paper, steel and consumer products, and our city is home to more than 50,000 military men and women who serve and protect our nation each day.
However, due to cuts from Tallahassee, combined with the global economic crisis and an unsustainable pension system, our city is facing a severe budget crisis. Although we are not at risk of bankruptcy, the needs of this city are greater than its available revenue. To address our city’s financial crisis and ensure that critical services remain intact, I plan to propose significant cuts to the budget, important pension reforms and a modest increase in property taxes.
First, at my direction, the city’s budget and management teams have identified $40 million in additional cuts for the upcoming budget. These cuts include a 5 percent across-the-board budget cut in all non-public safety departments and the elimination of more than 100 positions.
In addition, we will take to the collective bargaining table an aggressive pension reform plan. We can no longer continue to promise something no one else in this country gets. Six years ago, our annual pension obligation was $40 million. Next year, it will be $110 million. Ten years from now, the pension obligation will be $260 million. Maintaining this exponentially increasing system is just not an option.
Next month, I will propose a series of reforms that will be fair, competitive and sustainable. Key elements of pension reform could include modifying the 8.4 percent DROP guarantee, the retirement age and years of service criteria, employee contribution rate, cost of living implementation and other issues.
Even after these cuts, filling the gap will require an additional $60 million. Our first option is to make unsustainable cuts resulting in the elimination of fundamental government services like fire stations, community centers, libraries and senior centers; all public service and cultural grants, including funding for children’s programs; recycling efforts; and iconic institutions like the Sulzbacher Center and the Ritz Theatre. The second option is to make the investments needed to keep this city running.
Next month, I will propose to City Council a millage rate increase of approximately 1.2 mils. This decision was difficult, and was not made hastily. This increase will be finalized upon receipt of the July 1 tax roll from the property appraiser and would likely take the property tax rate to approximately what it was prior to Tallahassee’s micromanagement of our local budget. The increase will cost the average homeowner in Jacksonville approximately $115 more next year. And, that $115 will save Jacksonville from financial ruin.
Addressing budgetary issues will require leadership, broad support and the roll-up-our-sleeves attitude that has defined Jacksonville’s history. I need your help convincing fellow community members and our 19 Jacksonville City Council members that my upcoming budget proposal is the best plan for our city’s future.
We must FIX IT NOW! If we don’t, it will take more than a decade to get back to where we need to be, even if an economic boom were to start again tomorrow. To turn conversation into action, we must challenge every citizen and elected official with these two questions. First, will you pay $115 more next year in property taxes or do you support cutting all the programs and services that make this city great?
If you answered yes to investing in Jacksonville’s future, or want to learn more about the city’s budget, please visit www.FixItNow.cc. Join the effort to make Jacksonville the greatest place to live, work and raise a family.
Sincerely,
John Peyton
Mayor
Tell you what your honor, John you KNOW I'm very loud... I'll lead your campaign for this tax hike if we add in a couple of % AND go for being the most transit savvy city this side of San Francisco, Medellin or New York. Finish the Skyway and start laying streetcar tracks, and we'll lead the Southeast in pulling together Amtrak DOWNTOWN. GO FOR IT. I'm sick of us being considered a backwater village when we are really one of the BIG DOGS.
OCKLAWAHA
Sell the main library. This will plug the budget gap, increase the tax base and remove a home base for bums.
So from the letter it appears the increase will only save whats in place today. Imo, if taxes have to increase, why not go from the suggested $115 to $125 or $130 so we could actually fund something that could enhance Jacksonville's quality of life?
That all can be traced back to the city leaders who annexed the City of Jacksonville to Duval County in order to avoid integration back in 1968. Racism never wins out in the long run. Can we all just learn to get along?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 25, 2009, 01:53:43 PM
So from the letter it appears the increase will only save whats in place today. Imo, if taxes have to increase, why not go from the suggested $115 to $125 or $130 so we could actually fund something that could enhance Jacksonville's quality of life?
I agree Lake...but it gets back to Peyton's pledge of "no new taxes"...what he's doing is puitting back what the State took away through Amendment 1 a few years ago
When I was listening to him this morning this was playing in my head....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5ojRDNqA
http://<object%20width="425"%20height="344"><param%20name="movie"%20value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fRu5ojRDNqA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param%20name="allowFullScreen"%20value="true"></param><param%20name="allowscriptaccess"%20value="always"></param><embed%20src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fRu5ojRDNqA&hl=en&fs=1&"%20type="application/x-shockwave-flash"%20allowscriptaccess="always"%20allowfullscreen="true"%20width="425"%20height="344"></embed></object>
I don't understand what was truely lost with amendment 1. that was passed after the real estate skyrocket. with the increase in property value the tax base definately increased. i think the real problem is that the developer impact fees are to low. the developers were building so many houses that the city of jax couldn't keep up on the public sector side. higher impact fees or actually enforcing the impact fees at their full value instead of giving them the brother-in-law deal might have aided in the long term economic problems jacksonville is seeing.
All - just as a note, since we have several topics about this, I've merged a couple into this one.
Steve
QuoteSo from the letter it appears the increase will only save whats in place today. Imo, if taxes have to increase, why not go from the suggested $115 to $125 or $130 so we could actually fund something that could enhance Jacksonville's quality of life?
Lake, I agree with you. But we all know that Peyton chases topics like leaves in the wind, he will be off to a new one shortly and the cameras and herd will go with him, leaving us all to question a new Trail Ridge debacle. With fresh egg still on his face, he wants us to believe him when he says that he will save Jacksonville from "ruin". I almost burst a gasket when he had the audacity to say that in his, now, infamous letter.
I was going to say you know Peyton doesn't care about how high the property tax increases in Jacksonville because he doesn't live here, hell, he doesn't even live in Duval County!
Agreed, we dont have a trust fund to fall back on. Last year it was waste managment fees, now increases in property. If this administration had actually acomplished something since it has been in place I could see the need. Giving them more money doesnt ensure that any improvements will be done downtown or elsewhere ie the mainstreet pocket park, did they listen or just waste 700.000. How about comming up with a plan that includes selling the properties they own, especially on river front property, how much tax revenue is the city losing by own the land under the landing etc ,,,
Quote from: reednavy on June 25, 2009, 08:03:07 PM
I was going to say you know Peyton doesn't care about how high the property tax increases in Jacksonville because he doesn't live here, hell, he doesn't even live in Duval County!
Since when is San Marco not part of Jax?
Does it matter where he lives. He can afford it.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 25, 2009, 09:05:15 PM
Since when is San Marco not part of Jax?
I was told that he lives in Ponte Vedra. Still, he pisses me off because he has done almost nothing with the terms he has been given. Other than FINALLY getting the courthouse under construction and lighting the bridges, I have yet to see anything good myself since moving here in 2006. I haven't heard anything better from anything before then from my friends.
Here's an article from Charlotte that talks about the various levels of government....
maybe this will help explain why money for the courthouse and money for dealing with the homeless often don't come from the sme pot....just imagine how much worse things would be here in Jax. if we didn't have consolidated govt.
http://citiwire.net/post/1017/
He actually lives in the Miramar area, just SOUTH of San Marco. One of his body guards lives near him as well in that area. For security reasons, I will not disclose either the exact location or body guard.
Perhaps you are thinking of the Ponte Vedra Club and one of his other brothers who does live in PV.
How do you fire a Mayer !
Did California fire a governor a couple of years ago? The sad part of Jacksonville is lacking a viable candidate.
I think there are already 3 people who have thrown their name in the ring for the 2011 election. Should be fun between now and then.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on June 26, 2009, 11:16:23 PM
Quote from: samiam on June 26, 2009, 12:19:07 AM
How do you fire a Mayer !
Challenge him to a spelling contest?
I think he's talking about John Mayer. That's why it's capitalized.
My question to MetroJacksonville Users, if these were eliminated or closed, what is the true impact on YOU? I could go either way on the tax, but my feeling is that some of these programs could be eliminated, some picked up by local corporations, and some are needed. The library should adopt a pay for it, if you use it system, in a perfect world, everything would be free, but this is not anywhere near perfect.
QuoteWithout a property tax rate increase, the mayor's office guarantees Jacksonville residents will notice a difference.
Parks could become eyesores, with unmowed grass and unpruned shrubs. Curbside recycling might disappear. It could take longer for ambulances to arrive, especially in rural areas.
There may be no Jazz Festival to bring music to Memorial Day weekend and fill downtown hotels. Neighborhood fire stations and library branches could close.
Mayor John Peyton's worst-case scenario - $55.4 million in cuts to programs and services - is a "list of bad choices," according to Adam Hollingsworth, the mayor's chief of staff.
They would come on top of $41.2 million in cuts Peyton has committed to make, no matter what, including reducing library hours, freezing employee pay and cutting the budgets of most city departments.
It stops there, the mayor says, if the City Council agrees to raise the property tax rate by 12 percent, or $97 for the average homeowner. Proponents say the question is what kind of Jacksonville residents want to live in.
If the millage rate isn't increased, the results could mean fewer services for children, elimination of the city's historic preservation efforts and the shuttering of the Ritz Theatre. And there might not be a Sexual Assault Response Center for rape victims to turn to.
There is a threat to close two fire stations. The police budget appears untouched, although Peyton would like to negotiate wage and benefit concessions with all unionized public safety employees. Without a tax hike, the city could slash funding for the Sulzbacher Center by nearly 80 percent. Audrey Moran, the homeless shelter's executive director, said the needs of the city's most vulnerable citizens shouldn't be ignored in tough economic times.
"Jacksonville is a caring community, and we need to continue to make an investment in our future that will pay tremendous dividends," she said. "If we fail to do that we are, I believe, going to regret the consequences."
The council will set a maximum millage rate on July 28, but financial discussions - what stays and what goes - will continue until a balanced budget is passed in late September. The fiscal year begins Oct. 1.
Peyton will submit his spending plan Monday. So far, feedback to his office and council members is mixed. Some residents say they'd rather lose programs and services than pay higher taxes. Others are taking up Peyton's rallying cry, "Fix it now."
For someone that is so pro-education funding, I'm surprised that you would advocate charging for library useage.
A well educated population allows for broad prosperity and enables an area to attract the best jobs availabe. A child from a disadvantaged home should be able to get books, otherwise they have little hope of ever becoming 'advantaged'.
^As a teacher, I don't have the money to buy all of the books I want to use in my classroom. I probably checked out upwards of 500 books last year to supplement my lack of a classroom library. If I had to pay for usage, I wouldn't be able to afford that, so my children would not be exposed to those books. Plus all of my low-income students who visit the library with their parents wouldn't be able to afford a usage fee and it would discourage them from reading. And before you have a chance to say no one uses the library, I got all of my children library cards and they used them! A free library system is an essential component of an educated and progressive city.
Here we go again; this guy knows nothing about leading, controlling, planning, or organizing, maybe a barbque festival but not a City Government.
Heights Unknown
QuoteCurbside recycling might disappear.
Can this be made more self sustaining? Is recycling THAT much of a money loser?
Quoteelimination of the city's historic preservation efforts
Really? Exactly what are they preserving? What is the current budget for this?
Quoteshuttering of the Ritz Theatre.
Can a not for profit organization take over this operation? Perhaps to make a profit?
QuoteWithout a tax hike, the city could slash funding for the Sulzbacher Center by nearly 80 percent. Audrey Moran, the homeless shelter's executive director, said the needs of the city's most vulnerable citizens shouldn't be ignored in tough economic times
With all the churches in town of various denominations could they not assume the worthy cause of feeding and housing these folks?
I don't have a paper in front of me, but one of the cuts mentioned in today's TU is the city going to four, 10 hour day work weeks. That's one change I believe is worth evaluating regardless of this current budget situation.
QuoteThat's one change I believe is worth evaluating regardless of this current budget situation.
Agreed! One further change would be to consolidate purchasing, HR, AP, and Legal departments across the board for all of the City agencies. JTA, Jaxport, JAA, JEA, and COJ, why again do we need duplication of departments that do the same thing for all?
What is wrong with paying $1 for a library card? How hard would that be to PAY a little more for what you use? If people paid a little more for the services THEY USED, the rest of us could sit back and enjoy our lower tax base. I never use the Ritz Theatre or the Equestrian Facility, both should be sold off and run as private enterprises or have people pay for using them. An increase in the sales tax is the ONLY fair way to pay for consumption of products or services, but since no one can come up with a solution to sales taxes at the state level, we are stuck forcing 300,000 households to pay for the services used by 805,000 in Duval County and probably many more who use the services in surrounding counties.
How about the churches start to pay property taxes and help that way. They own million dollar properties and pay nothing, that is a bunch of BS.
And why are we supporting the Ritz? Should run on its own, if not then shut it down. Other businesses come and go, so stop subsidizing stuff like that.
Finally, maybe Peyton can stand behind his election promise of no tax hikes, anyone read his lips? If he can't do it, then step down.
FBC pays property taxes on all of their parking garages downtown.
I don't know where anyone gets the idea that a museum is a profitable venture. If they were, they would have existed prior to the city funding them. Just in this forum, how many people have paid an admission to the LaVilla museum? I have not, but I would say Metrojax readers would be more likely to visit it than the typical local. The ticket revenue probably wouldn't cover operating expenses, let alone debt service.
The alternative is to just not have museums.
The equestrian Center doesn't make a profit, but if it did not exist, the room and sales taxes it brings to the city would be gone. No ONE business makes a profit off of it, but COLLECTIVELY between all the restaurants,hotels, gas stations, retailers, etc. there is a return on investment. That is why the public pays for these things. The only way an equestrian center could possibly make money is if every patron spent their money (room, food, gas, shopping, etc.) with one entitity instead of a multitude of them.
The city invests in these things because of the tax revenue and economic benefits that the the community AS A WHOLE experiences.
We all pay for things through taxes that we personally don't use, but we also all use things that someone ELSE doesn't use but pays taxes for. We also pay for things that we don't personally use, but that enhance the overall quality of life.
I don't have children, but I have paid taxes all of my adult life to educate other people's children. BUT, when I go to the doctor, I want that doctor to be educated.
I have never been to a Symphony performance at the T-U Center, and must likely never will. But if having a symphony helps convince Fidelity to bring their HQ here, then I still benefit from it.
Take the blinders off folks.
^Excellent Vic!
In regards to the library...after December 31, 2009 they are already planning on charging for library cards. Paying to get your card is a lot different than paying for usage. I misread your post mtrain and thought you were suggesting usage fees for everything we check out.
Vic - Good comments, yet the blinders are off, and I firmly believe that we should have more taxes that penalize those of us who use the services of public servants and public gratitude. I have no children either, I am excited to see that Lee High School went from a D to C level, probably due to all the tax revenue from my property. Or could it be that Lee High School found teachers who gave a damn and decided to make it better for the community, and are on their way to making it a better school?
I don't believe the library should cost every time you use it, but I believe that the Animal Control facility should at least break-even with adoptions. The Cannery should pay for itself, and the equestrian center should cover its own expenses. BJP paid for it, so it should break even on its own expenses. Could the arena do that? Could the ballpark? Could anyone follow the COJ auditor's math? Not sure...
I think govt should shrink as we shrink our finances, consolidate duplicate services in City offices. Why does JEA need a purchasing department when the COJ has one that is larger and just as capable? If JEA is cutting back on spending, why does it need so many people in purchasing? Why does the JAA need its own admin staff, when the City could easily handle it 4 days a week?
Mayor Peyton, are you listening, we want to know why you have not called for more cuts and cuts to other agencies in town, who already piggy back on City contracts, why they cannot cut back on their own services, and save us the taxpayers some coins?
This a good opportunity to reduce the number of social service in down town. Move some of them to the surrounding county's so duval is not stuck with the bill for all of them.
That will be an interesting experiment, if the City cuts funding to Sulzbacher, and they cut services to the homeless, will the homeless go somewhere else - another community that provides 'better' services?
Now is the time to stop rewarding people for working the system. You need to give something back if you use these services. If you want my tax dollars to support someone I want that person to work in return. A few things that they could do to save the city money is maintain parks, clean streets, clean storm drains and road repair. Turn the Sulzbacher into a daycare center so single parents cant use the excuse that have to take care of there kids. We need to go back to basics if you don't work you don't eat.
I do believe we need to take care of the mentally ill. I don't mean send them to the hospital and let them out the same day but well regulated institution.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on July 07, 2009, 11:12:57 PM
That will be an interesting experiment, if the City cuts funding to Sulzbacher, and they cut services to the homeless, will the homeless go somewhere else - another community that provides 'better' services?
Let's pray (to the city councils)
^A number of posts above got me thinking. We already pay to feed and house hundreds of homeless every day, correct? What if our only options for social services were work based? We continue to pay for food and shelter, but anyone who takes the service is required to work for a reduced minimum wage? There are many things like cleaning parks, mowing, daycare, janitorial, fixing sidewalks, etc, that people could do. Jobs the city now pays hefty wages to get done. Some provide daycare while others work, so having children isn't an excuse. There would be requirements for drug testing and you would not be allowed shelter if you were drunk. These folks could work on job searches at night and could also receive classes in basic things like money management and work based training. Because they would make a small amount for their work, hopefully some would be able to cycle out after a period of time. Because this would be the only option in Duval County, the rest who didn't want to work would be on their own or would leave! Mental health cases would need to be handled separately.
Anyone know of a city or program that is similar elsewhere in the United States or in other countries? What are your thoughts? Could something like this work?