Urban Infill: Urbana
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/567382371_iTjY5-M.jpg)
Developers scale down Jacksonville Beach Urbana project in order to move forward.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jun-urban-infill-urbana
(ha). well then. just a small change there, huh?
just another strip mall now. great job!
I personally like it. A condo would have flopped. I like the retail and I actually like the rooftop parking. I'm happy to finally something happening at the beach again.
Yes - I really wish it was the original design, but beggers can't be choosers. We need some projects to break ground. Hopefully they at least dress the place up with some good lighting or something.
I'm suprised to see the rooftop parking. Very nice, IMO.
Its a great way to keep the project moving forward and it prevents more surface parking lots.
It's better than a vacant lot....
or another passive, useless park.
Is this currently underway? I thought that I'd noticed new retail under construction (this) over the weekend.
how is five guys elegant?
Another stip mall...sorry but that's what it is now
and worst all the nice design elements are gone.....
Quote from: jaxlore on June 24, 2009, 08:48:16 AM
how is five guys elegant?
What are they supposed to say? Come get fat at our new strip mall??
What a disappointment. Just because it's nothing but retail doesn't mean it has to be the same crap that everyone else is doing. Look at the retail center at the northwest corner of Phillips and Baymeadows. It's a strip mall, sure, but it looks GOOD. It looks like someone put more than 20 minutes worth of thought into what it would look like. This crap above is just that....CRAP. More of the same old same old. When will developers learn that a building doesn't have to look cheap to be cheap. Frustrating.
I like the parking on the roof. Other than that, it sucks that economic conditions have curtailed the construction of a truly mixed use development.
Quote from: archiphreak on June 24, 2009, 09:04:43 AM
Look at the retail center at the northwest corner of Phillips and Baymeadows. It's a strip mall, sure, but it looks GOOD. It looks like someone put more than 20 minutes worth of thought into what it would look like. This crap above is just that....CRAP. More of the same old same old.
You can ride your bike easily or walk to Urbana if you live in that neighborhood. The Strip Mall on Baymeadows and Phillips is a nightmare to get to in any other way than a car due to it being on a busy intersection. I know it because I have done it.
Well when you guys have a little bit of money and want to risk it on a project, then I am sure it will be perfect. It will have all of your heart's desire!
No but really, these people would have stuck with the original plan if they could. Everyone here who is whining STFU! I would love to see some crazy modern Architectonica mixed use whole block to the sidewalk development, but nobody has that kind of line of credit with the banks right now. Even if this developer had cash, they would lose money on a grander scheme.
I am tired of people trashing private development if it does not fit their bill, because it is well known that investing money into real estate or a project in a down market is one of the biggest risks one can take. They will not recover this investment even just from fully leased retail for a while, let alone an empty office/condo building.
If you complainers have invested millions of your money into a project that fit your demands and was successful, even in a depressed market, then speak up and let other developers know how you did it. But somehow I do not think anyone here has invested millions of their own on anything, so why dont you leave the hard work up to people who are really trying to make a better difference in the urban environment while not losing too much money and dont bash them for trying.
This board sometimes sounds like a bunch of immature whiners. Done with rant.
Once this is finished the area of downtown Jax Beach will be a nice little mix of bars, shops, restaurants and residential. While it may just be another strip mall it will fit in nicely and will add to area of 1st-3rd Aves - which is already a fairly pedestrian friendly environment.
I think it will be a good addition to the area. Now if only they could do something about that terrible McDonalds.
Where's the Streetcar?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: copperfiend on June 24, 2009, 09:39:51 AM
I think it will be a good addition to the area. Now if only they could do something about that terrible McDonalds.
I know that they cleared the old gas station on the corner of Beach and 3rd St. next to the McDonalds. I think they were going to build condos there but that might have fallen through when the market tanked. I doubt the McD's is going anywhere though.
Another strip mall that will look outdated in 5 years, but at least now YogaBerry will be in walking distance on beach days.
This change does bite. I agree with the comments above on the loss of design elements, the strip mall look, and the idea the Five Guys is somehow elegant. The only redeeming thing is placing the parking on the roof instead of eating up space with ugly surface spaces. If I served on a development board, I would not approve this change. F the developer. So he loses shirt, those are the breaks. In regards to Simms comments, I think that citizens should have a much larger say in development projects. A balance can still be struck that allows the developer to be profitable.
This is some insane puffery - and when did the beaches become and island or urban?
Urban Island Shopping
Whatever your service, whatever your product, Urbana's concept is aligned to meet the customer's eye. With four defined close-knit communities in the area as well as several defined communities on the periphery, Jacksonville Beach attracts a constant flux of retail traffic that centers around a high-end coastal demographic. Jacksonville Beach is the host of several area events and festivals as well as the nucleus of some of Northeast Florida's best music venues and hot spots. Steps from eclectic dining for any palette and minutes from world class golf, tennis, and fishing. Jacksonville Beach attracts tourists and locals alike who enjoy the good life and love to shop.
I understand the losing of the condo element in this project due to the housing market, but the loss of the design elements is ridiculous. Once again it is another promise of good architectural design that has turned into a tilt-up concrete box by the time it gets built. I drove past the site this weekend and it is underway and it is a tilt-up concrete box. It is also pushed so tight to the street; there isn’t much space for pedestrian traffic, or the ability for outdoor dining. The southwest corner of the building is less than twelve inches away from the streetlight pole. This project has become absurd and absolutely horrible. It is amazing what the City of Jacksonville and Jacksonville Beach will except as development, especially when you see what they turn down for silly reasons. Basically in this town, if you’re a member of the Good ‘Ole Boy network, you can get away with anything, no matter how bad or stupid it is! Is it any coincidence that the project ended up precast concrete? Can you say Peyton?
I completely agree with JaxByDefault and Deuce above. Jacksonville is already overloaded with cheap, poorly designed, outdated strip malls. Wake up people!!!!
Maybe the city could have held the developer to the original design intent. And maybe even had them construct the project in phases, enabling the structure to being able to expand into the final design once the economy gets better. But being the skeptic that I am, I have a feeling the developer had no intent of building the original design and the city knew it, and quietly let the change happen so that by the time everyone realized what happened, it was to late!
Getting the bag over the head and punched in the face by the people who run this city is getting quite old.
Very basic and rudimentary looking, but hopefully it will be some sort of a "shot in the arm" for the Beach.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: hightowerlover on June 24, 2009, 11:03:36 AM
This is some insane puffery - and when did the beaches become and island or urban?
actually Jax. Beach is quite urban...it has a mix of uses, significant pedestrian activity, and the highest density of any jurisdiction in Duval County.
Is this a Sleiman project? Looks like his type of design. Stores will probably then be half empty for the next few years.
They just need to put some bars in those storefronts ;)
i wonder why they couldnt still incorporate a more attractive roofline like the original renderings. at least it would give it some character... and i think the red was a more unique look and appropriate for a jax beach setting
I'm trying to figure out what some of you guys want; They built SJTC with upscale shopping, and yall complain about that; They bring a nice shopping center (RCMP), with a movie theater to the Northside, and yall complain about that; When they tear down Lerner, a small and rather insignificant building, and it's like they just tore down the Modis building or something. Okay, I get it, bitch about everything that's positive, and negative towards the city, and us J-ville peeps are the only uncouth, non-upscale, and simple-minded people; Everyone else in the USA is lightyears ahead of us with progress; Yeah, yeah, yeah, yall have beaten that dead horse to death again. I see nothing wrong with Urbana. Nothing will satisfy some of yall.
I dont see any thing wrong with it. I guess people are tired seeing the same old design time after time.
The project has good form with little street setbacks and rooftop parking, it just lacks any interesting design intent unfortunately. In this economy I am glad to see things progress with construction. I think this is a positive progress. They just need to fill in the storefronts!
Yeah you tell 'em, I-10east! Let's be happy SOMETHING is getting built around here! I mean they could've just said "screw this" and scrapped the whole project.
Quotethe same old design
But it's really not. Maybe the elevation in the rendering seems like it at first glance, but the constant activity & prospect of headlight beams shooting off of the roof seems kind of cool - there must be some type of railing that will provide additional aesthetics & functionality as well. Show me another "strip mall" with rooftop parking in North Florida. I think it's pretty innovative considering the alternative - having a footprint 1/2 the size with surface parking. With the original design (which I concede does look nicer at first glance, btw), what was the expectation with regard to parking?
The rooftop parking is a good idea, but the renderings don't appear to show the parapets high enough to screen the vehicles parking at the perimeter of the building. Maybe that is their design element, a bunch of redneck 4X4's looming overhead . . . Git 'r done Jacksonville developers!
What's wrong with 4x4s? And what make you think a retail development a the beaches will be overrun with them? This isn't on the westside or Huguenot park... :)
Quote from: simms3 on June 24, 2009, 09:23:53 AM
Well when you guys have a little bit of money and want to risk it on a project, then I am sure it will be perfect. It will have all of your heart's desire!
No but really, these people would have stuck with the original plan if they could. Everyone here who is whining STFU! I would love to see some crazy modern Architectonica mixed use whole block to the sidewalk development, but nobody has that kind of line of credit with the banks right now. Even if this developer had cash, they would lose money on a grander scheme.
I am tired of people trashing private development if it does not fit their bill, because it is well known that investing money into real estate or a project in a down market is one of the biggest risks one can take. They will not recover this investment even just from fully leased retail for a while, let alone an empty office/condo building.
If you complainers have invested millions of your money into a project that fit your demands and was successful, even in a depressed market, then speak up and let other developers know how you did it. But somehow I do not think anyone here has invested millions of their own on anything, so why dont you leave the hard work up to people who are really trying to make a better difference in the urban environment while not losing too much money and dont bash them for trying.
This board sometimes sounds like a bunch of immature whiners. Done with rant.
The reason everyone is whining is because almost EVERY project in Duval county has suffered the same fate. Some even before the economic downturn. In the last few years we have seen some really exciting plans and almost every one has been watered down to mediocrity. The list is too long for me to count them all.
I don't like the change, but what ever turns them on... The current inventory of forclosures is starting to move pretty fast. Mortgage companies are running full tilt to close as many loans as possible, (believe me I'm in the middle of it and it just keeps dragging on due to traffic). So end of story, when the inventory of repossessions starts to dry, prices will (and are) starting to level out then climb again. By the time this thing is built they might well wish they had the condos in it.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: I-10east on June 24, 2009, 10:31:26 PM
I'm trying to figure out what some of you guys want; They built SJTC with upscale shopping, and yall complain about that; They bring a nice shopping center (RCMP), with a movie theater to the Northside, and yall complain about that; When they tear down Lerner, a small and rather insignificant building, and it's like they just tore down the Modis building or something. Okay, I get it, bitch about everything that's positive, and negative towards the city, and us J-ville peeps are the only uncouth, non-upscale, and simple-minded people; Everyone else in the USA is lightyears ahead of us with progress; Yeah, yeah, yeah, yall have beaten that dead horse to death again. I see nothing wrong with Urbana. Nothing will satisfy some of yall.
I'm a J-ville peep and I think most J-ville peeps ARE uncouth and will settle for crap. And as far as RCMP what a joke. Yes it's great to have some shopping on the NS, but what a HORRIBLE deisgn. NOBODY walks there except to their cars, and putting a 4 lane speedway down the middle of a shopping area is more than a little crazy.
Quote from: avonjax on June 26, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
I'm a J-ville peep and I think most J-ville peeps ARE uncouth and will settle for crap. And as far as RCMP what a joke. Yes it's great to have some shopping on the NS, but what a HORRIBLE deisgn. NOBODY walks there except to their cars, and putting a 4 lane speedway down the middle of a shopping area is more than a little crazy.
Why does it matter if people walk. It is a spread out suburban strip mall. Just like hundreds of others in the outskirts of every other city in America.
QuoteThe current inventory of forclosures is starting to move pretty fast. Mortgage companies are running full tilt to close as many loans as possible, (believe me I'm in the middle of it and it just keeps dragging on due to traffic)
Ock - Housing will shut down if the Bond Mavens continue to push rates up past 5.5%. We only saw 4% for a moment back in March, and if rates go higher due to a "jobless recovery", we will have a much longer recovery because we all know we need the housing market to come back for us to get out of the recession.
Citi, one of the largest mortgage holders, just changed, made it harder for people to get loans, but changing the valuations on homes. Our property appraiser does not make it easier as well. We still have a lot of disconnected cars on the track and we need them to all line up and get connected to get us out of the recession, but I digress, we are discussing buildings looking the same.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 26, 2009, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: avonjax on June 26, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
I'm a J-ville peep and I think most J-ville peeps ARE uncouth and will settle for crap. And as far as RCMP what a joke. Yes it's great to have some shopping on the NS, but what a HORRIBLE deisgn. NOBODY walks there except to their cars, and putting a 4 lane speedway down the middle of a shopping area is more than a little crazy.
Why does it matter if people walk. It is a spread out suburban strip mall. Just like hundreds of others in the outskirts of every other city in America.
Thank you Copper. If RCMP was downtown, and it had all of those parking lots, then I could see the problem; It's a surburban shopping center in Jax, not Fifth Avenue in Manhattan.
Quote from: I-10east on June 26, 2009, 07:14:31 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on June 26, 2009, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: avonjax on June 26, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
I'm a J-ville peep and I think most J-ville peeps ARE uncouth and will settle for crap. And as far as RCMP what a joke. Yes it's great to have some shopping on the NS, but what a HORRIBLE design. NOBODY walks there except to their cars, and putting a 4 lane speedway down the middle of a shopping area is more than a little crazy.
Why does it matter if people walk. It is a spread out suburban strip mall. Just like hundreds of others in the outskirts of every other city in America.
Thank you Copper. If RCMP was downtown, and it had all of those parking lots, then I could see the problem; It's a suburban shopping center in Jax, not Fifth Avenue in Manhattan.
YOU MY MAN are dead wrong. It is a series of strip centers in a sea of asphalt. The reason it sucks in it's suburban setting is it claims to be a lifestyle center. Love it or hate it SJTC is at least a decent place to shop where you don't have to MOVE YOUR CAR anytime you want to go to several shops. So bottom line it would suck anywhere you put it. The stores are okay, the layout HORRIBLE.
Quote from: avonjax on June 26, 2009, 11:21:24 AM
YOU MY MAN are dead wrong. It is a series of strip centers in a sea of asphalt. The reason it sucks in it's suburban setting is it claims to be a lifestyle center. Love it or hate it SJTC is at least a decent place to shop where you don't have to MOVE YOUR CAR anytime you want to go to several shops. So bottom line it would suck anywhere you put it. The stores are okay, the layout HORRIBLE.
How am I dead wrong? Lifestyle center, Strip center, Shopping center; C'mon Avonjax, I know that you're not gonna split hairs like that; BTW, if you go to Ramco Gershenson's (the company that owns RCMP) website, the option says "go to a shopping center" not lifestyle center. Then I can't believe that you actually said that at the SJTC you don't hafta move your car to go to several shops.::) Many on this board will disagree with that statement; I personally don't give a damn about "walkability"; You might hafta walk in the blazing sun, or the rain. And as for the "4 lane speedway" at RCMP, I love it; In and out baby! It's all about ADAPTING to your environments.:)
www.ramcogershenson.com
Quote from: Jason on June 26, 2009, 09:04:41 AM
What's wrong with 4x4s? And what make you think a retail development a the beaches will be overrun with them? This isn't on the westside or Huguenot park... :)
that section of jax beach isn't called mutation beach for no reason. It is where all the westsiders collect.
Somehow I missed my reply to I-10.
AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG!!!!!!
(Or as I really suspect just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.)
I'm interested to see how the final product turns out. It'll be better than nothing.
As for condos with shopping under it, go two blocks north on 3rd St. and you have that. I think it's called "The Pier"? (Nice "Coffee Bistro" in it... good breakfast sandwiches and decent coffee.) They're still trying to fill it with buyers. You think more condos are going to find buyers? No, it'll just dilute the market. So you do what you can with your budget.
Also, I could be wrong, but I think that's what you have on 1st St. and 3rd Ave., too. Condos, parking, and shops all around the bottom (or restaurant/bar in the case of Chicago Pizza). So, again, the area's already got plenty of that.
I'm just glad to see something going on. I'm hoping there will be some work to clean up some of the businesses along 3rd St. that just look absolutely awful, with cracked parking lots, weeds growing all over, that kind of stuff. There's a lot of good going on, it'll probably just take some time.