Smart Meters Come to Downtown Jacksonville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/571349558_kfYcq-M.jpg)
Back in 2006, Metro Jacksonville pushed the City Council, the JEDC, and the Public Parking Division to invest in Smart Parking Meter Technology. Unfortunately, the will to move forward was not there, or so it seemed. However, those efforts came to fruition last week with the installation of Jacksonville's first Smart Parking Meters.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jun-smart-meters-come-to-downtown-jacksonville
This is much better. I am not the biggest parking meter believer but at least now you won't need to avoid downtown due to not having exact change.
Well, well; modern technology. No surprise here. Wait a few years from now when they come out with meters that will scan the microchip in your hand or forehead.
Heights Unknown
I'm a bit partial to the forehead idea...
I was just in Portland a couple weeks ago, where they use the electronic pay stations for street parking. It was amazingly convenient and efficient. I liked that the receipt was actually a sticker you stuck on the inside of the curbside window of your car- no falling off the dashboard, and easy for the meter maids to check, with the date an expiration time clearly provided. I hope these electronic meters are just as successful.
I'm extremely pleased to see something new popping in to downtown. A very nice change even if it is one item at a time.
About time Jax. Come on and wake up sleepy town. Its ok to catch up with the times.
Would have been MUCH cheaper to scrap all of the meters and transfer those fees to garage and parking lot spaces, then simply go with free timed parking on the grid. This just takes us into phase II of a really bad urban killing idea.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Rocshaboc on June 23, 2009, 11:38:11 AM
About time Jax. Come on and wake up sleepy town. Its ok to catch up with the times.
What?! :o Aw, come on! Don't we all think that this city is trying to do so?
Quote from: jeh1980 on June 23, 2009, 12:27:56 PMWhat?! :o Aw, come on! Don't we all think that this city is trying to do so?
Sometime I feel like the city is "trying" like the kid that got off the short bus is trying to win a sprint against world class athletes.
Seriously - St. Augustine has them now. How hard was this, really? I guarantee revenue collection will rise significantly with these meters.
Glad we are finally stepping up. City image is so important in attracting better business to the area.
Quote from: 5PointsGuy on June 23, 2009, 10:41:47 AM
I'm a bit partial to the forehead idea...
Anyone who has the microchip, chip or mark in the forehead will be the highly esteemed intellectuals and the wealthy, i.e., Donald Trump, millionaires, executives, people with PHD's, Master's degrees, etc., and anyone else who is highly esteemed.
Everyone else will have it in the web between the thumb and first finger in the right hand.
www.greaterthings.com/News/Chip_Implants/index.html
Heights Unknown
YESSS!!! i love this things. I hope they're the ones that charge your card directly when you go over time, so when the meter bi*ches come along...all they have to do is look up the receipt number, and the info is updated **no tickets**. fancy 8)
I know I shouldn't be asking this question, but I do so on behalf of all those "other" parking users who try to circumvent the rules! ;) Can you still "feed the meters" when you charge? Or, will it reject a reload on the same credit card? Just how smart are these things getting? Will they require you to punch in your plate number next?
How long do the solar panels keep the meter running with several days of cloudy weather? Are they sensitive enough to use to the reduced light available on cloudy days?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 24, 2009, 06:07:53 AM
How long do the solar panels keep the meter running with several days of cloudy weather? Are they sensitive enough to use to the reduced light available on cloudy days?
Very good question. Anyone know the answer? I assume that the panels can get energy from less concentrated light. LCD screens don't take up that much energy and the only time the meter would be really turning up the power would be when its validating a credit card, which shouldn't be all that often. So I would think it could probably handle a couple of days of low light.
They probably use miniscule amounts of power that a solar panel of that size can more than handle. Also, small amounts of power can be derived from the phone line attached to it 9if there is one). Maybe even enough to power it completely. If its cellular (probably is because its a retrofit) the solar panel probably gives it the extra power to send the credit validation signal.
A small battery can probably run it for a year without any sunlight.
My guess is that is one of the aspects that they are testing in the pilot, but the energy use on these things is I'm sure VERY small.
These devices can be hacked, is your personal data worth it?
Parking Meters: The Next Big Hack?
Security researcher prepares to outline vulnerabilities at upcoming Black Hat conference Jun 22, 2009 | 04:35 PM
By Tim Wilson
DarkReading
There are a lot of ways for your identity stolen to be stolen. Until last week, however, parking legally wasn't one that had occurred to most of us.
Last week, security researcher Joe Grand offered a preview of his upcoming presentation at the Black Hat USA conference, which will take place in Las Vegas next month. The subject of Grand's presentation: parking meters.
Grand says that so-called "smart" parking meters -- which are computerized, often networked, and can accept credit cards -- could be vulnerable to hacking. Attackers could breach the meters to steal credit card data or to gain access to debit cards that could be reset or reloaded, he warns.
In some cities, the meters are connected by wireless or infrared systems that could be hacked to give free parking or expire another driver's spot, Grand says.
Grand didn't give away all of the details of his presentation during the preview, but he said it's likely that others are exploring potential vulnerabilities in the networked meters.
I was wondering what negative you would come up with on this mtrain. It was two days, and I saw nothing for you, and I was a little worried about you. Glad to know you're still doing well.
Now, let's just go back to 1901, and we won't have to worry about hacking!
QuoteI was wondering what negative you would come up with on this mtrain. It was two days, and I saw nothing for you, and I was a little worried about you. Glad to know you're still doing well.
Now, let's just go back to 1901, and we won't have to worry about hacking!
Steve, just keeping it real. Some of us live in the real world, you and the others who doubt the hackers, can deny it all you want, just try getting a loan after using one of these things....
No one ever stole your identity from a coin-fed meter.
These meters also accept coins.
Can it read my fingerprint off the coin and steal my identity?
Can it take my photograph and steal my soul?
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 24, 2009, 05:05:37 PM
Steve, just keeping it real. Some of us live in the real world, you and the others who doubt the hackers, can deny it all you want, just try getting a loan after using one of these things....
No one ever stole your identity from a coin-fed meter.
I don't doubt the world of hacking - I work in IT for an eCommerce company, so I do have an Idea what they are capable of. Because of this, my personal feeling is that the best way to avoid hackers is to move into a padded room, with no communication to the outside world.
QuoteBecause of this, my personal feeling is that the best way to avoid hackers is to move into a padded room, with no communication to the outside world.
Now that is great sarcasm!
Again, Steve, think of how the devices all communicate to the Yates Building. Wireless perhaps? Thanks for the new meters, I'll stick with coins.
Psst, shoud we tell mtrain that the GPS chips in his cell phone and car are reporting his exact location to .... well, I've said too much already ... ;)
Charles - I'm betting I can go through your trash, at your curb, which is legal, and then sell your information, ruining your eternal life and you would never know about it, until you tried to next get credit. If you shred data, fine, I can pay Springfield's finest to seperate and put the data back together, just like the 3rd world countries do now with much of the US export of paper.
Its fine to know where I am, but what am I doing should be of more concern.
You are so right ... it is a scary world!
That's why I eat all my data sensitive trash! :D
Each person has the right not to use this new technology. With that said, I am happy to swipe my card next time I park.
Stephen - you owned a restaraunt downtown and heard complaints everyday. Do you think this will help?
^I guess they did not like them? Too advanced maybe? Looks like we may need to brush out the quarters.
You've got to be joking.
^I have a question into the head of parking for the city. I know the frankenstein meters were part of a pilot. They may have only had the equipment for a certain period before the vendor wanted it back.
I will say, government procurement is not the easiest thing in the world.
It was stated as a 3-month trial....guess they didn't work out so well
Quoteeffing ridonkulous
The only thing rediculous is NOT discussing something just because you think its "ridonkulous".
It would appear the COJ Parking Enforcement office found the smart meters to be
Quoteeffing ridonkulous
QuoteThe parking divisions phone has been busy for a solid hour
They knew you would be calling asking obvious questions. Perhaps a visit to them at 224 E. Forsyth would be more appropriate?
you have got to be kidding me? I really likes the meters that accepted credit cards. It made it so much easier to park Downtown. This really makes want to say....wtf?
Too bad they did not take advantage of our original push with Suzanne Jenkins to fund digital meters when she was on the council. The funding was there and could have paid for several meters years ago.
thats good to hear. thanks for the update.
Quotedemand that the technology be installed
How long have the bus shelters languished, all over some boobs on the side of a bus stop? I'm sure my council person will get right on adding the smart meters, right after his normal 8-5 nap he takes with regard to all city issues.
Demand that technology be installed? This is the same city that ONLY HAS WI-FI installed in libraries and patrol cars. No CITY department has WI-FI so why would we ever expect that ITD could/would install something so unknown to itself?
This is the same City ITD department that saw its website go down last Friday (www.coj.net) for hours during the middle of the day for "maintenance". The appearance of wrongdoing with Lauer was never good, but at least he was progressive in his thinking. The stories we could tell about ITD....UGH!
Quote from: Steve on June 23, 2009, 02:58:50 PM
Quote from: jeh1980 on June 23, 2009, 12:27:56 PMWhat?! :o Aw, come on! Don't we all think that this city is trying to do so?
Sometime I feel like the city is "trying" like the kid that got off the short bus is trying to win a sprint against world class athletes.
Seriously - St. Augustine has them now. How hard was this, really? I guarantee revenue collection will rise significantly with these meters.
You are right, revenues are up and they are significant.
mtrain, I don't know if you work for the city or are just repeating what you hear but you need to check your facts a little better. The entire Godbold Building is wi-fi. Part of the St James is wi-fi and the Ed Ball building, which houses ITD, by the way, is also wi-fi..somebody has been feeding you soem bad info.
JB - Show me on the City site where this is listed? Not saying you don't have your facts straight, but nothing is listed on the City site or ITD's site about Wi-Fi access.
I will tell you that none of the city's Community Centers or Senior Centers are wired for Wi-Fi, except the Balis which is connected to a library in San Marco.
I don't know that it is listed on the city site. I just know that those locations I mentioned are wi-fi. Not the entire St James, just the ground floor...
Would you concur that the Community centers and senior centers are not?
No because I don't know that to be a fact. But give me a day and I can likely get an answer.
OK. Would like to know.
Wifi? Advanced parking meters? More opportunities for free goodies. Let's get advertising sponsors for these too. Also, some for the police and fire pension fund! And, the City Council could be sponsored by the development community. This was a great idea. Let's keep it going. We should have a commercial sponsor for every line in the City budget and then we could close City government and do away with taxes. Maybe it will work out better than the stadium naming rights we now are giving up $5 million a year in bed tax to cover. ;D
Quote from: stephendare on October 14, 2009, 05:28:25 PM
too late, stjr. The City Council is already sponsored by the development community.
I wrote that originally but then thought it might be a little to mean spirited even if well deserved. Some council reps are naive or spineless while others are owned. Same result though.
Complete article on it in the Daily Record, a Jim Bailey publication, who is also running for Mayor in 2011.
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=529322
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 14, 2009, 04:12:38 PM
OK. Would like to know.
I checked with the city webmaster and there is no location on the city website that lists where any wi-fi hotspots are within city buildings. Sorry. I know thats not much help.
JB - I know, I am peeved about that too. The Library does an excellent job in promoting their wi-fi hotspots. But the City does an absolutely LOUSY job at it, about status quo for most things the city does, I guess.
I work with folks at Adult Services, and they are unhappy with this as well. Many seniors can afford a laptop that runs with wi-fi, and runs faster than most of the hand-me-down machines in the Senior Centers, but there is no wi-fi in these centers and they are used by more people daily, than most city buildings. But then again, it is the City and I am not suprised.
However given the current economic times, as a taxpayer, I would be less than pleased to learn the city was going to install wi-fi in a bunch of buildings that would only get used by a minimum number of people. Not to say those people are not important and deserve the access. I would just rather that tax dollar go to something to benefit the majority.
JB - Go check out Mary Singleton center and see the number of people in there, any time of the day. Believe me, they get good use out of that center and the way that data is collected now, to get stats back to the State for re-imbursement, could be improved 300% by a wi-fi system. Adding wi-fi is not expensive, and if ITD has it on its cushy floor and others have it, why don't more have it and what is the plan for extending it? More wi-fi, could mean, fewer employees needed.
mtrain, your comments and ideas are valid. I'm not the one to answer those questions though. Your city council person would be the one to ask and get the answers.
JB - My city council person isn't even worth gum on the bottom of my shoe.
How much would it cost to install WiFi in a senior citizens center? A connection would be maybe $50 to $100 a month (the City could probably get a better deal if they worked at it) plus a $50 to $100 wireless router?
Better yet, get one of the drug companies to sponsor WiFi there. When the senior logs on, a drug ad is the home page before they click through. See, just like the bus shelters, ads can pay for all our concerns.
In fact, we could ad WiFi to every bus shelter doing the same thing (maybe the WiFi ads could pay for the bus shelter and we wouldn't have to endanger our sign ordinance after all!). Just like the airports, you could surf the net while waiting for the bus. Now that would be nifty! :D
stjr - You are proposing something that makes absolutely perfect sense to someone who has to deal with the City and try and float something that makes perfect sense to a group of people who take perfectly good ideas and then sit on them for months.
Every bus could have wi-fi, its not physically impossible. But I'd rather JTA spend money to fix the potholes than add wi-fi on a bus.
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 15, 2009, 05:31:55 PM
But I'd rather JTA spend money to fix the potholes than add wi-fi on a bus.
I was actually referring to bus shelters but buses are viable also. Again, with ads this could be done at no expense to the pothole budget. JTA/COJ can still have money for potholes (hey, lets sell ads on the repair barricades to pay for the pothole repairs ;D ) No excuses. Ads are the new panacea!
I like the way you think, you are progressive and I think you'd make a great mayor!
I feel sorry for any individual who will charge fifty cents or one dollar on their credit card. That statement is based upon the detail in the image of the meter above (.50 per hour, max. stay two hours). And if anyone wishes to argue the point that they'd drop quarters in instead; There's still no point in replacing the meters. That's what the current ones accept already. These meters also increase the risk of fraud in the area of identity theft. Additionally. What are the odds of the Sun charging these meters regularly considering the actual lack of sunshine we get in Jacksonville? How long will these meters hold their charge? Will they hold their charge until morning before the sun hits them again? What happens if any particular meter is shaded throughout the day by tall buildings and doesn't get enough sunlight? These meters are a complete waste of money that can better be spent on more relevant items and/or services. It's simply more frivolous spending by the city.
In reality, the meters ought to be pulled up and trashed if there are no plans to expand them to public streets all across the county. This isn't 1950. DT has more parking spaces than people. The whole system is archaic and stymies downtown growth because it creates and uneven playing field and obstacle that does not exist in the burbs and other commercial districts.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 12, 2009, 06:31:40 AM
DT has more parking spaces than people. The whole system is archaic and stymies downtown growth because it creates and uneven playing field and obstacle that does not exist in the burbs and other commercial districts.
Actually, Lake, the City has a conspiracy going on with the parking lots and garages to eliminate all street parking over time. Haven't you noticed the "no parking" zones continuously expanding? We have well under half the street parking we had 20 years ago by my estimate. The only reason it's not more obvious is because so many fewer people visit downtown today than in the past. Should we somehow ever change that, finding street parking will be a fight to the death.
They now prevent you from parking within almost half a block of some corners and driveways. Subtract the never-used delivery zones, handicapped spaces, emergency vehicle accesses, fire hydrants, added driving lanes, "official vehicle" spaces, permitted parking spaces, rush hour prohibitions, $ky-high-way support column islands, and the umpteen other made up reasons to disallow curb parking, and it's getting nigh impossible to find a space regardless of it being metered or not. My bet is that within about 5 years, no curb side parking will be available in the core of downtown.
I drive and park on the streets of downtown daily. I have NEVER not found an on street metered spot to park within 2 blocks of my destination. The perception of the lack of parking downtown needs to stop. It simply is not true.
Same for me. I typically find a street metered spot within a block or two of my desired DT destination. Much closer to the front door or vendor than parking at your local Walmart or mall.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 14, 2009, 10:38:53 AM
Same for me. I typically find a street metered spot within a block or two of my desired DT destination. Much closer to the front door or vendor than parking at your local Walmart or mall.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 14, 2009, 10:26:29 AM
I drive and park on the streets of downtown daily. I have NEVER not found an on street metered spot to park within 2 blocks of my destination. The perception of the lack of parking downtown needs to stop. It simply is not true.
You find parking "easily" Downtown because the only major reason to park there during the WEEKDAY's is to visit government operations and that can be hit or miss. Even with government, in better times and before some functions were relocated to the Ed Ball building, by 9 AM. the riverfront public lot serving the Courthouse and City Annex (old City Hall) was usually full. So bad was parking, the courts had to come up with a special arrangement for jurors. Now, if you visit a bank or professional in an office building, or even the River Club, they usually provide parking in a garage for you so you wouldn't be as likely to notice.
My main point is if we had anything approaching the vibrant Downtown everyone says we are looking for, and that we once had, with with department and specialty stores, corporate offices, a major post office, newsstands, service providers, dentists and doctors, residential, more hotels, eateries, and nightlife, etc., I think it's obvious the existing metered parking couldn't begin to support such higher levels of activity. And, the shortage would be greatly magnified by the reduction in spaces I perceive to have taken place over the last few decades.
If you want to get a "simulation" of how "fragile" metered parking is, see how quickly it fills up when the Florida Theater or T-U Center has a full house. Now imagine those events, shopping, and a bevy of restaurants and night spots ongoing simultaneously, and a major group of corporate offices bringing in vendors, prospective customers and potential employees for interviews. Add a few "visitors" for the hoped for Downtown residents. Suddenly, you will realize how many curb spots are unavailable.
I'm telling you, over the last 2 or 3 decades, street parking has been substantially reduced. I remember how hard it was to find spaces when Downtown had department stores AND a lot more parking. We could drive around the block multiple times before finding a spot.
As originally stated, the only reason the reduction may not be more obvious is because there is so little reason for "visits" to today's Downtown.
Let's see if my perception is on target. Maybe Lake you could ask the City to give you a history of the number of meters in an apples to apples core Downtown area. Let's see what the raw and the "per capita" numbers are today versus in the past.
Yes, I agree it's about time. And that's all I have to say on that.
So a smart meter only costs $650? I wonder how much does a single pay station cost?
QuoteThe design elements of the Laura Street improvement project lean toward the “historic†but the way they work is more toward the 21st century.
The first of 50 state-of-the-art parking meters have been installed on the south end of the street between Bay Street and the Landing.
They have solar panels that recharge the internal battery, which powers an LCD readout and a wireless Internet connection that transmits the payments made with Visa or Mastercard.
The payments for an entire day are recorded at Bank of America and then a single transaction is processed and transferred to the account of the Tax Collector, said Bob Carle, chief of the City’s Parking Facilities and Enforcement Division.
The meters were tested last year in a pilot program. Several were installed at parking spaces under the Skyway tracks to make sure there was enough ambient light Downtown, even in the shade, to maintain the battery’s charge.
Carle said each meter costs $650, which is $300 more than a traditional meter that takes only quarters.
The decision to install $32,500 worth of parking meters in four blocks was “purely for the convenience of people who come Downtown,†said Carle.
“There’s a price for progress,†he said.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2011-02-01
I hate single pay stations, so I hope taxpayers are ok with a little extra expense for very much added convenience.
I use single pay stations at least 3x a week. They are slow, user unfriendly, will rip you the hell off if you aren't paying attention or you're a novice, and you have to pay attention to your spot very closely. They aren't "much" more user friendly than quarter meters, which I actually prefer since it gives me a way to get rid of loose change.
I parked on the "square" in St. Augustine a few weeks ago. Being a local lifer, it's still hard for me to come to terms with paying parking in St. Augustine (or Jax, for that matter) after all these years. But, St. Augustine seems intent on blanketing everything around today with meters or "no parking". Would probably need to walk close to a mile to escape them. That's OK for me, but not going to sell the family on it. And, I couldn't resist the best parking spot on the square right at St. George street on a crowded Saturday afternoon.
They have the single pay stations every four or so parking spaces. I found them to be most convenient. Took my credit card, printed a receipt with the time expiration to post in my window, and gave me up to 3 hours (which I took). I suppose if one machine doesn't work, you can walk a few more paces to find another one. Hopefully, they don't all malfunction at once!
Not only was the machine (maybe it's a different model than Simms used) convenient, simple, and affordable ($1.50/hour for prime parking), but I suppose it yields more $$ for the City of St. Augustine. If you leave before time expires, they can resell the same time over and over. Parking meters can't do that.
They also don't clutter up the sidewalk.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Fort-Lauderdale-Nov2010/P1420534/1104753807_9jjDb-M.jpg)
Personal preferences. I have used the model in the picture above, as well as two different models. I don't care for them because I know that they can be designed better and I know they are capable of being faster. I can tell you one thing: engineers from Georgia Tech did not have any input on the design or functionality of these things.
At this point, I have a ton of quarters and they are easier for me to use. I like the option of using a card for when I don't have quarters, but nothing beats the ease of use and convenience of slipping in a few quarters. Seems cheaper, too. (I pay between $1.50 and $5.00 an hour with machine vs. $1.00/hr with quarters)
QuoteI like the option of using a card for when I don't have quarters, but nothing beats the ease of use and convenience of slipping in a few quarters.
Except when you have everything but them. This is the 21st century. The majority of people don't walk around with a pocket full of quarters anymore. I can't tell you the amount of times I've ended up avoiding going someplace downtown during the day because of not having enough quarters on me and refusing to pay $3 hour to park in a garage. That's always been my main gripe with our archaic meters. If you're going to charge people, at least be end user friendly.
Quote from: stjr on February 01, 2011, 07:56:03 PM
I parked on the "square" in St. Augustine a few weeks ago. Being a local lifer, it's still hard for me to come to terms with paying parking in St. Augustine (or Jax, for that matter) after all these years. But, St. Augustine seems intent on blanketing everything around today with meters or "no parking". Would probably need to walk close to a mile to escape them. That's OK for me, but not going to sell the family on it. And, I couldn't resist the best parking spot on the square right at St. George street on a crowded Saturday afternoon.
They have the single pay stations every four or so parking spaces. I found them to be most convenient. Took my credit card, printed a receipt with the time expiration to post in my window, and gave me up to 3 hours (which I took). I suppose if one machine doesn't work, you can walk a few more paces to find another one. Hopefully, they don't all malfunction at once!
Not only was the machine (maybe it's a different model than Simms used) convenient, simple, and affordable ($1.50/hour for prime parking), but I suppose it yields more $$ for the City of St. Augustine. If you leave before time expires, they can resell the same time over and over. Parking meters can't do that.
I agree STJR. I live about 5 minutes outside of town and visit quite frequently. I've found the meters (although pricey) to be a much better alternative to having to rummage for quarters. The city garage is also a well placed and cheap/convenient place to park in DT St. Augustine. I much prefer to drive into town knowing that I can find decent parking at the garage nearby to most locations I frequent versus driving around looking for a vacant spot.
Jacksonville's outlying parking garages should be doing the same for DT however they are not near where anyone wants to go or the skyway serving them is not convenient or closed.