Metro Jacksonville

Just a news blurb here

DC Metrorail has REALLY piled up a major wreck.

In far Northeast DC, near the Maryland border, is a station above ground and just beyond a curve. Most of this line is underground, but somehow in this tiny space above ground, they managed to pile it up.

One train was in the station, a second train was "holding out" awaiting a chance to move into the station on signal, a THIRD train came out of the tube and plowed into the stopped SECOND train.

Six deaths so far and scores of injured. (But imagine this on an airliner? We'd be lucky to report 6 living!)

A couple of old railroad guy observations:

PHOTOS: The photo reeks of a TELESCOPING ACCIDENT, something most of us thought passed away with wooden passenger coaches. Certainly the Metro has anti-climbers on the car ends? Hell the SKYWAY has anti-climbers on it. 1910 Streetcar tech. This simple device which may have been left off in the wave of "new thought transit" of the 70's and 80's would have set them back all of about $100 dollars per car, INSTALLED! If you really want to see what this thing does, look on the "bumper" of the Skyway, front and center. It's just a small foot long metal plate with several ribs, when it hits another like equiped car, the ribs interlock and prevent telescopic accidents.

Secondly, this is either operators error, or signal error. The deaths are BUILDER ERROR, unfreakin believable, don't even TRY to sell me a vintage trolley without anticlimbers. Signal error will force the issue of PTC (Positive Train Control).

Keep us posted folks, this will be interesting...

OCKLAWAHA

(http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/Copy%20of%20g-cvr-090622-mertoTrain-408p.grid-4x2.jpg)

(http://media2.myfoxdc.com//photo/2009/06/22/Metro_Crash_10_20090622180600_640_480.JPG)

QuoteRed Line Collision Kills at Least 4

Two Red Line Metrorail trains collided this evening between the Fort Totten and Takoma stations, killing at least four people and injuring scores of passengers in what authorities called the transit system's deadliest crash ever. The trains struck with such force that part of one vaulted on top of the other.

Metro officials said the two trains were headed in the same direction, when one rear-ended the other shortly after 5 p.m. The female operator of the trailing train died.

"Obviously something went terribly wrong for two trains to be on the same track," Metro spokeswoman Lisa Farbstein said.

Mayor Adrian M. Fenty told reporters after 7 p.m. that four people were killed and scores injured. "This is the deadliest accident in the history of our Metro train transit system," Fenty said.

Authorities said rescuers were combing through the trains at the scene in Northeast Washington to to ensure they were evacuated.

"We're using heavy rescue equipment to cut open the cars to get whoever's trapped in there out," said D.C. Fire and Emergency Medical Services spokesman Alan Etter.

Passengers who climbed out of the wreckage described a violent, shuddering crash.

"All I heard was a boom," said Dylan Hooks, 17, who said he was on one of the trains. "Everybody started screaming. Somebody hit their head on the glass." The electricity went off, he said, and passengers had to open the doors themselves to exit.

Tom Baker, 47, said he was in the first car of the trailing train. It had pulled out of Takoma Park on the way to Fort Totten, he said, when the conductor said it was holding because there was a train in front. Then the trailing train started moving again. Soon, Baker said, there was an "enormous crashing jolt."

"You could hear all this crashing and glass breaking. I didn't hear any brakes at all." He said he saw the train lift into the air. Seats in his car were ripped out and tossed around. Some passengers were trapped; some screamed.

Savannah Green, 16, in the third car of the same train, described "a huge jolt," with some passengers hitting the side of the car.

Garrett Dorsey, 44, said he was in the second car of the train on the bottom. He said the male conductor told passengers the train had to stop for some kind of difficulty. While they were stopped, Dorsey said, there was "just a boom like an explosion."

The crash shut a section of the Red Line, Metro's busiest. Trains are operating between Glenmont and Silver Spring and between Shady Grove and Rhode Island Avenue. In the middle, Metro is offering a shuttle bus service, but the transit agency cautioned that it would likely be overwhelmed.

No details were available about the cause of the crash, the third time in the last 15 years involving the collision of two Metro trains. The last was in November 2004, when a Red Line train rolled backwards down a steep stretch of track, and smashed into another train at the Woodley Park station. Twenty people were injured in that crash.

"There will obviously be a very thorough investigation into what caused this derailment," Metro spokeswoman Farbstein said of today's crash. She said there were "many serious injuries" and that passengers were being taken to hospitals. "Our hearts are with the families of those who have passed," she said.

Police officials said families seeking information about people who may have been on the trains can call 202-727-9099.

Staff Writers David A. Fahrenthold, Rosalind S. Helderman, Maria Glod and Nick Anderson contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/06/22/ST2009062202480.html

Sadly folks have died or been injured for life in this wreck. The "train" in me is going back to those anti-climbers... I did a photo search and it appears they DID have them on the cars. However, they don't look right, seeming elongated - almost like the corrugated steel on a Amtrak car's side. The Skyway has a more traditional type which can be seen in this photo (just look where you would hang a front licence plate).  
(http://www.urbanrail.net/am/jack/KingsAve2.jpg)

So the Skyway would seem pretty telescope proof, even if expanded and allowed to reach it's 40-55 MPH capabilities.


(http://www.afro.com/Portals/1/inthenews/dcmetro.JPG)
Humm? Our Skyway Stations look about 100% better then this!

Take a good look at the DC Metro car, about 1/4 of the anticlimber on each side of the center of the car seems attached to the car frame. The separate center portion of the anticlimber seems to float, perhaps attached to the body, perhaps to the draft gear (coupler pocket area). Is this the critical flaw? Could it be the car rode up and over the couplers and thus missed the anticlimber all together? I got a feeling this is going to get very interesting, especially since both Amtrak and the FTA are trying to write "standard" car plans that could be used by all agency's.

Any Thoughts?

OCKLAWAHA

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(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-090622-metroCrash/ss-090623-metro-crash-03.ss_full.jpg)

(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-090622-metroCrash/ss-090623-metro-crash-04.ss_full.jpg)

(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-090622-metroCrash/ss-090622-metroCrash-04.ss_full.jpg)

(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-090622-metroCrash/ss-090622-metroCrash-01.ss_full.jpg)

(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-090622-metroCrash/ss-090622-metroCrash-05.ss_full.jpg)

Very sad.

If I still lived there, I could have been riding that train. I lived on the Red Line in Wheaton, MD and Silver Spring, MD. The picture of the station looks like Sliver Spring. Ock's right, the station looks a bit lacking, but it has been there for 20 or so years and it was high design when it opened.

QuoteHumm? Our Skyway Stations look about 100% better then this!

That's more of an indictment on our Skyway than it is the Metro.  Our stations are another element of the skyway system that are clearly overbuilt.

Anyway, here is an image I took of the Red Line's New York Avenue station earlier this year.  Its a little more modern.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/459278123_LLhnr-M.jpg)

IMO, the DC stations are quite attractive (especially for 1970's architecture)....now I would agree that the underground stations are better than those above grounds, but the system as a whole has held up pretty well for 30+ years. 

Looks like the anti-climbers don't work on these cars...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/WMATA_Shady_Grove_accident_-_Final_positions.jpg)
Final position of the trains involved in the January 6, 1996 accident at the Shady Grove station in Gaithersburg, Maryland.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/NTSB-Woodley-Park-Accident.png)
NTSB photo of the November 3, 2004 accident at the Woodley Park-Zoo/Adams Morgan station on the Washington Metro.

Gotta love the placement of the two trash bags, sort of an urban art statement?  

OCKLAWAHA

I really hope this is not another instance of operator texting while driving.  These seem to be occuring with alarming frequency in all modes of transportation.

(http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/te365.jpg)

(http://www.chesapeakelifemag.com/images/travel/dec08_baycreek3.jpg)

A couple of old school anticlimbers, (check out these front bumpers and the ridges). These look NOTHING like the Washington Metro cars anemic little ridges, as I said (see the photo) the front of the Skyway cars looks MUCH safer then the DC Metro does. Steampunk, old funk, sometimes grandfather had it RIGHT!

OCKLAWAHA

Well, the old Transit Monster is 1 for 1 so far on this wreck.  

QuoteBy Angela Greiling Keane and Chris Dolmetsch

June 23 (Bloomberg) -- The train car that slammed into the back of another on Washington’s Metro system, killing nine people, was an older model that U.S. safety investigators had called for replacing or overhauling 13 years ago.

The car “telescoped” in the accident during the evening rush hour yesterday, Debbie Hersman, chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said today at a press conference. The front end of the car was sheared off.

The board, which is investigating the deadliest accident in the Washington system’s 33-year history, had advised Metro that cars of that type would crumple in a crash after a January 1996 collision between two trains that killed a train operator. The agency recommended that Metro improve its rail cars’ crashworthiness.

The cars on the train that hit the other were the oldest type on Metro. The transit agency told the safety board in 2002 that a consulting firm found reinforcing them to better withstand crashes would be “neither desirable or practical.”

“The problem is funding,” rail-safety attorney Larry Mann, of the law firm Alper & Mann PC, said today in an interview. “The Metro system is really always in the red. The funding is not there all the time to do anything other than maintain the equipment. They have purchased new equipment over the years, but they haven’t had the funds to retrofit.”

Reviewing ‘Survivability’

NTSB investigators will review the “survivability” of the rail cars in addition to train operators’ phone and texting records, signals and Metro’s automated operating system, Hersman said.

“We don’t know at this point whether or not the operator could have seen the train ahead of them in time to stop,” she said. “We’re going to be conducting a thorough accident investigation.”

The trains shouldn’t have collided if the signals and the automated operating system were working correctly, said Mann, who is based in Washington.

“In the system itself, if it’s computer-operated, there should be no way trains would collide, he said. “There is an automatic stopping system.”

Washington’s Metro, run by the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, is the second-largest U.S. heavy-rail transit system after New York City’s subway, according to the American Public Transportation Association.

30 Years Old

In addition to Metro’s failure to replace old train cars, the transit system didn’t follow recommendations from the safety board that it install data recorders on all trains to monitor speed, braking and other information, Hersman said today. One of the trains in yesterday’s accident had nine recorders, while the other, the train that struck the stopped one, had none.

The NTSB will attempt to retrieve the recorders, Hersman said.

Metro spokesman Cathy Asato had no immediate comment today about the NTSB recommendations.

“We don’t have that at the moment,” she said in a phone interview.

The 1000 Series cars, the model on the train that ran into the other, are more than 30 years old. Metro has 290 of the cars, the oldest on its system, among more than 1,100 in service, according to Metro’s Web site. The cars were manufactured by Rohr Inc., a Chula Vista, California-based company that was acquired by Goodrich Corp. in 1997.

Crash Posts

Metro cars, unlike those of Amtrak and freight-train locomotives, don’t have so-called crash posts, Mann said. The steel posts, which he described as being like barber poles, are positioned in locomotives in front of operators to protect them if there’s a crash.

“Unfortunately, when we’re dealing with mass transit; there are no standards by the federal government,” Mann said. “They’re basically self-regulated. This is certainly a matter that might need some congressional oversight.”

Nine people were killed in the accident, Steven Taubenkibel, a Metro spokesman, said in a telephone interview. Washington Mayor Adrian Fenty said at the press conference today that 76 injured people were taken to area hospitals.

The rush-hour crash occurred at high speed on the east side of the system’s U-shaped Red Line in Northeast Washington at about 5 p.m. local time. The train that had stopped was waiting for an order to go on, according to Metro General Manager John Catoe.

‘Horrific’ Scene

One car landed on top of another, in a scene Fenty said yesterday was “as horrific as you can imagine.”

The cars in the train that was struck were newer models, from the 3000 and 5000 series. Metro has about 364 Series 2000 and 3000 cars, made by Ansaldo Breda, a unit of Finmeccanica SpA, Italy’s biggest defense company. The 190 5000 Series cars were made by Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles SA of Spain, also known as CAF. Metro’s newest cars, 184 from the 6000 Series that weren’t involved in the crash, were made by Alstom SA, the world’s largest trainmaker.

OCKLAWAHA

:(

Quote from: hightowerlover on June 23, 2009, 06:36:13 PM
:(

Trouble with these 1970-80 vintage cars is we had almost killed our railroad industry by that time, as a result, we lost builders like St. Louis, Budd, Pullman Standard and a dozen more smaller operations. So when these things were bid out, they wouldn't even get an American bid. So surrendering safety to the gods of the railway, we dropped our standards and shopped in Europe, Latin America and the Orient. Most of the equipment on those continents is light or ultra-light. Trains are short and fast, freight cars tend to be tiny by our standards and Passenger trains fast but almost airline construction.

Try smacking two 737's head on on a runway, at the same speeds this train was moving and see if you get ANY survivors? Tin foil slaughter.

The good that will come from this tragic wreck is we are going to see some big bucks go into the AMTRAK/FRA/FTA new standard car plans. BRAVO! Now will SOMEONE reopen an American car building plant? Jacksonville would be ripe for such a grand old industry.  

OCKLAWAHA

The news from up here (I live in Alexandria VA at the moment) is that there was a bad sensor on the line (the metro is all automated at rush hour) and that the operator pulled the emergency brake but it apparently was too late or did not deploy with enough force.  obviously this is all preliminary sort of information, but it definitely wasn't the operator texting.  all they do at 5pm is make sure the doors open and close..

here's an updated news story-
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1702179

Quote from: BridgeTroll on June 23, 2009, 11:33:26 AM
I really hope this is not another instance of operator texting while driving.  These seem to be occuring with alarming frequency in all modes of transportation.

Yea it is, maybe humans shouldn't run them any more.

Ock what prevents these trains from being automated instead of operated?

Quote from: Coolyfett on June 26, 2009, 01:48:58 AM

Quote from: BridgeTroll on June 23, 2009, 11:33:26 AM
I really hope this is not another instance of operator texting while driving.  These seem to be occuring with alarming frequency in all modes of transportation.

Yea it is, maybe humans shouldn't run them any more.

Ock what prevents these trains from being automated instead of operated?

Good morning friend, actually the DC metro IS running on automation. I'm not sure the degree of it, but it appears it goes into full automation during the rush hours. Remember my post that this would be "Signaling Failure?" As it turns out I'm 2 for 2 on this, as it appears a trackside signal sensor failed to detect the traffic and adjust the trains accordingly... Sad. The operator actually tried to save the lives of her trains passengers and not unlike the famous Casey Jones, she rode the cab right into the stalled train while trying to apply a manual emergency brake override. Her bravery hasn't been mentioned, but she could easily have turned and ran back through the train. Perhaps the question should be can we please go back to HUMAN operation with signal help?

In such a case as human operation, she might have had a hunch that this is always a tight spot, something beyond the power of computers..."speculation." Thus she may have slowed down, entered the curve half expecting the situation ahead.

FYI - The Skyway is also fully automated, but in reality has operators at the Skyway center in Brooklyn. Those little lock boxes on the front dash of each Skyway car contain manual controls should we ever want to use it, or need it.  

OCKLAWAHA