Jacksonville Should Love A Streetcar: Ten Reasons
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/454391878_7oksX-M.jpg)
Ten reasons why Jacksonville's peer cities are pursuing, building, or already operating streetcar systems. From Street Smart: Streetcars and Cities in the 21st Century.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-jacksonville-should-love-a-streetcar-ten-reasons
Send this thread over to city hall. Some will say its the build it and they will come idea. Jacksonville is waiting for a swift kick in the a$$.
Ok lets say we some forget that this is Jacksonville, where do we start and end this. Are we also hoping that this will spur other developments like Channelside in Tampa. I hope so. I was just in Tampa last weekend, the Aquarium, Channelside, Ybor city all packed with people. Even the Casino there was packed so before anyone says anything about the economy, not everybody is hurting. We(the city) needs to really get it together.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 29, 2009, 04:42:23 AM
Ok lets say we some forget that this is Jacksonville, where do we start and end this.
Simple. Something that links Riverside to Downtown and Springfield. You can virtually guarantee that you'll have decent ridership by linking dense neighborhoods with major employment centers, downtown, parks and cultural establishments in the core. You'll also pentrate neighborhoods in need of economic stimulating, like LaVilla, Brooklyn and the Cathedral District. A starter four or five mile line also would not break the bank (could be done for $50 million or less) and could be used as a pilot project to demonstrate the power of rail in a community like Jacksonville. Rome was not built in a day. Follow Houston (7.5 miles) and Charlotte's (9 miles) lead. Start small, logical, efficient and work your way up.
What great timing on this post! Today I posted Public Space is Good, But We Need To Talk Transportation Too on Urban Jacksonville: http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too
I too point to the value of streetcars in reviving our urban core. I'd like to host a live chat next week to discuss some of these issues. What representatives from the city and JTA should I try to invite to the chat?
Lets put that 100 mil to work now!
Quote from: urbanjacksonville on May 29, 2009, 07:14:32 AM
What great timing on this post! Today I posted Public Space is Good, But We Need To Talk Transportation Too on Urban Jacksonville: http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/05/29/public-space-is-good-but-we-need-to-talk-transportation-too
I too point to the value of streetcars in reviving our urban core. I'd like to host a live chat next week to discuss some of these issues. What representatives from the city and JTA should I try to invite to the chat?
Bill Bishop, Glorious Johnson, Mike Miller and perhaps Adam Hollingsworth would all be good public candidates to bring on the show to discuss mass transit. However, if you're going to have a city or JTA representative on the show, I'd recommend having Bob Mann as a guest on the same show. This way you'll have a discussion that can include someone with actual background knowledge on these types of systems and what it takes to pull them off.
Great article. Now march it over to City Hall and tell them to tell JTA to get it done, with the $100 million that was set aside in the BJP. JTA gets it, wants to do it, but with no direction or clarification on the $100 million from City Hall or City Council it isn't going to happen.
I wonder if JTA needs help in putting together an actual compelling argument to council? Its going to take an all around effort and the transit authority is going to have to get vocal, like they are for advertising on bus shelters and BRT. As long as JTA remains mum on these issues, the fight for them will take longer.
QuoteNow march it over to City Hall and tell them to tell JTA to get it done, with the $100 million that was set aside in the BJP. JTA gets it, wants to do it, but with no direction or clarification on the $100 million from City Hall or City Council it isn't going to happen.
So I'll copy the same post from the Main Street Pocket Park thread, and let you readers replace "revitalized Downtown" with "smart, integrated urban transit options."
QuoteThis is what the citizens of Jacksonville want -- a revitalized Downtown area. Our city can't get it right b/c politics gets in the way of leadership. This Mayor and this Council just aren't cut out for making smart decisions about it. They are penny-wise and pound foolish, and don't realize that a revitalized Downtown would be a boon for the entire region, including their own districts...
Ditto to all above.
Btw, here are "Guiding Principals" # 1 & 2 from the Reality Check First Coast exercise that was conducted last week down at WGV:
1. Alternate transportation modes.
2. Redevelopment and urbanization.
And here's a info on what the purpose of the exercise was:
"A visioning exercise designed to discuss, analyze and develop alternative growth scenarios for our region through the year 2060.
On May 21, 2009, Reality Check First Coast brought nearly 300 leaders from the public, private and nonprofit sectors together in groups of eight to 10 to discuss, analyze and develop alternative growth scenarios for our region.
The exercise is designed to raise awareness of projected levels of region-wide growth and to lay the foundation for the development of a concrete list of next steps to meet the region’s future job, housing, transportation, infrastructure and recreation needs.
How should we grow? Where will grow?
By the year 2060, 1.6 million* additional people will be living in our Region, requiring the addition of new jobs and housing to accommodate this growth. As a region, we have choices to make. Where will development occur? How will we maintain open spaces and our natural resources? What will our transportation and infrastructure needs be? Those questions will be considered at Reality Check First Coast.
At the Reality Check event, regional leaders were challenged to rethink where and how to grow the First Coast in a way that adds value to the local economy, while preserving our environment and quality of life. Participants divided into groups of eight to 10 will discuss and allocate housing and job growth throughout the First Coast. The First Coast consists of seven counties, including Baker, Clay, Duval, Flagler, Nassau, Putnam and St. Johns â€" and their 27 municipalities."
Zoo, I wonder what peoples reactions would be to Jacksonville spending $50 million to build a streetcar line in the urban core?
I'll take this one. Better than spending $100 million to purchase isolated office parks and shopping centers and taking them off the taxrolls for BRT a decade down the road.
As I said in a meeting with JTA a few months ago, it all depends on how you present a plan. If you sell it as spending $50 million for a streetcar line only for the urban core, they'll take it as well as spending a billion for dedicated busways that don't stretch past Gateway, Regency, Wilson Blvd and Baymeadows.
If you sell transit as a part of a vision, an investment in our future and a start to actually implementing a true integrated regional transportation plan, you may be suprised. The US is choke full of successful examples out there to follow.
Maybe its time for JTA to fire their marketing staff and hire John Delaney? Who would have thought he would have been successful at selling this community the BJP? Its all about marketing and selling a vision. Right now, that's not happening at 100 North Myrtle Avenue or 117 W. Duval St.
I agree with that Lake.
they are just so much cuter than a nasty old bus
I don't think today would be a great day to take our transit officials this info. I mean with our high powered delegation all attending the Federal 8 billion dollar transit workshop in Houston. ::)
Quote from: fsujax on May 29, 2009, 09:29:04 AM
Zoo, I wonder what peoples reactions would be to Jacksonville spending $50 million to build a streetcar line in the urban core?
Deconsolidation?
How about the public's reaction to spending $100 million to spruce up Kids kampus/Metropolitan Park? After all, that's just what the Mayor stated in his press conference last week. Which one do you really think would benefit the community more?
11) You can ride drunk and worry free in a Streetcar
Say good-bye to those pesky DUI charges and countless speeding tickets. Actually that could be one reason the idea hasn't been fully embraced. Where would the JSO get its funding without traffic citations and whatnot?
QuoteIts all about marketing and selling a vision.
Problem with this is, everyone, including pols, thinks they know how to market, just like everyone, including pols, thinks they know how to plan.
QuoteHow about the public's reaction to spending $100 million to spruce up Kids kampus/Metropolitan Park? After all, that's just what the Mayor stated in his press conference last week. Which one do you really think would benefit the community more?
I can see it now. COJ tackles Kids Kampus/Metropolitan Park like it did the Main Street Pocket Park, and the downtown ends up with another, larger (better - it's riverfront, after all) spot for its social service beneficiaries to spend their time.
I'll take $50M on connective, economic-development-generating, streetcar any day!
Zoo, I couldnt agree more. It needs to be sold as is Downtown is for everyone! and the streetcar is only part of the master plan!
Interestingly enough, today I just read an article in Model Railroader Magazine about Savannah's new (started in 2008) River St. Streetcar system. It runs for 1 mile down the middle of historic River St. on an abandoned Norfolk Southern freight line. Since it runs by all of the historic shops and restaurants of this historic district, it attracts a good deal of ridership. Here's an informative link... http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/savannah.htm
Anyways, in all seriousness, how difficult would it be for us to present an idea like this to the city? Is this something that MetroJax could get moving?
Do any of our experts on the forums have a map of best possible street car lines?
What would really help it fly would be a 50/50 partnership with a private company or group.
Quote from: coredumped on May 29, 2009, 09:25:29 PM
Do any of our experts on the forums have a map of best possible street car lines?
JTA has already done a study that includes downtown, Riverside, Springfield, and San Marco....check it out on their website
How about Jacksonville powering a new trolley system with the battery's from its new lithium ion battery factory and time it where both come on line at the same time. J-ville could be there first customer to show there support.
Quote from: ralpho37 on May 29, 2009, 09:12:24 PMAnyways, in all seriousness, how difficult would it be for us to present an idea like this to the city? Is this something that MetroJax could get moving?
Its been easy to present the ideas. The problem has been in getting JTA to publicly back an effort to gain council support to allow the BJP rapid transit money to go towards construction as opposed to ROW only. Right now, it appears that JTA's top priorities are BRT and bus shelters.
Quote from: coredumped on May 29, 2009, 09:25:29 PM
Do any of our experts on the forums have a map of best possible street car lines?
Here's JTA's plan:
(http://media.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/transit/jta_streetcar_study/streetcarrreport090808_page_27.jpg)
The first phase would run from Five Points to the Hyatt downtown. While there are several kinks that still need to be worked out with the suggested route, its a start.
Here is a link to the Metro Jacksonville article and comments that suggest ways that we can improve on JTA's preliminary plan:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jan-streetcars-coming-to-downtown-jacksonville
Just going back to a question (off topic, sorry) I asked awhile ago that I don't think was ever really answered.
This article defines choice riders as "people who own a car but choose to use transit instead." Is there a distinction for people who have the means but choose NOT to own a car and use transit instead?
If they have the means but choose to use transit instead of purchasing a car, they would be still be choice riders.
Lake - Sell this idea at the beaches. The announcement of the JTA to use the Beaches Trolley shows that there is a need for transportation up and down the beach. People use it. It is a densely populated area that would do well with a rail system. Besides, third street is limited to 35 MPH anyway, so the trolley system is a no-brainer there.
A trolley system would be perfect at Jax Beach either along the oceanfront boardwalk or down 1st Street North. It would ease parking congestion and traffic in the area, benefiting businesses and making the area more pedestrian-friendly - definitely an economic booster for the area.
Lake - No response, perfect opening to JTA, yet you want to run rails downtown? Why? What is up?
No response to what? A streetcar system at the beaches? Go for it. I believe it has been discussed on this site in the past by Ocklawaha.
As for me, if you're going to make an investment in rail, the initial investment should be made in a fashion that does the following:
1. Connects DT with dense residential neighborhoods
2. Accesses underutilized areas to spur dense infill development
3. Connects with other modes of transit at the proposed intermodal transportation center
4. Complements the skyway by feeding riders into it.
5. Should not break the bank or require raising taxes to implement or maintain annually.
Since my main position is to take advantage of rail as a redevelopment tool in the Urban Core, that should be more than enough to answer the question of why I prefer reconnecting Jacksonville's densest neighborhoods with fixed transit before building an isolated system at the beach.
Lake, I'll add to your last post by saying: having isolated or even independent systems at the Beach, STJTC and Downtown would not damage our odds of Mass Transit Development. Since Light Rail Transit and Streetcar can be interchangable (depending on construction). This just means as the system grows, many of the feeders would already be in place to create network.
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteHow about Jacksonville powering a new trolley system with the battery's from its new lithium ion battery factory and time it where both come on line at the same time. J-ville could be there first customer to show there support.
I don't mean to be a negative Ned, but an idea like this is far too innovative for the existing Jax power structure. Here are two un-verified bits of info that support that thought (and if someone wants to go verify or dis-credit, I welcome that):
1. I believe Paul Crawford of the JEDC has been looking into improving downtown's parking situation for at least the past 18 months (and probably more likely since the 2006 Task Force studies). I and others have personally sent to JEDC suggestions regarding an integrated fare/parking system, that links various modes of transit (including skyway, trolley and water, taxi for example), on-street parking and parking garages that can be deployed free/cheap because it uses revenue-sharing model.
So a visitor to Downtown would be able to park at a meter or a garage by swiping a pre-loaded card, use that same card to use the transit system, and re-load the card at Downtown retailers. Whatever unit the card is swiped through would automatically direct the revenue from the swipe to the appropriate accounts - some for city, some for private parking/transportation owner, and some for system supplier. No meter collection, no quarters, no human disbursement of revenue. The convenience and ease of this for the user seems very forward-thinking (at least imho).
Because of the Herculean coordination effort it would take to get public agencies (JTA, COJ), private transportation providers (water taxi) and private garage/lot owners to get on board for all of their mutual benefit, and then the effort it would take to get Council to approve, I expect JEDC is not even considering this. Or maybe they are, and the revenue-sharing percentage is too high. Either way, what I expect we'll get out of Mr. Crawford's efforts are a few more 2-hr meters that take quarters only.
2. A local company, started by an engineer/scientist who formerly worked at JEA, has developed a method for turning garbage into electricity without massive amounts of harmful by-product. They have had conversations with JEA and COJ over the past several years about building a plant somewhere in Northeast Florida, but Duval/Jax has consistently indicated they would continue to deal with waste through existing locations/methods (Waste Management/Trailer Ridge, anyone?)
This company now has financing in place to build the plant, and a contract with Tallahassee and surrounding counties for waste processing and plant development in that part of the State (I think it is being built in Leon County). So here we have a local, innovative business that will be implementing its forward thinking somewhere other than its Jacksonville hometown.
Again, I don't want to dash anyone's hopes that Jacksonville can be forward-thinking and innovative. My goal in putting this info out there is to give our local decision-makers a "kick-in-the-pants" about what they are blowing. It also seems much of the citizenry doesn't care, or is terrified of moving out of the "good-ol-boy" age, or the political and decision-making process here would be evolving more dramatically...
What parking situation downtown. There is an abundance of parking. Rip out the meters put up some 2 hour signs and barely enforce.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 31, 2009, 10:52:08 AM
What parking situation downtown. There is an abundance of parking. Rip out the meters put up some 2 hour signs and barely enforce.
That parking could easily be spun into a huge supporter of FREE curbside parking AND mass transit.
Say? Does ANYONE have a fix on the garage and lot locations and approximate capacity? How about total meter revenue? Lake you want us to explore this in the coming week? I've got a hunch that a solution, as I explained it to MJ and Councilman Bishop is the solution. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 31, 2009, 12:51:10 AM
Lake, I'll add to your last post by saying: having isolated or even independent systems at the Beach, STJTC and Downtown would not damage our odds of Mass Transit Development. Since Light Rail Transit and Streetcar can be interchangable (depending on construction). This just means as the system grows, many of the feeders would already be in place to create network.
OCKLAWAHA
The money to build it at the beach before the core would reduce the amount that you could invest in the core, unless the beach communities decide to pay for it themselves or someone donates a big pot of money. In addition, a system of isolated systems would also require multiple O&M facilities, thus increasing the implementation costs on the community as a whole.
Jacksonville is not ready for streetcars, commuter rail, or any of these envogue items; when we grow up and realize that we are a big city, and finally know who we really are, then we'll be ready for streetcars, commuter rail, and other types of mass transit outside of just bus transit.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2009, 01:55:02 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 31, 2009, 12:51:10 AM
Lake, I'll add to your last post by saying: having isolated or even independent systems at the Beach, STJTC and Downtown would not damage our odds of Mass Transit Development. Since Light Rail Transit and Streetcar can be interchangable (depending on construction). This just means as the system grows, many of the feeders would already be in place to create network.
OCKLAWAHA
The money to build it at the beach before the core would reduce the amount that you could invest in the core, unless the beach communities decide to pay for it themselves or someone donates a big pot of money. In addition, a system of isolated systems would also require multiple O&M facilities, thus increasing the implementation costs on the community as a whole.
Right, but as I said before, I don't see us paying for the SJTC "system" or anything within the beach cities. They COULD however plan and qualify for federal funding without COJ being involved, unless their heads are in a noose to our local AUTHORITY. OCKLAWAHA
I believe their heads are.
The JTA is the agency recognized by the Feds for receipt of Transit dollars for Duval County, so unless JTA agreed, the Beaches cities - or anyone else - could not get Federal transit funding.
Quote from: heights unknown on May 31, 2009, 08:26:14 PM
Jacksonville is not ready for streetcars, commuter rail, or any of these envogue items; when we grow up and realize that we are a big city, and finally know who we really are, then we'll be ready for streetcars, commuter rail, and other types of mass transit outside of just bus transit.
Heights Unknown
Heights, sad part is, we once had Commuter rail, and we abandoned it. We once had the largest train station south of Washington D.C.. At one time it was even the busiest in the world, and we turned it into a "gun show center". We once had the largest Streetcar system in the state, and we sold them out and scrapped them. We once had multiple bus lines (Greyhound, City Coach, Tamiami Trails, Trailways, Colonial, Southeastern Stages and the San Jose Lines) but we allowed them to waste away, while our planners want today's bus station "Out of Downtown." We once had the largest City Bus transit system in Florida. We combined it with a state highway builder and named it "An Authority." Then we fell to 2Nd, then 3Rd, and we are teetering on a collapse to number 5, if Orlando, and Tampa, step up their efforts. We built 1/2 of a DPM system, then lost interest and converted it to a monorail, then quit any improvements calling it political suicide. Now we have citizens calling to dismantle the whole project. We could already have Light Rail up and running but they told THAT consultant to leave town or not work again.
Heights Unknown? After all this industrious success, you guys REALLY think I could just walk away from this? Bring it on Jacksonville!OCKLAWAHA
I don't know Lake and Charles, one of their planners sure wants to talk to me...Wonder what they have in mind?
I would like to believe that Jacksonville is ready. It's our leaders that are not.
How about 10 reasons why it should love a bus instead of a streetcar:
1) Cheaper
2) Cheaper
3) Cheaper
4) Cheaper
5) Cheaper
6) Cheaper
7) Cheaper
8) Cheaper
9) Cheaper
10) Cheaper
If you want streetcars, go where they are, stop wasting time, money and resources asking for something not important to MOST taxpayers here.
SO when did you do a survey and last time I checked I was paying taxes also.
Quote from: mtraininjax on June 17, 2009, 11:42:52 PM
How about 10 reasons why it should love a bus instead of a streetcar:
1) Cheaper
2) Cheaper
3) Cheaper
4) Cheaper
5) Cheaper
6) Cheaper
7) Cheaper
8) Cheaper
9) Cheaper
10) Cheaper
If you want streetcars, go where they are, stop wasting time, money and resources asking for something not important to MOST taxpayers here.
I guess you could say its also cheaper to hire a prostitute for an hour than to establish a true relationship with someone. The core has had buses since the 1930s and look at it today:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/485149318_BzZH6-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/483232125_QKjwK-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/479043113_RTnvJ-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453365740_A7RnN-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453366061_CDCtG-M.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2570-p1040832.JPG)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/520607018_E7HyE-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/520610048_FnaCC-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/520611125_mQpiG-M.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4255-p1080984.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4238-p1080970.JPG)
Your rubber wheeled options, both the regular bus and faux trolley, have done nothing to spur development or increase property values since their beginnings in the 1930s.
Now we get news that Jax has one of the weakest economies in the US right now.
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/06/15/daily28.html?surround=lfn&ana=test
Regardless of how you feel, what we have done in the past is clearly not working (see images above). Considering Jax is in need of an economic catalyst swift kick in the pants, streetcars are an economic development tool and buses (fake trolleys included) are not, here are ten real reasons that suggest fixed transit is worth exploring:
1. Portland Streetcar(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4256-img_5826-g.jpg)
stimulated $3.5 billion and 10,212 new residential units within 3 blocks of the streetcar corridor since it was approved in 1997.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-apr-elements-of-urbanism-portland
2. Seattle South Lake Union Streetcar(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3241-2110112096_a04e021a76_o.jpg)
stimulated 6,100 residential units and 3.3 million sf of commercial space within 4 blocks of the streetcar corridor after it was approved in 2005.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-seattle-streetcar-opens
3. Tacoma Link(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2175-img_33153.jpg)
stimulated over 2,000 residential units along the route since operation began in 2003.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-sep-im-smaller-than-jax-and-i-have-rail-tacoma
4. Little Rock River Rail Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/454392067_yGVyp-M.jpg)
$400 million in development and 600 new residential units within 2 blocks of streetcar alignment since operation began in 2004.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jan-affordable-streetcar-little-rock-river-rail
5. Tampa TECO Streetcar(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8274-p1170881.JPG)
As of 2008, $1 billion in private development along streetcar route since the operation began in 2002.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-dec-elements-of-urbanism-tampa
6. Kenosha Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/511602800_UANXX-600x10000.jpg)
350 units and $150 million in development along a 1.9 mile line in a really small town since operation began in 2000. That city is now considering a $16 million, 4-mile extension.
7. Memphis Streetcar(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1955-121914296_ea0199eb90_b.jpg)
$2 billion in development along streetcar corridor since operation began in 1993.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-aug-im-smaller-than-jax-and-i-have-rail-memphis
^http://Peer%20City%20Handout%20for%20distribution.pdf (http://peer%20city%20handout%20for%20distribution.pdf)
8. Charlotte Trolley(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4928-96699096.jpg)
The success since its opening in 1996 has spurred the implementation of a starter 9.6 mile light rail that already carries over 21,700 riders a day.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-may-rail-ridership-exceeds-expectations
9. Norfolk's Tide Light Rail(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/497401341_6zLRc-M.jpg)
The economy may be down but this 7.4-mile line is already spurring development that Jacksonville can only dream of at this stage.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/497401411_gw97w-M.jpg)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-apr-a-lesson-for-jacksonville-norfolks-tide-light-rail
10. Dallas M-Line Streetcar(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/483140228_6Zck8-M.jpg)
Began operation in 1989, spurred massive redevelopment in Uptown Dallas and led to the community's acceptance of light and commuter rail systems. Btw, its a volunteer service with no fares to ride.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-mar-affordable-streetcar-m-line-streetcar
Quote"To say DART Rail's impact has been substantial for the Dallas region's economy would be an understatement," said Dr. Bernard Weinstein, director of the University of North Texas Center for Economic Development and Research. "It's a trend that's impossible to miss; the local business community certainly hasn't."
Beyond the jobs and direct economic benefits generated by construction of the system, DART Rail is dramatically changing the urban landscape with more than $7 billion in current, planned and projected transit-oriented developments (TODs) springing up around station areas.
In a November 2007 study, Weinstein and colleague Dr. Terry Clower project transit-oriented development near DART Rail eventually will generate more than $46 million each year to area schools, $23.5 million to member cities, millions more to other local taxing entities.
http://www.dart.org/about/economicimpact.asp
Isn't sending extra money to schools your thing? Do you really believe buses will result in developments that will pay property taxes that will send more money to schools?
Lake... your ten reasons are much better than mtrains ten reasons.
There is a reason more cities are jumping on board. I'm not Ocklawaha, but I've traveled enough to know that these things spur the development and density that Jacksonville has struggled to attract. Being "cheaper" (which is highly debatable that buses are cheaper over time) is what has gotten us to where we are today. Now its time to be sensible.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/533007246_hLfEy-L.jpg)
More and more cities are seeing the light and it looks like the Feds are slowly coming around also. Jacksonville is at a important crossroads. Mass transit in the form of rail is something most cities of any size or significance are jumping into. Jacksonville needs to decide if it is going to be a player or a bystander left behind. I hope for the former but I feel we are destined for the latter.
BT I agree with your last post. With state of the economy it will be tough though. A broke city and sub pat leadership does not spell well for our city. Its almost if time had run out on Jacksonville now
the next few months will be key....lets see if streetcars make it into the region's Long Range Transportation Plan Update.