With a brief family stop in Detroit and a college classmate's wedding a week later in Huntsville, I'll be on the road to explore following cities from June 5 - 14.
Lexington, KY
Cincinnati, OH
Dayton, OH
Detroit, MI
Ann Arbor, MI
Kalamazoo, MI
Chicago, IL
Indianapolis, IN
Louisville, KY
Nashville, TN
Huntsville, AL
Birmingham, AL
Atlanta, GA
Another wedding and Detroit July trip will have me in the following cities:
Baltimore, MD
York, PA
Harrisburg, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Youngstown, OH
Akron, OH
Cleveland, OH
Toledo, OH
(return trip still to be determined)
So far, here are things I'll be on the look out for in these cities:
- Successful urban public spaces (courthouses, parks, riverfronts)
- Pedestrian friendly urban infill
- Mass transit
- Urban failures (good for examples of what not to do)
- Vibrant urban neighborhood commercial districts
- Urban Nightlife districts
- Convention centers
- Intermodal transportation centers
Since our forum members are from all over, I would like to use this thread gain information on the topics above about areas I should check out. I'll also do a few live updates from these cities while I'm there, in this thread. Also feel free to suggest additional topics worth exploring that are not mentioned above.
How about what the city has done downtown in terms of culture?
I remember that on my first trip to Cincy that I was in awe of the number of museums and conservatories.
^Most definitely! It will be interesting to see if cultural uses are clustered or isolated and what the impact is on their surroudings with each option.
I've visited Pittsburgh a few times recently and would recommend you check out the following:
- The renewal along the northshore around the stadiums.
- East Carson Street on the southside, both the old Southside Flats and the new Southside Works.
- Station Square shopping center.
- The Strip District, including the Heinz History Center and Primanti Brothers restaurant.
- The T light rail system.
- Pittsburgh's BRT.
- Ft. Pitt and Point State Park.
- The downtown theater district.
- The David Lawrence Convention Center.
- The whole Oakland neighborhood, including the Carnegie museums, CMU, and Pitt.
^Thanks. My hotel happens to be along the Northshore about a block or two from the stadiums. Early on, I thought about booking a hotel near the airport and using BRT to get into town, but once I added up the cost/ride time, it was better stay near the heart of the city.
dang, all those cities will be better than ours.
I think we'll fare pretty well against spots like Toledo, Dayton and Youngstown. I'm trying to hit a good mix of cities so that we can see the good, bad and ugly.
I have heard something many years back that Harrisburg PA had changed its property tax structure to tax land heavily and improvements (ie buildings) lightly. The result was a denser city with fewer surface parking lots and less sprawl. It has been in the back of my mind to investigate this for myself, to see if it could be propagated to other cities.
Here is a reference to this from the Harrisburg PA wikipedia entry:
QuoteHarrisburg is also known world wide for its use of land value taxation. Harrisburg has taxed land at a rate six times that on improvements since 1975, and this policy has been credited by its long time mayor, Stephen R. Reed, as well as by the city's former city manager during the 1980s with reducing the number of vacant structures in downtown Harrisburg from about 4,200 in 1982 to less than 500.
I would be interested to see if Harrisburg DOES appear to have fewer vacant lots, surface parking lots, vacant buildings and higher density generally, than would normally be expected from a city of that size. I'll see what I can dig up on that in the interim too.
Doing something like that in JAx would likely require significant changes to state laws, but fortunately, since Jax is the only consolidated government, it is already treated differently in respect to certain laws. For instance, with Crist's Property tax reform, Jax was given an escape clause by the legislature (although it was not enacted by the city, it was nonetheless available).
Jacksonville has an abundance of vacant lots, vacant buildings, surface parking lots in the urban core and that issue needs to be addressed somehow.
^An interesting idea. I wonder if any other cities have tried to copy this plan. In a State full of sprawl I would love to see something that encouraged infill. I want great urban, Suburban and rural areas in my community not just the suburb of Florida.
As I've said Lake, I'll gladly type some stuff up and email to you about Nashville. Besides downtown, check out these areas:
The Gulch on the SW edge of downtown
Midtown along West End Ave, especially Centennial Park
Hillsboro Village around 21st Ave South
Germantown and the Bicentennial Mall area in north downtown
SoBro, where The Pinnacle will be opened by December at 436ft tall and where the new convention center will go, behind the Sommet Center.
Make sure, you have to check out the absolute core, Church Street. This is what Laura Street can learn from.
Also, I recommended checking out Murfreesboro, an exurb of over 100,000 and becoming a very self sufficient city and my hometown. While it may seem like a lot of sprawl, you have to check out downtown and East Main Street.
Some Cleveland suggestions:
* I cannot emphasize this enough - find time to spend around East 4th Street downtown. 5-7 years ago it was nothing but an ugly run down alley looking street, now it's one of the best entertainment and residential areas in the city. There may not be many huge success stories in Cleveland right now, but E. 4th is one of them.
* The most recent transit development there is the Euclid Corridor (BRT). Enough said.
* If you want a good comparison of how not to use your waterfront, drive down the shoreway (RT 2) downtown - there's lots of talk of redevelopment, but that is going to take money the city doesn't have.
* There's a lot of talk of building a new or redeveloping the existing convention center and having a Medical Mart permanently in the convention center. Lots of screaming over location, but it's poised to be a big deal for the city.
* If you're looking for good urban cultural pockets, take a drive through Tremont (near west side - kind of the "artsy" population area), Little Italy and Coventry on the east side are nice areas. There's also the Museum District and University Circle on the east side.
Lake if we're going to stay in this Transit Race, a shot of each Amtrak station, road and track side if possible may help our own designs. Interior shots are good to. We need to see every multi-modal station as well as all of the older stations, as THEY were designed for huge crowds.
Y'all just remember, "our train is coming..."
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 28, 2009, 10:41:41 AM
Lake if we're going to stay in this Transit Race, a shot of each Amtrak station, road and track side if possible may help our own designs. Interior shots are good to. We need to see every multi-modal station as well as all of the older stations, as THEY were designed for huge crowds.
Y'all just remember, "our train is coming..."
OCKLAWAHA
Well, count Nashville out on that then. However, Union Station downtown is incredible.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 28, 2009, 09:14:12 AM
I have heard something many years back that Harrisburg PA had changed its property tax structure to tax land heavily and improvements (ie buildings) lightly. The result was a denser city with fewer surface parking lots and less sprawl. It has been in the back of my mind to investigate this for myself, to see if it could be propagated to other cities.
From the photographs and aerials I've viewed, Harrisburg has a pretty compact and vibrant downtown with very few large parking lots (most are on the edge near the railyards). I'll keep this in mind. It should contrast greatly with Youngstown. There, they have a plan to abandon significant portions of the city to concentrate on repopulating others.
Quote from: reednavy on May 28, 2009, 09:44:45 AM
As I've said Lake, I'll gladly type some stuff up and email to you about Nashville. Besides downtown, check out these areas:
The Gulch on the SW edge of downtown
Midtown along West End Ave, especially Centennial Park
Hillsboro Village around 21st Ave South
Germantown and the Bicentennial Mall area in north downtown
SoBro, where The Pinnacle will be opened by December at 436ft tall and where the new convention center will go, behind the Sommet Center.
Make sure, you have to check out the absolute core, Church Street. This is what Laura Street can learn from.
Also, I recommended checking out Murfreesboro, an exurb of over 100,000 and becoming a very self sufficient city and my hometown. While it may seem like a lot of sprawl, you have to check out downtown and East Main Street.
I'm going to take you up on that email offer. I'll be hatching out the details for this trip this weekend. Are there any neighborhoods in Nashville that are similar to Springfield, yet further ahead commercially?
Quote from: Clem1029 on May 28, 2009, 10:12:12 AM
Some Cleveland suggestions:
* I cannot emphasize this enough - find time to spend around East 4th Street downtown. 5-7 years ago it was nothing but an ugly run down alley looking street, now it's one of the best entertainment and residential areas in the city. There may not be many huge success stories in Cleveland right now, but E. 4th is one of them.
* The most recent transit development there is the Euclid Corridor (BRT). Enough said.
* If you want a good comparison of how not to use your waterfront, drive down the shoreway (RT 2) downtown - there's lots of talk of redevelopment, but that is going to take money the city doesn't have.
* There's a lot of talk of building a new or redeveloping the existing convention center and having a Medical Mart permanently in the convention center. Lots of screaming over location, but it's poised to be a big deal for the city.
* If you're looking for good urban cultural pockets, take a drive through Tremont (near west side - kind of the "artsy" population area), Little Italy and Coventry on the east side are nice areas. There's also the Museum District and University Circle on the east side.
Thanks, my last visit to Cleveland was back in 2006 or 2005. I'm interested to see how things have progressed since then. Without the kids tagging along, I should have more time to hit up many of the urban districts outside of downtown.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 28, 2009, 10:41:41 AM
Lake if we're going to stay in this Transit Race, a shot of each Amtrak station, road and track side if possible may help our own designs. Interior shots are good to. We need to see every multi-modal station as well as all of the older stations, as THEY were designed for huge crowds.
Y'all just remember, "our train is coming..."
OCKLAWAHA
That's a part of the plan. In fact, I'll be using transit to access and transfer between modes in larger city's intermodal centers.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 28, 2009, 11:32:24 AM
I'm going to take you up on that email offer. I'll be hatching out the details for this trip this weekend. Are there any neighborhoods in Nashville that are similar to Springfield, yet further ahead commercially?
Germantown which is just north of downtown has a Springfield like appearance. East Nashville as well, especially near Five Points is as well Ther East End section is really cool.. East Nashville had their renaissance in the 90's and continues today, and the Germantown/Sylvan Park areas are continuing their's, which started right after the new decade started.
I would skip out on York, PA...trust me, here is nothing there worth seeing....maybe take a detour to Gettysburg instead
^I just realized how close these cities are. Is Lancaster or Reading worth driving to?
A Few Suggestions for Future Travelers...
Lulu, FL
Two Egg, FL
Bed Bug, CA
Dead Dog, CA
Dead Horse, AK
Skinny Cat, CA
Dog Town, CA
Cat Town, CA
Monkeys Eyebrow, AZ
Why, AZ
Furnace Creek, CA
Jacksonville, GA #1
Jacksonville, GA #2
Jacksonville, GA #3
Jacksonville, CA
Jacksonville, OR
Buttermilk, KS
Gas, KS
Moonlight, KS
Cut Shin, KY
Jackpot, NV
Bullfrog, NV
Dry Prong, LA
BATH, NY
Busti, NY
Hygiene, CO
Intercourse, PA
French Lick, IN
Virgin, UT
Virginville, WVA
Hooker, OK
Wankers Corner, OR
Climax, MI
Odd, WV
Gaysport, OH
Gay, MI
Needmore, TX
Jackson Hole, WY
Hell, MI
Mud Lick, KY
Oddville, KY
Uncertain, TX
Boring, MD
Last Chance, CO
Tin Cup, CO
Paradox, CO
Spuds, FL
Enigma, GA
Experiment, GA
Normal, IL
Kremlin, OK
Loco, OK
Happyland, OK
Surprise, AZ
Okay, AR
Between, GA
Rough and Ready, CA
Bowlegs, OK
Buffalo, OK
Cleveland, OK
Miami, OK
Panama, OK
Crooks, SD
Cut and Shoot, TX
Well that should get y'all started... Enjoy!
OCKLAWAHA
Buttermilk, KS what a name that is.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2009, 08:31:24 PM
^I just realized how close these cities are. Is Lancaster or Reading worth driving to?
truth...neither....Lancaster has moved most of its downtown out to the highway....and most Reading has all but shut down...if you have to choose, go with Reading
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 31, 2009, 10:50:24 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2009, 08:31:24 PM
^I just realized how close these cities are. Is Lancaster or Reading worth driving to?
truth...neither....Lancaster has moved most of its downtown out to the highway....and most Reading has all but shut down...if you have to choose, go with Reading
Steamtown, the largest steam era railroad collection and now in the care of the NPS, is in Scranton, there's only about 48 Million things there to photograph.
Lancaster and Reading both have a RICH railroad history, look for the terminals or ghosts of the Pennsy, or the Reading RR system. Also in the area LOTS of streetcar museum action. Orbisonia, PA has the last operating 3' gauge railroad in the east, it's not all in operation but it's intact from Mt Union to beyond Robertsdale. VERY photogenic mountain country about 1/2 way across the state slightly left of the south - center.
I really think an intimate look into the deepest recesses of Intercourse, PA. might be a trip!?!?OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on May 31, 2009, 10:45:05 PM
Buttermilk, KS what a name that is.
Pfft, they can't top Happy, TX and Disappointment, KY.
Don't forget to check out Boring, Oregon. I hear that place is just brimming with excitement.
Some of the best times in my life we're in Boring, Oregon! Must have been a family name, I never bothered to check it out, but on the west slope of Mount Hood? Breathtaking fantasy land...
(http://www.springfieldcolorado.com/news/Bull-rainbow400.jpg)
Hooker, OK has some really funny Tee Shirts for sale at the Chamber of Commerce. Hell I even saw a tree there ONCE.
OCKLAWAHA
Just checking out Cincinnati. They have a pretty ambitious project underway, similar to our Shipyards site. Its called the Banks.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Banks_layout.jpg)
They are taking the surface parking lots between their stadiums and turning them into a 24/7 riverfront mixed use community. I plan to visit this site this Saturday.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/The-Banks-Construction.jpg/800px-The-Banks-Construction.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Banks
^Btw, "The Banks" will be the terminal point of the proposed Cincinnati Streetcar system.
http://www.cincystreetcar.com/route.html
They also have a new tallest under construction, Queen City Square.
Yeah, it looks like a lot is going on in urban Cincinnati. Hopefully, I can get a couple of photographs of successful ideas that could be put to use in Jacksonville.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 28, 2009, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 28, 2009, 10:41:41 AM
Lake if we're going to stay in this Transit Race, a shot of each Amtrak station, road and track side if possible may help our own designs. Interior shots are good to. We need to see every multi-modal station as well as all of the older stations, as THEY were designed for huge crowds.
Y'all just remember, "our train is coming..."
OCKLAWAHA
That's a part of the plan. In fact, I'll be using transit to access and transfer between modes in larger city's intermodal centers.
Great plan! It'll be interesting to see how each city stacks up against one another and see what works and what doesn't. You're quite the road warrior Lake.
Alright folks, have fun. Hopefully, my next post will be sometime tomorrow morning with my initial reactions after exploring urban Lexington, KY.
Hopefully you'll do a piece on Midtown Atlanta.
Birmingham should be interesting.
I'm really waiting for Nashville, since I helped out. However, I will caution you, next week is CMA Music Festival 2009, so expect a very crowded downtown between the 11th and 14th.
http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/80.html
thought this was interesting in terms of growing cities to watch... towards the end of the article it names big gainers in population in the next decades... oh and jax is mentioned once.
Those numbers are seriously skewed.
LAKELANDER, NOTE. Amtrak passed new rules on photography, thanks in part to the "Homeland Security Gang." The bottom line is unless you get premission from the STATION MASTER anyone taking photos from the platform will be subject to investigation. So make sure you ASK FIRST, if the answer is no, go to neutral ground to get your photos. The rule aparently does not apply to inside the stations, or the stations themselves, just the platform and train boarding area.
Picking up a copy of the new "TRAINS MAGAZINE" will give you a double page map that shows all sorts of targets in the old Antracite Coal area of lower Pennsylvania. Anyone that could send you to the former Lehigh and New England, or the New York, Ontario and Western facilities would be doing history a big favor. They both died about 1960, and both were HUGE, shocking abandonments. Scranton - Binghampton are the biggies of rail in the historic area. Another that you will cross and offers trips is the "WILD MARY" AKA: Western Maryland Railroad. You can ride it from Cumberland, up through the water gap. BEAUTIFUL, STUNNING scenes of the mountains.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: hanjin1 on May 28, 2009, 09:02:21 AM
dang, all those cities will be better than ours.
I wouldnt say that, I see 12 out of 20 cities on the list with NO NFL team, not everyone is better than Jax on the list.
Lake, dude do you really have enough time? It would seen one would need more time to get a fair critic of all these places. A lot of hidden gems get overlooked when visiting as a tourist, know what I mean?
nichtooch Interesting article. If Jax is right at 2mil in 15 years Governor Gridlock may have us willing to pay any price for mass transit.
Lake, just noted your journey into Cincinnati...
Wow, man
DON'T MISS C-U-T, Cincinnati Union Terminal, this is a world renown art deco palace. Shapped like a giant RADIO of the 1930's it is perhaps the most incredible design of a train station in the country, at least of that era. It's a MUST SEE! Trust me my urban planning friend, you'll be amazed!
OCKLAWAHA
I enjoyed the couple of hours I spent in downtown Lexington this morning. Its great to see what has come online in the last five years (my last photo visit). Common observations that apply to Jax.
1. Lexington's convention center is about the same size as the Prime Osborn. However, it has a Hyatt directly attached to it. It also has skywalks that connect it to another hotel and an urban mall across the street. There's also a nice urban park with fountains and shade in the middle of everything.
2. That urban mall is a block wide collection of victorian era commercial buildings connected with an enclosed interior block common area.
3. Lots of people on the street at a RAM-like farmer's market.
4. Their courthouse complex has a nice linear greenspace in front of it. It has seating areas and a couple of water features. The concept would be a nice thing to do with the front of our courthouse project.
5. It always helps to have a major university near downtown. There's lots of new residential urban infill.
Quote from: reednavy on June 05, 2009, 01:29:07 PM
Hopefully you'll do a piece on Midtown Atlanta.
Birmingham should be interesting.
I'm really waiting for Nashville, since I helped out. However, I will caution you, next week is CMA Music Festival 2009, so expect a very crowded downtown between the 11th and 14th.
Good. I like crowds.
Quote from: Coolyfett on June 05, 2009, 11:43:12 PM
Lake, dude do you really have enough time? It would seen one would need more time to get a fair critic of all these places. A lot of hidden gems get overlooked when visiting as a tourist, know what I mean?[/color]
Outside of Nashville and Huntsville, I've already been to the rest of the cities on the first road trip list multiple times. However, I'm not really trying to be a fair critic. All I try to do with the Elements of Urbanism series is expose Jacksonville residents and officials to what peer city urban environments look like. Through the series, the hope is that you'll find a load of good and bad examples from places that may have already dealt with many issues we face in Jacksonville today.
In Lexington, the convention center, a network of bike lanes in the urban core, pocket park planning and the courthouse square concepts really stand out.
Alright, on to Cincinnati.
I've said it many times to people here before, Nashville is the best city we need to look at for urbanism. As of the last 10 years, everythign has been going good and the past 3 mayors, current included, have really focused attention to land at least one large project for downtown. Bredesen, current governor, got the Sommet Center, LP Field and the Titans. Purcell got downtown on the move by getting old laws either thrown out or adjusted to make a downtown a true destination with the housing and commercial space boom. Now, Dean is working to get the new covention center, with which the land purchasing has been voted yes on the 3rd reading and will begin soon.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 05, 2009, 11:55:43 PM
Lake, just noted your journey into Cincinnati...
Wow, man
DON'T MISS C-U-T, Cincinnati Union Terminal, this is a world renown art deco palace. Shapped like a giant RADIO of the 1930's it is perhaps the most incredible design of a train station in the country, at least of that era. It's a MUST SEE! Trust me my urban planning friend, you'll be amazed!
OCKLAWAHA
I have seen this station. It is worth a visit. It is some distance from DT as I recall (but not TOO far). It has been converted into a collection of museums all under one roof.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 05, 2009, 11:42:27 PM
LAKELANDER, NOTE. Amtrak passed new rules on photography, thanks in part to the "Homeland Security Gang." The bottom line is unless you get premission from the STATION MASTER anyone taking photos from the platform will be subject to investigation. So make sure you ASK FIRST, if the answer is no, go to neutral ground to get your photos. The rule aparently does not apply to inside the stations, or the stations themselves, just the platform and train boarding area.
maybe I should have read this before taking pics at Sante Fe terminal in San Diego today :-)
Quote from: thelakelander on June 06, 2009, 10:55:45 AM
Outside of Nashville and Huntsville, I've already been to the rest of the cities on the first road trip list multiple times. However, I'm not really trying to be a fair critic. All I try to do with the Elements of Urbanism series is expose Jacksonville residents and officials to what peer city urban environments look like. Through the series, the hope is that you'll find a load of good and bad examples from places that may have already dealt with many issues we face in Jacksonville today.
I gotcha.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 06, 2009, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 05, 2009, 11:55:43 PM
Lake, just noted your journey into Cincinnati...
Wow, man
DON'T MISS C-U-T, Cincinnati Union Terminal, this is a world renown art deco palace. Shapped like a giant RADIO of the 1930's it is perhaps the most incredible design of a train station in the country, at least of that era. It's a MUST SEE! Trust me my urban planning friend, you'll be amazed!
OCKLAWAHA
I have seen this station. It is worth a visit. It is some distance from DT as I recall (but not TOO far). It has been converted into a collection of museums all under one roof.
I've been there before but I did stop by yesterday to take a few pics. Impressive place indeed.
Overall, as always, I was impressed with Cincinnati's density and large collection of vibrant neighborhoods. I spent most of yesterday in Cincy and had to eliminate my planned stop in Toledo to get to Detroit.
Lots of people downtown and the Fountain Square (their version of Hemming Plaza) remake is a remarkable success. What I remember was once a dominant concrete space with little shade, now includes a shaded area lined with a collection of restaurants (Rock Bottom Brewery, Potbelly's and Chipotle being three of them). The convention center, which is now called Duke Energy Center, has also been expanded. Like Lexington's, it is directly adjacent to at least two large highrise hotels.
I was also impressed with the continued turn around of Over-The-Rhine. There's major streetscaping work being done and a significant number of old brick buildings being converted into lofts and condos.
Perhaps instead of Paris, our local leaders should be spending part of the money visiting these US cities like Charlotte, Cincinnati and Nashville. What is it that keeps these cities motivated and vibrant despite the recession? How can they all be building up their urban core, when we continue to tear our's down? How do they get local investors to part with their money? Why are they building mass transit instead of roads?
The rest of the money could be used as incentives to get something done around here. Common sense tells me this would be money better spent.
Aside from my rant, I love your updates Lake and can't wait for the articles and pictures. I'm kind of jealous. ;)
Quote from: brainstormer on June 07, 2009, 02:35:38 PM
What is it that keeps these cities motivated and vibrant despite the recession?
Imo, its a mix of the urban pioneer/investor/advocate and city leaders responding to what peer cities have been successful at establishing. Regarding Cincinnati, may of the Over-The-Rhine projects tend to be small in nature (ex. an individual renovates a small building and the neighbor does the same to a nearby property). The city's major investments tend to be public projects that complement and promote additional infill investment nearby. It also appears that some sort of overall master plan or vision is in place. I say this because most projects in several of these cities aren't isolated. They tend to be designed with a larger goal in mind by properly integrating with surrounding properties.
QuoteHow can they all be building up their urban core, when we continue to tear our's down? How do they get local investors to part with their money?
One significant difference is that old buildings aren't torn down because they are vacant. The number of vacant, yet still standing properties, creates more opportunity for small investors to come in.
QuoteWhy are they building mass transit instead of roads?
There are still road improvements being done but many places are adding transit for the economic development benefits. This is the main reason for Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system.
QuoteAside from my rant, I love your updates Lake and can't wait for the articles and pictures. I'm kind of jealous. ;)
Thanks. So far I have taken images of downtown Lexington, Cincinnati and Dayton. Before I leave Detroit, I'll probably take images of their proposed streetcar corridor and riverfront park system since those are two major issues facing Jacksonville.
I already have the article text for a few cities (Nashville "thanks to Reednavy", Lexington and Cincinnati), so its possible the articles from this trip could begin to run this week.
This time PLEASE post some better pictures of Dayton, OH.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g-J5F47Klrs/Ri-9e2UgsRI/AAAAAAAAALY/pHslyvbBisc/s400/Dayton_Schuster_2.jpg)
(http://www.daytonlofts.com/images/fountain-night.jpg)
(http://www.lifeindayton.com/.a/6a00e551dc0372883301156ebb9fc2970c-800wi)
(http://culture.ohio.gov/_OLDSITE/featureimages/dayton%20art%20institute%2004.jpg)
(http://www.towneprop.com/DocumentManager/courthouse%20plaza.jpg)
(http://3547.voxcdn.com/photos/9/58/175901_l.jpg)
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 07, 2009, 01:45:01 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 05, 2009, 11:42:27 PM
LAKELANDER, NOTE. Amtrak passed new rules on photography, thanks in part to the "Homeland Security Gang." The bottom line is unless you get premission from the STATION MASTER anyone taking photos from the platform will be subject to investigation. So make sure you ASK FIRST, if the answer is no, go to neutral ground to get your photos. The rule aparently does not apply to inside the stations, or the stations themselves, just the platform and train boarding area.
maybe I should have read this before taking pics at Sante Fe terminal in San Diego today :-)
Glad you got away with it. If you have a ticket the rules don't apply to you, but unticketed folks REALLY are at risk for a stupid, time wasting police interview under the new rules. Don't sweat it, I'm sure this will go to court soon and someone will get their socks sued off. The new rule clearly violates freedom of speach, expression, and movement, not to mention freedom of the press and a host of other freedoms. Keeping us safe is one thing, going crazy doing it is a whole other experience! OCKLAWAHA
(http://www.greaterdaytonrta.org/images/8-08-trolley/trol_bnr.jpg)
Lakelander and others who may wander this season. NOTE that Dayton, Ohio is in the 120Th year of electric transit. We need a ride, some photos and some comment on the effect of this and the downtown.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: DaytonOhio on June 07, 2009, 05:39:57 PM
This time PLEASE post some better pictures of Dayton, OH.
They are definately better. My last visit to Dayton was in the middle of Winter, so the place looked pretty desolate. However, yesterday the streets were full of people and I spent a little more time in the area.
Ock, I did not see the trolley buses in use yesterday. Regular buses were serving the downtown area. I don't know if it has something to do with it but there's a major street reconstruction project on Main Street.
Any updates?
I'm in Chicago and I'm about to spend the rest of the day exploring urban neighborhoods outside of the Loop. I did not take any images in Detroit. I decided to spend the time with family and incorporate picture taking on a return trip next month. On the way to Chicago the other day, I did stop in Ann Arbor and Kalamazoo. Both are college towns with nice vibrant downtowns.
Ann Arbor - State Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559873640_zhm9D-M.jpg)
Kalamazoo - Main Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559884947_PyFGJ-M.jpg)
Dayton - Riverfront
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559893523_hLtNj-M.jpg)
However, I love Cincinnati's Over-The-Rhine district. Its about the same distance from DT Cincinnati as Springfield is to DT Jax but better connected.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559902050_JeeQX-M.jpg)
Ock, here is that train terminal. I'll try to improve the pics when I get back to town.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559901282_QwJsz-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559901309_ecRsu-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/559901412_4Lcet-M.jpg)
A few pics taken around urban Chicago on Wednesday.
Taking the train into town
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560656754_RnHTL-M.jpg)
A bus shelter with advertising
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560657234_qe5XU-M.jpg)
Some chick falling off her bike near Navy Pier
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560652582_JkBv8-M.jpg)
Chinatown
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560652370_yKZ32-M.jpg)
Metra yard
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560652161_aUDk4-M.jpg)
Lakeview
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560652180_kYJ7U-M.jpg)
Wrigleyville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560652125_hx7C9-M.jpg)
River North
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/560666892_mrkEq-M.jpg)
^ nice pics
I was close to Chinatown today. Maybe that was you I saw taking pictures....
Oh that's rich on the woman falling off her bike. I love it.
yeah, you caught her in mid-fall. Amazing.
A sneak peek at a few more cities.
Louisville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561503423_QgpQe-M.jpg)
Indianapolis
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561501839_5NmWW-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561502257_sv3kj-M.jpg)
Nashville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561498710_Z4QQM-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561498977_jCcqP-M.jpg)
The pic with the water- the surrounding area sure does look well kept and clean.
It is. Canal Walk is a pretty nice urban oasis that Indianapolis has put together. It would be pretty cool if Jacksonville could bring Hogans Creek up to a similar level.
That's actually what came to my mind when I saw that pic. Hogans Creek has been neglected for some time now.
Hopefully there are plenty of daytime shots of my Nashville to come.
Whoever had the "brilliant" idea of placing the JEA heap of crap between Main and Laura Streets really ruined any possibility of connecting Springfield to the Urban Core or turning the creek and park area into a destination area or something more beautiful like the Indianapolis pic. With FCCJ right there, the possibilities of turning this into a walkable area for students and residents is kind of at zero. It is so hard to create vibrant streets that connect to other vibrant streets when we fail to look beyond yesterday! Jacksonville also needs to get rid of it's obsession with fences! Never do you see pictures of other cities where everything has a fence around it! My word.
Nice pictures Lake, thanks for the updates.
Quote from: reednavy on June 12, 2009, 09:05:26 AM
Hopefully there are plenty of daytime shots of my Nashville to come.
I got into town last night but I'll be in the area's streets all day long. I'm getting ready to stop by the Pancake Pantry in Hillsboro Village for breakfast.
Quote from: fsujax on June 12, 2009, 09:48:43 AM
Nice pictures Lake, thanks for the updates.
No problem. I'm thinking about riding the Music City Star for at least a stop or two but the schedule is pretty limited.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 12, 2009, 09:51:40 AM
No problem. I'm thinking about riding the Music City Star for at least a stop or two but the schedule is pretty limited.
This is correct, it is mainly for rush hour times and large events. Such large events as the Titans games and 4th of July fireworks are huge, with the latter actually leaving people because it was so crowded. It is still in start up so they probably want to keep it limited. However, why they chose the 5th largest county in #s is beyond me, other than a private railway owning the tracks.
Oh you're in for a treat the the Pancake Pantry, even with the CMA crowds, it is so worth the wait. It'll be good to get downtown pics when the largest music event in the city is going on, shows what is possible here on our riverfront.
I'm about to have a late breakfast in downtown Huntsville, AL. I was impressed with Nashville. It definitely has a lot in common with Jax. Here are a few images from yesterday.
skyline shot from the Shelby Street bridge. Since 2003, this bridge is now for pedestrian use only.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562467362_zMTkz-M.jpg)
Broadway - This image was taken from the front of the existing convention center. The amount of hotels, bars and restaurants nearby makes the Prime Osborn look like a horrible facility.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562467507_PDZdp-M.jpg)
Music City Star - The cheapest commuter rail system ever built. $41 million for 32 miles.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562467276_WJczM-M.jpg)
Courthouse Square - We could use a public space like this in the front of our new courthouse.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562467985_E783t-M.jpg)
DT sidewalk - There were a ton of people in town for the CMA. I enjoyed the large free samples of ice cream and soda being given out on the street. They saved me a few bucks.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562468009_SNLC4-M.jpg)
Aww...I love Nashville. I've been there three times and every time had a blast! It is a really cool city and has really overcome the "country" stereotype it once had. Their symphony hall downtown is amazing! And all of there new buildings include really neat landscaping and seem to fit in well with the surrounding area. Even last fall the building boom was still alive and well. The city has done a great job of clustering it's entertainment and restaurants into one walkable area. Did you get to go over by Vanderbilt? The Parthenon and surrounding parks and retail areas are again walkable and very nice. I can't wait for your full article. ;D
I explored several Nashville hoods. Here are a few images from the Vandy area:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562687431_JYbgT-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562687475_borkM-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562687642_tiiMn-M.jpg)
I also spent sometime in DT Huntsville earlier today. Its a pretty sleeply yet well maintained place. Here are a few images:
Huntsville Hospital people mover
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562669433_mVsq9-M.jpg)
Huntsville Depot Railroad Museum
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562677142_osxdu-M.jpg)
Huntsville (Von Braun Center) Convention Center with parking below the exhibition hall and an attached Embassy Suites hotel
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562678335_BCEjA-M.jpg)
Btw, despite being smaller than Lakeland, Huntsville's convention center is larger than the Prime Osborn.
A fight for bread crumbs
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562672127_vq7CS-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/562670698_UdXjv-M.jpg)
My second road trip starts tomorrow. The cities on the list with focal point issues I'll be on the lookout for include:
Baltimore (DT, Inner Harbor connectivity, mass transit mix)
Harrisburg (property tax program to encourage urban infill instead of vacant lots)
Pittsburgh (adaptive reuse, light rail, BRT, self sustaining urban neighborhoods)
Youngstown (urban revitalization through retraction and focusing on the downtown core)
Akron (downtown)
Cleveland (transit oriented development along rail lines from burbs into town, BRT, urban infill)
Atlanta (urban infill in Buckhead, Midtown, Dowtown and a few urban neighborhoods)
Let me know if there is something or areas of these places, not mentioned that you believe are worth checking out. Also, if anyone has dining suggestions (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Harrisburg), let me know.
Harrisburg has a few good brew pubs....my parents like the Appalachian Brewing Company
www.abcbrew.com
While not fine dining by any means, any trip to Pittsburgh has to include a visit to Primanti Brothers in the Strip District.
http://www.primantibros.com/ (http://www.primantibros.com/)
You might check out convention centers in some of those cities. If I remember correctly, the last time I was in Baltimore, they were building a brand new one right downtown. I could be wrong about that though. I also was impressed by the infill around the new stadium in Baltimore. How does it interact with the rest of the city? How might we work to connect our stadium in Jacksonville with improvements (thinking Shipyards and met park) between the inner core and this area?
Also get pictures of retail signage in the DT areas. Something I still think Jacksonville is terrible at.
Good points brainstormer. I'll keep the convention centers, how they integrate with their surroundings, and retail signage in mind.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 08, 2009, 08:59:17 AM
Harrisburg has a few good brew pubs....my parents like the Appalachian Brewing Company
www.abcbrew.com
According to their site, they are one of the largest microbreweries in the country. Looks like a pretty good spot for lunch on Sunday.
Quote from: Traveller on July 08, 2009, 09:43:26 AM
While not fine dining by any means, any trip to Pittsburgh has to include a visit to Primanti Brothers in the Strip District.
http://www.primantibros.com/ (http://www.primantibros.com/)
Thanks, I can do without fine dining. Affordable meals help stretch the dollar out. I visited Pittsburgh a few years ago and had a Primanti Burger in the Strip District. Any other popular Pittsburgh spots for local cuisine?
I walked around the Inner Harbor last night. Here are a few initial things I noticed.
1. Police & Lighting
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/587121159_WNkZ7-M.jpg)
This area of downtown is well lit and has a strong presence of police on foot patrols and bikes. However, they don't detract from the scene. Their presence gives off a sense of safety.
2. Wide Streets
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/587120885_Q3M4V-M.jpg)
Locally, we say that State and Union cut downtown off from Springfield. In DT Baltimore, just about every street around here is a five to six lane one way with heavy traffic and pedestrians still cross them. The difference is there is a reason to cross.
3. Old and New
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/587121008_Ag3Jo-M.jpg)
From what I've seen so far, there is a decent mix of old and new construction. It really makes the place feel unique.
Alright time to leave the hotel room.....
Baltimore has an ESPN Zone?! Damn it!
Hey....we have a Gold's Gym downtown. Just missing everything else that is in the picture above.
Quote from: fsujax on July 10, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
Hey....we have a Gold's Gym downtown. Just missing everything else that is in the picture above.
Yea, but theirs is probably better
Yeah probably! Ours used to be cool until it relocated to the Landing. Everytime I go to the gym, I get so dissmayed at how dead the Landing looks and all the empty storefronts.
Baltimore already has a large and contemporary convention center, so they must be expanding it if anything. As far as crossing the wide streets there are three major catwalks from the Inner Harbor to it's adjoining areas.
Baltimore has a really great DT.
The building in Lake's third Baltimore picture is a former power plant with a checkered history prior to its being converted to the successful mixed-use entertainment structure it is now. It failed as a bizarre indoor theme park--I was there at its opening when I was 7--and sat vacant for some years afterward. Which seems odd in hindsight, given that at least the Inner Harbor area of downtown Baltimore has been pretty successful since the early 80s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Power_Plant
Stick with cities comparable in population - the Rochesters, the Nashvilles, Columbuses...The bigger cities can make more interesting urban environments because they have the dough.
I love Baltimore. People use the water taxis to go to and from work. Fell's Point is an awesome section, trendy, and yet (believe it or not) it still has a working class vibe about it. In fact the place is large on authentic, useable, dense with a wide assortment of people who share a common space.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on July 10, 2009, 02:17:26 PM
The building in Lake's third Baltimore picture is a former power plant with a checkered history prior to its being converted to the successful mixed-use entertainment structure it is now. It failed as a bizarre indoor theme park--I was there at its opening when I was 7--and sat vacant for some years afterward. Which seems odd in hindsight, given that at least the Inner Harbor area of downtown Baltimore has been pretty successful since the early 80s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Power_Plant
aren't you forgetting the amazing years when the buildiing was P.T. Flaggs nightclub...I spent several Sunday evenings there on Teen Nights!
Quote from: reednavy on July 10, 2009, 01:36:52 PM
Baltimore has an ESPN Zone?! Damn it!
yes the second one (after NYC) in the chain
Quote from: rjp2008 on July 10, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
Stick with cities comparable in population - the Rochesters, the Nashvilles, Columbuses...The bigger cities can make more interesting urban environments because they have the dough.
Baltimore is very comparable...in fact, the City pop. has come down to around 600,000....at one time it was well over 1 million
Quote from: rjp2008 on July 10, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
Stick with cities comparable in population - the Rochesters, the Nashvilles, Columbuses...The bigger cities can make more interesting urban environments because they have the dough.
What about places like St. Augustine, Key West, Charleston, Savannah, Chattanooga and Ann Arbor? From my experiences, the size of the place really does not matter. The compact clustering of complementing development and density seem to play a far more important role than how much dough a specific community has.
Madison?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 31, 2009, 09:54:34 PM
A Few Suggestions for Future Travelers...
Lulu, FL
Two Egg, FL
Bed Bug, CA
Dead Dog, CA
Dead Horse, AK
Skinny Cat, CA
Dog Town, CA
Cat Town, CA
Monkeys Eyebrow, AZ
Why, AZ
Furnace Creek, CA
Jacksonville, GA #1
Jacksonville, GA #2
Jacksonville, GA #3
Jacksonville, CA
Jacksonville, OR
Buttermilk, KS
Gas, KS
Moonlight, KS
Cut Shin, KY
Jackpot, NV
Bullfrog, NV
Dry Prong, LA
BATH, NY
Busti, NY
Hygiene, CO
Intercourse, PA
French Lick, IN
Virgin, UT
Virginville, WVA
Hooker, OK
Wankers Corner, OR
Climax, MI
Odd, WV
Gaysport, OH
Gay, MI
Needmore, TX
Jackson Hole, WY
Hell, MI
Mud Lick, KY
Oddville, KY
Uncertain, TX
Boring, MD
Last Chance, CO
Tin Cup, CO
Paradox, CO
Spuds, FL
Enigma, GA
Experiment, GA
Normal, IL
Kremlin, OK
Loco, OK
Happyland, OK
Surprise, AZ
Okay, AR
Between, GA
Rough and Ready, CA
Bowlegs, OK
Buffalo, OK
Cleveland, OK
Miami, OK
Panama, OK
Crooks, SD
Cut and Shoot, TX
Well that should get y'all started... Enjoy!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock-
you left off:
Blue Ball, PA
Intercourse, PA
Climax, MN
Spunky Puddle, OH
Beaver City, UT or NE
Dip Hole, NJ
Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
Toad Suck, AR
Wankers Corner, OR
Titty Ho, England
Elephant Butte, NM
Gaylord, MI
Worry, NC
Hell, MI
Ordinary, VA
Please let us know what you find in these wonderful cities.
Lake,
Don't forget to visit "Hamsterdam" while you're in Balmer. :)
Where in Balmer is Hamsterdam? I don't know if I stumbled across it but I hit number of neighborhoods over the last two days. Baltimore has a lot of good things going for it. However, it has its fair share of obstacles to overcome. The Inner Harbor and the neighborhoods ringing it are nice, but the further you get from water, the more distressed the city becomes. Nevertheless, just about every district I visited had significant historic building stock. Properties are either in good use or abandoned, boarded up and waiting for a savior. Here are a few more pics in various areas of the city.
In the Inner Harbor
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588363787_2Hzpc-M.jpg)
In Fells Point neighborhood looking towards the Inner Harbor
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588364134_2raZm-M.jpg)
Wayfaring signage in Mount Vernon, just north of downtown
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588364074_9Geuz-M.jpg)
Getting away from the Inner Harbor along Lexington Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588364283_TuGNe-M.jpg)
Convention center light rail stop
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588363953_BJ3JY-M.jpg)
light rail train heading north along Howard Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588364010_eDvUf-M.jpg)
The Inner Harbor earlier today
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588363896_xeCFm-M.jpg)
A few miles north of downtown along North Avenue. A significant portion of the rowhouse housing stock looks this way in areas north and west of downtown.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/588364202_Tttcx-M.jpg)
Tomorrow, I plan to take an early morning guided Baltimore walking tour and make a quick stop in Harrisburg before getting in to Pittsburgh.
Yep, away from downtown, Baltimore continues to slide down and losing large amounts of it's population. Even with urban renewal and the removal and many, many housing projects, the city has a long way to go and is still very dangerous.
True. Baltimore had 949,708 residents in 1950. In 2007, it was estimated to have 637,755. That's a loss of 312,253 residents over the last over 57 years or 5,478 people a year. However, it does appear that things are finally stabilizing. The city has only lost 13,699 residents since 2000.