Mayor John Peyton: Investing in Jacksonville's Future
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/542526515_dLQ2p-M.jpg)
Mayor John Peyton's complete presentation "Investing in Jacksonville's Future" outlines his focus for downtown in his final two years in office.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-may-mayor-john-peyton-investing-in-jacksonvilles-future
The downtown core, with the exception of Shipyards site, mired in debt/legal issues, and Metropolitan Park, mired in City budget issues, is entirely neglected in this plan. Not much of a surprise. The shift of downtown west to Brooklyn/LaVilla and to the southbank, and away from all of the social service facilities the leadership isn't effective enough to touch, continues.
Sounds good, looks good, but what's underneath the perfume and good looks? I don't understand exactly what Peyton (and possibly His company along with him) are trying to do. To me this is vision, but blurred vision if you will with no pure or well thought out focus or goals; everything he is planning here appears to be "hodge podge" to say the least, maybe a futile and "last ditch effort" to cure, treat, and smooth over his wrinkled legacy.
Heights Unknown
QuotePeyton's downtown vision has considerable potential
Ron Littlepage Editorial
Now is the time to dream and to plan how to implement those dreams.
The sour economy has cut into the city's revenues, making it difficult to spend on new projects.
But the economy won't stay down forever. First steps can be taken now to improve our quality of life and a consensus can be developed about which direction to go when the economy does rebound.
Mayor John Peyton said this week that he's going to concentrate on that in the final two years of his administration and his focus will be on downtown and the riverfront, on both sides of the river.
The ideas he is considering are exciting.
Beginning on the Northbank, Metropolitan Park has been showing its age for a long time and in many ways it was poorly designed.
Adjacent to it, a fence cuts Kids Kampus off from the river and more open space is needed for children to run and play, and for families to picnic and enjoy the St. Johns.
The entire area needs to be redesigned.
Moving west, the Shipyards property is an opportunity for more public space just waiting to be fulfilled.
Also, the site of the current county courthouse will become available when the new courthouse is completed, as will the old city hall site.
Perhaps a convention center could go there and tie in with the Hyatt Regency, but most definitely part of the property should be set aside for public space along the riverfront.
The popularity of the Northbank Riverwalk proves the worth of such projects and the new Riverside Arts Market under the Fuller Warren Bridge adds an exclamation point to that.
Extending the Northbank Riverwalk to Memorial Park will take time but is paramount to finishing a dazzling downtown park.
On the Southbank, work could begin on the public space along the riverfront on the JEA property that used to house the Southside Generating Station.
Moving west once again, plans can be made to redo the Southbank Riverwalk, which has fallen into disrepair.
The area around Friendship Fountain also needs to be reworked to move away from its concrete jungle effect.
The Museum of Science and History could be redesigned so it takes better advantage of its riverfront location.
The Southbank Riverwalk could be extended under the Acosta Bridge to connect with the riverwalks already existing on the other side, creating a linear park that stretches into San Marco.
Big dreams? Sure.
But some of the work could begin now with money that had been set aside for public improvements in Brooklyn, where proposed development is off the table for now because of the bad real estate market.
The improvements could start at Metropolitan Park or Friendship Fountain.
In the meantime, Peyton plans to lead an effort to build a consensus on what should be done to fulfill downtown's tremendous potential.
Great cities have great downtowns. If Peyton sets in motion solid plans to move downtown forward, that will be his best legacy.
http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-05-22/story/peytons_downtown_vision_has_considerable_potentia
As nice as the presentation may be, this represents a fraction of what "downtown" has lacked. These amenities enhance, no doubt, but the downtown vision somehow did not make it to the presentation.
There is no mention about the residents who would take advantage of these assets. Where is the focus on increasing downtown's population and sustaining it with services and amenities? Where is the commitment to bring additional jobs back to downtown? Where is the commitment to bring the most basic services downtown?
This barely elevates the value of the land if only a handful of people use it. People will then say this is yet another waste and shy away from anything concerning downtown because of yet another myopic attempt by City Hall.
I get it. They don't get it. At all.
^From what I heard, the vision will be shaped by the community during a two year visioning process. To me, it sounded like everything would be on the table. You want a convention center, push it. You want a streetcar or skyway extension, push it. You want more green space on the river, push it. Museums on the river, push it. That's how things sounded to me in the press conference.
Very well said Lake, the public needs to get out and push for the things we want and need for Downtown! Make your voices heard. The Mayor's office as well as City Council members need to hear our voices.
Have tentative dates and locations been announced for the visioning process? I am interested in attending.
First, I would take no more than month to conduct Lessons Learned workshops that demonstrate the poor decisions (Main Street pocket park) and what the alternative could have been with greater city foresight and SME (Metro Jacksonville) input.
I complain enough on here. Now it's time I contribute.
Is there a listserv or mailing list I can join?
At this point, no meeting dates have been announced. However, Metro Jacksonville will keep everyone informed as more information is released.
Quote from: zoo on May 22, 2009, 05:54:26 AM
The downtown core, with the exception of Shipyards site, mired in debt/legal issues, and Metropolitan Park, mired in City budget issues, is entirely neglected in this plan. Not much of a surprise. The shift of downtown west to Brooklyn/LaVilla and to the southbank, and away from all of the social service facilities the leadership isn't effective enough to touch, continues.
Perhaps that's because those areas have already been or are currently being studied...for example, the Laura Street streetscaping project...or the simple hanging flower baskets that have been hung around the Florida Theater are over the last 2 months.
If people don't want to see a plan "just sit on the shelf", then maybe it needs to be taken in smaller chunks...as long asits still compatible with a larger vision....and we already have those...thy are called the Downtown Master Plan and Urban Core Vision.
Does the City have a Chief/Public Information Officer?
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 07:55:50 AM
Does the City have a Chief/Public Information Officer?
yes...Misty Skipper is the Public Information Officer....she also has deputies that cover various departments.
Woo hoo, ANOTHER 2-year visioning process!! How about we scrap that, and revisit all of the visioning and master planning that has already been done and not implemented!?!?
I like the suggestion of having a month of review of existing visioning, a month of updated feedback on existing plans, and a month of failure/success assessment of initiatives that have been completed. So 90-days to re-focus a plan, and then add another 90-days to estimate. 6 months!
This is where strong leadership, effective project management and streamlined bureaucracy is needed -- to define the project scope such that no more time/dollars are wasted on a reset, and planning for implementation (with non-existent monies) can be achieved!
I can appreciate Lake and fsujax's view that people need to speak out, but that presumes they will be listened to.
There is a Downtown Master Plan from 2000, the task force reports from 2005-2007, and the Zyscovich planning from 2008 for Urban Core 1. I'm sure there are more planning docs from the surrounding areas and agencies that are current enough to aggregate info from. In all of them, there are voices, but there seems to be no listening -- not just from the Mayor's office, but from the Council, as well.
A new 2-year planning process does not a legacy repair, or an effective Council make.
zoo, I am with you.
I have lost confidence in these ideas with little to show for it. Are there no project managers out there with integrity to say no to an out-of-scope task, for fear of retribution or job loss?
If we are to engage City Council at Mayor Peyton's suggestion, I want to know who the responsible parties will be, what channels we will have to continue the dialogue and how action items will be assessed and prioritized.
The Riverwalk extensions represent the best idea that Mayor Peyton has had in his entire term of office.
Unfortunately, I share the attitude of other posters above. I have so little faith in Peyton that I find a hard time believing that anything will ever get done. Certainly nothing is going to get accomplished while he is still in office if this is a two year visioning process.
It will get finished when Peyton Jr. (Daniel Davis) is elected.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 07:42:36 AM
^From what I heard, the vision will be shaped by the community during a two year visioning process. To me, it sounded like everything would be on the table. You want a convention center, push it. You want a streetcar or skyway extension, push it. You want more green space on the river, push it. Museums on the river, push it. That's how things sounded to me in the press conference.
It may have sounded that way at the press conference, but this presentation or plan if you will does not, in my opinion expound on much of what was said at the press conference (from the best that I can decipher and from what you have said Lakelander regarding the Mayor's plans/vision for downtown).
So...what is he (Peyton) really trying to do regarding downtown? What are the goals and/or visions? JaxNole stated it best in his first post of this thread which Peyton should have outlined in his presentation, but his presentation, in and of itself which should have clearly outlined the focus, vision and goals for a successful downtown for the public, was poor and lacking.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 08:18:38 AM
zoo, I am with you.
I have lost confidence in these ideas with little to show for it. Are there no project managers out there with integrity to say no to an out-of-scope task, for fear of retribution or job loss?
If we are to engage City Council at Mayor Peyton's suggestion, I want to know who the responsible parties will be, what channels we will have to continue the dialogue and how action items will be assessed and prioritized.
And...what really bothers me "zoo" and JaxNole, is that our leaders in City government, including the Mayor, are getting paid to provide the public with what works, what will be successful, and to know what the public needs; sometimes the public will not "come out" so to speak and let city leaders and other authorities know what's on their minds or what they want, and, most times the public really don't know or have no idea what they want; they count on City leaders to make those decisions and provide them with viable options and alternatives, and if the public doesn't like them or disagree with those recommendations, believe me, they'll let the City leaders know.
Heights Unknown
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it? Do we really want the 4th floor coming up with solutions on their own instead of engaging the urban community?
We can dig up old plans, but they don't specifically address the courthouse, shipyards and JEA sites. Looking back, the 2000 Downtown Master Plan is conceptual at best but its no where near a being a real vision plan. We can go with Zyscovich's visioning process, but its not even complete and it does not even address the downtown core. We can go back to the old plans that eliminated LaVilla, but who wants to implement more of that nonsense. We can go back to the plan for a pedestrian mall around Hemming, but JCPenney, May-Cohens, Woolworths and Ivey's are no longer there to anchor it. We demolish 11 East and countless other buildings to make room for Jack Diamond's downtown mall (DC style, not shops) but does that really get us anywhere? We could also go back to Peyton's plan to take out Friendship Fountain, the Landing and to install hot dog charts on the Main Street Bridge. However, if we really want progress, its best to keep that bad idea six feet under.
Personally, coming from Peyton, I'll take this approach with him. Because the last plan "The Big Idea" was a disaster and the last pocket park was a waste of financial resources. I would hate to see something like those ideas forced on these downtown sites because we simply want to see action, hell or high water.
It may be me, but I had already come to the conclusion that Peyton's true legacy project would be either the courthouse or Trail Ridge Landfill. Whether its the Shipyards, a new convention center or figuring out what to do with Friendship Fountain, there is a need to develop true strategies and funding solutions for these sites. Now if it should take two years completely another story.
http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9/10363234001?isVid=1&publisherID=1155951816&videoId=23960005001&playerID=10363234001&domain=embed
One thing that should and could take place now, is negotiations for the land for the Riverwalk extentions. I can't imagine anything that comes out of the visioning process being at odds with an extention of the Riiverwalk(s). Plus it takes YEARS to get all the property owners to agree, or at least it did with the last extention.
That would at least being that part to reality a lot sooner, once money is available to build it.
We do need to look for opportunities to do things in tandem because the long it takes to see concrete results the more difficult it will be to maintain 'buy-in' from the city council and the citizenry at large.
^That was a point mentioned by Peyton yesterday. He felt that even though funding is a concern, various steps can occur simultaneously and the implementation of certain projects can happen incrementally, as funding solutions become available. RAM, the Tillie Fowler Monument, St. Johns Park and Fidelity Park were mentioned as an example of riverfront enhancement projects happening incrementally. The first phase of a revitalized Kids Kampus/Metropolitan Park will be the next example.
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 07:49:57 AM
Have tentative dates and locations been announced for the visioning process? I am interested in attending.
First, I would take no more than month to conduct Lessons Learned workshops that demonstrate the poor decisions (Main Street pocket park) and what the alternative could have been with greater city foresight and SME (Metro Jacksonville) input.
I complain enough on here. Now it's time I contribute.
Is there a listserv or mailing list I can join?
Why don't you start by moving downtown?
It's sounds to me like you are the sort of person DT needs to help with it's resurgence. The loft next to me is empty and I bet much cooler than any place in Orange Park. I'll even help you move.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it?
From a project management perspective:
1. Brainstorm
a. Funding sources
b. Potential contractors
c. Identify obstacles to projects implementation
d. Identify project champions
2. Swiftly strategize a PR/communication campaign to
a. Raise community awareness (i.e., take a cue from Mayor Delaney re: BJP)
b. Make repeatedly known meeting dates and locations and allow a six-week lead time
c. Present plan with excitement, that despite the economy, this vision is worth seeing through to fruition
3. Engage community leaders, especially those most averse to this administration's performance, to convey this can be done
4. Resolve to remain transparent, available and open to community input
There are many items that can be done before the projects go live that carry minimal cost.
Pre-planning is just as important as implementation.
Quote from: nestliving on May 22, 2009, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 07:49:57 AM
Have tentative dates and locations been announced for the visioning process? I am interested in attending.
First, I would take no more than month to conduct Lessons Learned workshops that demonstrate the poor decisions (Main Street pocket park) and what the alternative could have been with greater city foresight and SME (Metro Jacksonville) input.
I complain enough on here. Now it's time I contribute.
Is there a listserv or mailing list I can join?
Why don't you start by moving downtown?
It's sounds to me like you are the sort of person DT needs to help with it's resurgence. The loft next to me is empty and I bet much cooler than any place in Orange Park. I'll even help you move.
Actually, I live in Riverside, close to Riverside Park. I go downtown at least twice a week via the Riverside Trolley for lunch (I work at Fidelity), go to RAM, walk to The Landing after RAM and take my suburban friends downtown to show them the architecture, urban fabric, new buildings courtesy of BJP and what a grid street system is like (as opposed to cul-de-sac town).
I live in a two-story building, occupying the entire second floor, with 1200 sq. ft., 9' ceilings, original hardwood floors and a 20 minute walk to work and 15 minutes to points of interest in Riverside. Rent is dirt cheap.
What is the loft like and where is it? I'm open to a loft as long as it is cost-effective.
Please email me directly!
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it?
From a project management perspective:
1. Brainstorm
a. Funding sources
b. Potential contractors
c. Identify obstacles to projects implementation
d. Identify project champions
2. Swiftly strategize a PR/communication campaign to
a. Raise community awareness (i.e., take a cue from Mayor Delaney re: BJP)
b. Make repeatedly known meeting dates and locations and allow a six-week lead time
c. Present plan with excitement, that despite the economy, this vision is worth seeing through to fruition
3. Engage community leaders, especially those most averse to this administration's performance, to convey this can be done
4. Resolve to remain transparent, available and open to community input
There are many items that can be done before the projects go live that carry minimal cost.
Pre-planning is just as important as implementation.
Right now, we don't have a vision. Planning a specific project with no vision in place leads to isolated development. This is what occurred in downtown during the most recent boom. The end result is despite the investment, urban synergy between various projects has been difficult to stimulate. With a vision, the specific projects start to add up to an ultimate goal. So at this point, we have not reached the project management level with mega sites discussed yesterday.
So did Mayor Peyton conduct a pre-vision presentation?
My understanding is that there currently is no vision and he wants this proposed community visioning process over the next two years to actually define one.
TheLakelander -- Nice job on the live blogging from the Mayor's downtown/river rollout yesterday. We also appreciate the expansive coverage and pictorial references to put the vision in context. As you know, the Mayor has been talking about a river access program for some time...you can count on the next two years as a time of investment, community conversation and the development of action plans ready to implement. We'll need the help from the folks on this forum to make it a reality. Yesterday was really exciting for me personally. It's fair to say that we've been a bit beaten up of late. It was great to be talking about something that builds momentum and gets the creative juices flowing. This is my home and my wife and I are raising a child here. We love spending Saturdays at the Riverside Arts Market. Our son never tires of being outside. What the mayor will be putting in place isn't just a vision -- these are the places my family, his family and your families will be enjoying long after our term ends. This is not about the crisis of the moment, it's about making our home a better place 20, or even 50, years from now. Adam Hollingsworth, Chief of Staff, Mayor John Peyton
A bit off-topic, but what can we do about leasing the ground-level spaces in the Everbank building? Downtown workers would have more choices and could get there via the Riverside Trolley/PCT.
Quote from: Adam Hollingsworth on May 22, 2009, 12:14:29 PM
TheLakelander -- Nice job on the live blogging from the Mayor's downtown/river rollout yesterday. We also appreciate the expansive coverage and pictorial references to put the vision in context.
Thanks, we had a good response mixing live blogging with pictorial references. This is something we plan to revisit.
QuoteAs you know, the Mayor has been talking about a river access program for some time...you can count on the next two years as a time of investment, community conversation and the development of action plans ready to implement. We'll need the help from the folks on this forum to make it a reality.
No problem, many of those who participate here will definitely be involved in an effort to make many of the things mentioned yesterday a reality.
QuoteYesterday was really exciting for me personally. It's fair to say that we've been a bit beaten up of late. It was great to be talking about something that builds momentum and gets the creative juices flowing. This is my home and my wife and I are raising a child here. We love spending Saturdays at the Riverside Arts Market. Our son never tires of being outside. What the mayor will be putting in place isn't just a vision -- these are the places my family, his family and your families will be enjoying long after our term ends. This is not about the crisis of the moment, it's about making our home a better place 20, or even 50, years from now. Adam Hollingsworth, Chief of Staff, Mayor John Peyton
Thanks for the insight from the Mayor's Office. I'm looking forward to seeing what evolves out of this process.
One thing that Peyton can do that will help his successor tremendously, is to finally make the politically difficult decisions that the next mayor would then not have to spend political capital on. He is not running for any office anyway, so what has he got to lose?
For instance, decide once and for all, WHERE the convention center is going to go. Decide where the eventual replacement for the jail will go. Go ahead and buy or set aside the land for these, so that there will be some 'concrete' around these decisions.
Decide what is going to be done with the toxic sites DT, like the Parkview Inn and Hogan's Creek. Decide how the FBC and alcohol-serving establishments are going to peacefully co-exist DT.
If the next mayor can come in with a completely developed and vetted plan, along with some HARD decisions already made, then they can immediately get about the business of implementing it while they still have a honeymoon with the citizens.
I fully agree with you, vic. The decision making has been unimpressive, especially from a mayor who reportedly has a strong business background.
I hope Mayor Peyton succeeds in forgetting about the trepidation and firmly stands on his decisions (with sound logic).
Maybe the mayor was reading this thread below. I was happy to see the version of this story in the paper include the Shipyards and JEA sites as potential public spaces as I had advocated with the thread:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html
QuoteFor instance, decide once and for all, WHERE the convention center is going to go. Decide where the eventual replacement for the jail will go. Go ahead and buy or set aside the land for these, so that there will be some 'concrete' around these decisions.
Decide what is going to be done with the toxic sites DT, like the Parkview Inn and Hogan's Creek. Decide how the FBC and alcohol-serving establishments are going to peacefully co-exist DT.
Glad the jail was included here. I would add, figure out the social service concentration problem.
(Suspecting I'll get an earful for this, but it IS a problem)
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it? Do we really want the 4th floor coming up with solutions on their own instead of engaging the urban community?
We can dig up old plans, but they don't specifically address the courthouse, shipyards and JEA sites. Looking back, the 2000 Downtown Master Plan is conceptual at best but its no where near a being a real vision plan. We can go with Zyscovich's visioning process, but its not even complete and it does not even address the downtown core. We can go back to the old plans that eliminated LaVilla, but who wants to implement more of that nonsense. We can go back to the plan for a pedestrian mall around Hemming, but JCPenney, May-Cohens, Woolworths and Ivey's are no longer there to anchor it. We demolish 11 East and countless other buildings to make room for Jack Diamond's downtown mall (DC style, not shops) but does that really get us anywhere? We could also go back to Peyton's plan to take out Friendship Fountain, the Landing and to install hot dog charts on the Main Street Bridge. However, if we really want progress, its best to keep that bad idea six feet under.
Personally, coming from Peyton, I'll take this approach with him. Because the last plan "The Big Idea" was a disaster and the last pocket park was a waste of financial resources. I would hate to see something like those ideas forced on these downtown sites because we simply want to see action, hell or high water.
It may be me, but I had already come to the conclusion that Peyton's true legacy project would be either the courthouse or Trail Ridge Landfill. Whether its the Shipyards, a new convention center or figuring out what to do with Friendship Fountain, there is a need to develop true strategies and funding solutions for these sites. Now if it should take two years completely another story.
[/quoteQuote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it? Do we really want the 4th floor coming up with solutions on their own instead of engaging the urban community?
We can dig up old plans, but they don't specifically address the courthouse, shipyards and JEA sites. Looking back, the 2000 Downtown Master Plan is conceptual at best but its no where near a being a real vision plan. We can go with Zyscovich's visioning process, but its not even complete and it does not even address the downtown core. We can go back to the old plans that eliminated LaVilla, but who wants to implement more of that nonsense. We can go back to the plan for a pedestrian mall around Hemming, but JCPenney, May-Cohens, Woolworths and Ivey's are no longer there to anchor it. We demolish 11 East and countless other buildings to make room for Jack Diamond's downtown mall (DC style, not shops) but does that really get us anywhere? We could also go back to Peyton's plan to take out Friendship Fountain, the Landing and to install hot dog charts on the Main Street Bridge. However, if we really want progress, its best to keep that bad idea six feet under.
Personally, coming from Peyton, I'll take this approach with him. Because the last plan "The Big Idea" was a disaster and the last pocket park was a waste of financial resources. I would hate to see something like those ideas forced on these downtown sites because we simply want to see action, hell or high water.
It may be me, but I had already come to the conclusion that Peyton's true legacy project would be either the courthouse or Trail Ridge Landfill. Whether its the Shipyards, a new convention center or figuring out what to do with Friendship Fountain, there is a need to develop true strategies and funding solutions for these sites. Now if it should take two years completely another story.
Then I think he should wait until he has everything in a basket, including the money, before coming out with half hatched plans which draw question marks when you read them.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: JaxNole on May 22, 2009, 11:48:40 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2009, 10:34:18 AM
The presentation is what Peyton showed yesterday. I understand the sentiment about doing something immediately, but do what and where? To implement something, you have to actually have a project to implement. Currently, there is no plan or money for the major riverfront sites discussed yesterday. So what is the guy supposed to build and how will he pay for it?
From a project management perspective:
1. Brainstorm
a. Funding sources
b. Potential contractors
c. Identify obstacles to projects implementation
d. Identify project champions
2. Swiftly strategize a PR/communication campaign to
a. Raise community awareness (i.e., take a cue from Mayor Delaney re: BJP)
b. Make repeatedly known meeting dates and locations and allow a six-week lead time
c. Present plan with excitement, that despite the economy, this vision is worth seeing through to fruition
3. Engage community leaders, especially those most averse to this administration's performance, to convey this can be done
4. Resolve to remain transparent, available and open to community input
There are many items that can be done before the projects go live that carry minimal cost.
Pre-planning is just as important as implementation.
Now this is management strategy at its best; what College did the mayor graduate from? Great job JaxNole, great job...THIS is what I am talking about!
Heights Unknown
Quote from: heights unknown on May 22, 2009, 07:19:16 PM
Now this is management strategy at its best; what College did the mayor graduate from? Great job JaxNole, great job...THIS is what I am talking about!
Heights Unknown
Thanks, Heights. That's just from a PM perspective. A business analyst perspective could include:
1. What is the exact objective of the vision?
a. Why is the vision being unveiled now?
b. What needs will be filled?
c. What has previously been attempted and why did it not meet expectations?
d. What were the previous lessons learned?
e. What changes were implemented from the lessons learned?
f. What determines which projects are included in the scope?
2. How will the visioning process unfold?
a. Who are the stakeholders?
b. Who are the resources?
c. When will the visioning process begin?
d. What are the milestones of the process?
3. What value will come from this vision?
a. How will value be qualified and quantified?
b. How will negative perceptions be transformed into positive ones?
c. How will ROI be determined?
4. Requirements...etc....
I agree with Mr. Hollingsworth that this is not to be viewed as a crisis situation; rather, a sustainable enhancement to future generations' quality of life. There needs to be a balance between delving too deeply into details (which may lead to plan shelving, cost overruns) and hastily acting.
Two years sounds like a long time, but what do I know? I work in the private sector where we lose money as each day passes that we do not have a product ready for consumption. Which brings me back to pre-planning. Circle back, on repeat.
Hmmm interesting
I think it is great to be talking about investing in downtown again. However, I think the city needs to take a more holistic approach to certain areas of the urban core. Focusing only on outdoor spaces won't turn the downtown around. There are two types of projects. One group includes smaller projects like extending the Riverwalk on the Southbank. The other includes larger projects like reworking Metro park, the old JEA site and the Brooklyn area. Plans for these areas should not only include public spaces, but also the vision for residential and retail components. Let's make live, work and play a reality for people! To make this happen, the city needs to start building public private partnerships to get blighted areas developed.
Here is an example off the top of my head. Let's pick the Brooklyn area (between park street and riverside and with BCBS and the skyway master station on the ends). To me this is an area for prime development. So let's contact Novare (the atlanta based affordable condo company who once looked at developing here) and the Hallmark Developers, and maybe the CEOs of some companies we would like to be or should be headquartered here, or some other notable developers from Jacksonville and sit down and create a vision for the whole area. You might even invite the thriving Everbank, BCBS and Fidelity. That area developed would be great for their employees and businesses.
And then we ask, what can the city do? A great urban park on the corner of forest and riverside (parks within walking distance are attractive for residents), a skyway extension (fed dollars? and we know many young professionals are much more willing to embrace mass transit), maybe help with the utility infrastructure, a TIF district, etc. And in return we say to the developers this is the type of neighborhood we envision. Can we make this work? Will you invest in our city if we all work together to make it happen? The new interchange will be done soon, the riverwalk is attractive and has new artwork, RAM is a huge success and within walking distance, Riverside and downtown are both within biking distance. I'm not a developer, but obviously clustering office, residential, and retail together is positive and attractive.
My point is we need to sell our city! If we sit back and wait for it to happen, no one is going to come here on their own. They are going to go to Charlotte, Denver, Nashville. This same process could happen for the potential shipyards site, and metro park. How can we extend downtown and stop creating little bubbles of positive that struggle to survive on their own? Peyton was right when he said the economy will turn around so the time for planning is now. I miss the days of developer announcements of potential big projects. There are still a lot of cities who are building, so it is possible.
A "Gateway" between Brooklyn and downtown? Just add streetcar or skyway (depending on which street you choose). Here's a few samples from history, then and now.
(http://www.wichitaphotos.info/graphics/wpl_wpl1819.jpg)
(http://www.wichitaphotos.info/graphics/wpl_wpl1386.jpg)
(http://www.tramz.com/mx/ch/ch1.jpg)
(http://www.firstbaptistbloomfield.org/images/bel-hill-ent09.jpg)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/17337838_cebcfd4849.jpg)
(http://www.trainweb.org/trolleypostcards/sacramento_oakpark.jpg)
We also once had an arch which stood at the foot of the Ferry Landing in downtown. It advertised the "gateway" to Dixieland Trolley Park, which is interesting as the Trolley didn't reach the park but excursions went to the landing, hence by ferry to the Southside park. By the time South Jacksonville Municipal Railways came about Dixieland was long gone, leaving only treaty oak to mark it's location.
OCKLAWAHA
(http://www.viewcalgary.com/peter/uofc/images/arch_0404.jpg)
Still can't find the key photo I'm looking for, but I'll post it when I do, it's another cool streetcar arch. This one came up in my file but a streetcar would make it all the more "cool".
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteA bit off-topic, but what can we do about leasing the ground-level spaces in the Everbank building? Downtown workers would have more choices and could get there via the Riverside Trolley/PCT.
The ground spaces in the Everbank are empty because the owners of the building, all the tenants, could not get the restaurant to commit and thus it sits empty in a depressing commercial real estate market, http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/10/20/daily17.html. I read in the Atlanta paper this weekend that there are something like 7 million square feet of empty spaces available in ATL for strip centers and commercial space. Look around Jax, there is plenty of it available as well.
One thing of interest though, in hispanic and latin areas of Atl, more restaurants and higher rent rates are being found. They are self funding as restaurant equipment can be found off leases for 20 cents on the dollar. The Riverside area is a residential area, and with the changes going on in 5 points, perhaps it will take a bit longer for someone to take the risk of such a large space in the lobby of the Everbank building. We shall see if O'brothers, the new sushi bar, and the changes at Fuel, will be around in a few years. It may take that long to get someone to risk being in the Everbank building.
QuoteI think it is great to be talking about investing in downtown again. However, I think the city needs to take a more holistic approach to certain areas of the urban core. Focusing only on outdoor spaces won't turn the downtown around. There are two types of projects. One group includes smaller projects like extending the Riverwalk on the Southbank. The other includes larger projects like reworking Metro park, the old JEA site and the Brooklyn area. Plans for these areas should not only include public spaces, but also the vision for residential and retail components. Let's make live, work and play a reality for people! To make this happen, the city needs to start building public private partnerships to get blighted areas developed.
Great idea. One problem, the Mayor is so scatterbrained, why should we believe he will stick to his focus of downtown? Downtown should have been his agenda Day 1 of his second term. Hollingsworth and the PR machine of the mayor's office should have been promoting it every day. At every meeting, promote, promote, promote, we should be so sick of hearing about downtown right now, and yet we are lethargic at best.
My ideas for downtown: Turn the southbank areas around Baptist and Nemours into more medical complexes. Take the empty lots and buildings and add to the Jax Ortho Institute and other medical buildings, turn the area into a medical powerhouse complex. Use the northbank area for the Convention center, open up more green spaces along the river for the people to use the river and to play ball/soccer on the northbank, perhaps shipyards, perhaps Lavilla, since it now just sits empty.
Riverside is residential and that has been the big draw for the Riverside Artists Market. It is so close to the residential part of Jax. That is why it works. Had the City put it in Hemming Plaza, it would and did draw a few people at best, but not the critical mass of a real residential neighborhood. Brooklyn needs more residents to be able to do ANYTHING like what Riverside has done. Not an easy market to build in or lease in, but if there is a mix of what 5 points and Shops of Avondale offer to the residents who would live in Brooklyn, it can and will work. But someone has to build residences in Brooklyn, and they need to be high enough to see out to the river.
Brooklyn is the missing piece in the puzzle to connect Riverside/Avondale to downtown. You fix Brooklyn, you can prove to me that the Mayor has created his lasting vision, and his 8 years were not a waste.
"This is not about the crisis of the moment, it's about making our home a better place 20, or even 50, years from now. Adam Hollingsworth, Chief of Staff"
Adam, what happens when we change direction in 2 years? I liken the mayor to the dog in the new movie UP, where he has the attention span of all about 2 seconds. Mayor Peyton will change his mind next week and we will have a new plan for the next 2 years.
Did anyone else see the "What Works" segment on NBC Nightly News tonight? It showcased Miami Gardens and the positive change that has occurred in the city since becoming a city a few years ago. It goes to show that with strong and enthusiastic leadership, the empowerment of the citizens, and a willingness to increase taxes, anything can be accomplished. Jacksonville is lacking all three in my opinion, so I guess investing in our future isn't really going to work here, unless we get to the point where these three elements converge.
Havent taxes been increased here at some point of time. Also whats the point in increasing taxes when the city just spends it stupidly anyway!!!!
I completely agree Keith. One of the great things about just recently becoming a city, is that the corrupt history, good ol boy network isn't there. There isn't that crap "it's always been done this way" attitude. It is a fresh new start. The people of Miami Gardens essentially raised their taxes and put much of the money towards police and decreasing crime (according to NBC). They created and paid for their own police force which in turn created a "together" philosophy, not an "us vs. them."
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on June 10, 2009, 02:22:34 AM
Havent taxes been increased here at some point of time. Also whats the point in increasing taxes when the city just spends it stupidly anyway!!!!
Sure...but they've also been lowered....the fact is that everyone thinks governments spend money on stuff that is a waste...but your wasteful spending and mine aren't necessarily the same.
Now, as for Jacksonville's taxes....cities and counties in Florida are primarily funded through property taxes.....Duval County's millage rate is the lowest in the state....and the second lowest is 20% higher than ours!
Still feel like our taxes are too high?
It comes down to priorities. Do the people of Jacksonville want to keep their low taxes and continue on the downwards spiral of crime and non-investment; general apathy? Or do we invest in setting a higher standard for our quality of life by cleaning up neighborhoods, building mass transit options, refurbishing our parks, bringing in new companies, etc?
Did anyone say taxes were high. You can raise taxes all you want, doesnt mean that will translate into a better Jax. Havent we seen this before?
I actually attended a meeting with the Mayor today where he presented his vision for our downtown riverfront. This is exactly what we had in mind a few years ago when the JCCI "River Dance" study recommendations were completed. The Mayor is turning our attention to the urban core and attempting to put some infrastructure in place that will help with the revitalization of downtown. If fully realized, this concept would provide walkable access to the river for miles, linking and greatly enhancing some of the major features and public spaces along the St. Johns and several communities (downtown, five points, st. nick, etc.). By increasing the public access along and creating meaningful civic spaces along the river, this would significantly increase the value of the adjacent privately-owned properties and our tax base.
We all know that there is currently no money to execute this plan, but now is the time to develop a vision for our riverfront, begin the planning process, make initial investments in infrastructure where possible, and get public buy-in, so that future administrations are more accountable and feel more compelled to implement the plan.
We also have opporunities that did not previously exist to carve out more public space at the shipyards and the old JEA property. We need to take this opportunity to get a commitment on those properties that will maximize public access as they are developed in the future.
You can point to numerous cities that have been successful utilizing this approach and that have recognized the value of their rivers and the value of maximizing and linking public access to them.
I certainly don't always agree with Peyton, but my initial reaction to this proposal is extremely positive.
^^ That's great to hear. I wish he had this attitude 5 years ago, but better late than never. Metrojax should support this effort 200%.
Yes, that's what brings new companies and jobs to jacksonville...higher taxes. US is about to have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world, so I don't think that we will see an influx of business coming to JAX for some time. We'll have to take our medicine and be non-competitive for about 20 years before we learn this lesson again. Every generation does it. But hey, at least we'll have nice parks.
I challenge you to find a city that has both low taxes and a high level of corporate presence and expansion.
If low taxes were all that mattered, the corporate world would all move to Saudi Arabia.
Quality of life and level of education in the workforce matter far more than property taxes. Just ask Portland, Austin, Silicon Valley, Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, Denver, just for starters.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 11, 2009, 09:17:24 AM
I challenge you to find a city that has both low taxes and a high level of corporate presence and expansion.
If low taxes were all that mattered, the corporate world would all move to Saudi Arabia.
Quality of life and level of education in the workforce matter far more than property taxes. Just ask Portland, Austin, Silicon Valley, Boston, Charlotte, Atlanta, Denver, just for starters.
I agree with you totally, vicup. I have found in my experience that the higher the tax burden, the more desirable an area generally is to live in. Corporate leaders (= corporate headquarters) want to live in vibrant communities that have invested in raising their quality of life. This starts with a great education system for their families and employees that can provide advancement for all and all the other amenities that relate to having first class educational systems and institutions. It follows with lots of green spaces and recreational opportunities coexisting with smart development. Investing in cultural institutions like symphonies, museums, opera, ballet, theater, etc., not just sports, is also a must. Having quality retail and entertainment adds icing on the cake. Other factors include diverse housing opportunities, good transportation on the ground and well connected by air, good medical facilities, etc. Are taxes a factor? Yes, of course. But just one of many factors. Taxes by themselves mean little without the context of all the other variables. It's the old adage: you usually get what you pay for.
The tax rate chasing companies don't set up in the U.S. The ones that do won't be chased away areas that choose to boost their quality of life and educate their future workforce. Up front $ can help differ the cost of moving or originally setting up shop.
Then I would suggest all of you give Steve Ballmer a call and let him know how dumb he is. I also forgot how much manufacturing we still do in the United States. Man, I should read the paper more. Oh wait...
I do not consider myself an expert on what cities have the lowest corporate taxes. That said I would like to see Vic's challenge answered. Here's how I would ask. What cities can we emulate that have a lower corporate tax burden and a better corporate presence?
Quote from: Ron Mexico on June 11, 2009, 09:02:21 AM
Yes, that's what brings new companies and jobs to jacksonville...higher taxes. US is about to have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world, so I don't think that we will see an influx of business coming to JAX for some time.
Sure, our corporate taxes are higher than the rest of the developed world...but our personal taxes (mainly income tax) is one of the lowest....you ahve to get the $ from soemwhere.
The same holds true with Stephen's post above....Wyoming has low sales taxes, but check out their income tax rate!
Big business and big government are very comfortable bedfellows. Big businesses have a competitive advantage over small businesses when it comes to dealing with (or circumventing) regulations and tax codes. They may also have the political influence to those regulations and tax codes written to their liking.
This is an issue about whether we are going to invest in our future or not. As a city that spends less on services than the state average ("recent JCCI study: ranks near the bottom nationally on its funding of services"), we are setting ourselves up for failure. Take a look at the new JCCI study (http://www.jcci.org/projects/reports/2009CityFinance.aspx (http://www.jcci.org/projects/reports/2009CityFinance.aspx)) and read Ron Littepage's piece in today's TU (http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-06-11/story/government_on_the_cheap_taking_toll_on_jacksonvil (http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-06-11/story/government_on_the_cheap_taking_toll_on_jacksonvil)). Our tax burden may be very low, but we don't have the money to invest in important infrastructure improvements, to provide essential services, or to even adequately maintain what we already have. The question is, is it worth it? Do we want this city to become another Detroit, or do we expect more for ourselves? I for one want to ensure a high quality of life that partially comes from the benefits of certain services and capital investments that only our government can provide. If it costs me a little bit more out of my paycheck, then I am all for it. I am a firm believer that we pay one way or another. Making wise investments in our city is so much cheaper for all of us in the long run. The key is to make sure that we hold our elected officials accountable to spend our money wisely and efficiently.
I have worked with corporate taxes and I can tell you that states such as California and New York have both high corporate AND personal income taxes. New York CITY even adds its own income tax on top of the NY STATE. This is also true with Philadelphia and Pennsylvania. California invented the aggressive UNITARY corporate income taxes which taxes multinational corporate income on an apportionment basis rather than where actually earned and regardless of which subsidiaries do business where. This serves to limit the ability of a multinational to manipulate income to out-of-state subsidiaries in low tax jurisdictions. Florida actually implemented this concept for its corporate income tax in the 1980's before the legislature backed down and rescinded it after IBM threatened to move its PC division from Boca Raton (which it eventually closed anyway!). So, effectively, states with unitary income taxes can tax income shifted to Florida but Florida is unable to "return the favor" to its detriment.
If you were to make a list of public and/or major companies headquartered in California or New York, I believe you would find a lot more there than in Florida. In fact, Silicon Valley, by itself, probably outranks all of Florida. And, no one can argue that it isn't the source of innovation and new businesses in high paying, high tech industries.
What Florida tax structure is good for is attracting lots of retirees trying to avoid state imposed income and estate taxes. Many of these are fixed or limited income people who not only rebel against taxes of any kind but could care less about Florida investing in such things as education (they are empty nesters), social services, transportation, etc. because they live in gated condo communities that act as bubbles insulated from the community at large and because they may have their real "loyalty" to a second or original community in another state.
What Florida has really done is try to shift its tax burden to taxes paid by tourists such as sales and gas taxes. Problem is, when tourism drops the State gets clobbered. Add to this, the huge drop in sales taxes due to the falloff of construction materials used in home building and the South Florida Republican led (Jeb Bush and Mr. Rubio) property tax mandated cuts, and Florida has pretty much gutted its ability to raise revenue. Charlie Crist is using slight-of-hand to take Florida's reserve funds and one-time sources such as the stimulus money to balance the budget until he can escape the governorship for the senate and leave a mess for his successor.
A wealth of very good information there!
Guys,
This tax battle could go on for centuries. Here, go play: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5229.0.html (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5229.0.html). Let's keep this on-topic.
I'm intrigued by some of the ideas people have had for urban core design and redevelopment on these forums and in this topic. I would agree that the riverwalk expansion is probably one of the first things to begin.
Would the old courthouse support a new convention center as suggested in this thread? That would seem an ideal location downtown. If we spend our 2 years right, this could be our time to find a new home for our city's convention center and destroy the Prime Osborne extension. I will not rest until the Jacksonville Terminal becomes a true rail Terminal once again!
I for one commend the Mayor and his participants in our local government for being pragmatic in knowing that, while we don't have the money for spending now, let's not waste time and instead plan for what we CAN do when the time comes. It sounds to me that if a downtown vision isn't the plan we want we have only ourselves to blame...
Quote from: stephendare on June 11, 2009, 05:18:37 PM
And Ron Mexico. Where on earth did you get the idea that we would have the highest tax rate in the developed world?
I havent seen anything like that in my reading. Please forward some links.
Don't know how reputable it is or how relavent, since it lists 2006 date, but this stands out to me:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1466.html
Quote
A wave of corporate income tax reduction is sweeping through many countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), but not the United States. The latest to consider corporate income tax rate reductions are Australia,1 Germany,2 New Zealand,3 and Spain.4 Others, like Canada, are continuing to phase in corporate rate reductions in 2006 and beyond.5 This movement transcends political philosophy, with center-right ( Australia), centrist ( Germany) and center-left ( New Zealand, Spain) governments all considering corporate income tax rate cuts.
As OECD countries continue to lower their corporate income taxes, they can expect to reap more foreign direct investment from the U.S. A recent study by Deveraux and Lockwood found that a 10 percent corporate rate reduction by an EU member-state can reap a 60 percent short-run increase in investment by U.S. multinational corporations.6
While foreign governments entice U.S. investors by lowering their corporate tax rates, the federal government in the U.S. stands pat with the same rate structure it has had since 1994. Indeed, one of the ironies of tax policy during the Bush presidency is that five years of tax-cutting legislation have left the corporate income tax rate unchanged.
QuoteMisty Skipper is the Public Information Officer
She works for the Mayor, don't expect anything earthshattering or mindblowing from her, she is his mouthpiece.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/22917.html
http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/FE9DCA58402875D7852573680064DA50?OpenDocument