QuoteMayor John Peyton said he’s making riverfront and downtown development a priority for his final two years in office.
Peyton announced a sweeping number of developments today. The projects would revamp Metropolitan and Friendship parks among other potential developments â€" including a stylish gateway leading from the Brooklyn area into downtown.
Peyton did not have a cost for the wide array of projects, which are still conceptual. He said he wanted to open the ideas to community discussion so that taxpayers could determine the best path for their tax money.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-05-21/story/peyton_priority_shifting_to_downtown_riverfront_development (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-05-21/story/peyton_priority_shifting_to_downtown_riverfront_development)
Mea Culpa
Im betting this means ... Death to the Fountain... :'(
I would really hate to see the fountain go. I have some really fond memories there.
It is another icon of Jacksonville that some are willing to sacrifice. ::)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 21, 2009, 03:19:08 PM
Im betting this means ... Death to the Fountain... :'(
Anything is possible.
I heard this on the radio this morning. I would love nothing better than to see Downtown developed but there is a much easier way. Move the social services, jail and bus station and don't let the vagrants hang out and I think we would see a huge change. All the amenities in the world won't bring in people or development if the core is overrun with bums and panhandlers. I was at the Library last night for the Historic Commission awards and was greeted on arrival with vagrants fighting and screaming in Hemming Plaza. All this right next to the tents set up for the Jazz Festival. I'd put up with the rain at functions anyday over having to deal with vagrants. Ideally I would have liked to hang around and check out the goings on but not with that pack of shady characters carrying on. I was in Pittsburgh last week and it was awesome. We wandered around Downtown, the riverfront and a cool entertainment/shopping area near the Universities and saw a grand total of ONE bum. It actually startled me a little because I didn't even see him until he stuck a cup in front of me as I passed the doorway he was standing in. That was it, not a word, just a cup that was there and gone in a second. We went down to the Riverfront where the 3 rivers meet. It was beautiful with benches all along the water and nothing, no one on the benches, no one asking for money. There was a Pirates game going on right next to us in the stadium but no cops, just parking attendants at the garages and no craziness. We sat at sidewalk cafes and went to bars and experienced nothing but pleasant patrons. It was all so enjoyable.
Consider yourselves recruited...the door is open. Thanks!
Quote from: CrysG on May 21, 2009, 03:22:23 PM
I would really hate to see the fountain go. I have some really fond memories there.
would it not be cool if we as a city gave the original architect (Taylor Hardwick) the opportunity to redesign the fountain and it's surroundings.....His work should be respected in some way like this.
Maybe I'm being nostalgic but I'd like to see Friendship Fountain restored to its original functionality.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on May 23, 2009, 09:21:33 PM
Maybe I'm being nostalgic but I'd like to see Friendship Fountain restored to its original functionality.
So would I. I know brides that plan their wedding around that fountain.
How much would it cost to install tables and seating (not just one or two) and lighting to make it a gathering space rather than only a fountain surrounded by concrete?
There aren't many choice spots to have lunch or a picnic, despite the scenic Northbank backdrop.
There are already several benches between the fountain and river. However, better utilization of the grounds is definitely in need.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/469307130_9nfqp-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/469307293_yHXPe-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/469307551_NKg5x-M.jpg)
You are correct Springfield girl. The city continues to allow more and more of these facilities to be put downtown. When I have friends from out of town who visit they are always shocked at the numbers of homeless they see. State St & Union St are lined with the homeless waiting to be fed. They even have a huge bom fire they keep going there 24 hours a day. Hemming Plaza is overrun with homeless, the main library is used as their showering facilities, and the new pocket park on Main Street is a new place for them to hang out as they wait for their next hand out.............
Quote from: tpot on May 24, 2009, 07:33:00 AM
You are correct Springfield girl. The city continues to allow more and more of these facilities to be put downtown. When I have friends from out of town who visit they are always shocked at the numbers of homeless they see. State St & Union St are lined with the homeless waiting to be fed. They even have a huge bom fire they keep going there 24 hours a day. Hemming Plaza is overrun with homeless, the main library is used as their showering facilities, and the new pocket park on Main Street is a new place for them to hang out as they wait for their next hand out.............
And?.......
Heights Unknown
........and having these resources located in the center of downtown JAX is a huge negative for the city. The city can build all sorts of public space in downtown JAX, but if it gets overrun by the homeless, then all they did is create a new place for them to sleep, drink & urinate. Prime examples are Hemmining Plaza and the Main Library...........
Steven,
First there is a difference between being "jobless" and the people we have milling around downtown. I know a lot of jobless people, non of whom are sitting on a street corner asking for money. I know a lot of jobless people non of whom using are using main library for their personal showering facilities.
I don't think it's a simple as creating a volunteer corps to give the homeless a job. I know first hand there is a church on the Westside that gets requests from homeless people for food. The churches policy (which I agree with 100%) is that if you work for 1 hour helping the yard and janitorial crew you get a meal. Hardly anyone ever takes them up on their offer. Why would they when they can get downtown and get a meal for free?
QuoteThe toughest problem with this issue is not the homeless.
The homeless are 65% of the reason I don't live downtown. Why would I want to live downtown and have to be asked "hey you, do you have a dollar" everytime I want to go to the Library, park or any other place downtown? I've said this before on another thread. One time when I went to visit my husband's office on the Southbank, in the one city block it took for me to walk there, I was stopped THREE times with someone asking for money. As a woman I'd rather live in the 'burbs and almost never be asked for money then live downtown and be asked for money repeatedly.
Crys,
Every person who lives in a decent size city deals with the homeless. They are everywhere. In Jacksonville, the only difference is that the people who should be living downtown are not because they think we have a homeless problem. In my opinion it's the total opposite, we have a resident problem. Move downtown, you'll see really quickly that it's the same 10 guys walking around asking for money. Tell them where to go once and they bother you no longer.
Quote from: nestliving on May 24, 2009, 03:20:13 PM
Crys,
Every person who lives in a decent size city deals with the homeless. They are everywhere.
True - I've been approached in a Wal-Mart of all places. Some guy just wouldn't let up about asking me for money or a pack of cig's. This was in the parking lot and later IN the store itself. Same guy.
So it's definitely not isolated to downtown. It's just the homeless shelters and outreach facilities are mainly there.
peyton is a mini retard he s are very own personal president bush.
Peyton is correct about prioritizing the downtown river front.
Quote from: stephendare on May 24, 2009, 12:17:30 PM
Even TUFSU should be able to understand that.
Understand what?
Remember, I live downtown...and chose to do so knowing full well how many homeless people circulate in front of my home.
But here's a question...how many homeless people did you see downtown this weekend?
The City didn't shoo them away, but when the sidewalks are full with other people, the homeless don't stand out.
So you guys REALLY think that Jacksonville's homeless problem is worse then South America? HA! HA! HA! Yet the cities in South America teem with vibrant life. South America also has suburbs, malls, and strip centers, yet downtown is where it's at. We need to study WHY. I did note that about sunset the "good people" tend to clear out, but after dark they come back. The city belongs to everyone all night long. Interesting.
Jacksonville could use it's new relationship with Curitiba Brasil for more then a BRT study, let's see why the downtown is the heartbeat of a city roughly twice our size.
For the first time in my life I find myself cheering Peyton and Hollingsworth on to victory, "Streetcars and Victory". Adam, you know where I'm at so let's talk, we'll make a legacy that will last for centurys.
OCKLAWAHA
Yeah I live downtown also and I can say that it's very rare that I ever get bugged by homeless people. Actually I've noticed that spots that used to be 'hang out's' for homeless people (i.e. the park in front of the Florida Theater), I haven't seen any in those spots in a while. However majority of the time that I'm walking thru downtown is at night time if that makes a difference.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 24, 2009, 07:50:21 PM
So you guys REALLY think that Jacksonville's homeless problem is worse then South America? HA! HA! HA! Yet the cities in South America teem with vibrant life. South America also has suburbs, malls, and strip centers, yet downtown is where it's at. We need to study WHY. I did note that about sunset the "good people" tend to clear out, but after dark they come back. The city belongs to everyone all night long. Interesting.
Jacksonville could use it's new relationship with Curitiba Brasil for more then a BRT study, let's see why the downtown is the heartbeat of a city roughly twice our size.
For the first time in my life I find myself cheering Peyton and Hollingsworth on to victory, "Streetcars and Victory". Adam, you know where I'm at so let's talk, we'll make a legacy that will last for centurys.
OCKLAWAHA
Visit Brazil and venture out of the tourist area if you dare, I wouldn't recommend it without some very savy and armed friends. The homeless situation is NOTHING like SA and other areas.
I think Jax's problem is on par with ATL.....and, of course, ATL is a much larger city with far much more going on downtown. It will be hard to get off the ground with ATL's homeless and few of thier downtown draws.
Quote from: CrysG on May 24, 2009, 02:45:50 PM
Steven,
First there is a difference between being "jobless" and the people we have milling around downtown. I know a lot of jobless people, non of whom are sitting on a street corner asking for money. I know a lot of jobless people non of whom using are using main library for their personal showering facilities.
I don't think it's a simple as creating a volunteer corps to give the homeless a job. I know first hand there is a church on the Westside that gets requests from homeless people for food. The churches policy (which I agree with 100%) is that if you work for 1 hour helping the yard and janitorial crew you get a meal. Hardly anyone ever takes them up on their offer. Why would they when they can get downtown and get a meal for free?
QuoteThe toughest problem with this issue is not the homeless.
The homeless are 65% of the reason I don't live downtown. Why would I want to live downtown and have to be asked "hey you, do you have a dollar" everytime I want to go to the Library, park or any other place downtown? I've said this before on another thread. One time when I went to visit my husband's office on the Southbank, in the one city block it took for me to walk there, I was stopped THREE times with someone asking for money. As a woman I'd rather live in the 'burbs and almost never be asked for money then live downtown and be asked for money repeatedly.
You are right "CrysG," there is a difference; but don't forget that the jobless can quickly turn into the homeless, and quickly be privy and exposed to the problems that cause homelessness if depression sets in (drug abuse, alcohol abuse, etc.).
Not to beat a dead horse or continue to stray off track from the thread topic, but the possible cure for homelessness, if the person that is homeless chooses it, is to attack the root cause of the problem that have made that person homeless (i.e., no job, disabled, drugs, alcohol, financial problems, unemployment, etc.).
If our society built more facilities to give these people (the homeless) more hope and choice, if they choose, to help them eliminate their social ills that helped them to become homeless, we would have less homeless people out on the streets; and lastly, remember the trillions we spend on other useless things in this country that haven't worked or don't work. We could use a ton of that money to build transitional facilities for the homeless and others who are in need in every major city and/or town in the nation to help the homeless with their social ills and problems that have helped them to become homeless.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: civil42806 on May 25, 2009, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 24, 2009, 07:50:21 PM
So you guys REALLY think that Jacksonville's homeless problem is worse then South America? HA! HA! HA! Yet the cities in South America teem with vibrant life. South America also has suburbs, malls, and strip centers, yet downtown is where it's at. We need to study WHY. I did note that about sunset the "good people" tend to clear out, but after dark they come back. The city belongs to everyone all night long. Interesting.
Jacksonville could use it's new relationship with Curitiba Brasil for more then a BRT study, let's see why the downtown is the heartbeat of a city roughly twice our size.
For the first time in my life I find myself cheering Peyton and Hollingsworth on to victory, "Streetcars and Victory". Adam, you know where I'm at so let's talk, we'll make a legacy that will last for centurys.
OCKLAWAHA
Visit Brazil and venture out of the tourist area if you dare, I wouldn't recommend it without some very savy and armed friends. The homeless situation is NOTHING like SA and other areas.
Civil, I've got great friends in Brasil, in fact they were with us all this long weekend! I've NEVER had a problem with violence there. My dad bought 1,000+ acres north of Brasilia. The only City where it didn't look like a good idea to "wander" was Rio. It's like New Orleans, tourism in a bathtub and 4 Million beggers living all around it wanting the Yankee Dollar.
The most I witnessed was back in Bogota, 1982... Uh but THAT was in the middle of a Civil War. I stood at my hi rise hotel window and watched the M-19 fire artillery into the capitol complex. They didn't aim anything my way as I made SURE that Communist headquarters was next door. BTW, looking down into their courtyard, they hade the biggest red flag I've EVER seen! I don't miss those days.
Your right, Jacksonville is NOTHING like S.A., in fact today in Colombia, Medellin "The Worlds Most Dangerous City", has a violent crime rate in the whole urban area that is 1/5 TH of Jacksonvilles. OCKLAWAHA
While on a fishing trip to Guatamala a few years ago, I saw poverty like I have never seen in the US. People at the airport, begging for money everywhere, then over their shoulders were armed guards with automatic weapons. Poverty and homeless in the US, while sad, have it very good compared to other countries.
I agree with Stephen, if we had public places for them to shower and use the restrooms, we would have less issues. They are after all human beings and we should treat them as such.
If the mayor wants to spend 100 million on the fountain, he is dumber than I can remember. Give the school system that 100 million and let it be used to fund the future of the city. The fountain is fine the way it is, our city educational system is not. Fix what is broken.
QuoteThe fountain is fine the way it is, our city educational system is not. Fix what is broken.
Both are broken and need to be repaired.
From the Daily Record:
-Architect Taylor Hardwick, who designed the Haydon Burns Library and Friendship Fountain, is working with the mayor’s office on the restoration of the fountain. Hardwick pointed out an image of the fountain is used by Grone Plumbing Company of Germany as its symbol for the company’s international advertising.
Interesting find Steve. I would expect that Mr. Hardwick would have only the best intentions for his original masterpiece.
If it was originally planned as a landmark and 'masterpiece', then it should have been created with the intention of being maintained better than it has been (which is not at all). I'm not saying it's Statue of Liberty status, but it is one of our recognizable symbols and does deserve a full restoration.
And I can't be the only one who thinks that this planning for development is somehow linked to the city employees not getting a raise... again... I'm referring to the 'lesser-known' ones who pretty much work to make those you have heard of look good.
Quote from: Steve on May 27, 2009, 11:03:37 AM
From the Daily Record:
-Architect Taylor Hardwick, who designed the Haydon Burns Library and Friendship Fountain, is working with the mayor’s office on the restoration of the fountain. Hardwick pointed out an image of the fountain is used by Grone Plumbing Company of Germany as its symbol for the company’s international advertising.
but I thought most people on this site decided the Mayor had "evil" intentions....what gives?
The Mayor will listen if enough people don't like the proposals he puts forth. Thus the death of the Big Idea, the Landing agreement, Cecil Field, Trail Ridge and Friendship Fountain kiddie pool replacement.
The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week. And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park. While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part. That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.
Quote from: Adam Hollingsworth on May 27, 2009, 03:53:17 PM
The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week. And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park. While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part. That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.
Adam, give me a call or see me at ...... (well you know). Anyway, if I can help in ANY WAY to get the transit money headed our way, vintage streetcars or Skyway, rail etc... just give me a call. I will put my whole spirit into it for free, it's my passion. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on May 27, 2009, 04:56:12 PM
TUFSU. What really is the point of the extremely labored sarcasm?
Stephen, its really quite simple....
1. I'm a sarcastic person
2. I don't think the Mayor ever had a plan to "destroy" Frienship Fountain
Sure, he may have considered replacing it with some type of interactive fountain and he still might be....but if it draws people to the park and they have fun, what's wrong with it?
QuoteSure, he may have considered replacing it with some type of interactive fountain and he still might be....but if it draws people to the park and they have fun, what's wrong with it?
It would be the elimination of another unique Jacksonville landmark. Looking at the holes in our downtown, this strategy has failed and we should move on from it. Why continue to eliminate our few remaining unique treasures for gimmicks that every city has? What would really make the place special is to find a way to incorporate the landmark into a new park plan. If we want an interactive fountain, there are a few acres of surface parking lots on that property where it could be accomodated in addition to the restoration of the landmark fountain.
I agree the city owns alot of land they can tinker with. Just restore the fountain and move on to the next project.
Lake...I think the holes in downtown are created by tearing buildings down without putting something up in place...
But progress can be ok...for example, the new Federal Courthouse....its pretty nice but what stood there before?
Same with the new Library....while its design may not be ideal, it is clearly a benefit to our downtown.
In the case of the fountain, I believe that Mayor Peyton understands its iconic status....but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...let's see what Hardwick and HDR copme up with.
Quote from: Adam Hollingsworth on May 27, 2009, 03:53:17 PM
The Mayor spoke with Taylor Hardwick before announcing his riverfront access push last week. And, the Mayor will meet more formally with Mr. Hardwick next week to discuss the full 14 acres known as Friendship Park. While discussion about the fountain is important, remember, the site is more than that and we need a community conversation on the whole, not just part. That's what we will be looking for...and look forward to having this forum's continued engagement.
Adam, I hope the Mayor pushes what could be a legacy to rival all his other accomplishments: The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces . In 50 to 100 years or more, these parcels will serve as monuments to his visionary leadership in preserving these spaces in the midst of what, undoubtedly, will be a far larger city, one that will truly appreciate these wide open spaces gracing the riverfront. It is meant to be that these sites remain available to the City to develop in this manner and the Mayor should not miss this "second chance" at capturing these properties for the citizens of Jacksonville!
As a respected adviser of his, I would hope you could prompt him to elevate this project as a priority of his administration.
See the MJ thread at http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html for more discussion on this topic including my posts below:QuoteNY City has Central Park. Washington DC has the Mall. San Francisco has Golden Gate Park. Philadelphia has the Benjamin Franklin Parkway/Fairmount Park. Boston has Boston Commons. And Jacksonville has .....?
Most great cities of the world have places where hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people can gather at one time for great celebrations and events in their downtown areas. Jacksonville has Hemming Plaza!
After hosting the Super Bowl in 2005, the Jax community should be more aware than ever of the value of, and need for, a mega-site consisting of dozens of urban acres to host major events of local, regional, national, or global importance. The SB host committee utilized two such sites for their event (one for concerts, the other for the NFL experience), both still unused, but neither currently on the drawing boards for retention by our community as event sites.
These two sites are the Shipyards property along the river on the Northbank and the former JEA Southside Generating Plant property on the Southbank. Either, or both, of these sites should be a priority for preservation as public spaces to allow Jax to host super-large events, festivities, and gatherings as its population, and hoped-for national influence and reputation, grow. Without such venues, Jacksonville's capacity to host large events will be forever limited, much more so than even by a convention center which could hold only a fraction of the people utilizing an outdoor venue.
Think about the up to 2 million people that visited DC for the inauguration. Or the hundreds of thousands in Central Park for a concert. Or the 1 million that have gathered in Philly for a spring festival. Jax can barely accommodate a few thousand for fireworks, mostly spread out for miles along the downtown river banks.
And, should Jax lose the aforementioned sites, where and how would we be able to host an event like the Super Bowl again? Where could we place tens of thousands of visitors like that in the future?
We can always find a couple of city blocks for a convention center (I think the courthouse site could spare a few!), but finding dozens of acres downtown in the future will be nearly impossible to replicate. (Hey, maybe a new convention center could be co-located on such a site.)
NOW is the time for Jax to step up and secure one or both of these mega-sites, or forever mortgage our opportunity to be a host to big time events. Both sites are in indefinite limbo, their values depressed due to the economy. Why not utilize/reinvest/bond some of our hotel taxes or other tourists revenues to acquire these lands today.
Quote from: stjr on February 17, 2009, 12:34:12 AM
Some interesting numbers for urban parks:
Fairmount Park, Philadelphia: 9,200 acres total; 4,400 core (by the way, laid out by William Penn in the 1600's, some 200 years before Central Park!)
Golden Gate Park, San Francisco: 1,017 acres
Lincoln Park, Chicago: 1,200 acres
Central Park, NYC: 843 acres
National Mall, Washington, DC: 309 acres
Boston Commons: 50 acres
Springfield Park, Jacksonville: 37 acres!!!!
Why are we acting as if park space downtown is finite? Why can't we have all the existing park areas mentioned and add new parks at JEA and/or the Shipyards? These choices don't have to be mutually exclusive. This satisfaction with the status quo is what keeps Jax from moving forward as a City.
If Lake is suggesting adding the Shipyards to Metro Park, that would be a great idea. Much of the land in Boston along the Charles River is public parkland. Much of the land around San Francisco Bay is the same. Fairmount Park lines the Schuylkill River in Philly. Much of the land lining the Potomac in Washington is parkland. It's a fact that cities prefer parks with waterfront! We are fortunate to have some of the best waterfront in the world and we have little more than 20 foot +/- wide and paved riverwalks to show for it.
The cost today of buying these lands will pale to their future value when Jax "grows up" into a truly big city. Imagine the value of Central Park's land today versus the mid-1800' s when it was founded. I am sure it was never considered "cheap" but it is now priceless! Add to it the value it has added to the quality of life in NY and to its economy over those same 200 years.
Where will Jax be in 25, 50, 100, or 200 years? Does anybody in this town think in those terms? It appears not. Folks, we are talking about a legacy to future generations, not what it means to today or tomorrow. William Penn had more foresight in the 1600's than Jax does in 2009! It's time to start thinking outside the box.
By the way, JEA, is a city-owned authority, putting it's land already in the public domain. It should offer the land as part of its compensation to the City which owns it. Remember, JEA has a few billion in assets. Twenty, thirty, or forty million in land is not going to break it, especially if it's amortized over several years.
And, if the City can find tens of millions for a stadium upgrade that might not last more than another 20 or 25 years, why can't it find a lesser amount for land that will last "forever"!
In the end, where there is a will, there is a way. Let's start practicing it in our community!
a lawn sprinkler ... ooops, excuse me, an "interactive aquatic play space" is not an improvement on Friendship Fountain. If an interactive fountain is wanted, put it next to to FF, or elsewhere in the park. Fix the doggone thing, so it can reclaim it's former glory!
QuoteBut progress can be ok...for example, the new Federal Courthouse....its pretty nice but what stood there before?
Same with the new Library....while its design may not be ideal, it is clearly a benefit to our downtown.
Or progress could be tearing down the old post office (Hogan & Adams) and replacing it with the vacant Furchgott's box on the corner today. Or blowing up the Imperial Theater for the metal parking deck across the street from 11 East. Or taking out the wharfs and replacing them with surface parking.
The difference between what the Federal Courthouse replaced and Friendship Fountain, is that the Fountain is a local landmark. The courthouse replaced vacant retail boxes and a hotel that replaced an architectural jewel before them. As for the library, what's ok could have been great if they found a way to incorporate the Rhodes Building and some of the other historic structures on that block or built it on a surface parking lot instead. That way we could have had an extra block of historic building stock and eliminated one of our many surface lots littering the core.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 27, 2009, 10:20:11 PM
In the case of the fountain, I believe that Mayor Peyton understands its iconic status....but that doesn't mean it can't be improved...let's see what Hardwick and HDR copme up with.
From my experiences, the best urban spaces find a way to preserve important structures and landmarks while integrating them with new uses. Preserve the landmark by fixing the pumps and use creativity to address the reconstruction of the rest of the site and proper integration with the uses surrounding it (MOSH, River City Brewing, Maritime Museum, surface lots). With this method, we can turn an ok improvement into a great one that incorporates new and old.
I'd love to see the fountain shoot for the tallest water jet in the world or some other stunning things such as the water projection theater effects. We could place photos of the beautiful city treasures and bounce them off the water curtain, maybe even put it to music. If y'all have never seen these they can be stunning.
(http://www.supernova-events.com/admin/UserFiles/Image/laser1.jpg)
(http://www.dcmw.com.my/picture/maha-2.jpg)
(http://allears.net/tp/mk/potc10.jpg)
(http://www.geniuslaser.com/services/waterscreens/photos/citylifedare-rainman63.jpg)
(http://aminima.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/zapp3.jpg)
(http://www.lobo.de/uploads/tx_LBProdukte/12X001-Screens-Start.jpg)
(http://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/giantnessie64ea88fl5.jpg)
(http://www.waterscreen.de/water-shield-projection.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, they used to do these laser or other pictorial projections on water curtains as part of the nightly fireworks and show at Seaworld. Haven't been there in a while so I don't know if they still do it but it was spectacular and that was years ago. I would imagine the technology is more advanced now and they can take it to another level. What would be really neat would be to stage something like that (using portable pumps on barges or even permanently embedded in protected platforms in the river) every Saturday night with Jax Superbowl style fireworks, weather permitting, on the river Downtown. Imagine the reputation and crowds Jax would attract once the word got out. It could be paid for by DVI and merchant sponsorships and/or the extra sales taxes on revenue from Downtown hotels, bars, and restaurants.
Speaking of that, why don't we have some restaurants and bars front directly onto the Riverwalk with outdoor bands staged every 1000 feet or so. Eat dinner, walk the walk, spend the day at RAM and take in an evening or matineee show at the Times Union Center. See a movie or show at the Florida Theater. Take the free trolley to the Ritz for more music and fun. City garages and surface lots should be opened for a few dollars. Run the Downtown Trolleys in a loop on Friday and Saturday nights to increase mobility. Add a few extra police to improve the sense of security and direct extra traffic.
QuoteThe preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces . In 50 to 100 years or more
How many structures downtown are 50 or 100 years old? Most that come to mind are still in need of repair or outright remodeling. How can you expect a fountain to last for 50 or even 100 years, here in jacksonville?
Some of you are speaking of the fountain as if its a tourist destination, like the Bellagio in Vegas. We will never have that kind of presentation, not enough land to build the lake that feeds those water cannons. So fix it to work, maintain it to work, and build the convention center next to the river, so that the people who come and stay in the Hyatt, have a reason to come downtown for their convention.
How many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 28, 2009, 10:50:55 PM
How many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?
I dunno.... how many come to see the lions in San Marco?
QuoteHow many tourists come to Jacksonville for the fountain?
The fountain is for us... the residents.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 28, 2009, 10:50:55 PM
QuoteThe preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces . In 50 to 100 years or more
How many structures downtown are 50 or 100 years old? Most that come to mind are still in need of repair or outright remodeling. How can you expect a fountain to last for 50 or even 100 years, here in jacksonville?
Mtrain, your quote from my prior post has nothing to do with what you posted as a response. My post was about the Shipyards and JEA properties being preserved as public spaces and had nothing to do with the fountain:
QuoteAdam, I hope the Mayor pushes what could be a legacy to rival all his other accomplishments: The preservation of BOTH the Shipyards and JEA properties as public spaces . In 50 to 100 years or more, these parcels will serve as monuments to his visionary leadership in preserving these spaces in the midst of what, undoubtedly, will be a far larger city, one that will truly appreciate these wide open spaces gracing the riverfront. It is meant to be that these sites remain available to the City to develop in this manner and the Mayor should not miss this "second chance" at capturing these properties for the citizens of Jacksonville!
Riverwalks and parks are great but can't we get most of this primo real estate on the tax rolls to help pay for all this other wonderful stuff everyone wants?
considering the market, not anytime soon
QuoteMtrain, your quote from my prior post has nothing to do with what you posted as a response. My post was about the Shipyards and JEA properties being preserved as public spaces and had nothing to do with the fountain:
Considering that the shipyards were before the pile of dirt that sits there now, actually shipyards owned by private companies, if the city, at a later date can sell the land to a developer, who is to say that 50 to 100 years down the road, the land ever comes back to the City? Who knows what overlays will be deverloped for downtown growth between now and then.
I think we need to look no further out than 1-2 years, see what the economy brings us, and at max, look at a 10 year horizon. Economic cycles and recessions have been running about 8-10 years (2009, 2001, 1992, 1981-82). I think 50-100 is way to far out. Shoot Jax was still recovering from the fire 100 years ago.
The JEA parcel has always been envisioned to have broad, public space on the river as part of any future development. And although it's a little presumptuous, it does appear that the shipyards property may be back in city ownership. Already, LandMar has spent millions on the bulkhead and riverwalk extention, which will provide riverfront access. The question for both properties is how to maximize public space on the river, while generating long-term private development that adds to our tax base. Jacksonville has a 40-acre Metro Park on the river. We have a 14-acre Friendship Park on the river. Add to that public space at JEA and shipyards, connected by a vast riverwalk, and that will be a spectacular benefit to residents and visitors alike.
Just to throw a complete hypothetical out there....
What if the city were to ask MOSH to move to the Prime Osborn, thus giving them more room for larger exhibits, that they dont currently have. Thereby freeing up the parcel that now makes up the MOSH and Friendship park into a water front convention center? Could there be a tribute paid to the fountain in a world class design, with a water park being PART of a convention center?
The Friendship Fountain / MOSH site is under utilized to be sure. A site that large and prime has a lot of unrealized potential, IMO. There is a great opportunity to create some snergy and create a true destination. The fact that so much of the site is surface parking is all you need to know to understand that.
The MOSH building doesn't even acknowledge or engage the river or fountain at all. Personally, I would tear down the building and build a high-rise in it's place, maybe two. There is no better site for an office building, condo or hotel anywhere in the city. Virtually every window would have views of the fountain, the river, the bridges, and the Northbank skylline. A single story building in that location is a tremendous under-utilization. MOSH could be incorporated into the new project, as well as a decent visitor's center for the city.
A convention center would work too, but wouldn't build on the existing strengths of the nearby Hyatt and Landing that the courthouse site would.
Bottomline, that whole site needs a MAJOR do-over but with the fountain itself left intact.
BTW, I would like to thank Mr. Hollingsworth for his many postings to this site. Many posters to this site have been a consistent critic of Mayor Peyton on many issues. I would count myself as chief among those. That said, I think many of the criticisms were valid and were based on issues and not the man personally.
For his representative to engage directly with us, says a tremendous amount about the mayor's confidence and leadership style, which is admirable.
See, I think the location in relation to the skyway, multiple hotels, walkability to the Landing all make it a prime location for a convention center.
I am ready to let the fountain go, but it MUST be replaced with something as noteworthy, but make it part of a larger plan to make southbank a true destination that a fountain by itself wont.
I love that as a posible convention center site if we could preserve the fountian.
I believe the fountain could once again be special, if fixed. Its a local landmark and we don't have many left in the core today. Its pretty special and unique when its working. At some point, we need to cherish and preserve what we have left and the fountain offers a great opportunity to do that.
The major concern placing a convention center on that site would be the lack of an attached convention center hotel. Our market can't support any more major hotels in downtown without giving someone heavy incentives on top of the money that would have to flow into the construction of a convention center. Saying this, I guess you could build skywalk over Main Street to connect something on that site with the Crowne Plaza. Nevertheless, cost wise, you'd spend a ton more to buy out RCB's 99 year lease and to relocate/demolish MOSH and the Maritime museum. Then once you have made that investment, you still don't have the complementing retail/dining/entertainment uses nearby that Bay Street/Florida Theater/Landing, etc. offers with the current courthouse site.
Given the T-U's financial situation, I wonder what their likelyhood of selling their property would be? It would seem to me that they could move the printing plant to a smaller location elsewhere, and given the cutbacks, probably need less office space as well.
That site could work as a convention center. It is pretty big and would be on the Riverwalk, and just a short walk from the Landing. The Skyway passes right by it, so a station could be added relatively cheaply. The McCoy's Creek 'cap' could be removed too. The only thing missing would be the hotel, which supposedly the market can't support.
Preserve the fountain at all costs, yes, MTrain, people have come to the fountain for years just for a look at one of the most photogenic sites in all of urban America. A search of any internet photo site will unleash endless photos of Jacksonville from that vantage point. It's a damn shame that they closed the observation deck over the pumps.
MOSH would be a great site for a Aquarium, or better yet, "MARINELAND AQUARIUM AT JACKSONVILLE." (Play off a historic site that was completely destroyed but holds millions of memories to generations... Yes I know it has reopened, but not as the aquarium it once was - THAT part COULD BE in JACKSONVILLE!
The MOSH building even with the additions is one of the worst designed buildings in the history of history museums. When it was first built it didn't even have a "cannon door" (ie: a door large enough to bring in a real vintage cannon or field piece). The little hex wings screw the whole thing into a maze of tight spaces. Just as a for example: The Oklahoma Museum of Science and Industry OMSI, is about the size of two Prime Osbourne exhibit spaces. So wide open you could fly an airplane through the darn place. Why are we so primitive that our best history or science museum looks like a phone booth collection next to OKLAHOMA CITY'S.
Both MOSH and the exhibit floor of the Prime Osbourne are the best locations in Florida for Jacksonville to practice it's passion for DYNAMITE! BOOM = AMTRAK, BOOM 2 = AQUARIUM! Easy math.
The following is for friend STJR, and anyone else violating the rules of MJ's Transit Geek on line.
(http://www.freefoto.com/images/2033/11/2033_11_6---Heritage-Trolley--Lowell-Historical-Park--Lowell--MA_web.jpg)
THIS is a Trolley...
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/26129210_954d1df73b.jpg)
THIS is a Potato Chip Truck...
...and...
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2024/2083978910_5aabdc5cec.jpg)
THIS is a Potato Chip Truck - Thinks - It's - A - Trolley, aka: JTA'S PCT TROLLEY. "PCT"= Potato Chip Truck
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 31, 2009, 02:21:21 PM
The following is for friend STJR, and anyone else violating the rules of MJ's Transit Geek online.
Say, what Ock? I don't support the $ky-high-way but what has that have to do with streetcars and trolleys which I both support? I have never commented, that I recall, about the JTA trolley being a substitute for any of these. How was your Saturday night? I think its left you a bit off today. Get better soon. :)
mtraininjax is the huge faux potato chip truck supporter.
Quote from: Adam Hollingsworth on May 31, 2009, 07:34:34 AM
The JEA parcel has always been envisioned to have broad, public space on the river as part of any future development. And although it's a little presumptuous, it does appear that the shipyards property may be back in city ownership. Already, LandMar has spent millions on the bulkhead and riverwalk extention, which will provide riverfront access. The question for both properties is how to maximize public space on the river, while generating long-term private development that adds to our tax base. Jacksonville has a 40-acre Metro Park on the river. We have a 14-acre Friendship Park on the river. Add to that public space at JEA and shipyards, connected by a vast riverwalk, and that will be a spectacular benefit to residents and visitors alike.
Adam, this is great news for the future of Jax if the mayor and the administration is leaning this way. While I have been a vocal critic of the Courthouse design not going vertical, I will gladly trade off that issue for getting this accomplished. The Courthouse can be torn down in 50 or 60 years but this land will endure FOREVER.
Thanks for participating in this forum and having a thick skin to absorb some arrows. To echo Vicupstate, engaging people in a rational debate is healthy for the community and I support your efforts to participate in same. Most posters here may not agree with the City or each other on many things, but I believe most are sincere in advocating what they think is best for Jacksonville. I know you and the Mayor feel the same way.
Lake, with the sites proximity to the Skyway, it ties in very nicely to the Omni, and the new Hotel and parking at Kings Station. A simple covered portion of the riverwalk between a hypothetical convention center and the hotel across Main St would suffice, and be cheaper than building a skyway over Main.
You are walking distance from Hyatt, The Landing, and East Bay Street.
I also have to say, if we can recreate the iconic fountain into a well designed center, but with updated pumps and lighting. Im not for simply ripping the fountain out, but it was done as part of something that really did something special for downtown, I have a hard time being against it.
Simply ripping it out to redo the park is not an option, IMO. Redoing it as part of something bigger, however, is positive for the city, and the park.
QuoteLake, with the sites proximity to the Skyway, it ties in very nicely to the Omni, and the new Hotel and parking at Kings Station. A simple covered portion of the riverwalk between a hypothetical convention center and the hotel across Main St would suffice, and be cheaper than building a skyway over Main.
The skyway connection should not be directly relied upon for the hotel connection because it doesn't run 24/7. The best and most successful convention centers typically have a convention center hotel directly adjacent and attached to them. The ones that don't are typically in search of bringing one in. Although the nearest skyway station is a block a way, the fact that there would be no convention center hotel directly attached to it would be a negative factor, in regards to competing for events with facilities in peer cities. My view is, if we're going to make the investment in a new center, it needs to be something that puts us in a superior position to the competition. With that said, a sizable hotel directly attached to it is a must.
When I take my road trip at the end of this week, I'll make sure to get images of the convention center environments in the various cities I'll be in.
City list here: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5112.15.html
A convention center well connected to mass transit is great. But, in a city the size of Jacksonville, I think most attendees for local and regional events will be wedded to their cars for years to come. Locals will continue to demand on-site parking. Regional visitors arriving by car will demand on-site parking or some mode of connection 24/7 by mass transit from any hotels they may be staying at. If we can't provide mass transit from the convention center to several hotels with thousands of potential rooms (I don't see that coming anytime soon), I don't see how we get around a massive dedicated parking facility or lot. Witness Orlando or Savannah.
If the convention center needs its own parking, the amount of land needed , even for a garage, goes up significantly. I believe that narrows the options quickly and would eliminate the MOSH site which is hemmed in. The JEA/School Board site would be far better if we decided the Convention Center should be on that side of the river. It would also have better road access if the DOT built exits from I-95 which runs along side it to that area, not to mention the nearby Beach Roads and US 1. We could run a street car loop from the site, down Hendricks, through San Marco shopping, up San Marco Blvd., and back across Mary Street and River Place Blvd. Such a loop would access several hotels, lots of restaurants, MOSH, the fountain, the Riverwalk, and San Marco shops. It would also intersect the $ky-high-way for those wanting to go Downtown (or they could take a river taxi).
I also think a Convention Center needs truck parking for massive deliveries and for exhibitors with big set ups and/or outdoor displays. Some visitors may also come in RV's for certain events. More parking is also needed for groups arriving in tour buses from other cities and/or outlying hotels.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_F9St9mFLbOU/RxYMPoBa8mI/AAAAAAAABZ4/fwDvKdC65Cg/s400/view%2Bfrom%2Bthe%2Bpeople%2Bmover%2Bwith%2Bren%2Bcenter.jpg)
THOUGHTS: Skyway from the Central Station to the Convention Center - INTERNAL STATION - SECOND FLOOR - would be killer good. Also SKYWALKS or COVERED WALKS that would wisk passengers from adjacent buildings into the Skyway stations all along the Convention Route would be very beneficial.
(http://www.backpackingmalaysia.com/images/uploads/sights/kl-times-square2.jpg)
Southside streetcar is not going to fly unless we come up with a streetcar river crossing. It's true that a small car shed (such as the San Marco Station buildings) and a circulator route would be a great fit in that sector, but a simple Skyway extension to Atlantic at The FEC RY might be cheaper and better fit, plus it would add the new Hilton to the mix, and the inaccessable, "mother of all parking garages."
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stjr on May 28, 2009, 12:43:09 AM
Speaking of that, why don't we have some restaurants and bars front directly onto the Riverwalk with outdoor bands staged every 1000 feet or so. Eat dinner, walk the walk, spend the day at RAM and take in an evening or matineee show at the Times Union Center. See a movie or show at the Florida Theater. Take the free trolley to the Ritz for more music and fun. City garages and surface lots should be opened for a few dollars. Run the Downtown Trolleys in a loop on Friday and Saturday nights to increase mobility. Add a few extra police to improve the sense of security and direct extra traffic.
Never said you supported it, but you certainly named it and suggested it's expansion...
But of course, 5 SOCO's later, I'm just messing with you! SMILE!
See STJR, I'm not half as think as you stoned I am.
Join my one man crusade to stamp out calling PCT'S "trolleys"... They are not even trolley buses! Calling and PROMOTING these damn things "trolleys" makes our whole community look Ignorant, and as ignorance gets started it knows no bounds.
I'd love to "Run the Downtown Trolleys;" the ones you mentioned right off a barge and into the Atlantic Ocean, they'd make beautiful reefs - but their looks might cause a Jelly Fish bloom. OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 01, 2009, 12:14:38 AM
Quote from: stjr on May 28, 2009, 12:43:09 AM
Speaking of that, why don't we have some restaurants and bars front directly onto the Riverwalk with outdoor bands staged every 1000 feet or so. Eat dinner, walk the walk, spend the day at RAM and take in an evening or matineee show at the Times Union Center. See a movie or show at the Florida Theater. Take the free trolley to the Ritz for more music and fun. City garages and surface lots should be opened for a few dollars. Run the Downtown Trolleys in a loop on Friday and Saturday nights to increase mobility. Add a few extra police to improve the sense of security and direct extra traffic.
Never said you supported it, but you certainly named it and suggested it's expansion...
But of course, 5 SOCO's later, I'm just messing with you! SMILE!
See STJR, I'm not half as think as you stoned I am.
Join my one man crusade to stamp out calling PCT'S "trolleys"... They are not even trolley buses!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, its the weekend and I'll cut you some slack here. Mentioning the downtown trolleys in this context was merely working with the present infrastructure. Substitute the real thing or street cars is fine with me - we'll just be waiting for another decade. This was a quick fix, not a crusade.
STJR, Thanks for the slack, God knows I might hang myself with it someday... Good to have one more aboard my TRANVIA (TRAM) that knows a PCT when they see one!
"Save Jacksonville, scrap a PCT today" (No offense intended to STJR or FRITO LAY Corp).
OCKLAWAHA
typical. growth is great, but at what expense?
SAVE FRIENDSHIP FOUNTAIN! ;D
According to Ron Littlepage today, Ron Barton and the JEDC are still pursuing a plan to rip out Friendship Fountain, and replace it with interactive kiddie sprays.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-06-14/story/friendship_fountain_and_the_riverfront_facelift
QuoteLast week, Barton showed me conceptual plans - with a heavy emphasis on conceptual - that could be a way to reshape the park.
Instead of one giant fountain, there would be several interactive water features that would still shoot streams of water into the air but also invite people - mostly children - to cool off on a hot summer day.
Think the fountain in the Landing's courtyard but on a bigger scale.
There is something good in that plan:
QuoteAnd an addition to the Museum of History and Science would reorient MOSH toward the river and park instead of facing away from them as the museum does now.
But this quote from Littlepage shows he is falling back into his trend of being so thrilled that people of power will share with him, that whatever dreck they spew forth must be manna:
QuoteOne hurdle is Friendship Fountain itself. Many people are attached to it, and that's understandable. But what if something better replaced it?
A "water feature" spraying water for children to play in, is NOT "something better." Heck, every time I put my good old oscillating sprinkler out on my lawn, I have a water feature that children can (and do) play in!
What is it that Peyton has in his head that friendship fountain has to go? How many THOUSANDS of pictures are taken, many used by the Chamber of Commerce and the like, from the Fountain vantage point with the fountain in the image? It's an icon. Why destroy it?
Having something that is kid oriented is fine, as long as it is part of an overall package that has something for EVERYONE. This is a key centerpiece of the DT , it should appeal to EVERYONE. Teenagers on a date should want to enjoy the area just as much as an older couple, or a group of college guys out for a night at a sports bar. If it is just for kids and their parents it will be be a failure and a waste of a awesome public resource. Isn't Kids Kampus the ideal place for something like this?
I see nothing wrong with having an open discussion about the future of the park...and the discussion should include options for the fountain....this park could once again be an amzing public space, especially if MOSH gets re-oriented to face the park and river.
As for the Kids Kampus comment above, now maybe folks will understand why the idea of moving it here made some sense.
Does an OPEN DISCUSSION include the possibility of KEEPING the fountain?
How about having some renderings that include that? The decision has already been made to toss the fountain, that's why.
If the parking lot was replaced with a garage, there would be PLENTY of room for an new interactive fountain AND keeping the existing one plus everything else mentioned in the column. Why not Charette this whole idea but with ALL options on the table.
I'm pretty sure there will be a charette (or similar meeting) in the near future
Sure they drew an alternative that got rid of the fountain...but do you know that they don't have one with it? Even if they don't, there's always the "no-build" option.
The Mayor and JEDC want public discussion of the riverfront as a whole over the next few years...and that inludes this park....so instead of ASSUMING that the decision has already been made, why not get involved?
If there are drawings with the existing fountain, why didn't Barton show them to Littlepage? Or if he did, why didn't Littlepage mention that there are different concepts on the table? I am afraid vicupstate may be right. I am sure several of us will be happy to participate in an open discussion process - if there is one.
A question - did the administration's latest proposal for Metro Park / Kids Campus come out of (or was it even discussed) at the recent charette for that space? Not saying if the administration's proposal is good or bad (although I think it has merit - it even has kiddie water squirters), but if it came out of an "open process."
Every time I hear something about Peyton and downtown, I kind of feel like I'd rather he leave downtown alone. I just don't think he gets it (nor his administration).
However, I'm open to be proven wrong, and I'd ba happy to admit it if I am
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 14, 2009, 08:39:00 PM
A question - did the administration's latest proposal for Metro Park / Kids Campus come out of (or was it even discussed) at the recent charette for that space? Not saying if the administration's proposal is good or bad (although I think it has merit - it even has kiddie water squirters), but if it came out of an "open process."
from what I've seen, yes....the design folks from HDR were involved in the JaxPride charrette that Ocklawaha and I attended....and they took the ideas from that session back to the office....and some of them showed up in the sketches from the press conference a few weeks ago.
Cool. That is encouraging. Hoping the Friendship Park process will be open, and the Administration will listen to other ideas.
I'd like to see Barton and the JEDC come up with a concept that shows both a restored fountain and the kiddie stuff located outside of the current fountain's foot print. An open discussion would start with all options having an equal opportunity, with the final solution moving forward behind community support. Imo, there's no need to draw lines in the sand. The site is large enough for a compromise that can make everyone happy.
QuoteImo, there's no need to draw lines in the sand. The site is large enough for a compromise that can make everyone happy.
Lately, many have used Chicago's Millennium Park as a good example of public space design. Does anyone think Chicago's waterfront park system would be better today if they constructed Millennium Park's interactive Crown Fountain over the nearby historic Buckingham Fountain instead? In other words, don't lock yourselfs into thinking that the fountain can't be restored (replacing the pumps) and that additional water features can't added on site if the fountain remains.
Btw, is there any price tag for this project? I remember the Mayor mentioned in his visioning press conference that the Metro Park renovations could be as much as $100 million. To be honest, even with major investment in these spaces, they'll still be isolated pockets of greenery. A major priority should be given to how these spaces will interact and connect with the surrounding core area.
If we had the option, it would be better to spend minimal upfront dollars on these spaces if $30-$40 million could be shifted for the implementation of a streetcar line that connects DT to Five Points, Springfield and Metropolitan Park. You'll get more bang for your buck when the line starts to stimulate infill economic development throughout the downtown area, while serving as a direct link between all major downtown destinations. The money made from an increase in property taxes could then be funneled over time into major public backed upgrades on these sites.
I wish instead of running his ideas by Littlepage, the administration would give this forum a chance to give its opinion of there plans. Littlepage is certainly no more qualified than anyone on this forum to render a judgement on if this is an 'improvement' over the current park. ANd MANY forumers do have experience in urban planning or architecture or a related field.
I guess when you buy ink by the barrel, you are considered an expert on any topic.
Although, why would ANY plans even exist, if they want public input and all options are on the table? Shouldn't the renderings be based on what comes out of the charette?
the administration does give this forum does a chance....that's partly why Lakelander was invited to attend the press conference
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 15, 2009, 10:52:16 AM
the administration does give this forum does a chance....that's partly why Lakelander was invited to attend the press conference
I think there is difference between being invited to the unveiling and being included in the discussion as the plan is being formulated. The new plan for Metro Park/ Kids Kampus is already designed and funding is being requested now.
Lots of people were invited to the press conference, it doesn't mean they had anything to do with it.
Quote from: stephendare on June 15, 2009, 10:53:06 AM
You would be surprised how many conversations and ideas that the Administration has listened to from our site over the years.
Our readership hasnt always agreed with them, (obviously) but there have been a number of policy decisions whose outcomes were changed by the Metrojacksonville readership and board.
Here are a few off the top of my head....
- Elimination of JTA's BRT plans for a Downtown busway on Adams, Bay and Forsyth Streets
- Killing the idea of building dedicated busways throughout town. Now the plan is put buses on existing streets. People may not consider this a big thing, but we saved taxpayers hundreds of millions and years of embarrassment on this issue.
- Being a catalyst for the Laura Street Streetscape project. We did a presentation on this concept for Suzanne Jenkins' Downtown Action Plan Committee and with Paul Crawford (JEDC) a couple of years ago.
- I-95 Downtown Signage (most recent)
- The incorporation of the S-Line as a corridor for commuter rail (btw, its highly debatable if the commuter rail and streetcar studies would have happened without Metro Jacksonville's continued promotion of rail as a needed transit component in Jacksonville.)
- Revising the downtown parking meter ordinances. Unfortunately, we fell short in the second half of this plan (getting Council to purchase smart meters).
Quote from: vicupstate on June 15, 2009, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 15, 2009, 10:52:16 AM
the administration does give this forum does a chance....that's partly why Lakelander was invited to attend the press conference
I think there is difference between being invited to the unveiling and being included in the discussion as the plan is being formulated. The new plan for Metro Park/ Kids Kampus is already designed and funding is being requested now.
yes...and members of this forum attended the charette and were actively involved in some of the design ideas.
City and Fountain are a toxic mix, at best.