http://www.jacksonville.com/community/the_sun/2009-05-02/story/jacksonville_developer_threatens_demolition_of_historic_buildings >
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Wow. I'm surprised they even came to the table to destroy these buildings for a drive in pharmacy. Considering the condition of those structures and the fact that they are a part of a national historic district, I don't think they'll get far. Anyway, I agree 100% with Carmen Godwin. Explore ways to put the pharmacy inside of the building and redo the parking lot behind it to accommodate a drive thru, similar to the bank down the street.
QuoteGodwin said she thought a pharmacy would do well in the area, but a better alternative to tearing the building down would be to put the pharmacy in the historic building.
"It would be very cool to go there," she said, "just like they have in Boston or New York City."
That's just a ridiculous idea, this should be nothing more but a huge waste of time and conversation.
These are the buildings directly across from Memorial Park correct? A suburban style CVS just isn't going to look right from that park. Retail within those buildings could be done. With the Publix and the pharmacy in Five Points it just doesn't seem that the need would out way the Neighborhood development desires.
The cluelessness of some in this town amazes me.
shocking! I can't believe they would want to tear these down.
I hope RAP stands strong against this greedy developer.
What a dolt!
the article says they want to put in a 70,000 square foot pharmacy....the new-style CVS/Walgreens stores are no more than 15,000 sqaure feet....so either the # in the article is wrong or they intend to do far more than just a simple suburban drug store.
Walmart in Riverside.
Just what the area needs.
:)
**someone needs to slap some sense in that developer's head.
I know we are always yelling mixed use but what a great mixed use site it would be. The court yard could house a sidewalk cafe on riverside ave across from the park.
^OK I think I have been picturing the wrong buildings.
That would really suck. Plus, you'd lose more of the tree canopy across from Sushi Cafe and Starbucks. I'm sorry, but I damn sure don't want to look at a CVS or anything like that across the street.
This is by far the worst idea I've heard in years. I've lost all respect that I had for Carlton Jones. Talk about something to galvanize the neighborhood into action!
His daughter was my LPI and II professor at FCSL. What a small world...
I don't think Carlton Jones is a bad guy. His team just needs to get more creative and break out of the Jax "Big Box or Bust" mode. If they are open minded, this site may be the perfect opportunity for them.
I was in the area last night and noticed that the building is for sale...how does that play into this?
Carlton Jones already owns it. If he wants to demolish the structures for a pharmacy, he must stand to make a decent buck for doing so. After all, it is a pretty nice corner.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 05, 2009, 08:20:33 AM
I was in the area last night and noticed that the building is for sale...how does that play into this?
If I had to guess, he probably doesn't want to be the fall-guy. Jones has always had a great reputation locally, and this situation will probably be damaging for him. Plus he's no dummy, and everybody knows once you get on RAP's developer $h!t-list, you may as well just scratch the neighborhood of your plans. I don't think he wants to deal with that either.
Odds are he's going to tell CVS (cause' let's be honest...that's got to be who the buyer is) or some other developer to buy it, and then let them deal with the heat. That would be the smart thing to do, he walks with his profit and avoids the headache.
You have got to be kidding me!
This is just disgraceful. RAP should oppose this. Those brick buildings are great structures. Just imagine the traffic on Riverside Avenue right in front of the park with all the other shopping in the area. It is already a traffic jam morning and evening.
QuoteGarrett said tearing down historic buildings in such a historically and architecturally rich area is disrespectful of the community.
Is SPAR listening? Stupid developer. Everyone knows if you want to tear down historic buildings go to Springfield. Doesn't seem to be a problem for SPAR. Gone are the days of standing in front of bulldozers. And disrespecting the community and their opinions is the new standard.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 04, 2009, 12:09:36 PM
Wow. I'm surprised they even came to the table to destroy these buildings for a drive in pharmacy. Considering the condition of those structures and the fact that they are a part of a national historic district, I don't think they'll get far. Anyway, I agree 100% with Carmen Godwin. Explore ways to put the pharmacy inside of the building and redo the parking lot behind it to accommodate a drive thru, similar to the bank down the street.
QuoteGodwin said she thought a pharmacy would do well in the area, but a better alternative to tearing the building down would be to put the pharmacy in the historic building.
"It would be very cool to go there," she said, "just like they have in Boston or New York City."
This building doesn't lend itself to retail; it's main floor is about 4 feet above street level and the placement of the elevator is awkward for an open floor plan. I'm sure the necessary changes could be made to turn it into a pharmacy, but I doubt it would be economically viable. I say leave it as it is.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 04, 2009, 12:20:52 PM
These are the buildings directly across from Memorial Park correct? A suburban style CVS just isn't going to look right from that park. Retail within those buildings could be done. With the Publix and the pharmacy in Five Points it just doesn't seem that the need would out way the Neighborhood development desires.
I agree; if I remember correctly, this building or the buildings are a few blocks away from 5 Points in a purely residential area. I say leave the commercial/shopping center for this neighborhood at 5 Points and not have an "out of the way" CVS or any other business "in your face" all by its lonesome. What are they thinking? Anyway, that building is a nice old piece of residential art, so leave it alone.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: stephendare on May 05, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Well technically speaking, I did stand on top of a bulldozer as recently as 06 as it was busy attempting to demolish our old building at the corner of 8th and Hubbard.
Hooray for Stephendare the Crusader and Advocate!
Heights Unknown
We need to mobilize on this if there is any credence to the story. Any time we dismiss it as "that would never be allowed", it generally does. Especially in my always forward-thinking hometown. If a CVS or some other travesty of planning is allowed there, the neighborhood welcome won't be pretty and our city "leaders" should be held accountable. What a novel idea- elected representatives answering to their constituents.
Any idea on timeline and any public meetings that will be held? Although we see how much impact turnout at public meetings have on public entity decision-making. Take, for example, St. Johns River WMD.
Quote from: riverside_mail on May 05, 2009, 07:36:48 PM
This building doesn't lend itself to retail; it's main floor is about 4 feet above street level and the placement of the elevator is awkward for an open floor plan. I'm sure the necessary changes could be made to turn it into a pharmacy, but I doubt it would be economically viable. I say leave it as it is.
It appears the building is for sale at this point. Its also on one of Riverside Avenue's strongest corners for retail, buffered from single family residential by the apartment complex/garage next door and includes a decent sized surface parking lot. I'm not familiar with the interior, but the location would be a prime spot for retail/commercial if adaptive reuse of the building is possible.
From a design standpoint, the main floor being 4ft above street level should not be a killer for retail conversion. What does the interior look like? Is it full of historical features worth preserving? How tall are the floor heights?
There are a few things left of historical significance. If i remember correctly, one of the offices still had a fireplace in it leftover from the original apartments. Other than that, nothing else stands out that i can think of. Each entrance has a flight of stairs up to the main level from the street, the back door has a ramp. The ceiling height is about 10'. It could be used for small retail stores but I can't see it being used as a pharmacy in the modern sense.
If you look in the windows, you see people in there working. It doesn't look like they're having a problem renting the space...
CVS must be offering them a bundle...
This is the most backwards thinking project in a while. The building should currently be very profitable, so I see no need to change it. The 70,000 sq ft in the article is very interesting, i wonder if they are planning an urban, mixed use design with a ground floor pharmacy. That would be a different beast entirely. I might be willing to consider that, but the drive through is still a sore spot.
I hope that the residents of Riverside vehemently protest this. Doesn't their council member support them rather well? I don't understand why they can't drive up the street to the Walgreens.
If its a CVS, they may not want people driving down to Walgreens. They may be attempting to tap into the urban market that Walgreen's currently has a monoply on. As long as the older buildings can be incorporated into uses that add to the neighborhood's character and vibrancy, things should be okay. Hopefully, a compromise can be arranged that gets better use out of the site for the owner and neighborhood, while still preserving the historic buildings.
I know if they can convert a two story house into a drive through bank...then they should be able to make a CVS work at that location within the existing buildings.
That two story house down the street is all the proof needed that if open minds prevail, a win win solution can be implemented.
Why does it even have to have a drive through? The Walgreens at King has many more people in it than I ever see at the drive through. Also, when I was in Chicago and Boston there were CVS's and Walgreens all over downtown without drive thoughs. I think a Walgreens developed in that area, that uses the existing building would be very successful without a drive through.
Not saying there has to be a drive through. Just using the existing house they turned into a drive through bank, as an example of anything can be done.
I was not responding to you FSU but just in general. That area of Riverside has shown to be very pedestrian friendly. I don't believe that it needs a drive through to be successful.
i will admit drive through's play an important role for elderly\sick folks picking up there prescriptions, it really does make it quite a bit easier, especially when you are waiting in that evil walgreens line. I however do not believe that one is needed at this location, they already despoiled the area with the publix souped up strip mall.
A pharmacy might not be a bad option in the building (a la Wiese pharmacy by the Roosevelt Publix), but a drive-thru pharmacy is totally NOT an option, especially when it involves tearing down the existing buildings. This corner is one of the historic district's prime entry points, across from one of (if not THE) iconic city parks, and the present proposal will most definitely get residents girding their loins for a fight. Imagine sitting at the Starbuck's or the sushi restaurant admiring the drive thru and its attendant vagrants. (Visiting the King Street Walgreens is like navigating the squeegee guys in pre-Giuliani New York.) As a RAP Board Member, I can guarantee RAP will fight a demolition of these buildings with full guns blazing. Really, what a dumb idea.
People are also forgetting that Owens Pharmacy is just around the corner at 5 Points. Why not support a neighborhood stalwart instead of a chain. They are better than a drive through - they have free delivery in the area! Service is first class. And there was another local pharmacy at Park and King in addition to a Walgreens as I recall. That would be at least 3 pharmacies. I know Baptist has an in-hospital pharmacy so I would think St. Vincents might have one as well. If so, that's 4 pharmacies!
If people are on Medicare, Medicaid, or insurance, all they need is service. The prices are fixed by the government or insurance company. Having another pharmacy isn't going to change the market place.
QuoteThere are a few things left of historical significance.
You really need to go and read Dr. Wayne Wood's book on Architecture in Jacksonville. There is more around us than you think.
1) This demo will never happen, permit for demo is controlled by the Planning Department's Historical division, and they are controlled by RAP.
2) What person, of sound mind, would buldoze a building to build a 70,000 sq ft facility at a time like now, when they stand to pay all the back taxes from the 10-year freeze on the tax bill?
Just does not make sense to occur, so probably a done deal, especially since Corrigan did not find his way into the TU article.