The I-95 Overland Bridge Project
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/519184199_7uomT-M.jpg)
The I-95 Overland Bridge replacement project will snarl urban Jacksonville traffic until 2017. Here is a detailed look at the project's overall purpose and individual components.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/1072
Which FEC tracks are being removed?
I am just wondering; is the traffic that heavy, or the interchanges so outdated and/or overloaded, that they really need to do this? Or are they just spending money so it won't get lost or maybe they're doing it to put people to work. It just seems to me that that current section of I-95 is o.k.; now if there were always traffic snarls or continued around the clock congestion or major problems with the interchanges, I'd say yeah this is needed. Worse case scenario? 8 years of headaches and people being put to work.
Heights Unknown
Bridgetroll,
The FEC tracks were removed a long time ago. When the Overland Bridge was constructed, there was a railyard serving a shipyard and the old JEA Southside Generation Station.
Heights,
I was told the bridge is over 50 years old and is deteriorating. So its a matter of biting the bullet and replacing it or spending money to keep it up and then replacing it anyway.
Quotethere was a railyard serving a shipyard and the old JEA Southside Generation Station.
As I thought... Thanks Lake.
If you spend this kind of money, how about putting in some I 95 tunnels to enhance connectivity on the southbank??
Good idea, but where's the bedrock/water table? Can we do tunnels, in regards to those?
Tunnels?! Do you know how expensive it would be to relocate sewer, water, power, and fiberoptic lines? Not to mention completely having to remove street in order to do so, you'd do more harm than good IMO. It also wouldn't make sense to build a tunnel on reclaimed river and swamp.
I hear water table is 4-7 ft.
No chance for a tunnel. And Reednavy raises a good point about the reclaimed swamp.
Welp. Nothing left to do but to sit back, try to relax, and let the next 8 years be filled with more I-95 construction. Hooray highways being the only answer in this town!
Not sure if Beloki meant that I95 should be a tunnel or if there should be tunnels running beneath I95. The latter, I agree with. Especially if portions of the proposed raised earth section will be blocking roadways.
As Lake mentioned on an earlier thread use this as a catalyst for commuter rail to mitigate the impact of construction. How about we leave a little room for possible skyway expansion and with JTA's streetcar plans in consideration.
Same MISTAKES different day Jacksonville!
No Southbound ACCESS either way from:
ATLANTIC/BEACH
KINGS
= Bad Plan, Big Mistake, HUGE!
We got a multi-million dollar garage and a monorail terminal + a bus (future BRT multi-modal Kings Av Station) with NO ACCESS FOR COMMUTERS.
FDOT, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT! @^&!%^#$%^@!
Soco time.
OCKLAWAHA
Has ANYONE at JTA or DOT thought about using this as a springboard into the Southbank Commuter Rail Line?
Hey, they did Tri-Rail in Miami when they tore up the 95 expressway... and it took hold and LIVES. Now what about us?
Oh I forgot, Cowford SYNDROME.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, it doesn't appear the FDOT is willing to spend millions to correct a mistake made by JTA (skyway garage location and access). From what I've been told, this is strictly a bridge replacement project. All of the associated improvements must be done because they have to keep I-95 open. Anything involving the skyway and new highway interchanges will have to be apart of another project.
correct....this is purely a "maintenance" project using maintenance funds....any additional improvements (i.e., ramps, tunnels, etc.) would have to come from capacity funds.
The other issue is that adding other things to this project would complicate the environmental review process...and it could take 5+ years just to get Federal approval....I think they are trying to get through this as fast as possible to get the project started before they have to spend too much $ on interim repairs.
As I noted in another thread, any interchange changes would require either an IMR or IJR study....which would cost at least $1 million and add a few years to the review/approval calendar.
It's a little hard to read the minute details of the photos here so please confirm the following will exist when all construction is finished:
The Main Street bridge ramp will, after combining with the Acosta Ramp still provide the ability to do ALL three of the following:
1. Exit to Beach/Atlantic
2. Exit to US 1
3. Enter I-95 Southbound
Will these exits mirror the current direct arrangements to #1 and #2 or will more twists/turns be added? How many lanes will exit I-95 in the new arrangement to feed 1 through 3 above. I am assuming I-95ers be able to rejoin I-95 at the ramp's end if they take this ramp in error or change their mind to exit assuming #3 is correct. Is this right?
Only the Acosta will provide direct access to Hendricks Ave. What are they thinking on the Main Street Bridge connection alternates? Do they involve upgrades or street reconfigurations? Where there many speakers to this at the hearing?
(http://www.readingrailroad.org/roster/images/rdc_9162.jpg)
While I think we'd all agree that the Skyway Multi-Modal Station Southbank, and the Garage were done without a thought to traffic or potential passenger load, the exits should have been built from the start, Al La 1960.
It's a relative easy fix to see that a long exit ramp (see highway 46 ramp at the Seminole Town Center, Sanford, for an example) could be done Northbound between Emerson and Atlantic. Yes, it would probably take out the last row of buildings next to the sound barrier wall. But in true Socialist Highway fashion, it would be "For the Greater Good of the People."
A Southbound entry ramp from Atlantic-Beach/Kings/is a wee bit tougher, but a flyover from the SW corner of Kings and Atlantic, up and over the US 1 ramps and a merge about 1/2 way to Emerson seems possible. Also traveling Southbound on Philips, a left turn onto a widened side street which ends in a ramp SOUTH would also work if signal protected.
None of this approaches the subject of Commuter Rail, which could be done within 60 days, as a mitigation factor. We should at least get rail to Race Track or Old St. Augustine Road. Simple asphalt platforms, 100' long, simple bus shelters, a cryptogram sign, and a large grass, gravel etc parking lot, for a quick start. A maintenance contract with FEC or Watco (both railroad operators have HUGE shops in Jacksonville), for 5 RDC cars, and we're in business. Y'all do recall that the FEC is NOT CSX, so the State deal with Orlando/CSX has ZERO bearing on our Southbank Rail opportunity.
FYI, after the Loma-Prieta Earthquake, LA Metrolink was up and running in DAYS! Borrowed or loaned equipment and rail crossings for stops... hey it worked!
OCKLAWAHA
Stjr, the images can be enlarged by clicking them. Here is a larger image of the minute details.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/519184163_gm8cF-L.jpg)
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 27, 2009, 01:07:10 PM
correct....this is purely a "maintenance" project using maintenance funds....any additional improvements (i.e., ramps, tunnels, etc.) would have to come from capacity funds.
The other issue is that adding other things to this project would complicate the environmental review process...and it could take 5+ years just to get Federal approval....I think they are trying to get through this as fast as possible to get the project started before they have to spend too much $ on interim repairs.
As I noted in another thread, any interchange changes would require either an IMR or IJR study....which would cost at least $1 million and add a few years to the review/approval calendar.
So start on the Overland Bridge as is and:
Get the rail up and running as a mitigating factor
+
Start an immediate study of a all new project to get access to this critical Southbank area from I-95 South. OCKLAWAHA
So when all this is said and done are there going additional lanes in that stretch? Or is this simply rebuilding everything the way it is now? Other than the bridge deterioration, I'm having trouble understanding what is suddenly such a huge problem. It would be nice to see them rebuild this to 4 lanes each way to ease some of the rush hour traffic.
in theory, they can't add capacity...what they are doing instead is adding lanes for maintenance-of-traffic that will become permanent...so at the end of the day, there will be 3 lanes southbound on mainline I-95 (instead of the 2 that exist now from Atlantic to south of US 1)
Ah okay, so will there be 3 regular lanes of traffic, or will there be 2 lanes plus 1 service lane?
Quote from: ralpho37 on April 27, 2009, 10:14:36 PM
Ah okay, so will there be 3 regular lanes of traffic, or will there be 2 lanes plus 1 service lane?
3 mainline thru lanes...plus additional lanes on the side collector-distributor road (the part that will provide access to San Marco/Atlangtic/Phillips)...best guess is there will be 6 total lanes...just like there are northbound (including the 3 lanes to downtown)
Quote from: stjr on April 27, 2009, 01:21:43 PM
It's a little hard to read the minute details of the photos here so please confirm the following will exist when all construction is finished:
The Main Street bridge ramp will, after combining with the Acosta Ramp still provide the ability to do ALL three of the following:
1. Exit to Beach/Atlantic
2. Exit to US 1
3. Enter I-95 Southbound
Will these exits mirror the current direct arrangements to #1 and #2 or will more twists/turns be added? How many lanes will exit I-95 in the new arrangement to feed 1 through 3 above. I am assuming I-95ers be able to rejoin I-95 at the ramp's end if they take this ramp in error or change their mind to exit assuming #3 is correct. Is this right?
Only the Acosta will provide direct access to Hendricks Ave. What are they thinking on the Main Street Bridge connection alternates? Do they involve upgrades or street reconfigurations? Where there many speakers to this at the hearing?
I appreciate Lake's response to the above but I still can't be sure of the answers. I can't tell if the purple pathway allows recombination with I-95 at the end of the ramp or are there dividers keeping traffic separate to the end? Nor can I easily tell what happens at the bottom of the ramp. Does it dump on US 1 and Atlantic/Beach as currently or is the pathway to either being changed? And, again, was their any public response to these changes or the Hendricks Avenue change? Thanks for a detailed answer. :)
Moon River Pizza.
Sorry...just had to do it.
LOL good for you now if we can just get rail involved
Quote from: cayohueso on April 28, 2009, 12:00:42 AM
Moon River Pizza.
Sorry...just had to do it.
Quote from: stjr on April 27, 2009, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: stjr on April 27, 2009, 01:21:43 PM
It's a little hard to read the minute details of the photos here so please confirm the following will exist when all construction is finished:
The Main Street bridge ramp will, after combining with the Acosta Ramp still provide the ability to do ALL three of the following:
1. Exit to Beach/Atlantic
2. Exit to US 1
3. Enter I-95 Southbound
Will these exits mirror the current direct arrangements to #1 and #2 or will more twists/turns be added? How many lanes will exit I-95 in the new arrangement to feed 1 through 3 above. I am assuming I-95ers be able to rejoin I-95 at the ramp's end if they take this ramp in error or change their mind to exit assuming #3 is correct. Is this right?
Only the Acosta will provide direct access to Hendricks Ave. What are they thinking on the Main Street Bridge connection alternates? Do they involve upgrades or street reconfigurations? Where there many speakers to this at the hearing?
I appreciate Lake's response to the above but I still can't be sure of the answers. I can't tell if the purple pathway allows recombination with I-95 at the end of the ramp or are there dividers keeping traffic separate to the end?
Traffic will reconnect like it does today. This will allow Main Street and Acosta Bridge drivers access to I-95 South.
QuoteNor can I easily tell what happens at the bottom of the ramp. Does it dump on US 1 and Atlantic/Beach as currently or is the pathway to either being changed?
The ramp's exits will stay the same.
QuoteAnd, again, was their any public response to these changes or the Hendricks Avenue change? Thanks for a detailed answer. :)
I had a few meetings scheduled that day so I did not stay for the public hearing.
All of images in the main article can be enlarged by clicking on them. Doing this should allow you to see the proposed improvements in better detail. Here is an enlarged image that better illustrates the west section of this project.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/519184183_5ittG-O.jpg)
We're looking at a total of a good 14 lanes when it all gets finished!
Wait, they're closing the FEC crossing beneath I95 by Baptist? I don't get it.
I think that photo is mismarked... I asked the same question in post #2 of this thread.
That's not the crossing at Prudential or San Marco, but the one on Gary, by the Eye Institute. Right now, after you cross that crossing, Gary goes to a dead end at a previously closed crossing, so it is just serving a vacant lot.
I realized I have a couple photos of the I-95 Overland Bridge as it stands today.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453505708_XfyHT-L-1.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453505044_2VFvn-L-1.jpg)
Wow! Look at all the transportation modes in that picture: cars, semis, JTA buses, FEC train, the Skyway (station).
Nice pictures, Lunican.
That's a nice picture for someone promoting the establishment of a multi modal transportation network.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453505044_2VFvn-L-1.jpg)
Uuumm... looking at this picture, can someone explain to me again how the $ky-high-way makes it to Atlantic and FEC or anywhere else on the southern side of I-95. Aside from a roller coaster dip to duck under I-95, it looks like the new hotels might have taken care of any further advancement unless someone plans to spend millions for a wacky end run. (Is the $ky-high-way supposed to squeeze between the hotels and the garage?)
Why did they build this station in the spot it's in? It looks like it's disconnected from everything around it - streets and their side walks, the garage (that's quite a nice walk from the car), the front facings of buildings.... Aside from some ardent riders coming from the garage, who else is using this station?
Is this the model for any proposed expansion? Boy, that will inspire confidence.
Just wanted to stir things up a little before bed time. Pleasant dreams.
The space behind the hotel building and the garage was left as wide as it is for the future plans of extending the Skywaste beyond the property.
That is a nice pic!!
STJR, REALLY? This is your Feint! Parry! Riposte!
The Skyway will go under the bridge the same way any other vehicle would, "IT WILL ROLL". BTW, that FEC train is the very reason why the Skyway to the west side of those tracks in San Marco at Atlantic will double, or tripple the ridership.That Skyway will be a hell of a lot cheaper to take over that track then one of the arterial roads.
OCKLAWAHA
This is actually a nice shot for showing how the skyway can be extended to Atlantic. The entire path can be seen.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 03, 2009, 12:11:24 AM
This is actually a nice shot for showing how the skyway can be extended to Atlantic. The entire path can be seen.
I drove down Kings Road tonight for a look-see.
For starters, it appears to me they will have to tear down the million dollar elevated walkway from the garage to extend the track (but what's a million here or there for our beloved $ky-high-way?). Do they build another station a few feet south of the present one to maintain access from the garage and the hotels? And, what would it have cost at the time, since it's supposed to be just a "roll" away, to have built the station at the garage on Day 1?
Going south from there, they will have to put a number of piers in a large retention pond after passing between the garage and hotel buildings.
A turn down Kings Road means either closing a lane to provide for piers, straddling the 4 lane road with giant supports, or acquiring quite a bit of right of way from the parking lots of all the businesses along the way (likely putting many of them out of business and killing off another street).
And, where is the end point? If the idea is to connect with the FEC RR at Kings Road and Atlantic, this is blocks away from the FEC tracks. So, does that put the endpoint on Kings Road? Where is the "interconnect" with FEC supposed to be? And, who loses their property to make it happen? It looks like other than businesses directly on Kings Road, it's mostly residential to the RR. Also, a station anywhere along Kings Road is hardly a walkable distance from San Marco shopping for most people (not to mention having to WALK over the FEC tracks along the way) . So, don't get any big ideas about riding from Riverside (more like Brooklyn) into the heart of San Marco for a quick bite.
Ock and Lake, fill us in. It's another $ky-high-way mystery to me.
I think $ky-high-way proponents need to put their textbooks down and go check out how people actually operate in the real world. I don't see many of their expectations for traffic being met by everyday humans.
Quote from: Jason on May 20, 2009, 10:45:15 AM
Wait, they're closing the FEC crossing beneath I95 by Baptist? I don't get it.
It is a little used crossing on a dead end road. Road runs parrellel to the I-95. It gets over come by the addition of the south bound lane. That I-95 lane, in this area, is elevated on dirt with retaining wall etc. The road serves some property owned by BMC, FEC and DOT. All will likely become a retention pond.
At my last discussion with FDOT they don't have the money approved yet so construction will likely be delayed.
They also have some neighborhood complaints about the reduction of parking under the I-95 at Hendricks and deletion of south bound exit to Hendricks.
Thanks for the info Overstreet!
Lunican, are those shots from San Marco Place?
They are from the Peninsula.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453485673_bAP5P-L-1.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453497512_X5kwq-L-1.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/RobertsFIRSTbirthday037.jpg)
Quote from: stjr on September 03, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 03, 2009, 12:11:24 AM
This is actually a nice shot for showing how the skyway can be extended to Atlantic. The entire path can be seen.
I drove down Kings Road tonight for a look-see.
For starters, it appears to me they will have to tear down the million dollar elevated walkway from the garage to extend the track (but what's a million here or there for our beloved $ky-high-way?). Do they build another station a few feet south of the present one to maintain access from the garage and the hotels? And, what would it have cost at the time, since it's supposed to be just a "roll" away, to have built the station at the garage on Day 1?
Going south from there, they will have to put a number of piers in a large retention pond after passing between the garage and hotel buildings.
A turn down Kings Road means either closing a lane to provide for piers, straddling the 4 lane road with giant supports, or acquiring quite a bit of right of way from the parking lots of all the businesses along the way (likely putting many of them out of business and killing off another street).
And, where is the end point? If the idea is to connect with the FEC RR at Kings Road and Atlantic, this is blocks away from the FEC tracks. So, does that put the endpoint on Kings Road? Where is the "interconnect" with FEC supposed to be? And, who loses their property to make it happen? It looks like other than businesses directly on Kings Road, it's mostly residential to the RR. Also, a station anywhere along Kings Road is hardly a walkable distance from San Marco shopping for most people (not to mention having to WALK over the FEC tracks along the way) . So, don't get any big ideas about riding from Riverside (more like Brooklyn) into the heart of San Marco for a quick bite.
Ock and Lake, fill us in. It's another $ky-high-way mystery to me.
I think $ky-high-way proponents need to put their textbooks down and go check out how people actually operate in the real world. I don't see many of their expectations for traffic being met by everyday humans.
Against my better judgement, as I fully expect another bucket of dirt in exchange for my thoughts. I will once again answer your questions. The images say it all. The MetroJacksonville map is from a rough image I drew on the JEDC site for MJ and my transit blog. As you can see there would be absolutely ZERO street running. Leaving the hotel it passes over the JEA facility, (yes there is RofW), to the west of the FEC, hence south to the blvd.
The two station renderings are thus: A very rough sketch of a layout for Atlantic at the FEC in San Marco, as well as a more refined rendering showing how the station would look from the old High School track, facing Southeast. (http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/streetcarbob2.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/SANMARCOATLANTICSTATION.gif)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/SkywayIntermodalStation-1.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/AtlanticStationCrossing.png)
OCKLAWAHA
(http://www.chaseproperties.com/images/kings_lg2.jpg)
In a full economic recovery, is there much more to come?
(http://ktransit.com/transit/NAmerica/ussouth/jacksonville/jax-mr-073102-16.jpg)
The intermodal station in an alley, but that's okay, because the parking lot for the station is inaccessible from any of at least 4 directions. Oops! Quotestjr
Do they build another station a few feet south of the present one to maintain access from the garage and the hotels? And, what would it have cost at the time, since it's supposed to be just a "roll" away, to have built the station at the garage on Day 1?
You have landed on one of the many points I fought over with JTA. Why in the >>>> did they:
1. build a garage that NO ONE on the freeway can get to.
2. Why, with the Overland Bridge Project didn't we find a way to access the hotel and garage, Kings Avenue in general and get it funded BEFORE we start rebuilding the damn thing, then do it all at once?
3. There is no logical reason for the Skyway to have stopped short of the planned garage, even back when the hotel was a vacant lot.
4. If the garage was not even on the radar then Why was the Skyway Station, properly designed to be intermodal, then stuffed behind a block of buildings?
5. This puts a future line south, in the position of stopping twice within a few hundred feet. This is not the Skyway's fault, it IS the fault of the planners.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two logical fixes, and only if the Federal Government funds at the promised 100% level for existing fixed rail transit:
Extend the line on to Atlantic, with the following features:
A dual side station at the new Hilton AND the garage, can you say, "1 mile of SINGLE TRACK...?" otherwise the divided track would have to be stacked with one level for each direction of travel.
At Atlantic, since it would be railroad right of way, get it down at street platform level so we could have across the platform transfers (like I have suggested before and stjr seems to like) at grade. I know it is a monorail, but if Disney in Tokyo can have an at grade station so can we! DITTO for ever other new end-point.
Lastly, to cure the frustration of constant stops at empty station platforms, installing an elevator style call button for each stop would make sense. The system in Morgantown W.VA. system uses this technology.
Fill every new station with lease space for unique retail and food outlets, hell I'll even open up a "Skyway Shop".
selling the models and the Tee Shirts and hats, to every Yankee that spots it from the freeway and takes a ride!
stjr? Want to partner with me? OCKLAWAHA
I will be the "home brew" vendor. That may boost ridership.
.....and can I get fed stimulus money to vend my home brew (since I will be selling on a public transit route) :)
Quote from: DavidWilliams on September 03, 2009, 10:05:26 PM
I will be the "home brew" vendor. That may boost ridership.
Hey it works for me!
Humm? Wonder what a Bourbon would taste like brewed with Florida Spring water?OCKLAWAHA
We can give it a "shot" Ock... ;)
This popped up today, all the more reason to get this on the fast track.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Large-hole-partially-closes-I-95/TW-ZvhMVyUKVGv9BdjuI0A.cspx
A large hole has shutdown I-95's southbound lanes in Jacksonville
(http://snapshot.metronetworks.com/jax/95S004.jpg)
I think that's the bugger there...
i wish i wish...when are we as a city going to get a break on construction. We just finished the bridge...now a mess until 2017...this is rediculous...i'm thinking of moving...this city is so backwards. There's nothing wrong with that section of the interstate and i feel it's a waist of money and time spend in traffic for another 5 years.
feel free to move....I'm not sure there are many other cities that don't have the construction problem....definitely none in Florida.
btw, that section of interstate is a bridge, built 50+ years ago....safety ratings show that it is deteriorating and needs to be replaced relatively soon.
understood.
parts of its system are failing.
HOWEVER, is it true that while an additional travel lane will be added to 95South through the project limits from beyond the San Marco exit over Prudential Dr. past the Atlantic/Beach exit and US1/PhilipsHwy at the expense of sacraficing direct access to Hendricks from Main St. bridge southbound out of Downtown as is currently provided with the present design?
IF so, this change sux!
I cannot grasp how planners and developers could make something smell like a rose but they instead leave it all stinkin like a pot o' shiz.
yes...it is true...but not because of the extra lane...because the current weave is unsafe...people crossing to get off I-95 @ Hendricks while others are crossing from the Acosta to get on 95.
also, keep in mind there is no direct access from Hendricks to the Main St Bridge going NB...we use Riverplace Blvd
I drove my motorcycle over that land bridge shortly after it opened and remember how thrilled I was and how modern I though Jacksonville was to have an elevated roadway like that.
How your perspective changes with time!
I-95 Overland Bridge construction hearing tonight:
4:30pm to 7:30pm
Aetna Building
841 Prudential Drive
Jacksonville, FL 32207