We have discussed the ideas of Communities of Place and Communities of Interest in other places on these forums.
If there is one thing that Springfield is missing is this concept. The idea that there is a meeting place for all the people and elements that live in and have common interests in the neighborhood.
San Marconians have The Square, which is a pretty accurate summation of the people who live in the area: posh little cafes, gourmet markets, a great place for chocolate, and a toney jeweler plus shops that sell the kinds of dresses that one sees the kind of women in San Marco wearing, a movie house that shows the kind of movies that the neighborhood likes, and a Theatre that draws people from all over the city.
In the cafes you can see the gracious old southern ladies, the up and coming hostesses, the bored debs, the gentle artsy non confrontational teens, the gay men and tasteful lesbians, the businessmen with yachts and the bookish literate types that live in the neighborhood.
There are several parks within walking distance.
The Square is where the neighborhood spends a whole hell of a lot of its time. Its like the community living room.
Five Points perfectly sums up its surrounding population.
Not a lot of red meat eaters in the neighborhood, therefore enough sushi to qualify it as a sushi district.
Cool shops to purchase pop culture items, trendy shops, and bicycle supplies. There are a couple of parks that create a free recreational area for people to hang out in within walking distance of the fast food and restaurants.
A couple of hipster bars, and a few serious drinking spots. A movie that shows the kinds of movies the neighborhood likes, and shops that sell the kinds of clothes that the kids who hang out in five points are likely to wear.
There are several coffeeshops and the streets are filled with the neighborhood hipsters, business people and hospital employees that populate the neighborhood. At night, the young professionals mix with the 20/30 something girls-night-out and dude crowd. Gay people everywhere with interesting peircings. In short, the kind of people who live in the neighborhood.
It too is like The Family Room for the entire district.
Now that Zorn has come to live with me and Im doing the parent thing, It has really crystallized for me that there isnt a similar area in the neighborhood. despite the physical environment already being in existence.
Main Street, dating from the days when it was still called Pine Street, was always designed to be the same kind of place for the uptown residents. There were soda shops, stores, bars (like the recently demolished silver dollar for example), parks and movie theaters that reflected who and what the neighborhood was.
But our living room is kind of a mess, and the entire extended family has been avoiding it for years.
Springfield has a very interesting - and difficult - problem with Main Street. Frankly, it should probably be a case study in urban planning programs. I'm unaware of other neighborhoods with such a striking problem.
You have a mostly suburban, demolished, ungentrified commercial district slicing through the middle of a mostly historic, intact, gentrifying residential district. The relative success of the residential areas has created insidious commercial speculation that has stalled main street's progress, and is now the single biggest hurdle to the residential area's continued gentrification.
I really don't see a way out for Springfield any time soon. The speculators want so much money, the only feasible way to buy them out is for a large "3rd and Main" type project. And it might be a while before real estate rebounds to the point where that becomes profitable. And then it would be several years more before proposed projects get completed.
It will be years before the majority of the car lots and vacant plots of land give way to new commercial projects. The key to Main Street, is the stretch between 9th and 5th. There are enough buildings and existing businesses in this stretch to create a vibrant business strip that has a unique sense of place within Jacksonville's urban environment. A good district to look at would be the Bardstown Road strip in Louisville, KY. The Highlands went through and has overcome many of the same issues that plague Springfield.
And some poodle took a big ol' dump right in the middle of the oriental rug.
Stephen,
With the vibe in Springfield having gotten well, whacked, it might be possible to move 60 blocks north to Panama Park/North Shore. Alls we need is to revitalize/knock down the strip-mall across from Carroll's Meat Market and to do something with the former Skinners (intersection of Pearl & Tallllullllah).
Far fewer buildings than Springfield & just as many parks + the Trout River.
I know it's about as possible as FBC letting go of the city, getting reliable public transit, and creating a vibrant and cohesive arts community -- but it would be cheaper than those three things. ..
Plus we have Doozer's ;)
Quote from: thelakelander on April 21, 2009, 10:05:17 AM
It will be years before the majority of the car lots and vacant plots of land give way to new commercial projects. The key to Main Street, is the stretch between 9th and 5th. There are enough buildings and existing businesses in this stretch to create a vibrant business strip that has a unique sense of place within Jacksonville's urban environment. A good district to look at would be the Bardstown Road strip in Louisville, KY. The Highlands went through and has overcome many of the same issues that plague Springfield.
Here are a few recent images of the Bardstown Road strip. Its about three miles in length and is filled with a number of uses in old and new buildings.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6462-p1070036.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3609-p1070040.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3608-p1070030.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3613-p1070044.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3616-p1070034.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3626-p1070029.jpg)
The fall and rise of the Bardstown Road commercial stripQuoteThe area would continue to thrive until the 1960s, when some of the wealthier residents left for the suburbs. The main business corridor along Bardstown Road suffered, with residents expressing serious concerns about its quality in 1974. Of particular concern was the neglected Mid-City Mall, with frequent complaints about crime and its deteriorated appearance due to lack of maintenance. Four neighborhood associations organized a boycott of the mall starting in February 1975, and partly as a result, foreclosure on the mall began in late 1976. It was placed in receivership in 1977, and the mall has been considerably improved in the following decades.[4]
The cooperation that led to the boycott created a strong community sentiment that the right changes could be made along the business corridor. Many older buildings had been razed already to make space for more modern fast-food restaurants and drive-in banks, and there was concern that nothing would remain eventually of the streetcar suburb era corridor. This led to the creation of the Highlands Commerce Guild in 1977.[4]
The Highlands area would begin to rebound commercially in the 1980s as antique shops and other "oddity" stores moved to Bardstown Road for the many vacant store fronts which were located right off the street and for the area's elegant architecture. Many young professionals were also attracted to the area for its location near downtown and amenities such as Cherokee Park and pedestrian-friendly shopping. By the early 1990s the area had become the city's main nightclub and upscale restaurant district, as well as the cultural center for the city's music and gay scene. Today many of its neighborhoods have among the highest percentage of college graduates and average income in Louisville.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Highlands_(Louisville)
Hold on. . .
overview (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=N+Pearl+St,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida&sll=30.42973,-81.496582&sspn=5.237104,9.887695&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FS5wzwEdXwQi-w&split=0&ll=30.385306,-81.656785&spn=0.002559,0.004828&t=h&z=18)
I can't pull up street view because my school lappy is nerfed.
anyway, if you look at the V made by tallulah and main street bordered by moncrief creek and the trout river you'll see where I'm talkin bout willis.
The houses are generally pristine and affordable -- seriously folks, anyone need an in great shape 4 bedroom 2 bath 2 story? You can have it for 107,000. It's two blocks from my house. I throw great parties :)
There are a combination of folks in the neighborhood. Four or five teachers & professors that I know of, etc. Joseph's Italian, Jackie's, and Doozers are on the West side. Carroll's etc are on the East side. With a produce market & real convenience store (instead of venial store) we'd be set (though we get all of our food through the organic co-op anyway. . .).
Thoughts, y'all?
I'll try to get some more pics this week. Anyway, y'all come up and buy some houses, y'hear?
Stephen, didn't you have a res on Main at several times. I understand the history of why 9th & main has been such a failure, but why did you move out of the living room before? I'm sure you had a good reason, but I've never been privy to the history of that.
There are so many reasons I can think of why Main has stagnated. It seems that each property has its own factors that contribute. Take the res at 5th & main (now the Mediterranean joint). As I understand it, the original guy who owned the place had a bad history with people in the neighborhood. So much so, that people wouldn't eat there because of it. When you're a local mom and pop, that's death to a business. Then the guy closed it down for like 8 months and when he reopened the food was meh and the service was awful. No wonder it never succeeded.
Now, I hear that the new place doesn't serve alcohol. Huh? I know he gave his reason as creating a family res, but every damn family res I know of serves alcohol expect maybe Chuck-E-Cheese. My girlfriend and I would love to eat there for dinner but she wants to enjoy a drink with dinner, so there's goes our business. We might be alone in this attitude, but I can only think that a restriction like this hurts your business.
BTW, I had so complaints when Boomtown returned to Main. The service was superb and I tried to eat there at least once a week.
Quote from: Deuce on April 21, 2009, 11:14:53 AM
There are so many reasons I can think of why Main has stagnated. It seems that each property has its own factors that contribute. Take the res at 5th & main (now the Mediterranean joint). As I understand it, the original guy who owned the place had a bad history with people in the neighborhood. So much so, that people wouldn't eat there because of it. When you're a local mom and pop, that's death to a business. Then the guy closed it down for like 8 months and when he reopened the food was meh and the service was awful. No wonder it never succeeded.
I remember when Jim opened that place. He tried to to compete with Worman's and invested a lot of money in baking equipment and focus on cakes and sweets with a limited menu. It was too early for that and he shut down and sold off a lot of that equipment at pennies on the dollar just to get it out of there an re-open.
After that, he just never stayed consistent long enough to get established. I'm sure there were people in Springfield that hated him (it's Springfield!) and he was not liked by the LOLAs. He also had staff embezzling issues. I think its a Springfield curse.
And now there's no place to get German chicken with peanut gravy.
In other news, your salad dressing is a constant hit.
Stephen,
I always thought that the property you held at the corner of 8th and Hubbard was a cool building. Didn't the city damage that beyond repair while doing road work?
If so, did they compensate you in any way?
Wow, that's a lot of history. It seems that there were a variety of factors that contributed to the loss of Boomtown as well. The underlying thread here seems to be greed. Not just in your experience but in other properties as well. So the same thing that's destroyed the whole country (practically), has played out in a microcosmic level on Main st.
Springfield is a like a Phoenix. I think that vibe will return. Already 3 layers seems to be fostering a lot of good will and other places are coming online in the future.
Stephen -- you can't forget the Coke. Coke played a pretty major factor in wrecking some (a lot) of those businesses. . .
Well, the Main St project would have ruined a lot anyway. let's hope we see some signs of life after this project nears completion.
Stephen, what about the 8th and Hubbard place?
True, and I guess you were near the corner with alley access to overcome the construction in the front door.
What about that other building though? And are you going to sell the lot or try to do something?
to address a previous posters point,
Waffa & Mike's doesn't serve alcohol for religious reasons.
they do plan to open an outdoor area with hooka in the next few months.
QuoteWaffa & Mike's doesn't serve alcohol for religious reasons.
Well, they just lost my business.
At least you have shanty right around the corner. What's the deal with Waffa & Mike's hours?
I had a flier saying they were open late on Friday & Saturdays, but I go up there around 9:30pm last Friday and they were closed.
Quote from: fsu813 on April 22, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
Waffa & Mike's doesn't serve alcohol for religious reasons.
Business is business. That's a terrible policy...
How about trying it at lunch instead of dinner? Can you settle for soda or tea at lunch?
Or, since that place is too small to eat in anyway, can't you get it to go and then booze it up at your house, if booze is so important?
I'm not saying booze is so important, you guys are going all moral here, and are totally missing the point...
Beer/Wine/Liquor is the single biggest profit item in a restaurant. The markups range from 100%-1000% depending on the price, and whether you're serving a mixed drink, wine, or bottled beer, etc. The average 1L bottle of vodka you get for $20-something serves around 23 mixed drinks at $6 or $7 apiece. Do the math, that's a 1000% profit.
Your normal 750ml bottle of low-end wine that you buy for $6 wholesale, will yield an average of 6 glasses at $6 or $6.50 apiece. That's a 600% profit.
They're already fighting an uphill battle because of their location, and now because they choose not to separate personal/religious issues and business (which is a CLASSIC stupid mistake), they're locked out of the single biggest revenue-generator. I am not arguing morality or whether people *should* be drinking (because that isn't my place and nor is it yours), I'm just saying that as a business decision it's pretty silly...
Sorry, the logic doesn't hold up.
I mean hell, hookers and crack have pretty awesome mark-ups as well -- and it's free to grow pot. With JSO being more and more poorly paid, it can't be that difficult to bribe up the local beat cops and have a nice little den of iniquity going.
I mean, heck, you could even make enough to have a few lawyers and a judge or two on the payroll -- so even if you got caught you could get off on a technicality.
I mean, great idea, right?
Quotetotally missing the point...
Is a common malady on this site... ::)
Actually I was talking to Deuce and no moral quandry was involved. Instead of totally writing the restaurant off, try it at lunch when his girlfriend may not want to have wine anyway. And gwpalmer, the restaurant is not so small that you can't eat in it. Its got at least 7 booths and a few tables.
I know, I've been there. They have excellent food -- but it is too small to eat in. Unless they make some sort of excellent patio they might as well just throw up a drive-through window.
And gwpalmer was my father. . .
Actually, they are in the process of building a patio in the outdoor space behind the restaurant.
There is great space back there and the previous owner had tables, water garden, and small bandstand. But the flooring was poorly done and nothing was level. I hope they are doing it right.
Polk county --
That's good news. As I said, I ate there recently (last weekend) and the food was great. Best falafel we'd ever had.
What are Wafa & Mikes hours?
Wafaa & Mikes is open until 10am - 9pm on weekdays now, possibly later on weekends....i'm not sure.
I had the steak philly last night. huge & very good....they certainly don't skimp on portions.
That looks great! It's a huge improvement over what was there.
It does look like a huge improvement out back. They should paint murals on those walls. The front of the store still looks a little meh. The lettering on the windows is a bit tacky.
Quote from: gmpalmer on April 23, 2009, 08:11:36 AM
Sorry, the logic doesn't hold up.
I mean hell, hookers and crack have pretty awesome mark-ups as well -- and it's free to grow pot. With JSO being more and more poorly paid, it can't be that difficult to bribe up the local beat cops and have a nice little den of iniquity going.
All this time I’ve been going to bars and restaurants that serve alcohol I could have been getting hookers and crack as well!?!
I’ve been sorely missing out.
Quote from: gmpalmer on April 23, 2009, 08:11:36 AM
Sorry, the logic doesn't hold up.
I mean hell, hookers and crack have pretty awesome mark-ups as well -- and it's free to grow pot. With JSO being more and more poorly paid, it can't be that difficult to bribe up the local beat cops and have a nice little den of iniquity going.
I mean, heck, you could even make enough to have a few lawyers and a judge or two on the payroll -- so even if you got caught you could get off on a technicality.
I mean, great idea, right?
My logic holds up fine.
And I can't believe you're comparing having a beer with dinner, to hookers and hash. LOL.
Just a
bit of a stretch, no?