(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/75056/thumbs/s-TRAINS-large.jpg)
Rail Here. Rail Now.
The President is calling for an immediate rollout of a national high speed rail system.
Awesome.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/obama-highspeed-rail-syst_n_187684.html
Quote
WASHINGTON â€" President Barack Obama is calling for the country to move swiftly to a system of high-speed rail travel, saying it will relieve congestion, help clean the air and save on energy.
Appearing with Vice President Joe Biden and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood Thursday, Obama said the country cannot afford not to invest in a major upgrade to rail travel. He said he understands it necessarily will be "a long-term project" but said the time to start is now.
Obama said that "this is not some fanciful, pie-in-the-sky vision of the future. It's happening now. The problem is, it's happening elsewhere." He cited superior high-speed rail travel in countries like China, Japan, France and Spain.
Obama said the rail upgrades are critically needed because the nation's highways and airways "are clogged with traffic."
There is one problem. Let say I take the train from here to Houston..... What will I do once I get there.. I would still need a car. European cities are build so you don't need a car.. it just isn't the case here in most cities (excluding some in the northeast)
Besides the problem.. I am a big fan of investing in infrastructure because it creates real jobs and there is a real "product" when the job is done.
Quote from: Beloki on April 16, 2009, 01:12:17 PM
There is one problem. Let say I take the train from here to Houston..... What will I do once I get there.. I would still need a car. European cities are build so you don't need a car.. it just isn't the case here in most cities (excluding some in the northeast)
I think the goal is to invest in viable sustainable travel alternative to auto transit. Right now, we don't have anything in place that truly gives people an option. If you want to travel to a sprawling gated community in the burbs, things may get complicated. However, if your destination is in the city (In Houston's case, the Inner Loop), you then transfer to the Metrorail light rail system.
Keep in mind, intercity rail is only a part of overall integrated transportation network, not the end all solution. Cities like Jax are going to have to step up to the table and invest in rail locally. If not, they may end up like Cedar Key, when they ran Henry Plant and his railroad off to Tampa.
QuoteAfter the war, Henry Plant considered building his railroad to Cedar Key, but he couldn’t reach a satisfactory agreement with the town and decided to lay tracks to Tampa instead. This sealed the fate of Cedar Key. With a larger, deep-water port and a new railroad at Tampa, Cedar Key quickly began its decline.
http://www.bansemer.com/florida_lighthouses/cedar_key_lighthouse.htm
As for Obama's speech, I believe we're better off investing in upgrading and improving existing rail corridors first, instead of worrying about rail systems running +300 mph. Luckily, that's apart of their plans to some degree.
Quote from: Beloki on April 16, 2009, 01:12:17 PM
There is one problem. Let say I take the train from here to Houston..... What will I do once I get there.. I would still need a car. European cities are build so you don't need a car.. it just isn't the case here in most cities (excluding some in the northeast)
What do you do if you fly or ride the Greyhound bus to Houston? You still rent a car.
Quote from: Beloki on April 16, 2009, 01:12:17 PM
There is one problem. Let say I take the train from here to Houston..... What will I do once I get there.. I would still need a car. European cities are build so you don't need a car.. it just isn't the case here in most cities (excluding some in the northeast)
quick answer...you rent a car....most big train stations have car rental places built in...just like at airports!
On it's face, I agree with the rail proposal put forth by LaHood and the Obama administration.
The biggest problem in my eyes is that it's pathetically two-faced to embark on such a great project while simultaneously undercutting it with yet more massive highway spending. If the government keeps pumping money into highway expansion (which isn't needed for a damn thing other than more sprawl) it's just going to make all this rail even less viable.
As the report itself indicated - this proposal only targets trips between 100-600 miles. That's still prime competition for auto travel. The government shouldn't be so heavily subsidizing BOTH.
I guess this is their plan.
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/images/rail_map_blog.jpg)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/04/16/A-Vision-for-High-Speed-Rail/
QuoteThe President is calling for an immediate rollout of a national high speed rail system.
Well, there is Social Security, Medicare, Healthcare, and now rail care?
High Speed rail will have to wait its turn in Congress. Amtrak just got a billion dollars, and it will last them 1 year, before they squander it as well. At least with the airlines, they paid back the money they were loaned after 9/11, Amtrak is that giant sucking noise you hear out of Congress.
Amtrak would be better off selling the routes that are not profitable and letting private market forces compete for that business. Amtrak makes good money on the NE Corridor route, let it focus on what it does best, sell the rest.
Where are all the pundits who care about SPEND, SPEND, SPEND here? Anyone care that their kids, kids, kids, kids, kids won't have a penny to their names with all this spending, or are we living in Fantasyland?
I would also suggest that we sell the interstate highway routes that are not profitable. Let the private market take that over as well.
Why wasn't this in the "stimulus" bill???
Rather than a bunch of BS pork, this is the type of spending that I'll agree with if you insist on spending.
Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2009, 01:06:16 PM
Rail Here. Rail Now.
The President is calling for an immediate rollout of a national high speed rail system.
Awesome.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/obama-highspeed-rail-syst_n_187684.html
RAIL HERE. RAIL NOW.Here is the continuation:
QuoteThe governors of eight Midwest states wrote Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood this week appealing for money for the region, one of the hardest hit by the recession.
Howard Learner, president of the Chicago-based Environmental Law and Policy Center, a group promoting the rail network, said that with about $2 billion of the stimulus money they could complete or upgrade lines linking Chicago with St. Louis, Detroit and Milwaukee-Madison.
"It's a way of solving our global warming problems that also creates jobs and provides a boost to the economy," he said.
But the competition will be fierce.
"We are very jazzed about it," said Karen Parsons, executive director of the Southern High-Speed Rail Commission. She said preliminary numbers showed that they could increase capacity and speed on the existing New Orleans-Baton Rouge line for about $150 million to $200 million, and for $500 million they could expand service from New Orleans to Mobile, Ala.
Mehdi Morshed, executive director of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, said his state has a plan to build 800 miles of track for trains running 220 mph, at a cost of about $45 billion. He said the state may ask for about $4 billion from the federal government to work on lines between San Francisco and San Jose and Los Angeles and Anaheim.
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said in a statement that his state leads others because voters last November approved nearly $10 billion in state bonds for high-speed rail. "With a boost from our federal partners, nearly 40 million Californians and millions of travelers from around the world will be able to experience the reality of America's first high-speed rail system."
Chris Lippincott, spokesman for the Texas Department of Transportation, said his office was excited about advancing plans to build high-speed lines from San Antonio to Dallas and then up to Little Rock and Tulsa. But he added that the "nation's rail needs will exceed a single injection of money," citing estimates that just staying even with current level of congestion in his state will cost $313 billion over the next 20 years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/obama-highspeed-rail-syst_n_187684.html
So where is Florida Governor Crist, and the FDOT?
The word is out to kill anything that "competes" for attention,......with Sunrail.
QuoteU.S. Rep. John Mica Says Florida Is Not Ready For High Speed Rail
Thursday, February 26, 2009
By: David Pitman
February 26, 2009 -- The Florida High Speed Rail Authority will meet today in Orlando for the first time in almost four years. The authority will begin putting together a proposal to get its hands on some of the $8 billion in federal stimulus money that's been set aside for high-speed rail. One U.S. lawmaker who's been a huge proponent of rail projects -- both commuter and high-speed -- is Republican Congressman John Mica of Winter Park. But it turns out he's not so fired up about spending that money for a system in Florida.
http://www.wmfe.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9279
The opportunity is knocking, Does anyone know what the Mayer's stance on this is ?
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 17, 2009, 02:31:40 AM
At least with the airlines, they paid back the money they were loaned after 9/11, Amtrak is that giant sucking noise you hear out of Congress.
I wonder what would happen if cities didn't pay for airport terminals....or if there weren't rental car taxes, departure fees, and concession fees....think the airlines could handle it all on their own?
Quote from: Sigma on April 17, 2009, 09:13:43 AM
Why wasn't this in the "stimulus" bill???
Rather than a bunch of BS pork, this is the type of spending that I'll agree with if you insist on spending.
it was...there was $8 billion dedicated....which is about 15% of all the $ set aside for transportation
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 17, 2009, 02:31:40 AM
QuoteThe President is calling for an immediate rollout of a national high speed rail system.
Well, there is Social Security, Medicare, Healthcare, and now rail care?
High Speed rail will have to wait its turn in Congress. Amtrak just got a billion dollars, and it will last them 1 year, before they squander it as well. At least with the airlines, they paid back the money they were loaned after 9/11, Amtrak is that giant sucking noise you hear out of Congress.
Amtrak would be better off selling the routes that are not profitable and letting private market forces compete for that business. Amtrak makes good money on the NE Corridor route, let it focus on what it does best, sell the rest.
Where are all the pundits who care about SPEND, SPEND, SPEND here? Anyone care that their kids, kids, kids, kids, kids won't have a penny to their names with all this spending, or are we living in Fantasyland?
ROFLMAO! You have such a twisted logic in your sense of humor that it's golden, you really ought to go on the air after Rush. How funny.
I'm not a fan of the HSR plans either, frankly you and I both saw what decent rail passenger service once was, and no postal service imitation is going to impress us.
The line about the airlines having paid back all their money and Amtrak hasn't is classic. We both know that it DOES cost us $30 dollars (in federal subsidy) for every Amtrak Ticket sold. We both know that we had to bail out a number of big air carriers who thought they go the route of the Rock Island or Milwaukee Road. But we also know that neither the Rock Island, or Milwaukee Road was important to this nation to keep em rolling.
To someone sitting on the side lines, it looks like $30 dollars a pop for train tickets seems pretty steep, but what Mtrain or myself are NOT telling you is that it cost us $40 - $600 dollars for every airline passenger that buys a ticket. This is an indirect subsidy so it NEVER has to be paid back!
The thought that Obama might level the field, scares the highway and airline guys to death.OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 17, 2009, 09:52:09 PM
The thought that Obama might level the field, scares the highway and airline guys to death.
That's obvious. However, its a refreshing breath of air to me. ;D