I was asked to join the Springfield Historic Area Restoration and Preservation (SHARP) group last night.
Its a group that wants to either replace or reenergize the original mission of SPAR.
Its dedicated to the Historic preservation of the neighborhood as well as its adaptive reuse along sustainability policy.
Architecturally, Preservation is their highest priority followed by Restoration, followed by Renovation, followed by Infill. They are against any more structures being demolished to make way for the developer driven infill projects.
They are also committed to the cultural preservation of the entire history of the neighborhood, including its upper class white, blue collar, Jewish, African American and ghetto years. (which I think is awesome btw) There was even the suggestion of a museum or landmark dedicated to the 70s on 8th and Main.
They are asking for input and are adamant about not being dominated by commercial interests.
Has anyone else got the invitation?
Wow. who are they outreaching to? this is the first I have heard of it and I live in Springfield. In a small ONH house.....
1) how is their mission any different from SPAR's?
2) what do you mean by "developer driven infill projects", when refering to demolishing old homes ?
I'm curious......
I'd be willing to donate an 8track and some tapes to the ultra retro, sounds cool not really 70's museum along with some homemade buck.
This is also the first I've heard of it.....like someone else asked...whom are they asking to join, other that you, Stephen?
I've never heard of this either. Who is officially representing this SHARP group, Stephen?
Hmmmm
you still haven't responded to our questions.... :-\
Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2009, 06:23:00 PM
they would be freer to pass protection ordinances.
We actually have protection ordinances. They just need to be enforced.
Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2009, 06:20:35 PMoops. sorry. I don't know who else has been asked as the group has only just started forming. Im not one of the 'insiders' so....
My post was actually an inquiry to find out if anyone else knew more about the group.
The couple that asked me has asked me not to reveal them on this board yet as they are a little worried about being sabotaged in their personal lives.
This, I believe...and it's something that has been a concern for others....
Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2009, 06:41:51 PM
what is homemade 'buck'?
Homemade alcohol made from fermented food. At least that's what it means in prisons. Supposedly very disgusting, if you drink it, you HAVE to be a serious alcoholic.
Does SPAR have connections to FBC?
QuoteAnything I missed?
Yes you did:
How about the City controlling ALL permitting in your historic district? That means that all doors, windows, roofs, power, plumbing, AC, wiring must be permitted in your "historic district".
How about restricting the color you can paint your exterior? How about restricting fences on corners of properties next to streets? How about the issue that you MUST get the city to sign off on allowing any work to be done to the outside of your house, and if you do something without their approval, they can go after you with Code Enforecement and make your life miserable.
SHARP would be a nightmare for most residents, and you would have code enforcement out looking at everything. You may like it now, but remember, once its in, you can't get rid of it.
Anyone that is truly interested in preservation might want to show up at the monthly HPC hearing. I always hear people complaining about the demos but month after month code enforcement asks to have properties placed on the formal demolition track and nobody shows up to speak against them. JBM, who can't make the meetings due to work sent a letter in last month that helped save a house near her. The April hearing is next Wednesday. It starts at 3 but lasts for hours.
How is the permitting currently done? I just remember hearing about all these permits and certificates you need to get work done. I never cared and we've never gone through spar with any of our repairs. Although I do remember someone on the spar board once talking about how they liked to cruise through the neighborhood and report houses with non-historical windows. I thought that was adorable.
My name is Larry Smallwood, just to let people know. This year I have stated to Spar and other groups that I am going to start Springfield the Heart Of Jacksonville program. I am a local 30 plus years working in and around springfield. Like many of you I have heard stories of redevelopment of this area for years. I am tired of them and I am currently in the process of changing that.The permitting, code enforcement and other activities aid home owners, but the system has flaws no one is perfect.This is about all I will say today, I have a lot of work to . Have A Great Day
Wow Larry, that's like a hit and run in the forum world. There are a lot of Springfielders on these boards like myself who would be interested to know more.
This is a serious question......
1) What kind of things does SPAR support that some people, the founders of SHARP I assume, do not support? Anyone have an example or two? I'm trying to see the difference between the two....
Thanks!
Quote from: thekillingwax on April 17, 2009, 05:43:48 AM
How is the permitting currently done? I just remember hearing about all these permits and certificates you need to get work done. I never cared and we've never gone through spar with any of our repairs. Although I do remember someone on the spar board once talking about how they liked to cruise through the neighborhood and report houses with non-historical windows. I thought that was adorable.
SPAR has nothing to do with permiting. They have no authority regarding construction or design issues. Springfield and Riverside/Avondale are recognized national and local historic districts that fall under the secretary of the interior's guidelines. At least I think that's the correct governing authority. All construction including window replacement is dictated by the building dept. who you don't want to mess with especially now that construcion is slow and they have more time on their hands. I came home last year to find a building inspector in front of my house who wanted to site me for building a pergola in my back yard. The planning dept. has an inspector that drives around Springfield, Riverside and Avondale looking for violations.
This is true. I had to get the OK to build a shed in my backyard from the City not SPAR. I called SPAR and was referred to the city.
This is great news!
I hope the preservation mission is not just one of opposition to demolition, but is driven by fundraising and marketing to potential buyers/rehabbers so some of these homes actually get restored. If the mission is just to oppose demolition without a solution to jumpstart restoration, SHARP may want to further develop how mission success will be measured.
GOOD LUCK SHARP!!!
1) What kind of things does SPAR support that some people, the founders of SHARP I assume, do not support? Anyone have an example or two? I'm trying to see the difference between the two....
we don't even know who the members are yet....seems that most of us Springfielders haven't heard anything about it yet....so I'd like to know that, as well as what differences they have as a goal(s) that differs from spar
They are against any more structures being demolished to make way for the developer driven infill projects.
Code Word for SRG. Stephen Why don't you take your fight to the Historic Preservation Commission? They are the governing body that approves any demolision in Springfield. Not SPAR.
What happened to diversity and inclusiveness?
Good Mourning Springfield.
Just to help with some questions that need some answers.
1. The reason for the historical department is to keep the historical fabric of the area in tack. Mr. McEachin job is to not remove any houses at all, and to aid the residents in rehabbing their property.
2. Code enforcement which is a city agency has the mission to keep properties safe and that repairs meet health and safety codes, yards cut etc. However when some of these houses that have been sitting so long that they have them on the demo list. Some of them for years so the city after long periods of time bring them down.
3. Building department is responsible for all building and remolding , fences yard buildings etc. They must meet codes and regulations. Most of these items are put in place by insurance companies.
Each one has a job and responsibilities and a point of view.
QUESTION ? The history of Jacksonville and springfield is getting lost who is going to bring our past to life?
Answer You the people, get active with any organization
This city has a major problem NO VISION
Have a Great Day
QuoteCode Word for SRG
Enumerate please! It is my understanding that SRG has done their building on empty lots, that they have not torn anything down. I saw the lot before my house was built, empty. Every house that I've watched go up, empty lots. So please provide a list of all historical properties that have been torn down for their apparently horrible infill development.
QuoteId prefer hardworking people any day over a preponderance of people who simply want to drop 300k on a house, shop outside of the neighborhood and make everyone else miserable all day. (referring to a few of the pointlessly uppity residents---not SPAR)
Them's fighting words. I am one of those uppity people who dropped over 300k on a house. Does paying more for a home make me non-hardworking? I have a job like everyone else and work hard to bring home the bacon (I just bring home a few more strips). I do everything possible to keep my dollars in the neighborhood. I've tried shopping at the downtown Winn-Dixie and I always ate at whatever res. permutation was at 9th and main. Yes, I'm uppity, so I want to spend my money at upscale stores, restaurants. As those come to the hood, they'll get my money.
I'm curious to know whose lives I've made miserable by all this. I've contributed money to SPAR, the dog park, other funds. I maintain my house and I'm constantly improving upon it. I clean up trash on my street and in my alley. I don't have a dog that craps in other people's yards (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4840.msg74524/topicseen.html#new (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4840.msg74524/topicseen.html#new)). I was about to go through the motions to get on the code enforcement board before they were abolished. The only thing I haven't done to improve the neighborhood is physically devote my time to the organizations and improvement efforts, but that's coming.
Love him, hate him, or just want your money back from him: Stephen Dare continues to confound - and inspire - Jacksonville.
For the past 20 years, Stephen Dare's projects have followed a reliable pattern: grandiose expectations, scaled-back reality, eventual debt. Gifted with an orginal turn of mind and a storyteller's ability to mesmerize, Dare has inspired others to believe in his ablity to breathe life into Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods. But his critics paint him as a con artist and a cheat. and many who've worked closely with him contend Stephen Dare's main project is to promote Stephen Dare.
oh gimme a break. Mr. Dare & co just has a different vision than others. just because things haven't worked out in the past as he'd like doesn't mean it's been a malicious attempt to con anyone. he's very educated on this area.
i don't agree with him on everything thing he throws out there, but he is a very talented guy and whatever orgnaziation or business he lends his time to will benefit.
just for the record, i think SRG has been very good for the neighborhood....and i don't care if they've demolished a few deteriorating historical houses in the process. historic houses in the area are not on anyones endangered list. i wouldn't be living in the area if SRG hadn't spent a whole lot of time and money improving it and bringing high value homes into the area. and i can't even afford one, rather i live in a very old house.
Quote from: fsu813 on April 20, 2009, 11:20:54 AM
oh gimme a break. Mr. Dare & co just has a different vision than others. just because things haven't worked out in the past as he'd like doesn't mean it's been a malicious attempt to con anyone. he's very educated on this area.
Same argument can be said for Craig Van Horne, but that doesn't stop Stephen Dare from a one-sided slander of the man on this forum. Therefore, it's only fair to invite MR. Van Horne to join the group!
eh, no thanks.
:D
I thought we were discussing the goals/concerns that may differ between this new group and spar....seems we've drifted off that path. If that discussion is over with, then it would seem that one more thread is lost
A new preservation group to replace SPAR has been discussed for years. It seems to circle around every now and then. The last time I heard of a group working to form more of an HOA, but nothing ever came of it.
It appears that SRG owns SPAR now - for example, SPAR not long ago would block covert attempts to destroy historic homes. Now, it appears that they do little to stand in the way. Am I wrong?
On the flip side, I think SRG has accomplished what few others would have attempted and the neighborhood is years ahead of where it could be.
How about throwing a Springfield Tea Party to voice your grievances with SPAR?
Just to remind some of what SPAR Council has been and has become.
Beginning at the very first SPAR Council board meeting after the merger of SPAR and HSCC, Louise DeSpain began allowing SRG and it’s employees or, at least, employees of companies it does business with, to have great influence over the decisions that SPAR Council made on behalf of the community. This still continues to some extent today. A good move on SRG’s part, but not necessarily good for the long term health of the community.
SRG has successfully gotten various partners, employees or people who work closely with them on various city and local boards and committees. These committees and boards, like the Planning Commission, often help set policy on what is allowed and what is not. Or what is enforced and what is not. The latest addition to this group is a member on the Historic Commission. At one time, this same person was on a board that helped decide whether home owners were fined or not for issues with condemned houses in Springfield. It does seem like this is about the same time as the trend of demo rather than save began. Again, not saying SRG did anything wrong, but one should and can question whether what is good for SRG is always good for this community.
Currently, it appears that SRG has lost or at least is losing some of it’s influence over SPAR Council. This has allowed what may be a shift in control of SPAR Council to someone else. This control is not going back to the community, but some other person of influence. I say this because we now have a community/ membership based organization being run by an executive committee that has shown that it can’t even follow the by-laws they themselves wrote and approved. This is very indicative of an organization or at least a group within the organization having “sold out†to some outside influence. SRG has never been fond of saving the rest of the houses and there is no guarantee the next “person of influence†will either.
The most important asset this community has is it’s houses. Losing any of them is a crime. An organization that effectively has allowed it to happen should be ashamed of themselves. The houses themselves are why the vast majority of the people are here. Not a new 2006 house, not the empty lots, not the forgotten new foundations, but the old houses. Without the old houses, the new houses would have never been built here, without the grand 100 year old staircase, the people would not be here and without the people, SPAR Council would not be here. The current Executive Committee has forgotten that.
A new organization is perhaps what is needed.
Thanks Strider,
I think that sums up what most people need to know before moving forward anyway. And a good point - new leadership does not guarantee any changes.
i don't think there is any realistic worry that SRG will knock down or influnce others to approve the knockdown of most of the unrenovated houses left. There are plenty and i'm guessing only the very bad ones will be knocked down.
just my opinion
Quote from: fsu813 on April 22, 2009, 03:54:59 PM
i don't think there is any realistic worry that SRG will knock down or influnce others to approve the knockdown of most of the unrenovated houses left. There are plenty and i'm guessing only the very bad ones will be knocked down.
just my opinion
Oh, I don't think you want to go there! How long have you been in Springfield?
btw...I think Deuce is a great neighbor
All one has to do is review several of the other threads on the subject of saving or losing the various historic homes in Springfield and one can see that there are basically two current schools of thought. One is that all of the old homes deserve to be saved no matter what and the other, the one that has been winning lately, is that an empty lot is much better. SRG seems to prescribe to the latter. One of the most recent appointments to the Historic Commission has publicly stated in the past that most of the remaining houses do not have enough historic fabric left to justify saving them. While many will criticize me for what I am saying, the current SPAR Council has helped eliminate more houses than it has helped saved in the past 5 to 8 years. Perhaps they have spoken out for saving the houses, but too many good, solid houses are gone for anyone not to suspect that any attempts at saving those houses was nothing but a smoke screen and that SPAR Council prescribes to the idea that that new empty lot looks better than that old empty house. I have said time and time again that what SRG has done, is doing, is not wrong for them, but this community should be considering if the long term goals of SRG or any developer, and now, SPAR Council, is what is best for Springfield long term.
strider,
in your opinion.....what are the long-term goals of SRG and what is long-term affect on the area if they reach their goal?
Good Mourning Jacksonville,
Shall we stay on subject, Please ,all organizations change over time. Any and all organizations, groups or individuals are welcome. The net result is a strong community with people that care. Communities die one house and one block at a time and they come back one house and one block at a time. Remember the most important thing is that the individual home owners are the Heart Of Springfield.
Quote from: stephendare on April 20, 2009, 04:25:41 PM
Im supposed to be getting a mission statement and an email address to post for interested parties sometime later on today. Ill post it when I get it.
It's been a few days now. Is this still forthcoming ?
Well said smallwood. Thanks for the props Dan! I think you're a great neighbor too.
Even if SRG is guilty of having torn down some savable homes, on the whole what they have done is enormous. In areas that they have clustered their homes, other folks have rehabbed the nearby properties that might have eventually been torn down. One could argue that more properties have been saved as a result of their efforts. At this point in their development, they aren't tearing down houses. They have plenty of empty lots to build on for the next 5 years or more.
Back to the thread at hand: My gf and I are skeptical about another committee in the neighborhood. How many do we need?
how about a Springfield Florida State Seminoles club? that sounds good to me . . . .
^^I might join that one! :-)
QuotePosted by: fsu813
strider,
in your opinion.....what are the long-term goals of SRG and what is long-term affect on the area if they reach their goal?
Let's face it, the long term goals of SRG are to be successful selling it's houses, and perhaps, developing it's commercial interests. On the surface, one can easily say they match, or at least mesh well with the goals of the residents to have a prosperous and safe community. To be honest, the long term goal of SRG should matter to no one but SRG. They are a for profit company and as such, are actually only concerned for their own profits. That does not say that SRG has not done a lot of good for this community nor does it say that any of the principles do not care for Springfield. Just that a for profit company can not nor should not be the primary leader or "power" that leads this community forward. For every good thing that has come from SRG, one can find a negative. SRG does not like the old empty houses. It isn't the lots they are after, but rather a look they prefer over the boarded up and "broken" house. A negative from SRG. It is also within their right to feel that way. If Springfield turns around and things begin selling again, then will SRG stay or cash out? We don't know. Nor should we care. They should only be a small part of what makes Springfield good and successful. Some have put SRG "up there" and that can be dangerous. Perhaps not by design, but just dangerous by fate.
Frankly, if SRG were to be 100% successful, 90% of the residents would like the new, old style looking area we would have. Only a relative few of us would truly miss the 30% to 40% of the old homes and commercial buildings that were lost along the way.
But the point here is that SRG is not the real problem. They can only be used as an example of how a developer that seems to do mostly good can also be part of the problem. The worst problem right now is a community organization that has stated it no longer is worrying about the historic houses as a primary mission. It is now a commercial development organization and does not have to listen to any of it's membership or anyone in the community at all for the matter. That is why something else must be done. It may be what Smallwood is going to propose, we will have to wait and see.
The healthier we can make the neighborhood in the short term will determine what happens in the future. Thank goodness there is still a lot of rehabbing and new construction going on which means the neighborhood is still moving forward. The last thing we want is for development to stagnate. Mack has said to me many times that if you're not changing you are dying and I have found that to be true. Sometimes I would love to lay back and not have to fight so hard for Springfield but I know it is something I can't afford to do at this time. I feel this economy has been good for Springfield in many ways. When people were asking upwards of 150k for condemned houses with no historic fabric left, I was realistic enough to know that most of the bad ones were not going to get rehabbed. Now with the prices getting lower people have an incentive to rehab the worst ones and can afford to do it, so I think the historic homes stand a much better chance today than they did 2 or 3 years ago. It's a catch 22. I was glad when the prices were so high because I thought it would get the flippers and shoddy rehabbers out but it also kept new homeowners away. We've got the best possible situation now. Homeowners can afford to buy and rehab and banks won't lend money to investors and flippers. I hate to lose old houses as much as anyone but the long term holding and neglect was not working either and hopefully the teardowns have gotten people outraged enough to demand more action from the city. The demos have gotten the attention of the historic commission and we are moving forward to try and come up with a solution other than demolition now or demolition by neglect which are the only options the city has at this time.
Quote from: Springfield Girl on April 24, 2009, 10:33:32 AM
demolition now or demolition by neglect which are the only options the city has at this time.
Doesn't Sec 307.110 already provide the means to prevent demolition by neglect ? Seems to me the city already has more options, but decides not to use them.
Alex, you're right and we want the city to get more proactive.
How about this idea?
Battered U.S. cities buy foreclosed homes to rebuild
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE53N14K20090424
Quote from: AlexS on April 24, 2009, 11:00:27 AMQuote from: Springfield Girl on April 24, 2009, 10:33:32 AMdemolition now or demolition by neglect which are the only options the city has at this time.
Doesn't Sec 307.110 already provide the means to prevent demolition by neglect ? Seems to me the city already has more options, but decides not to use them.
That's the main problem, the city won't do what's right, they seem too content with allowing the demos to continue with no desire to preserve the historical value and integrity. The city does indeed, have options...but fail to use them
Quote from: fsu813 on April 23, 2009, 12:31:52 PM
how about a Springfield Florida State Seminoles club? that sounds good to me . . . .
(http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_244000/DS_244458_s.jpg)
Whatever happened to the new organization ? Or was it all just a rumor ?
Quote from: fsu813 on April 23, 2009, 12:31:52 PM
how about a Springfield Florida State Seminoles club? that sounds good to me . . . .
I think they already have one and they ususally meet around 11pm near the corner of 8th and Boulevard.