This likely has no application to Jax, but I'm just curious:
When studying public transit, is a distinction ever made between choice riders who own personal automobiles but choose transit for a particular trip versus those who have the means to own personal automobiles but forgo such a purchase to rely solely on transit? Or are all choice riders lumped together as being people who don't "need" public transportation but choose it anyway?
It seems to me it would make a difference. My first example of choice riders, it appears, seek mass transit in large part out of convenience, whereas the latter group might be driven by more of a financial motivation, although they should still very much fall under the choice ridership label.
It also seems as if it would be harder to lure choice riders from the first group (ie, convincing people to get out of their own cars) but it's harder for the second group to even exist (would have to be in a dense, walkable neighborhood, that is not isolated from the rest of the world).
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transporte%20Bus%20Truck%20HIGHWAY/8-11-08048-1.jpg)
JTA'S MOTOR COACH SUCCESS, Time to ramp it up.
Give the credits where they're due, JTA, FDOT, SUNBUS (St. Augustine), etc... all count CHOICE RIDERS as their number one target market. The fact that we often don't experience it, and thus don't see it, doesn't mean they are not on top of this.
For example we met with the JTA executives and planners within the last two weeks. We discussed the 3 coach fleet of MCI "over the road" coaches. They have reached the 12 year/500,000 miles FTA age limit and will need to be replaced soon. These coaches are bare bones with luxury seating, windows and AC/Heat, but there is not much else to tell you that they are special. For 2 weeks now, I have been on the phone to Prevost Car, MCI, Volvo, and my favorite SILVER EAGLE (Model 15), doing foot work to lure those passengers out of their cars.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transporte%20Bus%20Truck%20HIGHWAY/Eagle15-1.jpg)
The Silver Eagle Motor Coach, no airbag suspension (which tips the coach the wrong way on tight curves) the undercarriage is a mini-Mercedees.
You have 2 choices, which I'd like to turn into three: Clay County - Downtown Jax, Ponte Vedra Beach - Downtown (via) Gate/Baymeadows.
1. Drive your car, familiar, BYOB, fight traffic, use hands free cell phone
2. Today you can choose to drive to the closest park-n-ride lot, board the very limited MCI Motor Coach Industries / JTA Commuter Express Coach to or from Downtown.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transporte%20Bus%20Truck%20HIGHWAY/JTAPREVOSTINTERIOR.jpg)
The Branch Office
3. "THE OCKLARIDE", 5 new Silver Eagle Model 15's, reclining seats, foot rests, head rests, Rear 16 seats face eachother clustered 2x2 around 4 small work tables. Every seat has WIFI internet access, Stereo headphones, Television news. The rear of the coach features a self serve snack-coffee-bar, featuring names like Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, 3 layers. Spotless self contained restroom, 4 - Tables are large enough for 4 laptops, and come with 4 cup holders, with 4 . curtains or blinds, plush seats, electrical outlets at each seat.
This idea is gaining steam as we write, I feel like every other city on earth, if we make being stuck an hour in traffic. If your going to be stuck might as well catch up with the news on MJ, talk to uncle Elias about the new restaurant, listen to some Jazz, watching live news from Wall Street all whilst sipping an iced coffee.
The last OCKLARIDE plan would also be the first pass coach in the city. No fare collection on board = no lost change, delays, fights with drivers etc. The tickets for one day, $5.00 and include Amtrak from Downtown to NAS/Yukon, St. Augustine, anytime, Greyhound anytime, JTA buses and coaches to close in park n ride, any
Meanwhile the JTA city city bus routes.
Skyway, bus fleet, operations standards, Riverside and other historic or heritage neighborhoods. To be attractive, JTA MUST LEARN to create a product that more then appeals to the booming. Which goes back to mixing modes (which doesn't have a thing to do with duplication of services)
OCKLAWAHA
Ock - Great idea, prove that buses work before we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on rail, and become fodder for more news organizations around the world. We already have the Skyway, we don't need a Railwayish nightmare.
Funny cause the city was prepared to spend a billion dollars on buses...but I'd rather implement cheap rail and make it work until we can prove that we need dedicated BRT express lanes.
Quotebut I'd rather implement cheap rail and make it work until we can prove that we need dedicated BRT express lanes.
Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, and West Palm are proving there is no such thing as cheap rail. If they can't succeed with Tri-rail, what makes anyone think rail can succeed anywhere in Florida? By Oct 2009, they will operate 30 trains, PER DAY, and they are still losing money.
How many trains over how many years must RAILWAY operate to make money? The Skyway is a failure, why should anyone think rail is 1) lower cost, and that 2) anyone has a plan to see it work profitably in NE Florida?
JTA makes more money with buses than it does with SKYWAY, so again, why is it we are looking at rail?
No one is looking at commuter rail to make money. Not sure why you keep mentioning that.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 17, 2009, 03:37:54 AM
Quotebut I'd rather implement cheap rail and make it work until we can prove that we need dedicated BRT express lanes.
JTA makes more money with buses than it does with SKYWAY, so again, why is it we are looking at rail?
JTA doesn't MAKE MONEY with buses. Transportation systems, including airports and highways don't MAKE MONEY, that why the private sector doesn't build them.
How can you possibly compare the 2 mile skyway to the hundreds of miles covered by buses in any respect?
The BRT system being proposed will cost just as much at a rail system would.
Commuter rail nationally has the highest recovery rates of any mode of transit. They range from 18%-80%, compared to buses that is outstanding. As far as the Skyway goes operating costs for that system are very low compared to the bus system simply because it is automated. No mode of transit makes money! and it shouldn't be expected to.
Any chance someone can answer my question? I dont care if this thread turns into another senseless debate, but I am still curious about the classification of "choice riders."
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on April 16, 2009, 03:14:10 AM
This likely has no application to Jax, but I'm just curious:
When studying public transit, is a distinction ever made between choice riders who own personal automobiles but choose transit for a particular trip versus those who have the means to own personal automobiles but forgo such a purchase to rely solely on transit? Or are all choice riders lumped together as being people who don't "need" public transportation but choose it anyway?
It seems to me it would make a difference. My first example of choice riders, it appears, seek mass transit in large part out of convenience, whereas the latter group might be driven by more of a financial motivation, although they should still very much fall under the choice ridership label.
It also seems as if it would be harder to lure choice riders from the first group (ie, convincing people to get out of their own cars) but it's harder for the second group to even exist (would have to be in a dense, walkable neighborhood, that is not isolated from the rest of the world).