QuoteSt. Johns water withdrawal permit approved
PALATKA â€" A plan to take water from the St. Johns River to supply growing Central Florida suburbs won approval from a state agency Monday despite pleas from scores of opponents.
“This is the most difficult decision that has come to the board in my term,†said Susan Hughes, chairman of the St. Johns River Water Management District board.
She supported the permit, which the board passed on a 5-4 vote.
The decision allows Seminole County’s utility system to take up to 5.5 million gallons daily for drinking water and lawn watering.
Many critics warned that would open a floodgate of communities wanting to take far more.
“This 5.5-million-gallon withdrawal is the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent,†St. Johns County Commission Chairman Cyndi Stevenson argued.
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/2009-04-13/story/st_johns_water_withdrawal_permit_approved
Thats fine, let them.
When we hit back with a multibillion dollar lawsuit for damages to our ecosystem in North Florida, then they will finally understand.
Money talks. Sadly though, tons of wildlife will suffer until this is changed.
Or, we can hope for another 97-98 drought, but this time, the fires do their job down there. Just a thought. :P
Once again, subsidized development rears its ugly head. If we are so desperate for water, why not put a moratorium on new construction as they have done elsewhere when facing resource shortages.
Not here. Let's give them the water and fuel more development. When the water runs short, let's up the permit again. And so on, until we have irreversibly destroyed the river's ecosystem.
Our natural resources, including land, water, oil, etc. are finite and man needs to stop living like there is no end in site. We are assuring our own destruction.
“
Quote"This is the most difficult decision that has come to the board in my term,†said Susan Hughes, chairman of the St. Johns River Water Management District board.
She supported the permit, which the board passed on a 5-4 vote....
..."I’m absolutely convinced … there will be no harm to the river,†said board member David Graham of Jacksonville.
Voting with him and Hughes were members Douglas Bournique, Ann Moore and Michael Ertel, who is Seminole County’s supervisor of elections.
Florida Times Union: http://jacksonville.com/news/2009-04-13/story/st_johns_water_withdrawal_permit_approved
Here are the Jacksonville area voters who voted against Jacksonville's interests:(http://sjr.state.fl.us/governingboard/images/hughes.jpg)
QuoteSusan N. Hughes, Chairman
Ponte Vedra
Ms. Hughes is chief human resources officer for JEA, a Jacksonville-based water, electric and sewer utility, where she has worked for nearly 23 years. She was appointed to a three-year term on the District’s Governing Board on Oct. 9, 2003, to an at-large seat, and was reappointed in March 2006 to a four-year term ending March 1, 2010. She was elected vice chairman of the Board on Nov. 13, 2007, and served until her election as Board chairman on Nov. 11, 2008. Ms. Hughes has a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering from the University of Pittsburgh and a master’s degree in public administration from the University of North Florida. She also is a registered professional engineer. Ms. Hughes is outgoing vice president of the Florida Water Environment Association (FWEA) Utility Council. She is a graduate of the 2004 class of Leadership Jacksonville, has served on the Florida Chamber Water Task Force and Jacksonville Mayor’s Growth Management Task Force. Ms. Hughes also serves on the Board of the PACE Center for Girls and previously on the Winston YMCA Board.
(http://sjr.state.fl.us/governingboard/images/graham.jpg)
QuoteDavid G. Graham
Jacksonville
Mr. Graham is chairman and chief executive officer of InTuition Development Holding, LLC. He was appointed to a four-year term on the District’s Governing Board March 1, 2001, to an at-large seat. He was reappointed in 2005. He was elected as the Board’s treasurer Nov. 13, 2001, serving until Nov. 11, 2003, when he was elected vice chairman. He was elected Board chairman Nov. 8, 2005, and served until Nov. 11, 2008. A Jacksonville native and graduate of Jacksonville University, Mr. Graham has been involved in banking and financial services since 1979, holding senior positions with Barnett Bank and Barnett Banks Trust Co. He is active in the Jacksonville civic, business and higher education communities. Mr. Graham has held director or trustee positions in various organizations, including Mandarin Presbyterian Church, the University of North Florida Business Advisory Council, InRoads Inc., and Jacksonville University. He currently is on the board of SunTrust Banks of North Florida and on the Foundation Board of Episcopal High School.
Or let's stop Coke and PepsiCo and Nestlé or whoever else is draining our springs and just send central Florida some north Florida spring water. I say we kick out the big-brand companies regardless.
Not that I disagree with opponents of the decision, but it is important to recognize that the SJRWMD is supposed to manage water use....which includes, to some extent, ensuring the provisio of water.
Its kind of like DCA having to do growth management....it doesn't mean that they are supposed to say NO to all development....just balance it as much as possible.
Clearly the SJRWMD was in a very difficult position, because parts of their core mission may be in conflict in this case.
We know Florida's water future is Desalinization so let's not spend large amounts of money to ruin our rivers just to put off what we will have to do anyway.
This issue exemplifies the problems inherent with the St. Johns River Water Management District and the policies that govern our water resources. Instead of addressing the root causes of our water supply problems first, the District is directing communities to seek new sources and the preferred path leads to the St. Johns River. The Floridan Aquifer, the source of 90% of our water in Florida, is one of the most productive and vast sources of freshwater on our planet. Yet, we have managed to reach its limits within an extraordinary short period of time. The responsible and prudent thing to do would be to address the reasons for this rapid depletion of our aquifer before simply moving on to the next source that we can exploit. Conservation has not been seriously attempted in this state, and the District has done little to require or make it a priority. It is simply irresponsible to spend billions of dollars tapping into the St. Johns and rolling the dice with the health of our river before exhausting all of the more cost-effective and proven conservation options that are readily available to us.
we need lawns like in the Southwest. that should be standard. a lawn that requires regular watering should be aviable, but cost extra.
I call to stop all new development in Florida with the exception of infill and adaptive reuse. All the cookie cutter subdivision's are not needed. Hell on my AD VALOREM TAXES I pay ST Johns River Water Mgmt taxes so I should have a say what is done with the river if i pay taxes on it
Every property should have two meters - one for consumption, one for irrigation. The irrigation meter would be "smart" in that it would charge a much higher rate when it isn't OK to irrigate. Like 10 times higher. Something would have to be done to keep green grass fetishists from running a hose from their bathtub, but I'm sure this could be figured out, too.
I love my green grass and don't have to water it at all! Bahia grass is the Bomb!
SamIam, in a perfect world I would love to see that too.
How about spending the money to reuse waste water instead. Much better to filter it back into the environment than it is to dump it in a river.
I vote for a cross between Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia!
The amazing thing about this is, you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, then take it home and just get stoned to the bejesus belt that night on it...
Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 19, 2009, 10:19:44 PM
Every property should have two meters - one for consumption, one for irrigation. The irrigation meter would be "smart" in that it would charge a much higher rate when it isn't OK to irrigate. Like 10 times higher. Something would have to be done to keep green grass fetishists from running a hose from their bathtub, but I'm sure this could be figured out, too.
Hey I think your onto something Charles! Finally a use for all those parking meters we need to remove from the downtown. A little mechanical tweeking and deposit .75 cents per minute to open the water valve outside.
I can't help but think of the Aral Sea, and the great plan to divert the river water for aggriculture. This was done by the Soviet State after visiting lush irragated US farms. So bend over Lake Monroe, Lake Jessup, Lake Harney... Your number is up in Orlando!(http://envis.maharashtra.gov.in/envis_data/files/Aral_Sea.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteEvery property should have two meters - one for consumption, one for irrigation.
Charles - You should really go talk with JEA first. Did you know the cost of the irrigation meter is close to $1,000 for a 3/4" meter? That is just to BUY the meter for your property, of course you need someone who can install it for you. Even if the meter sits idle, it still costs you each month.
Tampa is under water restrictions to the point that they have water police who come and inspect properties. Neighbors calling in on neighbors. Fun times. Jail time included for some offenses.
Graham on the board is spineless wuss, I have yet to hear back from him, although I emailed him the day after his spineless decision. His leadership is akin to that of Peyton.
We should all have to use rain barrels to water our lawns. We use reclaimed water in my neighborhood but that I am told is not viable in existing neighborhoods.
Ironically, on the same day the SJRWMD Board was voting to approve the Seminole County permit to withdraw water from the St. Johns, Distract staff were also defending their support of a permit for Niagara water bottling plant in an administrative hearing. Lake County and Groveland do not want the California-based bottler to set up shop in their community and pump water out the aquifer to bottle and sell outside of Florida. However, the District staff recommended approval of the permit, so Groveland was forced to file for an administrative hearing.
Here is an interested quote from , Dwight Jenkins, a SJRWMD consumptive-use policy-development coordinator, who testified at the hearing. This is from an article that was in the Orlando Sentinel:
"Everything that keeps Florida's economy going is fueled by consumptive-use permits."
Jenkins said the district's ability to review and grant water permits enables economic growth and new businesses to come into the Sunshine State.
The testimony came during the fourth day of an administrative hearing in Orlando into Groveland's challenge of Niagara's request to tap the aquifer for 176 million gallons a year near the south Lake County city, bottle the water and sell it.
I guess that just about sums up our water policy in this state.
Hold up, wasn't Niagara the stuff used to make women in the mood, like Viagra for men?!
Quote from: riverkeepered on April 29, 2009, 11:49:09 PM
Ironically, on the same day the SJRWMD Board was voting to approve the Seminole County permit to withdraw water from the St. Johns, Distract staff were also defending their support of a permit for Niagara water bottling plant in an administrative hearing. Lake County and Groveland do not want the California-based bottler to set up shop in their community and pump water out the aquifer to bottle and sell outside of Florida. However, the District staff recommended approval of the permit, so Groveland was forced to file for an administrative hearing.
Here is an interested quote from , Dwight Jenkins, a SJRWMD consumptive-use policy-development coordinator, who testified at the hearing. This is from an article that was in the Orlando Sentinel:
"Everything that keeps Florida's economy going is fueled by consumptive-use permits."
Jenkins said the district's ability to review and grant water permits enables economic growth and new businesses to come into the Sunshine State.
The testimony came during the fourth day of an administrative hearing in Orlando into Groveland's challenge of Niagara's request to tap the aquifer for 176 million gallons a year near the south Lake County city, bottle the water and sell it.
I guess that just about sums up our water policy in this state.
It's just like the defenders of oil that believe it's for everything and forever, whatever the consequences to sustain such ends. They act like it's a limitless resource as long as they can get their grubby hands on it. If it becomes too precious, they don't worry because they figure they can afford it still, even at a higher prices. And, the environment be damned if it means some form of sacrifice to those possessing the selfish and wanton desire to live like kings and queens for all the days of our lives. It's the everyday person who will suffer. "Let them eat cake" she said. And the people responded, "off with her head"! So it may be someday, that we common folk throw the bums out that put us in these holes.
I wish we could elect the SJRWMD Governing board, so they would look out for the tax payers interest, instead of being selected by the Governor. I think that would be ideal. I really don't think many of the Governing board understand protecting the river.
SJRWMD says that 50 to 60% of our water goes to water lawns! >:(
If people would change their mind about how they have to have a green lawn and go with Florida drought tolerant native plants and Bahia grass (or native ground cover) this would be a great! I know that people have to have their St. Augustine grass (which is the worst because it requires more chemicals and mowing).
We all need to conserve and do what we can to save our precious water.
The SJRWMD also has a program called FLORIDA WATER STAR which is trying to get homes certified for water conservation and efficiency. I encourage anyone to look at the criteria, it might give you ideas on how to save water in the home. They have an excellent resources section (on the Water Star page) - here is the link
http://www.floridawaterstar.com/resources.html (http://www.floridawaterstar.com/resources.html)
Change the old toilet out too, the old ones use 3 to 6 gallons per flush, the new ones are 1.5 gallons or lower.
All we need to do is reverse the flow of the St. Johns River from North to South. That way, we'd be taking THEIR water.
Then we could say "take that, O-town"
The problem is that programs like Water Star are voluntary, and effective water conservation programs don't qualify for funding support from the SJRWMD like water withdrawal projects and desal plants do. The District has directed communities to the river by forcing them to select an "alternative water supply" source (AWS) and by promising help with funding. There is an article in yesterday's Deland paper that reports that Volusia has reluctantly selected the river as their AWS source at the behest of the District, despite interest from some county commissioners to instead pursue water conservation measures. Instead of spending billions on expensive water withdrawal facilities and infrastructure, our tax dollars need to be redirected to proven and cost-effective water conservation programs. We must begin to use water much more efficiently before we move on to the next source of water.
If you are upset with the SJRWMD Governing Board for granting a permit to Seminole County to begin withdrawing water from the river, well you may not have to worry about Board decisions in the future. A bill is currently sitting on the Governor's desk, SB 2080, that would give the executive directors of each of the water management districts the power to issue the permits without involvement from the Board.
This bill would essentially put the future of our water resources in the hands of five people, the five executive directors of the Water Management Districts. While I have been a critic of many of the decisions of the Board, this would consolidate power in the hands of a few people who are not elected or appointed and not acccountable to the people. This would also eliminate the opportunity for citizens to address the Board in a public forum before each vote, would make it easier for developers and utilities to influence the decision-making process, and would make it easier to keep these critical issues and decisions out of the public eye. Governor Crist needs to veto this bad bill.
It's unbelievable that with all the issues facing our state, "our" legislators can find time to make bad situations worse by turning over every stone looking for ways to remove public input and aid developers who continue to rape the land and the taxpayers. Why o' why do voters vote these people into office? If they only understood the full consequences of their votes. And, how can these elected officials so easily turn their backs on the people they are supposed to represent. Shameful!
Since Crist is now running for the Senate, maybe he'll stake out one of his famous populist stands and veto this.
QuoteJune 08, 2009
District water plan drawing opposition
By DINAH VOYLES PULVER
Environmental Writer
The Volusia County Council has agreed to have its attorneys look into challenging the St. Johns River Water Management District's most recent water supply plan.
At issue is the county's inclusion on a list of utilities that could partner on a proposal to pull water from the lower Ocklawaha River to supplement fresh groundwater supplies. Volusia County officials seemed surprised at last week's meeting to find the county water utility and several Volusia cities on the list.
Local utilities have expressed no interest in participating on an Ocklawaha River facility, particularly because they say it would cost so much to pump water from a Putnam County location.
"We don't think it makes a lot of sense," Jamie Seaman, an attorney for the county, said during Thursday's council meeting.
However, Volusia utilities are not new to the list. The Water Authority of Volusia was listed as a potential partner in the Ocklawaha project on the original plan approved in 2005.
The latest amended plan, a 177-page document, was approved by the district's governing board at its May 12 meeting. In this version, the district added local utilities to the list separately, rather than lumping them together as the water authority, because it didn't appear the authority would be involved in any alternative water supply projects, said Barbara Vergara, director of water supply management.
Vergara said the district sent several Volusia County officials notice of the plan and a public meeting on April 6 to discuss it. Notices of the April meeting were widely distributed to the public through news releases.
No Volusia County officials provided any written comments, Vergara said.
The Utilities Commission for the city of New Smyrna Beach was on its toes, attending the April meeting and sending a letter to the district on April 8 asking to be removed from the list of potential partners for an Ocklawaha plant.
Richard Dembinsky, the commission's senior civil engineer, also disputed several other points in the supply plan.
New Smyrna Beach and the county have similar concerns, saying the district isn't cooperating as fully as it should with local governments. The district, for example, refused to take New Smyrna off the list for the Ocklawaha plant.
The debate between the district and area utilities over future groundwater use has become increasingly contentious.
Volusia officials dispute numbers the district uses to project future shortfalls in fresh groundwater supplies and also question computer modeling done to determine future water levels in Blue Spring, which will control the amount of groundwater that utilities in West Volusia are allowed to pump.
Seaman said the latest water plan might represent an "entry point" for the county to start challenging decisions district officials have "been making that we've been questioning for quite some time."
dinah.pulver@news-jrnl.com
This is really interesting. Volusia County is actually pushing back and potentially going to challenge the St. Johns River Water Management District. The District has been forcing communities to make water supply decisions and take actions that they don't necessarily agree with or want to do. I hope Volusia's actions will help to call into question the policies and priorities of the District and encourage other communities to also stand up to the District and refuse to be bullied and influenced by the promise of funding for costly water supply projects that could harm our river and may not even be necessary.
Well, it looks like the concerns of the public and several county and city governments is starting to sink in with the St. Johns River Water Management District. This past week, the SJRWMD Governing Board announced a new commitment to water conservation and a hold on funding for future water withdrawal projects until the 3-year impact study is completed late next year.
While this is progress, we also have to remain cautious in our appraisal until we see more action and can determine whether this decision is based primarily on the current economic situation or a true commitment to conservation.
You can read more about this change of heart from the District at http://www.riverhugger.com/2009/07/water-management-district-changes-tune.html (http://www.riverhugger.com/2009/07/water-management-district-changes-tune.html).
There is also a great editorial in today's Gainesville Sun - http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090719/OPINION01/907179932/1017?Title=Editorial-Finally-listening
amen!
What the Board of the St. John's Water Management District says and does makes no difference anymore. Governor Crist signed the idiot bill pushed by the developers that puts all decisions about consumptive use permits into the hands of the Director of the District ALONE!
The Board is now no more than a bunch of tweety birds singing in their cage. Things were bad before and are going to get much worse. There will be NO public input or comment anymore.
I agree with stjr, and, the way people waste water, along with the new building and construction going on, if we have another major/serious drought, the mighty St. John's River is in deep trouble. There really is no clear answer to this. You can't stop people from prospering, constructing, building, etc. unless it is causing a real serious problem. In my opinion this issue is serious, but not in the eyes of most. I guess they (government, etc.) feels that everyone is entitled to water from wherever the source. Time will tell how this and subsequent draining of the St. John's will affect the delicate and sensitive ecosystem along and surrounding it.
Heights Unknown
Anyone hear about this huge, and I mean huge, decision for Metro Atlanta?!
Judge: Using Lake Lanier for Drinking Water is Illegal
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132703&catid=40
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_us/us_water_wars
Quote from: reednavy on July 19, 2009, 11:11:28 AM
Anyone hear about this huge, and I mean huge, decision for Metro Atlanta?!
Judge: Using Lake Lanier for Drinking Water is Illegal
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=132703&catid=40
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_us/us_water_wars
Reednavy, thanks for the cite.
It shows another example that water, among other natural resources, is not limitless. We can not continue to support unlimited populations across this earth anymore. At some point, we have to begin accepting that more people, i.e. more growth, is not sustainable and that it will actually REDUCE or ELIMINATE our currently accepted standards of living. Water, more than oil, traffic, or global warming, may finally be the straw that breaks the back of an insatiable human demand to conquer the environment regardless of the consequences to its own kind.I do find it ironic that Florida joins Alabama in proclaiming that its water can not be siphoned from natural flows while the SJRWMD promotes and approves the exact opposite within the boundaries of this state. How about Florida taking a lesson, and practicing what it preaches? Enough of growth for the sake of growth!
It is pure folly to think that population growth is inherently necessary to sustain our economy or to build such an assumption into our fiscal planning (such as paying for social security with ever increasing numbers of younger workers or paying for today's infrastructure costs with an expected continuing increase in future residents) which just perpetuates the pressure to maintain it.Quote"The Court recognizes that this is a draconian result," Magnuson wrote. "It is, however, the only result that recognizes how far the operation of the (lake) has strayed from the original authorization."
Alabama Gov. Bob Riley said the ruling would have a tremendous impact on his state's economic future.
"Atlanta has based its growth on the idea that it could take whatever water it wanted whenever it wanted it, and that the downstream states would simply have to make do with less," Riley said. "Following the Court's ruling today, this massive illegal water grab will be coming to an end."
This will be discussed during the closing session of the 2009 APA Florida Conference, which will be held here in Jacksonville in September.
For more information...
www.floridaplanning.org/conference
Watch this water war between the states to see previews of the upcoming water war between Florida's counties!
Things could get very nasty very quickly. Crist and the SJWMD better be thinking far ahead on this issue and not worrying about today's politics. The last thing anyone needs to do is encourage more usage of water when we are already past the point of having a sustainable supply for our current populations!
On our current track, I foresee huge legal bills, lot's of uncertainty, and the imposition of "emergency and unplanned measures" such as moratoriums on growth and forced restrictions to reduce existing water usage. Don't let SJRWMD, the governor, or anyone else tell you they didn't see it coming (like Gov. Perdue in Georgia). It's obvious.QuoteWater dispute strains states' governors' relations
BEN EVANS
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON â€" Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue's public invitation to meet with his counterparts in Alabama and Florida on disputed water rights contained a telling detail about their increasingly frosty relations.
Perdue offered his fellow governors 40 potential dates for a meeting between August and November. Why so many?
Why can't he, Alabama Gov. Bob Riley and Florida Gov. Charlie Crist â€" all Republicans who call themselves friends â€" work out the dates of a meeting without using press releases and news conferences to show how ready they are to negotiate?
"I think it's gamesmanship. They're all sort of strutting around in each of their own barnyards," said Mark Crisp, a water consultant who has worked on behalf of utilities in the dispute. "I think it's evolved into more of a personality clash, not political because they are all three Republicans, and certainly not technical, because the technical aspects of this case are not rocket science."
Nearly everyone involved in the dispute says there is plenty of water to go around in the river systems the states have been fighting over for 20 years. The governors themselves say there shouldn't be a need for continued litigation that has already cost the states millions of dollars.
"It goes back a long ways. There are deep-seated ill feelings," Crisp said.
Yet the states remain in a stalemate, and a landmark court ruling last month may have only hardened their divisions. As of Friday, the governors had not talked directly about water sharing since a federal judge decided earlier in July that Georgia has almost no legal rights to Lake Lanier, metro Atlanta's main water source.
Riley said he ran into Perdue at a governors conference shortly after the ruling was announced but that the subject didn't come up, even though a settlement is perhaps their states' most pressing issue, with potentially far-reaching economic consequences.
Later in the week, the particularly strained relations between Riley and Perdue erupted as the two traded accusations about who was at fault in past negotiations. Perdue challenged Riley to waive a confidentiality agreement so that the public could see the full record of their talks.
All three governors are on their way out. Perdue and Riley are heading into the final year of their eight years in office, prevented by term limits from running again. Crist is forgoing another term to run for Senate.
The recent court decision clarified the legal landscape and set a firm deadline for any settlement: Three years from now. But it also may have made negotiations even more sticky.
Judge Magnuson ruled that Georgia has been illegally tapping Lanier, a massive federal reservoir in north Georgia. The lake currently provides drinking water to more than 3 million people, and the state was banking on using it even more to accommodate future growth. Florida and Alabama had challenged the withdrawals, saying they were drying up river flow into their states.
Acknowledging that the decision could have "draconian" consequences, Magnuson said Georgia could continue using the lake for three years. But most withdrawals must end at that time if the states can't push an agreement through Congress.
Perdue so far appears unwilling to accept the decision, saying he will challenge it through appeal and "fight to the death" for Georgia's water rights. Restarting negotiations in such a weakened position is not an attractive option.
For Riley and Crist, meanwhile, the decision offers little incentive to make concessions at the bargaining table, and plenty of reason to sit back and see what Georgia will offer.
With a three-year deadline looming, Georgia would be taking a significant risk if it waits and hopes the case is reversed without simultaneously seeking a settlement.
Already, Democrats are criticizing Perdue for leaving the state in a bind.
"His attempts at using the courts have failed at every level and done nothing but isolate our neighbors to the west and south," said David Poythress, a Democrat and former Georgia National Guard commander running for governor.
Poythress said Perdue should focus on reaching an accord with the other states while boosting conservation and expanding the state's water storage capacity. Such criticism could spread to the other governors if Atlanta is thrown into a water crisis.
But for the near term, Crisp said Georgia leaders are under the gun because they have "painted themselves in a corner that's going to be tremendously difficult to get out of."
He said Perdue surely feels he must protect Georgia's interests, but that he probably also has an eye on his legacy.
"When they leave office, they want to leave the state in a better position than when they took over, and I think at this point Gov. Perdue is looking at the real possibility that his only legacy, regardless of what's happened over the past eight years, is that he lost" the water wars, Crisp said. "I don't know what kind of guidance he's been provided by his legal or policy staff, but the future of Georgia is in his hands right now."
Unfortunately, the decisions that are being made regarding water supply are not based on common sense. As with most decisions that are made about water and our natural resources, this is about politics and money.
In fact, Seminole County is so intent on withdrawing water from the river to fuel future growth and to position themselves as a regional water supplier that they have resorted to intimidation tactics.
This is from an e-mail submitted by Riverkeeper Neil Armingeon recently:
QuoteYou may remember that St. Johns Riverkeeper is appealing the Yankee Lake permit decision in the Fifth District Court of Appeal. We are currently drafting the appeal, and it will be filed in late August. Unfortunately, Seminole County is doing everything it can to make our work even harder.
Although Riverkeeper's legal challenge was filed against the SJRWMD, Seminole County, as the permit applicant, intervened in the case. For all practical purposes, Seminole County and their attorneys have driven the case, and the SJRWMD has been relegated to bystanders.
Seminole’s strategy has been to bully Riverkeeper, hoping to drive us out of the case. Their primary action was to threaten us with legal sanctions, meaning Riverkeeper would be liable to pay their legal costs that total well into the millions of dollars.
The basis for Seminole’s charges was that Riverkeeper’s case was “frivolous†and that we filed the challenge not to protect the river from water withdrawals, but to “make moneyâ€. Our attorneys have filed responses challenging this outlandish accusation. The judge has not ruled on Seminole’s charges, so it has continued.
Earlier this summer, Seminole County resurrected their attempts to seek legal fees, and this time they were adamant that the judge must rule. In addition to Riverkeeper being liable, Seminole County is now seeking fees from our attorneys, as well. To avoid a Seminole County-created conflict of interest, Riverkeeper has been forced to hire another attorney in these proceedings.
Seminole’s motives are clear; they want us to spend limited our limited financial and staff resources defending against these charges. They also want to make it as difficult as possible for citizens to challenge these proposed water withdrawals.
It is outrageous that citizen groups must raise large amounts of money to defend the natural resources that belong to all of us. Now, we must also defend ourselves against unwarranted charges.
Seminole County’s actions demonstrate the ends to which parties in Central Florida will go to remove water from the St. Johns River, so they can continue to grow at an unsustainable rate.
The SJRWMD is also playing a part in this unfortunate event. Last week, the Director of the Resource Management Department, Hal Wilkening, testified on behalf of Seminole County. Wilkening is leading the District’s charge to remove water from the St. Johns and Ocklawaha Rivers, and his testimony demonstrates the District does not always represent the public that funds their budget.
We will continue to fight this injustice, and I can assure you St. Johns Riverkeeper will not be bullied or threatened by Seminole county or any other party whose actions pose a threat to the health of the St. Johns.
While Seminole County continues to authorize its attorneys to pursue these ridiculous claims against Riverkeeper
and the City of Jacksonville spending thousands of taxpayer dollars in the process, they are facing significant possible cuts for essential city services and programs. They are also pursuing expensive withdrawal projects that may no longer be necessary as soon as once thought. The growth projections have changes significantly since the future water supply needs were estimated, so Seminole may be expending money on unnecessary water supply projects at the expense of other more immediate infrastructure needs.
I hope we in NE FL are paying attention and will learn from their mistakes.
Seminole County is out of bounds. I hope the Riverkeeper and COJ can countersue them for legal fees for pursuing their own frivolous strategy. Maybe that risk would give them pause.
Meanwhile, the TU article this week on the depletion of spring water feeding the St. Johns River should be factored into to the withdrawal process. I don't remember them commenting on how this might be a factor so any comment here would be welcome.
Central Florida should pay $ to the St. Johns water mgmt for water.
Quote from: samiam on April 19, 2009, 09:04:24 PM
I call to stop all new development in Florida with the exception of infill and adaptive reuse. All the cookie cutter subdivision's are not needed. Hell on my AD VALOREM TAXES I pay ST Johns River Water Mgmt taxes so I should have a say what is done with the river if i pay taxes on it
This is the "Titanic" philosophy.
Now that I'm on the lifeboat, to hell with everyone else. PULL UP THE LADDERS!
More evidence below of water supply issues ahead - from the SJRWMD's own data! How does the SJRWMD continue to approve the siphoning off of more water to feed unsustainable development? I predict a day not far out when all development will have to be halted due to lack of necessary water supplies. Time to put politics aside and deal with this issue correctly.QuoteWill Jacksonville's water woes spread across North Florida?
Experts say excess demand might sap the water that now bubbles out of springs in rural North Florida.
By Steve PattersonStory updated at 12:23 PM on Saturday, Sep. 26, 2009
Generations of tourists in North Florida visited White Springs and the "spring house" where clear sulfur water bubbled from the ground.
That ended decades ago. Wells drilled around the speck of a town on the Suwannee River pumped so much ground water that the spring stopped flowing.
Today, people in inland North Florida are wondering whether rivers and more springs could someday face similar damage from a new generation of pumping farther away - in Jacksonville.
"White Springs kind of leads you into the whole water supply issue in North Florida," said Carlos Herd, water supply project manager for the Suwannee River Water Management District. "Right now, it doesn't look real good.
"At least in the future, there could be significant impacts. ... [With] what's happened up to this point, are we looking at the beginning of those effects?"
State agencies are taking a closer a look at that.
Herd's office and the St. Johns River Water Management District will spend the next few months analyzing how water use in Jacksonville and its suburbs will add to the demand put on levels of the Floridan Aquifer in places like Bradford, Union and Alachua counties.
Their main question is how that will affect plants and wildlife around the Santa Fe River, which starts near Keystone Heights and winds past several counties to join the Suwannee.
Early forecasts suggested that by 2030, Jacksonville-area demand could suck down aquifer levels anywhere from one to three feet near the Santa Fe's upper reaches, which get water from both rainfall and springs.
That forecast is on top of the demand that will come from people actually living in those areas, who use water for farming and mining as well as in their homes and shops.
Although Florida's sudden falloff in growth could make the earlier predictions too dire, the subject has some outdoor enthusiasts worried.
"We're getting too close to a tipping point that can radically change an ecosystem," said Rob Brinkman, chairman of the Sierra Club's Gainesville-area group.
"The water we're using is having an effect on how much water is coming out of the springs, and that affects the water quality."
On the Santa Fe, hurting the ecosystem can also mean harming a lifestyle built on hiking and paddling dark waterways that draw day-trippers from around the state.
If water agencies decide the Santa Fe can't handle more demands on the aquifer, the St. Johns and Suwannee districts will have to work out some plan to keep that from happening, said Al Canepa, assistant director of resource management at the St. Johns district.
Deciding whether that's necessary will mean finding out how sensitive different springs and sections of river are, because the same change in the aquifer can affect two places very differently, Canepa said.
A new forecast that factors water use from both districts and new estimates of slower population growth should be ready early next year, he said.
"Right now, we don't think that there's an issue," Canepa said. "But the jury is still out."
Proving what causes changes at any one spring can be complicated, and some changes have nothing to do with anyone in Jacksonville.
At Worthington Springs in Union County, for example, the flow from a tiny spring ringed by an old concrete pool slowed to a trickle years ago.
But Brinkman said the big issue is less about whether one town is affecting another than whether Floridians are taking care of their water supply.
"The problem in Florida is we don't do a very good job with conservation," he said. "Floridians use more per capita than most of the nation. There's really no good reason for that."
If people learned to conserve water better, he said, "we could get to the point where Jacksonville could increase its population and still use less water than it does now."
From: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/will_jacksonvilles_water_woes_spread_across_north_florida
(http://jacksonville.com/files/WaterLevels.jpg)
Desalinization, plain and simple.
Couldn't agree more Reednavy. This is what is left after you pull the water out! This shot is Bristol Dry (salt) Lake, at Amboy, CA., about 45 minutes North of my desert place. 500 miles from nowhere - 2 feet from HELL! In Owens Lake, an hour or so North, you can see the bones of steamboats sticking out of the Salt, got to water LA!
OCKLAWAHA
(http://www.frenchdesignstudio.com/page5/page6/files/collage_lb_image_page6_3_1.png)
Central Florida needs to monitor it's own water usage...........St Johns will change drastically when the flow of fresh water is reduced and the increase in salinity takes place..........look to the Okefenokee canal project as to what will take place and we are still paying for that one!
People in Keystone Heights have long blamed Jacksonville residents for draing their lakes. What comes around....
^ M Train no one in Keystone now or ever believed Jacksonville has had much to do with their lake problems.
BTW the water is way up in Keystone I am their once a week and it is at the highest level in 10 or 15 years.
Jax has no relevant connection to Keystone water.
If you would like to learn more.
http://www.saveourlakes.org/ (http://www.saveourlakes.org/)
Jeffrey....uh....er the TU article Sunday showed the impact that the NE Florida population has had on the water table in NE Florida. Travel into Mandarin or some of the older parts of Jax, and see how many manhole covers are lacking. We have thousands of people still on wells, that go drier and drier every year. I suppose the sand we sucked up our well was a figure of our imagination, needing to drill down 300 feet to hit water. We kept Partridge Wells in OP very busy year after year.
You can't keep adding people without a cost. The water in Keystone may be back due to the rains we have had this summer, but what goes up also goes down, and the 5 million gallons that Mickey plans to pull out will cause the STJR to go salted soon, not in the next 5 years, but once the next real estate boom kicks back in, we are going to be in the same issues we were a few years back, by then Mickey will be draining the river for 50 million gallons.
Our groundwater resources are connected, and what happens in Jacksonville can impact the water levels in Keystone and surrounding areas. Here is an article from the Gainesville Sun speculating that Jacksonville could be partially responsible for lower groundwater levels in Alachua, as well.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090915/ARTICLES/909151003/1002?Title=County-agency-to-conduct-water-conservation-study (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090915/ARTICLES/909151003/1002?Title=County-agency-to-conduct-water-conservation-study)
Water issues affect us all and must be addressed on a statewide and national level. We really have a water use problem and not a water supply problem. All of us use way too much water, and the root causes of our water shortages must be addressed and adequately resolved before we seek new sources. If we don't, water withdrawal schemes, desalination, and other "alternative water supply" sources will never effectively quench our insatiable thirst and will end up costing us billions of dollars and significant impacts to our environment.
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 28, 2009, 09:58:36 PM
Jeffrey....uh....er the TU article Sunday showed the impact that the NE Florida population has had on the water table in NE Florida. Travel into Mandarin or some of the older parts of Jax, and see how many manhole covers are lacking. We have thousands of people still on wells, that go drier and drier every year. I suppose the sand we sucked up our well was a figure of our imagination, needing to drill down 300 feet to hit water. We kept Partridge Wells in OP very busy year after year.
You can't keep adding people without a cost. The water in Keystone may be back due to the rains we have had this summer, but what goes up also goes down, and the 5 million gallons that Mickey plans to pull out will cause the STJR to go salted soon, not in the next 5 years, but once the next real estate boom kicks back in, we are going to be in the same issues we were a few years back, by then Mickey will be draining the river for 50 million gallons.
Certainly more people use more water. The lake problem in Keystone happen to be even more localized issues.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Wakulla_Springs_Flow_Rate_G056.jpg/300px-Wakulla_Springs_Flow_Rate_G056.jpg)
The Florida aquifer is a big system that suffers regionally. The lake problem in Keystone was caused by commercial ventures in clay county and 20 years of lower than normal rain in a very localized area. The county has repaired most of the damage caused by the sand mining operations diverted water via Alligator creek and a few other runoff patterns coupled with two years of great rain patterns have paid off big time.
To the extent that the Aquifer may have been able to mitigate the problems in Keystone it's neighbors have effected the area.
I heard that every 40 yrs. the lakes in Keystone Heights go dry, and fill. Does anybody have any history confirming that?
Here's an article from today's T-U about the impact that our water use in NE FL has on counties to the west and SW of us.
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2009-10-06/story/jacksonville_area_could_pull_hard_on_inland_aquifer_forecast_says (http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2009-10-06/story/jacksonville_area_could_pull_hard_on_inland_aquifer_forecast_says)
We must begin to acknowledge that our impacts are widespread and our water use can affect other regions, as well. As long as we allow ourselves to be distracted by sidebar issues and continue to avoid the root causes of our water problem, we will continue to have water woes and will continue to needlessly spend millions of dollars on "silver bullet" solutions to our problems. We have to first admit that we have a water use problem.
Next, we will have to change the state statutes and the policies that manage and govern our water resources and direct the agencies that are charged with this task. The water issues that are starting to grab headlines didn't pop up overnight. They have been in the making for decades and unfortunately are just now getting our attention.
Ron Littlepage's recent column does a pretty good job of summing up the water problem.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-10-16/story/florida_needs_to_follow_lead_of_texas_in_protecti (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/ron_littlepage/2009-10-16/story/florida_needs_to_follow_lead_of_texas_in_protecti)
No one in Florida wants to accept personal responsibility for the problem, and no one is demonstrating the bold leadership that is needed to implement the significant changes that are necessary in how we manage, allocate, and use water in this state.
We talk about the importance of conserving water, yet residents continue to thumb their noses at the irrigation rule, local governments don't go far enough to effectively enforce the ordinances, and the water management districts continue to give away water to whoever comes asking.
As a result of our inefficient and wasteful use of water, significant battles are ensuing over water in this state. North Florida is trying to stop Central Florida from taking water from the river to use for irrigation and eventually drinking purposes. Recently, Lake County and Groveland sued the water management district to prevent the Niagara bottling plant from getting a permit for nearly 500,000 gallons of water a day from the aquifer in their community. Marion County is in an ongoing legal battle with an applicant trying to suck water from the aquifer to sell to a bottled water company. Now, Alachua and counties to our west are concerned that we may be overpumping from the aquifer causing harm to their springs, rivers, and groundwater supplies. This has only just begun.
The stakes are extremely high, and there is no telling how ugly this will get, if we don't get a handle on how inefficiently we use water. Seminole County is currently utilizing questionable legal tactics to apparently try and get the upperhand in the "water war". Read the Riverkeeper blog, Riverhugger, about the sanctions filed by Seminole against Riverkeeper, its attorneys, and the City of Jax to see what I mean.
http://www.riverhugger.com/2009/10/seminole-charade.html (http://www.riverhugger.com/2009/10/seminole-charade.html)
I just hope we all wake up real soon and realize what a precious and limited resource water really is and how foolish it is (both economically and environmentally) to continue to waste it.
We need a T. Boone Pickens of water! ;)
Why can't our political leaders ever show some leadership? Must we always wait until irreversible harm takes place before we even think of what to do next?
The reality is it's Developers vs. Environment/Water, and we know who always wins in the halls of government. ???