Would Jacksonville have been better off letting the Navy return to Cecil, assuming 24k jobs came along with it? Food for thought.
QuoteRandom thoughts while reflecting on my good fortune to be living in the greatest nation in world history:
- Unemployment hit 9.2 percent here in February, the Times-Union reported recently.
The same day, I walked through Regency Square Mall. Many, many stores were closed.
A few years ago, you may recall, the Navy wanted to reopen Cecil Field as a naval air station. That, it was said at the time, would have created nearly 12,000 jobs, paying an average of $53,000 each - $66,000 if you included housing and meal allowances.
And there would have been about 12,000 spin-off jobs.
That would have insulated Jacksonville from the recession.
But the voters, at City Hall's urging, told the Navy to take a hike. Now, we're paying the price.
http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/phil_fretz/2009-04-06/story/cecil_field_a_look_at_what_might_have_been
(http://www.wpla.net/images/cecil%20field%20nas%20patch.jpg)
It's Never Too Late Lyrics
Artist :Steppenwolf
Words and music by John Kay and Nick St. Nicholas
Your eyes are moist, you scream and shout
As though you were a man possessed
From deep inside comes rushing forth
All the anguish you suppressed
Up on your wall hangs your degree
Your parents craved so much for you
And though you're trained to make your mark
You still don't quite know what to do
It's never too late to start all over again
To love the people you caused the pain
And help them learn your name
Oh, no, not too late
It's never too late to start all over again
Well, it's much to late to start again
To try and find a little bliss
So on your woman and your child
You release your bitterness
You drift apart some more each day
You feel the guilt and loneliness
And the God of your childhood you can't find
To save you from your emptiness
It's never too late to start all over again
To love the people you caused the pain
And help them learn your name
Oh, no, not too late
It's never too late to start all over again
You say you've only got one life to live
And when your dead your gone
Your family comes to your grave
And with tears in their eyes
They tell you, you did something wrong
"You left us alone"
Tell me who's to say after all is done
And you're finally gone, you won't be back again
You can find a way to change today
You don't have to wait 'til then
It's never too late to start all over again
To love the people you caused the pain
And help them learn your name
Oh, no, not too late
It's never too late to start all over again
Quote from: thelakelander on April 11, 2009, 12:33:46 PM
Would Jacksonville have been better off letting the Navy return to Cecil, assuming 24k jobs came along with it? Food for thought.
QuoteRandom thoughts while reflecting on my good fortune to be living in the greatest nation in world history:
- Unemployment hit 9.2 percent here in February, the Times-Union reported recently.
The same day, I walked through Regency Square Mall. Many, many stores were closed.
A few years ago, you may recall, the Navy wanted to reopen Cecil Field as a naval air station. That, it was said at the time, would have created nearly 12,000 jobs, paying an average of $53,000 each - $66,000 if you included housing and meal allowances.
And there would have been about 12,000 spin-off jobs.
That would have insulated Jacksonville from the recession.
But the voters, at City Hall's urging, told the Navy to take a hike. Now, we're paying the price.
http://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/columnists/phil_fretz/2009-04-06/story/cecil_field_a_look_at_what_might_have_been
No >:(
Not if you live on the far westside. The base was gone by the time this proposal came up, it would have been a waste of the taxpayers money to rebuild what was destroyed a few years ago. Give it up, its gone, its history. The Navy made a huge mistake in closing it, but they are going to have to deal with the results.
Quote from: civil42806 on October 14, 2009, 06:56:22 AM
Not if you live on the far westside. The base was gone by the time this proposal came up, it would have been a waste of the taxpayers money to rebuild what was destroyed a few years ago. Give it up, its gone, its history. The Navy made a huge mistake in closing it, but they are going to have to deal with the results.
Amen 8)
The Navy made a mistake closing it and I understand people had to try and move on. However hindsight being 20/20 yes we should have begged them to return just before the economy tanked. I was on the wrong side of this fight because it would have been good for Jax and the west-side home values.
If they would have returned, there would have been a market to sell homes on the Westside to Navy families moving into the area instead of people losing them to foreclosure. An influx of people moving in would have also helped our retail market weather the storm, in addition to the suppliers that would have followed, which would have created more high paying job opportunities. Nevertheless, it doesn't really matter now. What's done is done. So when is the Walmart distribution center and that jet manufacturer opening? ;)
The only ones insulated from the recession would be lawyers. Virginia Beach was not going to let the base go without a major fight. I'm sure it would be still be in the Congress, bog down (on purpose) at the Pentagon or tied up in the courts if Jax had not let it go.
The real question is why we don't we see Cecil on any of the short lists for major industrial expansions. With the new I-10 interchange open, there is one less excuse.
I voted against it and still would today.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 14, 2009, 09:43:10 AM
The only ones insulated from the recession would be lawyers. Virginia Beach was not going to let the base go without a major fight. I'm sure it would be still be in the Congress, bog down (on purpose) at the Pentagon or tied up in the courts if Jax had not let it go.
The real question is why we don't we see Cecil on any of the short lists for major industrial expansions. With the new I-10 interchange open, there is one less excuse.
We will everything isn't back to Normal and What gwb and DICK did to every working stiff in America its going to take some more time. The New World Ave area has Bridgestone and the new Cecil Field Florida State College. This area is going to be big in the near future just wait and see.
It will be big but it won't be in the near future. Give it another 20, 30 or 40 years.
The BRAC has admitted that closing Cecil was a mistake, and should've closed NAS JAX instead.
Oh what might have been had it been reversed, that is some prime ass real estate.
Quote from: reednavy on October 14, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
The BRAC has admitted that closing Cecil was a mistake, and should've closed NAS JAX instead.
Oh what might have been had it been reversed, that is some prime ass real estate.
Couldn't you have said some prime real estate? Do you remember cecil closing you were 12? NAS Jax brings in a lot more Money and Jobs then cecil did. End Of Story.
No.
Anyways, Cecil Field has more to for unlimited operations. NAS JAX is surrounded by development and the river, and has no more room to grow.
Closing Cecil was a big mistake for the COUNTRY, not just Jax. But, it was a FEDERAL decision. Locals get kudos for fighting hard to point out the error of the Fed's ways but, just like locally, a lot of decisions get made for POLITICAL reasons, not the RIGHT reasons. Thanks to selfish Virginians, this is one of those.
My reasoning, along with obviously a majority of the local voters, was that we LOCALS, on behalf of the entire COUNTRY, should not have to pay the 1 Billion dollars to restore the base . The FEDS should have paid this and it would have been a bargain if they did. Had they done so, Jax would have rolled out the red carpet for the Navy as it always has. But again, it wasn't done right.
If we had the base back on BRAC terms, we also would have a City with another one billion dollars in debt (over $1,000 per every citizen in Duval) paid by all of us for an operation that uses our infrastructure (don't forget the schools) but produces no direct property taxes. Think the City and it's taxpayers are in financial straights now?
By the way, I think, even if it now costs TWO billion dollars, the FEDS should buy it back if it is of significant military importance. TWO billion to the country is pocket change. Could have included the money in the 1 Trillion dollar stimulus package and eliminated the equivalent of 10 useless road projects like 9B (you gotta believe Jax doesn't have a monopoly on pork barrel!). 8)
It would be cheaper than building HSR in Central Florida.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 14, 2009, 11:22:37 PM
It would be cheaper than building HSR in Central Florida.
They should toll that as well. They do everything else.
Oh, it will be. $60 for a round trip ticket from Orlando to Tampa.
For all the grand standing and patriotic support for the military the fact of the matter is that many did back flips over the thought of the 'development' prospects.The restrictive no build footprint that Cecil required was a real bummer.In the 80's Brannon/Chaffee road proposal promoters even tried to tie in a future roadway to benefits to Cecils and....national defense.National defense may have in fact been compromised win the decision to close Cecil. Had the Jennings Trust known of the eventual demise of Cecil they may not have participated in the conservation lands jennings stae forest initiative.Of course some would have liked to see the forest not happen and obviously many have previewed the area and decided it was not for them or their business.
Prospects are carefully shown Oakleaf et al....the 103rd street corridor not to be profiled for sure.
The fact that NAS remained open and Cecil did not is a testament to area development politics,and the zeal of Jacksonville.
You are all old farts... I live 15 minutes west of Cecil and it being recommissioned would of greatly improved that other-wise pretty dead area out there. Jacksonville is a Navy town, and a strategic position on the Atlantic coast. Norfolk and Virginia beach DOSENT need the ENTIRE Atlantic fleet their, and a huge majority of the Naval Aviation operations. If someone was to take out Norfolk/Virgina Beach area the entire Atlantic Naval operations would be down. Thankfully Jacksonville does have Mayport NS and Jax NAS, however Cecil is one of the largest Airports in Florida. It is being wasted. 12,500' x 200' runway, you know how big that runway is... When you are flying you can see it for MILES! Well now its a Spaceport, feel any better about that.
Not many people want to live on the Westside people, so saying that the base would kill that is stupid. It would actually brought new life to the other wise dead part of Jacksonville. And how do I know, I LIVE THERE.
Lastly, you should be proud to here F/A-18s flying over your house. Without them our Navy might just of been a little less powerful.
And No, I have no-one in my family that is in the Navy. Except my great-grandfather that fought in WW-II.
Hi Mattius,
Thanks for bringing an older post back to the front.
I can see your arguments, but easily counter argue the following:
1. Even if Cecil was brought back as a Naval Base, it would take years of lawsuits between Jacksonville and the Navy versus Virginia Beach.
2. It would still take a few years after those lawsuits were finally settled before construction began to refurbish everything.
3. The base would sit idle for years until this happened.
4. The cost for my house alone to be able to handle the additional noise from the new F18s would be pushing 6 figures. (you gonna pay for that?)
When Cecil was open before, the area was nothing but strip clubs, check cashing places and trailer parks with a sub divison or two.
What has changed?
Also good points, the biggest thing I see in Cecil is a dead airport in a pretty dead area. I dont see it being really big Spaceport wise, but who knows.
Quote from: reednavy on October 14, 2009, 11:01:01 PM
No.
Anyways, Cecil Field has more to for unlimited operations. NAS JAX is surrounded by development and the river, and has no more room to grow.
Sorry guys, but NAS JAX should NEVER be closed... at least until we are launching star ships from some interplanetary Federation. For you landlubbers, NAS is the home of the US Navy's Anti-Submarine Warfare Mission. Since this mission uses helicopters and patrol planes, with a possible arrival of new blimps, it doesn't really need the 12-15,000 foot runways that are out at Cecil. The investment in NAS JAX predates 1900, actually the Navy owned Camp Blanding, which was swapped with the Army for a riverfront base. Many of the early PBY, Gooney birds, Kingfishers and Avengers called NAS home. When Germany opened unrestrained submarine warfare to the horror of the rest of the world, the die was cast for NAS. Until WWII, all nations except Germany agreed that submarines being an evil, sneaky, weapon, would surface, call the targeted ship, launch life boats, pick up the crews, and THEN sink the enemy ship. The Germans figured out before anyone else did that this didn't work, and if a ship had any armament and weaponry the submarine was history. We even spent the first year of WWII trying to figure out why the idea didn't work against the Japanese battle fleet.
The stuff that is the guts and soul of NAS would take the US Mint to replace. Closing this base more then any other in the Southeast, would be the surrender of the US Navy in the Southern hemisphere.
Cecil on the other hand has the runways and air side needs to handle a small nations air defense, (no smart ass remarks about Colombia here boys, we have about 5 Cecil's, and perhaps 20 other smaller bases). Cecil had its railroad, warehouses and hangers, but really, that's about it. The basic's were there but it was no where near as developed as NAS or Mayport, it even had less runways then Switzerland, Thunderbolt, or Lee Field. Kings Bay was an ARMY nautical transport supply base built in WWII and mothballed FOREVER! It was really never used for it's support purposes even though it sits on one of the best natural deep water harbors in America. The Navy taking it for a Submarine base, together with NAS JAX and MAYPORT made all the sense in the world. Toss in the Marine supply base at Blount Island, The joint command training station at Camp Blanding (which is now elevated above most National Guard facilities and considered a full level 2 base and joint services school center), and Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta (home of the Flying Tigers). Together these bases make a complimentary six base command zone, enough to have us listed as the number 3 nuke target by the Soviet Union, not all that long ago.
Orlando International Airport was built on one side of a VERY active McCoy Air Force Base (thus the airline code MCO) Before McCoy was closed, the Air Force and Civilians used the runways and taxied to different sides of the field. There is no reason why this couldn't be done at Cecil. As for you guys that don't want the Navy back because your home might be rattled by aircraft I have a question for you... What the hell did you think was going to land out on those runways? Hey I usually buy land near a railroad, why? Because I love that shake, rattle and roll, but I sure as hell won't cry about it. I really have no sympathy for you, it's like buying a home next to a paper and pulp mill and then complaining about the smell! WTF? What were you thinking? HELLO!OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 08, 2010, 10:50:40 PMAs for you guys that don't want the Navy back because your home might be rattled by aircraft I have a question for you... What the hell did you think was going to land out on those runways? Hey I usually buy land near a railroad, why? Because I love that shake, rattle and roll, but I sure as hell won't cry about it. I really have no sympathy for you, it's like buying a home next to a paper and pulp mill and then complaining about the smell! WTF? What were you thinking? HELLO![/b]
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, when I bought and had my house built, Cecil was a mothballed former airbase with zero percent chance of re-opening. It is no different than if I bought a house and they decided to build a new airport next to it.
If I had bought my house when Cecil was open, then I would have zero ground to stand on.
That said, even Duval county decided to build schools in the former crash zones. Why? Because cecil was closed and turned into a commerce center. There was little active air traffic.
Quote from: Mattius92 on April 08, 2010, 12:33:45 PM
You are all old farts...
This from a 17 year old? What happened to respect for your "elders"? Kids today...... ;D
Quote from: stjr on April 09, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
Quote from: Mattius92 on April 08, 2010, 12:33:45 PM
You are all old farts...
This from a 17 year old? What happened to respect for your "elders"? Kids today...... ;D
Ohh I respect them, however I do call them old farts. Just like you could call me a young dumb teen. My responses might not always seem the brightest, but I have this drive in me to want to change something or do something for my community. :D