I've noticed the past few nights out that JSO has been chasing off the bums more than usual. Anyone care to speculate as to why? Maybe the increased visibility of the area due in part to RAM? Or maybe our whining here about what I so fondly call "The Running of The Bums" in which you have to go through a veritable gauntlet every time you walk from your car to an establishment/bike down the street?
In any event, it's decent news.
Hmmmm....
That's good news!
It's been REALLY bad lately. The bums have gotten more plentiful, and a lot more aggressive. It got so bad that the Riverside Publix and that strip mall with Al's Pizza and 5 Guys had to hire an armed guard. And the Shell gas station at 5 Points is their new favorite hangout, there always seems to be one or two lurking by the pay phone there to hit you up when you try and use the air hose or put gas in your car.
I'm very happy to see the police finally doing something about it. The only thing the private guards or shop owners can do is run them off to another place, which doesn't do much good. The police can actually cart them off.
What bums? We don't get them at Dancy and Park....
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 09, 2009, 09:11:07 AM
What bums? We don't get them at Dancy and Park....
They hang out mainly by the commercial areas. 5 Points, the Park Street Publix, etc. They also hang out by the Park Street exit from I-95, and under the bridge. They are usually in the parks a too, especially by the duck pond.
But I've never seen any down by your place, or in Avondale. They don't go there, dunno why.
I've heard they've been doing a lot to curb them downtown as well. I'm told by a regular at the London Bridge that the police have been taking them to jail on the spot for various offenses, not even giving them a chance to take their belongings with them.
I've been apartment hunting in Riverside lately so i've been driving around a lot. I've been approached a couple of times by beggers while checking out a property, but at this point of living in the area for so long i'm virtually unphased by it.
With that said, how is the panhandler traffic around Stockton & College st? Hehe, ok so i'm still slightly phased by it I guess. It's one thing to go out eat/drink and deal with the change zombies from time to time, but another to have it on your door step every day.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 09, 2009, 09:30:29 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 09, 2009, 09:11:07 AM
What bums? We don't get them at Dancy and Park....
But I've never seen any down by your place, or in Avondale. They don't go there, dunno why.
Because they all used to live there. They dont want to run into old friends. ;)
Its not bad at Stockton and College. My office was right there, they used to come in and ask to wash windows, but they keep on walking. They dont hang out.
QuoteWhat bums? We don't get them at Dancy and Park
I dunno... some of the patron's of Yesterday's may fall into the bum category ;)
Quote from: Shwaz on April 09, 2009, 09:40:33 AM
QuoteWhat bums? We don't get them at Dancy and Park
I dunno... some of the patron's of Yesterday's may fall into the bum category ;)
ROFLMAO
I was in downtown Atlanta last month for 1 day. I spent maybe 1 hour walking outside total and was apprached by 5 people asking, selling, or performing for money.
Quote from: The Compound on April 09, 2009, 09:35:01 AM
Its not bad at Stockton and College. My office was right there, they used to come in and ask to wash windows, but they keep on walking. They dont hang out.
I ate at 13G the other day, and noticed your 10% tint on the office windows, along with the "Private" and "NO CASH ON PREMISES!!!" signs, along with your locked door and intercom. LOL.
So, yeah, you don't make it very inviting for bums to hang out! ;D ;D ;D
LOL yeah, I didnt get much walk in business. ;D
We have as much security as a wet blanket most days in my building. (Springfield) We had a lady not once, not twice, but 3 times in as many months come in just after lunchtime walking around to every office asking to borrow $5. It's just ridiculous. They must've banned her by now, but that don't mean a thing.
Being so close to Confederate Park has its disadvantages. Much as I'd love to sit in the park for lunch, I'm not keen on being approached by strangers when I'm trying to relax
Quote from: fsu813 on April 09, 2009, 10:28:45 AM
I was in downtown Atlanta last month for 1 day. I spent maybe 1 hour walking outside total and was apprached by 5 people asking, selling, or performing for money.
Atlanta has a different breed of panhandlers up there, those guys are some serious hustlers. In '06, one guy almost convinced me that he had a parking garage around the corner that I could park my 22' work truck in overnight and it'd only cost me 10 bucks. I started to follow him and then noticed he was leading me down a dark alley way. Common sense kicked in and I did a 180 and got outta there.
(rephrase)
My opinion about the local bums is that they're pretty laid back and usually leave you alone after you say no
Quote from: David on April 09, 2009, 11:38:35 AM
One thing you have to admit about the local bums, they're pretty laid back and usually leave you alone after you say no
Nah, I find the ones here at least as aggressive as Atlanta, maybe worse...
At least in ATL, they'll try and wash your window and beg for money. Here, they just bang on the car window and demand money. Tell them "no", and they'll curse at you. Try and be polite and say "I don't have any cash" and they'll call you a liar. It's ridiculous.
I don't know where all these allegedly polite bums are around here, but most of the ones I run into aren't polite at all, they're downright rude and pushy.
No way, the bums here are so unmotivated that if you just keep walking past they leave you alone. I didn't say they were polite, I just said they dont have the energy to keep bothering after you say no or walk past.
If you're stopping when some total stranger says "hey man, let me ask you a question" that might be your problem. You're getting sucked into the vortex.
I've heard every story under the sun when it comes to panhandlers, I must give off a "go away" vibe or something.
This is all way too subjective to really debate about though. I can't speak for your experiences, but from my point of view, I've noticed in some larger cities the panhandling is of a "higher quality"
The ploys are more clever, the stories are more believable. They even dress sharper! Don't you know Atlanta busses their less talented hobos here?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 09, 2009, 11:46:58 AM
I don't know where all these allegedly polite bums are around here, but most of the ones I run into aren't polite at all, they're downright rude and pushy.
I'll second that.
Growing up in NY & NJ I encountered my fair share of bums ... but all they ever did was stand on the side of the road with a paper cup. You either put money in it, or you didn't. Either that or they came hauling ass behind you and swiped your bag or wallet. Those are my kind of bums.
Here they all have some story. And my experience with Jax bums has not been good ...
1) Gave a bum a dollar -they replied "that's it?"
2) Husband gave a bum half of a gas station sandwhich - took it, then said you don't have money? um no. then walked away with the sandwhich
3) husband gave a lady bum by burrito gallery a dollar bc he felt bad i guess bc it was a woman... then we see her at London Bridge drinking a $4 import! Not even some cheap beer or a gas station 32 oz Hurricane. That's a crafty bum with some expensive tastes. lol
All kidding around aside... I'm sick of bums. That's 95% of the reason I don't miss my apartment on stockton & park... towards the end I just had it. They were there a lot because of the bus stop right there. They would come up to me in my car. One time I literally thought a guy was dying in my front yard so I called 911 and the fireman came... they were like omg he is a regular and hauled him off. He was going through alcohol withdrawal vomiting and whatnot. I still love Riverside - just not the bums. I could never enjoy the park by 5 pts (not memorial) b/c there was always like 2 dozen of them asking me for something when I walked my dog.
I have thought about volunteering somehow to help these people but I'm sorry I am one of those people stuck in the mindset that if they want to not be a bum they will find a way... all they do is depress me and piss me off. I'd rather spend my time for some other cause - sorry if my comments offend some people.
Quote from: David on April 09, 2009, 11:57:06 AM
Don't you know Atlanta busses their less talented hobos here?
haha! But you are right you do have to give off that "Don't you dare effing talk to me vibe." That works better than anything else...
Quote from: stephElf on April 09, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
2) Husband gave a bum half of a gas station sandwhich
3) husband gave a lady bum by burrito gallery a dollar
Thanks. Oh wait you forgot some.
4) husband let bum borrow his car
5) husband gave bum title to house
6) husband is currently playing chicken against a train
7) husband is a complete idiot
Quote from: Bewler on April 09, 2009, 12:49:59 PM
Thanks. Oh wait you forgot some.
4) husband let bum borrow his car
5) husband gave bum title to house
6) husband is currently playing chicken against a train
7) husband is a complete idiot
there is nothing wrong with being a nice person. it just doesn't pay for j-ville bums. they are greedy and unappreciative.
So... anybody else thinking about the South Park solution yet?
Quote from: stephElf on April 09, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
2) Husband gave a bum half of a gas station sandwhich - took it, then said you don't have money? um no. then walked away with the sandwhich
Same thing happened to me...
A while back, I had just come from Chick Fil-A at Roosevelt Mall, and they had this 2-4-1 deal going on, so I wound up with 2 extra sandwiches. I was getting off the Roosevelt Expwy. at the Edgewood Ave. exit and there was a bum there holding a sign saying "Hungry...will work blah blah blah". I felt bad, and rolled the window down and said "Hey, I got an extra sandwich...". The guy goes "You got any money?". I said "no", and his response was: "Nah I don't want that $h!t".
And I said this before on another thread, but the ones around here have an ego on them! It's very annoying. You have to suffer through the 3 minute-long speech about "Now, I ain't never asked for no handout in my life..." before they go right on to ask you for a handout.
And I've tried just walking right past them and ignoring them. I did that to one lady-bum by the Subway/Wachovia Bank in 5 points, she followed me from behind and pushed me and said "Pay attention when someone's talking to you, SON!". I know you're not supposed to hit a woman, but I came within a millimeter of smacking her in the face. She really startled me.
Out of all the ones I've run into, be it here, NYC, ATL, BOS, you name it, the ones here (at least in my experience) are the absolute worst. They're rude a$$holes, and I'm completely sick of dealing with them. I for one am very glad the cops are finally cracking down.
I was just poking fun Steph, I should have included the smily wink.
Quote from: Cliffs_Daughter on April 09, 2009, 01:06:38 PM
So... anybody else thinking about the South Park solution yet?
Haha, California is pretty far though. Maybe they'd settle for Miami?
I'll reiterate my methodology on handling bums again: be rude, aggressive, loud, pushy, and just plain crazy before they have a chance too. Some will yell and cuss back but they'll be doing it as they run in the other direction. If we make them feel as unwanted as possible, the transitory ones might be more inclined to move on and the more permanent ones may look for haunts elsewhere in town.
I am glad the cops are cracking down. Don't worry about offending people with your comments steph. Some of my opinions on the matter are very offensive, so I'm keeping them out of a public forum and just sticking to being a heartless bastard. :)
Amen Deuce. It works doesn't it?
I've just had panhandlers in other cities literally chase me, not give up even when displaying the same apathy i've displayed here. It must be the out-of-towner vibe.
If you want them to leave you alone and at least appear to offer help you could point them towards the soup kitchens, homeless shelters around town.
Or you could just ask them for a dollar when you see one approaching you. That seems to work too.
another tactic that works is
"Sure, I can help you out - do you accept credit cards?"
I really pissed a bum off with that line at the LB.
yeah but what if they say yes? haha
Quote from: David on April 09, 2009, 03:01:34 PM
yeah but what if they say yes? haha
Where do I swipe the card? OH GOD!
Quote from: Deuce on April 09, 2009, 01:25:30 PM
I'll reiterate my methodology on handling bums again: be rude, aggressive, loud, pushy, and just plain crazy before they have a chance too. Some will yell and cuss back but they'll be doing it as they run in the other direction. If we make them feel as unwanted as possible, the transitory ones might be more inclined to move on and the more permanent ones may look for haunts elsewhere in town.
I am glad the cops are cracking down. Don't worry about offending people with your comments steph. Some of my opinions on the matter are very offensive, so I'm keeping them out of a public forum and just sticking to being a heartless bastard. :)
Correct, once I learned to act crazier than they do, I've never had a problem with 'em.
Quote from: stephElf on April 09, 2009, 12:58:08 PM
there is nothing wrong with being a nice person. it just doesn't pay for j-ville bums. they are greedy and unappreciative.
Unlike those bums from Yale & Harvard.
Alright this is sad. Jacksonville is so desperate for an identity we're trying to claim that our homeless population is unique to other areas haha.
But back on topic, the downtown ambassadors are out on patrol late into the night. I've seen them deflect several panhandlers from harassing the club goers on Bay St. The city is definitely toughening its stance in that sense. They're really trying to make people feel comfortable when they visit.
they are different here! other people agreed with me.
in seattle i gave a bum a dollar bc he was playing guitar and had a nice dog... he said thank you and god bless you.
in NYC they will say the same thing or just nod their head.
none of this - thats it? i dont want your food give me MONEY NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
One of the strangest things I've ever seen was while visiting Prague a few years ago. The beggars literally prostrate themselves for hours at a time - kneeling/lying face down on the cobblestones with a cup in their outstretched hands. It looked painful. Apparently that is the "appropriate" way to beg; people just walked by and dropped coins in their cup, with no conversation whatsoever. It was almost surreal, as if they were still in the Middle Ages asking for "alms for the poor."
Their posture made them seem reverent toward their anonymous benfactors. It was as if each party knew his/her place and understood the rules of the game. Nothing like the aggressive panhandlers we have here.
Quote from: stephElf on April 09, 2009, 03:34:08 PM
in seattle i gave a bum a dollar bc he was playing guitar and had a nice dog... he said thank you and god bless you.
that guy wasn't a bum he was a musician. It's a fine line.
Quote from: David on April 09, 2009, 03:44:29 PM
Quote from: stephElf on April 09, 2009, 03:34:08 PM
in seattle i gave a bum a dollar bc he was playing guitar and had a nice dog... he said thank you and god bless you.
that guy wasn't a bum he was a musician. It's a fine line.
no he was def a bum. he lived on the streets with a pack of them. a few had scrawny dogs.
dave stop disagreeing with me or i'm gonna gouge your eyes out and get us both kicked off metrojax
I think Steph and Dave should fight it out.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on April 09, 2009, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: David on April 09, 2009, 03:01:34 PM
yeah but what if they say yes? haha
Where do I swipe the card? OH GOD!
ewwwwwwwww.....
You just HAD to go there, didn't you...now I can't get the image outta my head ;D
Just trying to get back on point, elf!
Either way, it’s good to see some action being taken against what I’d hate calling it a “problem†but it really does discourage most people from enjoying what an otherwise great area has to offer.
I guess my other point on this whole thing is "Where in the world are they taking them to?" Are they just dumping them in the jail for misc. misdemeanors? Or are they dropping them off at a shelter?
I know it sounds like we're all being callous buttholes when we talk about the homeless problem. But it is a "problem". As I stated in a previous thread, there are social services available to these people. But they frankly make more money panhandling to support their habits than they do if they had a low wage job.
There are a myriad of different solutions. But I know that (at least among the 5-points group of bums) they don't want help. They want to make their cash, get high, and go sleep in the park/under a house/in my back yard (which has happened several times.)
Quite a perplexing situation. One I plan on contemplating while I'm on "jorts watch" at steamworks tonight. :P
"jorts watch"
LMAO
Back when I first moved into my house back in '01 or '02, I had a bum come to my door at 10pm or so, dont ask why I answered. I dont know.
He said, Im trying to get $5 to get some pants because Im starting work at the new store down the street. (the gay Publix).
He said they were on layaway at a thrift store.
I called his bluff and asked, oh, what color. He said blue. I said what size? He said 32 waist. I said, oh hold on, I have some just like that I'll give them to you.
Then he said oh no i mean 34 waist and 32 length. I said oh, I have those too, hold on let me get them.
He said oh no, I have to get those, they are holding them for me. I said, well Im not giving you money for something that I can already give you, maybe you should just ask for what you really want next time.
He got all pissed and took off.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on April 09, 2009, 04:12:45 PM
I guess my other point on this whole thing is "Where in the world are they taking them to?" Are they just dumping them in the jail for misc. misdemeanors? Or are they dropping them off at a shelter?
They should take them to the beach, don't they send their bums downtown?
Actually, it would be nice to take them to St Johns County, Ponte Vedra or Queens Harbor. That's where the bleeding hearts live that feel it's necessary to come feed them with lots of stuff that litter or they pay to fund another shelter downtown. Move them to where these people live, they apparently "care" so much. Maybe they'll let them stay the night and give them a bath and a home made cookie.
This is the main reason I don't carry cash anymore while working. I don't know how many times I have heard, "Mailman, [insert sob story here], got any change?"
poverty is so inconvenient
had an interesting encounter with one of downtown's plethora of panhandlers today at lunch. While walking on Forsyth street down near the bus station this guy comes up, he's got a full loaf of bread in a bag and then gives me the blah blah blah on his unfortunate situation and asks me to take him to Big Petes for pizza. I ask him about the bread and he responds that its only bread, he wants something substantial and I ask 'like Pizza'? I tell him that he's actually in luck, mere blocks from where we walking was this great place called Clara White and I tell him that lunch is in full effect there. He then asked for me to just give him some money and I advised that I really wasn't an ATM. I was then called a "cracker blankety blank" yep, fun stuff! Lpve those guys.
Quote from: sheclown on April 09, 2009, 07:34:32 PM
poverty is so inconvenient
Just because you're poor doesn't mean you have to be a rude dick to people...
If these guys were even remotely polite, it wouldn't bother me. But they're not. A lot of them are so obnoxious, arrogant, and argumentative that they make you feel "attacked". That's what bothers me.
I'm on the Southwest CPAC (I have to admit, the meetings are generally a total waste of time IMHO), and we get regular reports from JSO about criminal activity, homeless movement, etc. I'd guess half of our "homeless" are the criminals that have been pushed out of other sectors because of JSO crackdowns; the other half are true derelicts who naturally gravitate toward the densest part of Jacksonville, understanding that's where the services are. We have lots of familiar homeless faces here--the older gal with the dog, the Asian gal who just paces back and forth--who seem completely harmless and clearly could benefit from help. But we've also got the cross-light button pushers who hang by the bridges who totally piss me off. We all love urban living, and unfortunately these guys come with it. Still, it could be worse; I lived in NYC and had to step over bums every night to get to my door.
Quote from: grimss on April 09, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
I'm on the Southwest CPAC (I have to admit, the meetings are generally a total waste of time IMHO), and we get regular reports from JSO about criminal activity, homeless movement, etc.
How's the level of renegade church bloggers on your side of town, per the JSO? That seems to be a new priority with them! :D
Quote from: sheclown on April 09, 2009, 07:34:32 PM
poverty is so inconvenily ent
Don't confuse poverty with panhandling and hustling. Those are two totally different things.
Most of the people we're talking about we see on a regular basis. Giving them a dollar isn't going to change their life.
Why dehumanize a class a people who are already so desperate? For some of them, it is all they have left.
Quote from: Shwaz on April 09, 2009, 04:29:41 PM
"jorts watch"
LMAO
I had to do it... :D
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jorts
1. Jorts
Jean shorts. Worn mostly by children and douchebags. Jorts are perhaps the easiest way to recognize people you will not like. If you wear jorts, you probably don't talk to girls. The term "jorts" does not apply to jean shorts worn by black people, as those are entirely acceptable.
The kid next to me was definitely a total dick; he was wearing jorts.
2. Jorts
a combination of the words "jean" and "shorts" used to describe the hideous attire, usually sported by NASCAR afficianados and men over 40. Sometimes Jorts are accessorized with a lovely cellphone belt clip and a braided leather belt, but not always. Sometimes the Jorts wearer lets the Jorts speak for themselves.
While at a baseball game, I noticed a plethora of adult males with no shirts on, drinking copious amounts of beer while proudly wearing Jorts.
3. jorts
jean shorts, such as those worn by male Florida Gator fans at the Georgia-Florida football game.
"Don't talk to him; he's obviously a Florida fan with those jorts he's wearing."
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 10, 2009, 07:39:29 AM
jean shorts, such as those worn by male Florida Gator fans at the Georgia-Florida football game.
"Don't talk to him; he's obviously a Florida fan with those jorts he's wearing."
>:( :( :o ??? ::)
Quote from: sheclown on April 10, 2009, 07:28:14 AM
Why dehumanize a class a people who are already so desperate? For some of them, it is all they have left.
Being rude and yelling at people is all they have left?
QuoteOne of the strangest things I've ever seen was while visiting Prague a few years ago. The beggars literally prostrate themselves for hours at a time - kneeling/lying face down on the cobblestones with a cup in their outstretched hands. It looked painful. Apparently that is the "appropriate" way to beg; people just walked by and dropped coins in their cup, with no conversation whatsoever. It was almost surreal, as if they were still in the Middle Ages asking for "alms for the poor."
I saw this in Prague too on the Charles Bridge. Definitely an affective, peaceful way of begging.
What pisses me off is that all the bums i see in riverside asking for money, I also see them in the jiffy buying 6-packs and cigarettes.
Last friday 3 kids were begging for money outside of the jiffy at Margaret and Post (we call it "tropical tonys"). I said I dont have any cash, and they said they were hungry, so i told them id buy them some to-go from the chineese place, so I did.. Yesterday, I was behind one of those guys at that same jiffy that I bought food for, and he bought over $10 in beer and cigs. Im done!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2009, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: sheclown on April 10, 2009, 07:28:14 AM
Why dehumanize a class a people who are already so desperate? For some of them, it is all they have left.
Being rude and yelling at people is all they have left?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2009, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: sheclown on April 10, 2009, 07:28:14 AM
Why dehumanize a class a people who are already so desperate? For some of them, it is all they have left.
Being rude and yelling at people is all they have left?
And everyone who posts on this forum is rude and uncaring. Of course not, the point is that not every homeless person is either. Characterizing all homeless (bums) into one category, as most often happens here, is as wrong as saying all blacks are lazy, all rich people are snobs, ETC., and it is just wrong to do it. You personally may think that “not all are†when you post, but the thread ends up portraying that they are.
Quote from: The Compound on April 10, 2009, 09:26:27 AM
I said I dont have any cash, and they said they were hungry, so i told them id buy them some to-go from the chineese place, so I did.. Yesterday, I was behind one of those guys at that same jiffy that I bought food for, and he bought over $10 in beer and cigs. Im done!
Confucius say 'a fool with coin in pocket get taken to cleaner'.
See that's what most of us are talking about, situations like that. No one here is purposely dehumanizing anyone. There's other ways to help the poor besides giving a dollar to someone outside of a gas station. You have charity you can donate to, volunteer work, programs etc. Those are for people who are willing to make an effort to get back on their feet, or at least attempt to.
A lot of the characters we see around the core area simply choose not to...they've got people giving them money on a daily basis so they figure why bother.
I spent too many years of my 20's on the corner of Adams & Ocean at the London Bridge pub getting to know a lot of their stories, at least the ones downtown. Most are mentally ill or addicted to drugs and it's just beyond the reach of an average person's help.
Don't assume all those people are penniless; I know for a fact that some of the "homeless" in Riverside receive a check on the 3rd of every month.
Exactly. I try to stick to the term panhandler.
Not all are as misfortunate as they appear.
"Bum" works for me.
Glad to see that there are others who practice my methodology. I got some other great ideas from this post that I might use too.
"Actually, it would be nice to take them to St Johns County, Ponte Vedra or Queens Harbor. That's where the bleeding hearts live that feel it's necessary to come feed them with lots of stuff that litter or they pay to fund another shelter downtown." - I completely agree!
"Most are mentally ill or addicted to drugs and it's just beyond the reach of an average person's help." -If they are mentally ill, then they should be institutionalized whether they want to be or not. Sorry to be a fascist here, but if they have no family to take care of them, then they should not be on the streets. They are a potential danger to themselves and others. In this case, we should put the concerns of society above the individual. As for drug addiction, I'm an addict myself and there are plenty of resources in this society that can be utilized to get clean (if you want too). That "excuse" holds no weight in my book. This is also the primary reason I never ever give money. I know that I am most likely enabling someone else's addiction.
Quotespent too many years of my 20's on the corner of Adams & Ocean at the London Bridge pub getting to know a lot of their stories, at least the ones downtown.
We must know each other... 8) :)
Yeah i am curoius as to who your real life counter-part is, Mr. Bridgetroll!
I don't frequent LB too often anymore. I followed Ian & Mary Anne over to shanty awhile back. I hardly ever see any bums over there. At least in the immediate area.
Have been big fans of Ian and Maryanne also... I dont get to Shanty as often as I would like. :)
Quote from: strider on April 10, 2009, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 10, 2009, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: sheclown on April 10, 2009, 07:28:14 AM
Why dehumanize a class a people who are already so desperate? For some of them, it is all they have left.
Being rude and yelling at people is all they have left?
And everyone who posts on this forum is rude and uncaring. Of course not, the point is that not every homeless person is either. Characterizing all homeless (bums) into one category, as most often happens here, is as wrong as saying all blacks are lazy, all rich people are snobs, ETC., and it is just wrong to do it. You personally may think that “not all are†when you post, but the thread ends up portraying that they are.
Look. We seem to have a miscommunication here...
I'm NOT talking about whatever percentage of them are actually mentally or physically handicapped, and truly cannot care for themselves. What I'm talking about are the VAST MAJORITY of them around who are perfectly able to work, but either make more money panhandling, or don't want to work because that would cut into their drinking/drug time.
Out of this category, which includes most/all of the riverside bums I see all the time, most of them are rude arrogant jackasses who "demand" rather than "beg" or "ask", and who will tell you off and make wisecracks if you don't give them money, and will call you a liar if you say you don't have any. They get in your face, are pushy and aggressive, and I don't think most of them are even homeless.
When I say "bum" I'm not talking about "homeless people" I'm talking about "panhandlers".
I have noted regular panhandlers for YEARS around Jax. Most have the same MO so I imagine they must be taking a course somewhere on how to perfect the trade. From my observations,these must be the basics:
1. Make a cardboard sign.
2. Put on sign "Homeless-no job" and the kicker, "God Bless".
3. Don't shave, take a shower, or apply makeup for a week. Muss hair.
4. Dress in ragged clothes purchased at the Goodwill Thrift store.
5. Stake out traffic lights at the foot of ramps to bridges and interstates. Downtown is prime territory since no one lives nearby so there won't be any complaints from the "neighbors" and panhandling is already prevalent leading to a certain level of acceptance.
6. Appear at location no more than once every month lest someone begin to recognize you doing this as a vocation.
7. Avoid confrontations with public asking why, if you need help, you aren't at the homeless center getting it, or, alternatively, why are you "begging" for 5+ years straight, or why, if you can stand in the hot sun for multiple straight hours you aren't fit for a job?
8. Avoid filing tax returns for all those cash gifts you ripped off. Wouldn't want to subsidize welfare for others.
I give my $$$ to charities who will screen out the truly-in-need from those who need to be truly outed!
You know, one of my strongest beliefs is that people that make excuses are the cause for the majority of societies ills. There should never be an excuse only action, excusing behavior is a crutch that enables a person to continue on their downward spiral. I would advise anyone that disagrees to speak with a judge, cop or detective. They'll tell you how the parents made excuses for their childrens bad behavior, they grow up to do bad things to others or themselves. Then you see those that commit crime or become the bum alcoholics and you hear that they are victim of (fill in the blank, surroundings, bad education, abuse, etc..). Always an excuse, it never ends....
Quote from: strider on April 10, 2009, 09:30:30 AM
And everyone who posts on this forum is rude and uncaring. Of course not, the point is that not every homeless person is either.
For the record, I am rude and uncaring.
8)
And I only care a teeny bit. Last nights "panhandler" count was 1.
The great bum purge? Oh, if wishing made it so.
It is my belief that the homeless do get the help they need, most of the bums and panhandlers are vagrants. There is a big difference between someone that is homeless do to just plan bad luck or bad circumstances. A vagrant is nothing but a parasight on society that chooses to be a burdon on the rest of us. Yes there are a few mentally ill people that fall though the cracks and I do think they should be taken care of by there family's and if there family is unable or unwilling to take care of them then the state should step up and take care of them.
The idea of moving all the social services to the more affluent parts of town is great but another option is to move them to the very northern part of duval county of HW 95, There is nothing up there no one to panhandle from. It could be made into a commune if you don't work you don't eat, plain and simple
My approach is simple when a panhandler approaches me: I sternly look the person in the eye and firmly say, "No."
No one has ever followed me or blathered on after.
Sorry it doesn't work for any of y'all.
JaxNole, that has been my experience as well.
It is rather strange that so many have been victimized by the "bums." )Irony here
As far as locking up the mentally ill, doesn't happen. The mental ward is now the sidewalk. The shelters are full. And innocent people are being locked up because they have no place to sleep.
And btw, are there con men who pose as homeless? Of course. Just like there are con men who pose in all occupations and walks of life.
QuoteDon't assume all those people are penniless; I know for a fact that some of the "homeless" in Riverside receive a check on the 3rd of every month.
That is why I always tell them I spent all my money on aliens and beer. No one ever knows how to respond....
How much does an alien cost nowadays? :)
As far as locking up the mentally ill, doesn't happen. The mental ward is now the sidewalk. The shelters are full. And innocent people are being locked up because they have no place to sleep."
No one is locked up for beiing homeless. It is not against the law to have nowhere to sleep. In a small area of downtown, those found camping are offered shelter or must move on. Only those that refuse to do either are arrested. Others are arrested for various charges, mostly consuming alcohol on a public way (usually a ticket but some argue and thus, choose jail), disorderly intoxication, and minor drug or paraphernalia possession.
It used to be that JSO would pick them up and drive them to the county line and tell them to keep on moving. but somewhere along the line, bums became this noble class of people and they started to be called homeless, disenfranchised, whatever. i used to volunteer at Sulzbacher and i say used to because there were so many people coming there that were fully capable to working, etc and they would simply complain about the food, showers, other guests, etc.
Ask St Pete how their "tent city" is working out for them. Nothing shuts the door on urban core improvement than a hobo invasion. I see a lot of posts on this site about light rale, downtown development etc. People move out to the Burbs because there is a perceived level of safety (even though they have the same crimes if not more as we do) and gas is still cheap.
Until you can convince "John & Kate Plus 8" that it is safe to raise a family in the downtown, Riverside/Avondale area...it isn't going to happen. Bums only serve as a visual reminder to them that they made the right choice when choosing sprawl.
(ha)
i'm not sure what you mean by "it isn't going to happen", but Riverside/Avondale wouldn't be a good example to use......noone has a problem living there including the "plus 8" crowd.
however, to your larger point.....homeless concentrated in one place is not good, whereever that is. The Southside ceratinly has enough room, enough resources, etc to have shelters / oganizations / work assistance for the homeless.
QuoteIt used to be that JSO would pick them up and drive them to the county line and tell them to keep on moving.
And if they came back the sheriff would take them to jail and turn the fire hose on them. One time it back fired at the station and one vagrant broke free, beat up all the cops, stole a dirt bike and ran up to the hills where he started killing spree that ended with him blowing up the entire town. That vagrant was John Rambo.
John Rambo! Thanks for that post. That was so funny that I laughed out loud. Thanks for that.
Very soon we'll all be bums.......what then?
Heights Unknown
Quote from: heights unknown on April 27, 2009, 02:06:41 PM
Very soon we'll all be bums.......what then?
Heights Unknown
Now there's an optimistic assessment of our economy!
As long as we're all as awesome of bums as Rambo was then we'll be ok.
Oh man, I can't wait to destroy a Vietnamese village with explosive arrows. This is gonna be great!
I used to care, but now I just glower at them and growl. My roomate gets suckered all the time. Although, there are guys who actually do what they say. We had a guy come to our house, offer to rake our lawn and bag the leaves and he actually did it. Gave him 20$ because he deserved it. Came back at like 11pm one night drunk as heck lookin for more payment for the job he already did. I think we either gave him 5$ or sent him on his way.
Quote from: Ron Mexico on April 27, 2009, 10:06:13 AM
It used to be that JSO would pick them up and drive them to the county line and tell them to keep on moving. but somewhere along the line, bums became this noble class of people and they started to be called homeless, disenfranchised, whatever. i used to volunteer at Sulzbacher and i say used to because there were so many people coming there that were fully capable to working, etc and they would simply complain about the food, showers, other guests, etc.
Ask St Pete how their "tent city" is working out for them. Nothing shuts the door on urban core improvement than a hobo invasion. I see a lot of posts on this site about light rale, downtown development etc. People move out to the Burbs because there is a perceived level of safety (even though they have the same crimes if not more as we do) and gas is still cheap.
Until you can convince "John & Kate Plus 8" that it is safe to raise a family in the downtown, Riverside/Avondale area...it isn't going to happen. Bums only serve as a visual reminder to them that they made the right choice when choosing sprawl.
That's kind of mean don't you think Ron? Homelessness can happen to anyone at anytime. I think we should be more humane and offer them a chance to get back to normalcy, then if they refuse that chance, then maybe they deserve a degree of degradation as punishment, but be careful not to judge cause it could be us.
Oh Ron; let me commend you on your outrageous (if that's your picture) 1980's Iolaish hairdo; how in the world did you come up with that and who is your hairdresser? I hope it's not a cat (smile). ;)
Heights Unknown
I think they go back and forth between springfield & riverside....there haven't been any in springfield in a few years, but they're everywhere in 5points. The new spot most def. in downtown...makes it hard to be compassionate. :-\