Metro Jacksonville

Ride or Fly - The Choice is Yours Jacksonville:

THE MOTHER OF ALL AMTRAK - FDOT - JTA SURVEYS

Cast your votes up to 42 times, marking everything you fully agree with.

...and YOU thought we needed High Speed Rail? ...and this is alongside Roosevelt!

Section ONE:

ROUTES> Of 17 possible rail routes with a Jacksonville hub, which ones would you likely use. Check as many as apply.

I'd prefer to catch the train > at: Come on and give us your REAL choice or choices.

All Schedules> For over 100 years Florida has had a very strange and unique railroad passenger traffic pattern, what do YOU think it should be?

JTC> Transportation Center JTA has a plan, it's been in these pages more then once, take a look and see what you think?

Interface with Amtrak> JTA has bus and Skyway, with plans for Commuter Rail and Streetcars, how should we plan this operation? Check as many as apply.

TERMINAL Plans> Do you think FDOT is selling Jacksonville short on the rail terminal or is it doing a great job? And what about those other little details?

Thank you for spending the time to work through this, we'll be sharing it and the comments with AMTRAK, JTA, FDOT and GADOT, as long as we get enough feedback...

Down the FEC in other times...
Or let er rip on the Norfolk Southern back in the day...
Call her what you will, but on the Seaboard THIS is a Solarium Lounge.

FEEL FREE TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE ABOVE SUBJECTS.

OCKLAWAHA

I realize this is the weekend but out of some 42 views we've only got 9 votes... We've got to do better IF you want to see our train station reopen.  

OCKLAWAHA

done. and I voted you to lead the task force. Make sure you serve drinkable coffee at the stations. ;) When I used to live in MA, I loved the express train to NY or NJ. Much more comfortable, less hassle, less expensive and plenty of real food and drink.

I voted but it is a pretty huge survey... :)

Quote from: fatcat on April 04, 2009, 03:50:35 PM
done. and I voted you to lead the task force. Make sure you serve drinkable coffee at the stations. ;) When I used to live in MA, I loved the express train to NY or NJ. Much more comfortable, less hassle, less expensive and plenty of real food and drink.

True, a lot of people just don't get the appeal of rail travel... take a deep breath... relax.

(http://www.sanjoseca.gov/planning/Historic/images/arches.gif)
You COULD drive...

(http://blogs.pitch.com/fatcity/airlinefood.jpg)
You COULD fly...

(http://i.usatoday.net/travel/_photos/2007/11/13/greyhound-topper.jpg)
You COULD take the Bus...

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/427841800_636cbec5cc.jpg)
OR YOU COULD DINE WITH THE STARS ON AMTRAK!

ANY QUESTIONS?

OCKLAWAHA

Good work Y'all, for all the noise we make about improving our city transportation, only 14 out of 100 readers have bothered to fill out the poll.

PLEASE DO IT! If not for yourself, for your childrens, childrens, children!

OCKLAWAHA

Good survey - I think it's very important to restore the i-95 line (here->daytona->melbourne->etc). Doing that can get us as a destination for travelers going to cities in deeper in florida from out of state. I would hate to see a mid-state/i-75 line (valdosta, ga->gainsville->ocala->orlando...etc) and completely miss us.
We need to make it happen!

Great to see that a few mopre joined in the poll. If we really want to make a statement to Tallahassee and Amtrak, the other 84 that have read this post better get down and fill in the survey before the clock runs out! WE NEED YOU! Amtrak AND Tallahassee have said, "We would expand Amtrak in Northeast Florida, but "THEY" don't care, or "THEY" don't want it! Show them we do care and fill out the survey today.

Thanks to Coredumped and all the others for getting on the train!

OCKLAWAHA

My votes are in.

Things should pick up during the week.  Don't sweat it Ock!  :)

My votes are in!

Of course I voted you guys to lead the task force.....

Did my part!  Hooray nominating Ock and Lake for leading the task force!

I voted, but dump the dining car, the best car on the train is the bar car with the bud and Heineken beer selection. One class of people up from the bus.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 07, 2009, 01:14:28 AM
I voted, but dump the dining car, the best car on the train is the bar car with the bud and Heineken beer selection. One class of people up from the bus.

I don't know the trains you've been riding MTRAININJAX but I think I'd rate the train roughly equal with the cruise ship. The Airlines have become the flying cattle cars of the 21st century. Buses? Depends on Motor Coach or Bus, and even then the TYPE of motor coach. There is a world of difference between an MCI on a JTA commute and a SILVER EAGLE, PREVOST CAR, VAN HOOL, SETRA, or VOLVO.

(http://www.amigos3.com/images/train/ChepebarcarC.jpg)

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Doctor_K on April 06, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Did my part!  Hooray nominating Ock and Lake for leading the task force!

Thanks, that question was put in there as a bit of comedy, but who knows? Maybe it will have some effect in getting the politico's to open their eye and ears to our rants.  

OCKLAWAHA

Nah, it NEEDS a beverage car of some sort. Beer, wine, coffee, espresso, and little sandwiches like the Starbucks does... but it does NOT have to be Starbucks. Although seriously, who else would be granted that job?

Okay, I voted.  Now, how do I vote again?  Unless I mis-read a previous post, I can vote up to 42 times.  My boss is gone for the day and I planned on imitating a dead guy in Chicago - I was going to vote early and often.  But every time I try and navigate back to the page to vote again, all I can see are the results.  There doesn't seem to be a way to vote again.  What am I missing?   ???

Yes, you could vote 40+ times, because there are at least that many answers which you might agree with.
For example just because you vote that you'd use the train to Atlanta via Valdosta, doesn't mean you couldn't vote to ALSO use the train to Daytona Beach. If you think you would use all of the trains, then answer all of the poll questions...

When you get down to the stations and JTA questions, you simply pick the ones that you like best.  

OCKLAWAHA

I am in favor of expanding Amtrak, and I know a lot of politicians pay lip service to it, but I often hear them use the term "self-sustaining".  I know that metropolitan mass transit is almost never going to turn a profit, and that's ok.. but is there any realistic expectation that something like Amtrak could ever turn a profit and/or be "self-sustaining".  It doesn't seem very likely to me.  I wish Amtrak were more available and I would certainly use it, but I just don't see many routes outside of, say, the congested Boston-DC corridor having much chance of profitability.  Am I wrong?

Amtrak believes they can break even running a better system in Florida.  Imo, that's about as close to any type of transportation system being self-sustaining.  The only thing standing in their way is FDOT.

A better system in Florida would be good.  Out of selfishness I was thinking more regionally.  If I need to go to Tampa or Orlando I'd just as soon drive.  One of my best friends lives in Atlanta and my wife's whole family is in Richmond, so I am far more interested in viable service toward those destinations, but routes such as that are more my worry on self-sustainability.

A Florida system would benefit the region as well.

1. Jax is the rail gateway to Florida.  All those extra trains would meet up here.  In other words, our proposed downtown transportation center could become a statewide rail hub.  This means more people passing through downtown and LaVilla.  That would create additional retail opportunities in the core and increase ridership on the skyway.  Well paying support jobs to keep the hub up and running would be created as well.

2. With 1.3 million residents, the First Coast is large enough for a few satellite stations on different lines, in areas like Orange Park, St. Augustine, the Avenues/Avenues Walk and Macclenny.  With better service frequency, this means it would be possible for direct rail travel between our congested suburban communities and the core.  It would also be possible to hop on a train from DT to the St. Augustine historic district.  These satellite stations could also become spots for transit oriented development, thus creating good paying jobs and sustainable living options in our sprawlburgs.

3. Upgrading track capacity for commuter rail costs money that we don't have.  If Amtrak upgrades these same tracks for their service, that's less local money that will have to be spent on commuter rail later on down the line.

Lake.. I don't think your reply was in reference to what I said, but to clarify, I understand all that you just put and I am 100% on board.  I was really just asking about the other routes potential to turn a profit out of a curiosity standpoint because I am the first to admit my ignorance on these matters.  Another question to throw out there, not ever having taken Amtrak... what is the limit on baggage someone can take on, etc?  I'm thinking a lot of people who are coming from up North or even Canada for 2 or 3 weeks or a month might love to take the train to Florida rather than fly b/c they can take more luggage and not have to pay the extra fees the airlines are charging now.

Those are questions that Ock may be better off answering. 

My hope is that more frequent Amtrak services appeal to everyday commuters as well as long distance travelers, like it does in California.  For survey purposes, the images below represent my vision of local benefits that could come with an Amtrak corridor service.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-7760-susan_decker_1-flickr.jpg)
Morning rush hour from Emeryville, CA on trains heading into Oakland.  Applied locally, Emeryville would be Orange Park and Oakland would be downtown.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-7771-richmond.jpg)
A TOD at the Richmond, CA Amtrak station.  I see something like this potentially popping up in an area like the Avenues.


(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-7757-davis_station_susan_decker-flickr.jpg)
Bikes at the Davis, CA Amtrak station.  A scene like this could take place at the St. Augustine or DT stops, where residents from nearby walkable neighborhoods ride their bikes to stops.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8185-30th_street_station.jpg)
Although, not in California, Philly's 30th Street station is a part of Amtrak's Keystone corridor service.  Here, you can transfer from Amtrak to other local mass transit options.  As a rail hub, our proposed JTC could offer just as many services in what is currently a dead section of downtown.

Excellent examples Lake!  Oh, if only the dream in our heads could become a reality for Jacksonville.  Eventually someone has to start listening right?

(http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/TTR/redcap.jpg)
30TH ST STATION: RED CAP BAGGAGE ASSISTANCE

Wow, sort of reminds one of the original Negro League Team, THE JACKSONVILLE RED CAPS! Now you know where the name came from. BTW, when the airlines started they switched the name to "Sky Caps", the railroads refused to change.

(http://www.nlbpa.com/fernandez_bernard.jpg)
BERNARD FERNANDEZ

Bernard was originally from Tampa, Fl. The son of Juan (Cuban) and Birdie (Nassau) Fernandez.

He was a pitcher for the Atlanta Black Crackers, Jacksonville Red Caps, Pepsi Cola Giants, Philadelphia Stars, Brooklyn Royal Giants, Pittsburgh Crawfords, New York Black Yankees and Richmond Giants from 1938 to 1949.

(http://www.nlbpa.com/Mitchell_Alonzo.jpg)
ALONOZO MITCHELL

Alonzo was a side-arm throwing right-handed pitcher who played from 1923 to 1941.

He also managed the Jacksonville Red Caps when they played independently between 1934-37.

Baltimore Black Sox, 1923, 1926
Atlantic City Bacharach Giants, 1924-26, 1928
Harrisburg Giants, 1926
Akron Tyrites, 1933
Jacksonville Red Caps, 1934-38, 1941
Birmingham Black Barons, 1937-38
Atlanta Black Crackers, 1938
Indianapolis ABC’s, 1939
Cleveland Bears, 1939-40

Alonzo was in the stands here at home when the Negro League played it's last game.

I want em both back! The Jacksonville Terminal AND The Red Caps, which I'd love to add to a Negro League Museum as a working all star volunteer team of black players from around the majors. They would play one or two benefit games a year here in Jax as the Red Caps. IMAGINE - "Tonight at the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville, The Los Angeles Dodgers square off against the Jacksonville RED CAPS!"

Hell we could all ride the STREETCAR to the ball park!

OCKLAWAHA

http://www.youtube.com/v/5u5cOQGVGYs&hl
IF WE ONLY HAD A BRAIN - THIS COULD BE FLORIDA... HSR MY A**

Quote from: Tripoli1711 on April 08, 2009, 04:09:41 PM
I am in favor of expanding Amtrak, and I know a lot of politicians pay lip service to it, but I often hear them use the term "self-sustaining".  I know that metropolitan mass transit is almost never going to turn a profit, and that's ok.. but is there any realistic expectation that something like Amtrak could ever turn a profit and/or be "self-sustaining".  It doesn't seem very likely to me.  I wish Amtrak were more available and I would certainly use it, but I just don't see many routes outside of, say, the congested Boston-DC corridor having much chance of profitability.  Am I wrong?

Tripoli, The argument for profit has raged for years. Frankly when the federal government decided under a strict Republican administration to form Amtrak, the railroads were just looking for some protection from loss. They were also perfectly happy to continue with whatever was left of the National System (which BTW was about 4x the size of Amtrak's route system). No one was really looking for a complete take-over.

But the government got it and cut it to the bone, whole States lost train service, and routes where many trains had ran the day before suddenly had only a daily and quite basic service. While it can't be proved, it is strongly indicated that back room deals were made between certain officials, politicos and investors to "Get the passenger trains DEAD and out of the way ASAP!" This attitude blindsided at least 5 railroads who either "joined" Amtrak at the last minute or opted out for another 10-20 years. They were The SANTA FE, which still ran a first class train service from Chicago-California (They joined). The Denver and Rio Grande Western, which also ran a first class daily train that was in fact the final remains of the one time famous Chicago-Oakland, CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, since the partner railroads had already quit the train, the Rio Grande operated it as the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR between Denver and Salt Lake City, (They wouldn't join for YEARS). The Rock Island Railroad was in Bankruptcy and couldn't pay the "membership dues" to join Amtrak, so they too opted out and continued the Quad Cities Rocket and Peoria Rocket until they were liquidated in the early 1980's. The SOUTHERN RY, wanted no part of Amtrak and continued to run the Piedmont, Carolina Special and Crescent Limited because "NO G. D. Government Agency is going to tarnish our name for SERVICE!" They held out and brother what a show it was, a throw back to the spit shine of 1948, when they finally gave in, the last to do so, Amtrak was begging on their hands and knees for the CRESCENT LIMITED. SEABOARD COAST LINE, Jacksonville's own major railroad (today's CSX) was in the profitable business of fielding a fleet of trains from Chicago, New Orleans and Boston/NYC to Miami and Tampa every day. Specials ran all during the winter season and they were the last original member to give in and join the club. We promptly went from the best trains in America (except perhaps the Crescent and Santa Fe) to a complete rolling junk yard. The oldest equipment, the tail of the Amtrak dog.

Amtrak was forced into a position of never having a appropriation of funds, rather they went year to year for 35+ years begging for a very visible "subsidy" of a few hundred Million. They NEVER got a budget they could plan with and never got enough just to maintain what they had running. Meanwhile the Airline Industry was getting a cool 30+ BILLION a year, Highways 100+ BILLION, but no one ever saw that money. It was budgeted to the various agency's and never came up in a vote.

So the answer is profit? You've probably heard John McCain rave about how "Every Amtrak Ticket costs the tax Payer $34 dollars?" Honest Tripoli, read the back of the Semi Truck ("THIS TRUCK PAYS $11,000 DOLLARS A YEAR IN ROAD USE TAXES"). BIG DEAL huh? Did you know some quiz kid at MIT calculated all the trucks and buses in America and all their giant tax load wouldn't fill the pot holes in the PA Turnpike for a single year! Some profit huh? I'd call that closer to a free ride. Did you know the government spends between $50 and $600 dollars for every passenger that gets on a plane? Amazing, but Amtrak alone will break the bank according to the Right side of the aisle. So is it expense or investment in our future? The question vexes rail, but I tend toward INVESTMENT... After all we didn't exactly make a killing off of JTB or Roosevelt Bl last year.

HERES YOUR BAGGAGE INFO:  (Oh and BTW, try the train to Orlando and Tampa, walk back to the lounge car, have a drink, listen to some music, try the 1/4 baked chicken in the dining car... I'll bet you'll never drive it again).  

QuoteSOURCE NATIONAL RAILROAD PASSENGER CORPORTATION - AMTRAK

Guidelines for Carry-On Baggage

Two-Piece Limit: Each passenger may bring aboard no more than two pieces of carry-on baggage. Not included in this limit are personal items such as purses, briefcases, laptop computers, baby items such as strollers, diaper bags and car seats, and equipment required for a passenger's medical condition such as breathing assistance devices and oxygen tanks.
50-Pound Limit: Each carry-on bag may weigh no more than 50 lbs.
Size Limit: Each carry-on bag may not exceed 28x22x14 inches in size. Carry-on baggage is limited to 11 inches on Pacific Surfliner trains.
Visible Tag Required: All carry-on luggage must be visibly tagged with the name and address of the passenger. Passengers may use their own personal identification tags, or may obtain free Amtrak baggage identification tags at station ticket offices, or onboard trains from a member of the train crew.
Special Items: Ski equipment, snowboards, golf clubs and bicycles may generally only be handled as checked baggage on Amtrak trains, and not as carry-ons. Items are permitted onboard when they can be safely stowed in the exterior lockers of Superliner equipment, or onboard equipment that is specifically designed to safely and securely accommodate the storage of the items.
Guidelines for Checked Baggage

Amtrak offers checked baggage service at many stations and on many trains and Amtrak Thruway motorcoaches throughout the country. Not all trains and stations offer checked baggage services.

Three-Piece Limit: Each ticketed passenger may check up to three pieces of luggage at no charge. Up to three additional pieces may be checked upon payment of $10.00 per piece.
50-Pound Limit: Each checked bag may weigh no more than 50 lbs. We will not accept heavier pieces.
Size Limit: Each checked bag may not exceed 36x36x36 inches in size.
Check-In Time: Check all baggage at least 30 minutes prior to departure, and longer for special items. Baggage checked less than 30 minutes prior to departure may be delayed.
Suitable Bags: Pack your baggage using sturdy luggage or containers that are capable of withstanding expected handling. Please note that we do not accept plastic storage containers, lightweight suit bags, and other similar items as checked baggage.
Baggage Tags: Attach your name and address to each item. Free identification tags are available at stations or from crew members, or you may use your own.
Where Available: Checked baggage service is available at many stations and on many trains and Amtrak Thruway buses throughout the country. See individual station pages on this site, available from the 'Stations' section, for more information.
Claiming Checked Baggage: Checked Baggage will be available for claiming generally within 30 minutes of arrival. However, some items may require additional handling and therefore may take up to 60 minutes. Be prepared to identify your baggage by the claim check numbers. Storage charges apply to baggage not claimed within two days of arrival.
ID Required: To check baggage, you must have a valid photo ID. For more information about ID requirements, please see our Passenger Security and ID page.
Special Items: Amtrak accepts a number of special items such as baby strollers, bicycles, golf bags, musical instruments, snowboards and skis (one board or set per bag/container). In most cases there is a handling charge of $5.00 per special item.
Bicycles

On many Amtrak trains, it's easy to bring your bike along. See more information about bringing your bicycle aboard the train.

Prohibited Items

The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:

Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon.
Incendiaries, including flammable gases, liquids and fuels.
Large, sharp objects such as axes, ice picks and swords.
Corrosive or dangerous chemicals or materials, such as liquid bleach, tear gas, mace, radioactive and harmful bacteriological materials.
Batteries with acid that can spill or leak (except those batteries used in motorized wheelchairs or similar devices for mobility-impaired passengers).
Club-like items, such as billy clubs and nightsticks.
Fragile and/or valuable items, including but not limited to electronic equipment. (Laptop computers and handheld devices may be carried onboard; however, Amtrak accepts no liability for damage.)
Animals (except service animals).
Oversized and/or overweight items.
Please note: This is not an exhaustive list. Any item similar to those listed, even if not specifically mentioned here, is prohibited from being carried onboard or checked as baggage.

Baggage to/from Canada

Baggage to or from Canada will only be accepted on the same train as the passenger. Customs regulations prevent unaccompanied baggage being handled across the border. All baggage must be unlocked for Customs inspection and bear an identification tag with passenger's name and address.

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteI don't know the trains you've been riding MTRAININJAX but I think I'd rate the train roughly equal with the cruise ship. The Airlines have become the flying cattle cars of the 21st century. Buses? Depends on Motor Coach or Bus, and even then the TYPE of motor coach. There is a world of difference between an MCI on a JTA commute and a SILVER EAGLE, PREVOST CAR, VAN HOOL, SETRA, or VOLVO.

That picture was NOT OF AN AMTRAK DINING/CLUB CAR. You can't BS a BS'er.

Quote1. Jax is the rail gateway to Florida. 

NS does have Class 1 service up and down US 441/41. To Tampa, so a direct Tampa to ATL shot would bypass the "gateway".

NS does not own any track heading into Tampa.  Nevertheless, it would be foolish on Amtrak's part to choose a route that would bypass Orlando and stretch out the trip to South Florida, from Atlanta.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 09, 2009, 09:13:35 AM

QuoteI don't know the trains you've been riding MTRAININJAX but I think I'd rate the train roughly equal with the cruise ship. The Airlines have become the flying cattle cars of the 21st century. Buses? Depends on Motor Coach or Bus, and even then the TYPE of motor coach. There is a world of difference between an MCI on a JTA commute and a SILVER EAGLE, PREVOST CAR, VAN HOOL, SETRA, or VOLVO.

That picture was NOT OF AN AMTRAK DINING/CLUB CAR. You can't BS a BS'er.

Your right MTrain, it's a USED - Former Amtrak car running on the cross border Chihuahua Pacifico in Mexico.

Guess you don't know how the game is played? For example here is the bar car ROYAL STREET, from the old Jacksonville-Cincinnati ROYAL PALM.

(http://www.zephyrroute.com/resources/Royal2.jpg)

It is private but frequents a number of Amtrak Trains, all one has to do is call their number and set a date. There is also "the Mojave", "Golden Sand", "Golden Shore", "Silver Quail" and a host of others.
In fact Amtrak has inked one deal with a PV owner to provide a first class section and more deals are on the way.  

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/7/6/4676.1055632200.jpg)
Amtrak introduced 'Keystone Classic Club' service in 1991 on the Pennsylvanian. The private car 'J. Pinckney Henderson' was leased for this service. The ex MKT coach was converted to a luxury private car. One could ride the car from Pittsburgh to Lancaster, Pa.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/2606172189_974acba770.jpg)
This is the pub on the regular Amtrak Club Car, "Cascade."

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/FloridaRailMap2006-2.jpg)
Where is this Norfolk Southern Jacksonville by-pass your talking about? There WAS a line from Valdosta to Palatka, and still a line from Sparks, GA to Perry FL. The Perry line was the old South Georgia Railroad, which was merged with the Live Oak, Perry and Gulf (The Loafin' Gopher), and spun off to a shortline operator. It has NEVER had a through train on it. The Valdosta Palatka line did indeed bypass Jacksonville and for many years fielded through trains from Atlanta to Hampton (near Starke) where the Seaboard took them on to Tampa and Miami. This stopped in the 1940's and the track came up 20 years ago south of Lake City.

OCKLAWAHA

Hey: RiversideLoki, stephendare, Sigma, Traveller, second_pancake, Dapperdan, Southbanker, David, thelakelander, rvrsdediva, Cliffs_Daughter, 5 Points Theatre, copperfiend, Lunican, JoeMerchant, Captain Zissou, BridgeTroll, movedsouth, stephElf, ChriswUfGator, jaxnative, stjr, triclops i, AlexS, Gonzo, blizz01, iluvolives, Deuce, JaxByDefault, fsujax, 02roadking, Clem1029, Lucasjj, happical

Have you filled out the Amtrak Survey?

Remember, "WE" know where you live! Hee Hee

OCKLAWAHA

I voted Monday.

I voted day 1

Skwaz, Jeffrey, I guess you figured by now that I have no way of knowing who voted and who didn't... YOU GUYS ARE THE HERO'S HERE. So I'm just messing with everyone trying (in vain?) to get this over 50, though I wish we could hit 100 votes. Y'all know someone who would do this at work, home or play, PLEASE have it happen.  


OCKLAWAHA
Just a few seats short of a full streetcar!

Ock and Lake, I didn't see anyone mention this article today from the Florida Times Union.  Did you pick up on it?

QuoteAmtrak's Sunset Limited may rise again
Support builds for return of Jacksonville-New Orleans route

    * By Larry Hannan
    * Story updated at 6:31 AM on Thursday, Apr. 9, 2009

The Sunset Limited Amtrak Route from Orlando to New Orleans has been gone since Hurricane Katrina damaged the CSX train tracks in 2005.

But after almost four years of inaction, politicians and various community groups in at least three states have begun advocating for the return of the train route, which runs through Jacksonville.

Supporters of the Sunset say they are optimistic that the new administration will mean Washington is more open. Both Barack Obama and Joe Biden were vocal Amtrak supporters in the Senate.

“The political climate seems to be turning in our favor,” said Barbara Tucker,  a resident of Hurley, Miss.
Tucker is a member of the Sunset Marketing and Revitalization Team, or SMART, a group that formed to advocate for the route’s return. SMART, the Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers and the National Association of Rail Passengers are all advocating for the Sunset’s return at the same time as Amtrak has begun conducting a feasibility study.

The damaged tracks have been repaired, and CSX says it has no objections. But low ridership before Katrina hit has Amtrak hesitating. About 81,000 people rode the line in 2005, down from 96,246 in 2004.
U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., who chairs a rail subcommittee, has insisted that Amtrak look into re-establishing the route. She inserted a requirement into recent Amtrak legislation that mandated the rail agency do at least that by the summer.

Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari  said the study into feasibility and cost is under way and will be submitted to Congress by July. A process is also being developed that will seek public feedback, but he couldn’t comment on what that process would be.

Ross Capon,  spokesman for the National Association of Rail Passengers, said the Southeast is the only part of the continental United States that lacks an east-west Amtrak line. Several routes run through Florida, but they all go in a north-south direction.

Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton sent a letter to Amtrak asking that the route, which still runs from Los Angeles to New Orleans, be re-extended to help with area tourism.

Stephen Sayles,  president of the Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers, said his group is trying to let people know about the practical impact of having an east-west Amtrak route in the Southeast.

Such a route could keep cars off the road, and give people an alternative when they travel along the Gulf Coast, Sayles said.

larry.hannan@jacksonville.com,

From: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-04-08/story/amtraks_sunset_limited_may_rise_again

I made sure to place my vote. I definitely believe J-ville should be a rail hub.

Thanks for the heads up stjr, both Lake and I we're consulted on the article. We knew it was coming out, but frankly I hadn't seen it yet.

Actually I am VERY against bringing the train back like it was operated pre Katrina.

WHY?

A tri-Weekly train is not a service and barely an accommodation, it can't hope to carry any part of it's own cost recovery. Building stations for service 3 times a week is like building a Walmart only open on Mon-Thu-Sat.

Daily or NOTHING!

Next to that, The Sunset has to run through Jax to New Orleans in the wee hours of the morning, in an area of such light population density, IE: Chipley, Madison, Lake City, Crestview etc... This is insane. Night trains do well only in dense area's or routes where mobility is sometimes challenged such as Twin Cities-Seattle.

The GULF WIND, the train that ran that route before Amtrak's Sunset Limited was extended, should be put back on this route on an ALL DAY schedule. Leave Jax and New Orleans in the AM and arrive at the other end in the PM. I would take a serious look at building some of this into a daylight corridor service with 3+ trains daily before I would add the Night Train back into the mix.

As the Gulf Wind would arrive in New Orleans in the Evening, and the Sunset would pull out in the Mornings, the through Sleeping Cars and a Coach would be spotted at New Orleans Union Terminal and serve as the HOTEL for passengers bound for LA, 3 days a week those cars would be switched into the Sunset. Benefit, (and this WAS done very successfully before) Passengers tour the Big Easy for one whole evening, and don't worry about the hotel, breakfast, etc...

At the Jacksonville end these bone heads need to THINK RAILROAD 101. Damn people it's a train, as in: TRAIN - TO ENTRAIN into a line. So the Gulf Wind early edition arrives in Jax about 4 pm, the Sunset cars are in it 3 days a week, by 11:45 PM, they are rolling into Tampa/Miami on one of our NEW YORK-FLORIDA trains.

So bottom line is, equip the route with a dedicated branded "GULF WIND" series of cars owned by FL, AL, MS, LA... Specialty menus, meals, lounge. Make this the fun train of Florida and make Damn sure some of those cars from New York are headed west on it each day. Operating this train South of Jacksonville makes no sense when you could take advantage of a trains ability to pick up or drop off through cars.

OCKLAWAHA

(http://columbiariverimages.com/Images06/SP4449_excursion_train_dome_car_2006.jpg)
This is the PV (Private Varnish) "SILVER SOLARIUM", it frequents Amtrak trains in the Pacific Northwest on special occasions.

Just a quickie note to anyone confused by my use of train car "names". Back in the days of private flagship trains, they were the pride of the railroad. God help the employee that was responsible for delaying the "Orange Blossom Special," "Champion," or other famous "NAME TRAINS."

Here is lesson one: A "NAME TRAIN" is a flagship service, note the Northeast Corridor has lots of trains, but most only have a number - no name. When you travel by train, to max out the experience look for the name.

Car Names: Also back in the day, railroads ordered most equipment from BUDD Company or PULLMAN Standard. Most railroads with very few exceptions named the cars in series. For example "all 32 seat dining cars on our railroad will be named for local rivers". Likewise, lounge cars, observation cars, bars, clubs, coaches (remember there could be variation of these cars within the railroad) etc... So sometimes the 70 seat coaches might be "State Parks" and the 40 seat long distance coaches "National Parks" - of course only ones on or near the owner railroad.

Private cars had names that as a rule bordered "New Age Thought"... Sure their were several with a former employee's name or a simple number, but more often they had romantic wild names. "The Wanderer", "Intrepid", "Mountain Queen" etc...

Amtrak has continued the tradition, so as you become a rail traveler and train savvy, watch out for your favorites. A few of mine? "The Mountain Queen" (but then I once owned it!), "Ortega River", "St Lucie Sound", "Silver Slipper", "Dell Rapids", "Bunnell",  etc...

OCKLAWAHA

If y'all want Jacksonville to rebuild our grand old train station into the rail facility that God intended, you need to VOTE in our poll. Please do it today.

OCKLAWAHA

Okay y'all we still need some folks to get us past the big 5 - 0 in this poll. So if you haven't done it -- DO IT! So far your answers have been VERY valuable. Don't forget those comments count too!

OCKLAWAHA

Quotethat God intended

Blasphemy so close to Easter? Perhaps a better choice of words would be in order?

QuoteGuess you don't know how the game is played? For example here is the bar car ROYAL STREET, from the old Jacksonville-Cincinnati ROYAL PALM.

Listen - You can BS all these people and tell them the train cars that are in use by Amtrak feature the same mahogany and china found on the CSX business cars along McDuff, but you and I both know that is a LIE. No Amtrak maintained rail care coming in and out of Jacksonville looks anything like what you show above.

You may get better equipment, yes on the Acela, but hey, its used by a LOT more people than who ride the Meteor or Star or Palmetto. You would not see the airlines fly a 777 when its only 25% full, would you?

Stop selling the upscale life, its like pushing an elephant up a hill. If Jax had the equipment to go with the people, do you really think Amtrak would funnel people on and off from the current terminal off of US1/23?

Common sense would say no.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2843241272_c6c1e14334.jpg)
Cascades Lounge Car - AMTRAK

(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-06/39869050.jpg)
"Oh Ock, This surely can't be Amtrak!" "Well it is Amtrak's Starlight Lounge and don't call me Shirley!"

Parlour Car: This vintage hang-out for the sleeping-car crowd (shown in photo) has been retrofitted with new air-conditioning. Very welcome, I imagine, in summer when you’re stuck behind a freight train. Also new: The upstairs lounge serves lunch and dinner. Meal seating is limited to 24, so reserve early or go to the regular Dining Car. In the downstairs theater, you’ll find a 50-inch, flat-screen monitor and an updated sound system. Some bad news: Daily wine-tastings are no longer free. It costs $5 to sample four regional wines, paired with four cheeses.

Arcade Room: Once known as the Kiddie Car, it’s now open to everyone and outfitted with video games. Warning: It’s a tight fit.



Interesting, because the Bar car above (THE CASCADE) is a regular part of the Amtrak fleet. The J.P. Henderson, was leased for PA service and ANYONE holding a first class ticket could ride it on the AMTRAK Pennsylvanian.


(http://honeywine.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/dscf0300.jpg)
First Class Seats on a train? No, just another coach seat on AMTRAK'S Sunset Limited.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HWyhQzVYIWM/SRn43eCl_II/AAAAAAAAAj4/FGCNsXoH0eg/s320/Parlour_Interior.jpg)
AMTRAK superliner parlor car.

The Amfleet, Viewliners, Talgos, Surfliners, Accelas, Superliners and Heritage Fleet are all still light years ahead of any flying cattle car I've ever been packed into. First class air? You've got to be kidding, Amtrak's coach seats are better. Perhaps I shall post a whole string of Amtrak Photos.

Oh and those ridership percentages? Just 25% full? Where? Talk about BS, you can't get a ticket on the trains to and from Florida about 1/2 the year unless you get in line.  

OCKLAWAHA

(http://www.trainweb.org/railworld/Amtrak/Images/Sightseer_Lounge_Car.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9a/Superliner_I_Lounge_upper.jpg)

Another of those hideously ugly Amtrak Cars... NOT! This is an Amtrak Superliner Lounge Car of the same class that will be on the new Gulf Wind-Sunset Limited expansion. Try sticking this in your 737. But if you want to ride this train EVER - Please fill out the poll.

OCKLAWAHA

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/11/nyregion/11metjournal.xlarge1.jpg)

Here is riding the rails of a different sort from the New York Times:

Quote
April 11, 2009
Secaucus Journal
For Circus Workers, Home Is Where the Train Is
By ANNE BARNARD

SECAUCUS, N.J. — Jonathon and Karlene Griggs’s cozy apartment has an eat-in kitchen, mesmerizing views, two flat-screen televisions and room for their son, Bryce, 5, to ride his skateboard up and down the hall.

Leah Christiana Gonzalez’s place is more modest, with a cubiclelike bedroom, no living room and a shower she shares with seven roommates who keep odd hours. Still, not bad for a 26-year-old’s first apartment away from home.

What the two apartments have in common is an extremely exclusive address: on board the Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Circus train.

“We’re basically a city without a ZIP code,” Mr. Griggs, a circus manager, said Thursday at his home, which sat in a railyard in Secaucus, N.J, the sun gleaming off its silver paint. The train’s 33 coach cars, he said, are like a 33-story apartment building, only horizontal, with onboard electricians and mechanics in place of a super.

About 250 people — performers, train crew members, porters, cooks, stagehands — live year round on the train, one of two that crisscross the country carrying elephants, sequined costumes, stage equipment and the cast and crew of the Greatest Show on Earth.

Most train denizens, like Ms. Gonzalez, a gymnast and former Oakland Raiders cheerleader who rides an elephant in the show, live in rooms not much bigger than standard sleeping compartments, eight to a car. But the Griggses’ dwelling, which takes up half a coach, is larger than some New York City apartments.

With a dinette, beige kitchen cabinets, a full-size refrigerator covered with family photos and a bathroom sink where Bryce keeps his Spider-Man toothbrush, it looks like it could be anywhere in Middle America. And it has been.

In a nation where long-distance train travel has almost died out, the Griggses and their neighbors get to see places that cross-country drivers never glimpse: remnants of wooden water channels built by gold rush prospectors in California hills; tracks that run along Washington State beaches where sea lions lounge; mountain passes through the Rockies with no highway signs to clutter the view.

When the train stops, spending about a week at most destinations, its residents can take a circus bus to town to explore and do errands; a few have cars and motorcycles that are hauled on the train’s flatbed freight cars. Between shows at Madison Square Garden this week, the Griggses have been to the Central Park Zoo and the Times Square Toys “R” Us.

In Secaucus, home is a gravel-lined track bed just off the New Jersey Turnpike, hidden away down a dirt road behind a stand of yellow reeds and a warehouse parking lot full of Goya food delivery trucks. Two strings of coach cars, with the name of the circus painted on their sides, stood with their doors open to the spring morning, wooden footstools placed beneath each car’s stepladder. As Bryce snapped together a jigsaw puzzle of jungle animals, a train whistle hooted in the distance.

“I don’t want to use the word ‘stigma,’ ” Mr. Griggs said. “But people think, ‘Circus people, they’re gypsies.’ We’re normal people with normal lives.”

“We’re not carnies,” he added, pronouncing the word with a distaste bound to rile fans of Coney Island’s freak shows. “This is a business.”

Still, a few romantically nomadic touches evoke a time when the line between traveling entertainers and hobos was fuzzier. A charcoal grill on the tracks hinted at a barbecue under the stars the night before. A few nights earlier, some acrobats had a cooking fire that ignited the brush, forcing the appearance of local firefighters. Kodak, a 6-year-old Labrador mix that lives with Mike Hickey, the trainmaster, in an apartment with an electric fireplace, trotted up and down the train, then headed to its dinerlike restaurant, the Pie Car, where the cooks give her bacon.

Alex Ramon Gonzalez, 23 — Ms. Gonzalez’s brother and the illusionist star of the circus’s current Zing Zang Zoom show — said life on the train was far more civilized than hopping from hotel to hotel. No packing and unpacking, and he can keep some of his doves in his apartment.

“The train kind of rocks you to sleep,” his sister said.

Most of the performers, who come from 18 countries, are between 18 and 26. But some are older, with their own families, including 15 children, who have their own teacher and day care on board.

The Lopez family of trapeze artists — two brothers and their wives — between them have five children, whose grandmother rides along to watch them. The Rodriguez family, who perform on steel contraptions that resemble huge hamster wheels, include an 11-year-old acrobat.

Ms. Griggs, once a trapeze artist herself, now freelances as a massage therapist for the performers. Like many of them, she grew up in circuses, where her grandfather walked a tightrope above pacing lions. She met her husband when he joined her and her brother’s trapeze troupe, the Flying Rodleighs.

Mr. Griggs, who has the brush cut and triangular torso of a cartoon muscleman, went into management after he caught his brother-in-law midair at a performance in Germany and felt his kneecap pop out. Still, the couple’s walls are lined with photographs of their old life: husband and wife in sparkling leotards.

Mr. Griggs has a GPS unit mounted in a window so he can learn the names of the places he sees outside. Sometimes, the family takes folding chairs out through their screen door onto the vestibule between cars — which, unlike those on Amtrak, can be opened to the air — to watch the scenery. Sometimes people wave.

“This is really part of American history,” Mr. Griggs said. “It’s one of the last trains where you can lean out and feel the fresh air go by.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/nyregion/11metjournal.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1239505221-WbXdKPOd6Bp5gnbawxeOiA

(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/11/nyregion/11metjournal.1902.jpg)

(http://z.about.com/d/studenttravel/1/0/H/F/amtrak-bunk-family-room.jpg)
"HOTEL" AMTRAK, a family bedroom onboard a superliner sleeper.

Nice catch stjr, note they used 2 tracks to spot just this one train. Train travel is miles removed from either an air or bus experience, everyone onboard talks, becomes friends, even family. Sometimes if the dinner is crowded they'll ask if they can seat someone else across the table from you. Those seatings have resulted in a lot of baby's.

If you read this and haven't filled out the poll, please go to the top of the page so we can get rail cars like this in Jacksonville.

OCKLAWAHA

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2713761429_dc179d33c2.jpg)
Route of the old: Norfolk - Fayetteville - Charleston - Savannah - Jax - Daytona Beach - W. Palm - Miami "TIDEWATER" nearly 40 years of no trains and it still has depots and platforms waiting for this day.

Never thought so many (786) would read this poll! But by the same measurements we still need 3 people to ink the boxes to get to 50 responces. So why don't you read it and answer the questions. You can answer all of them or just part of them, it's up to you. The key facts to remember is that these numbers are going to be shared by MJ - Amtrak - JTA. 

The people that await this poll were hoping for about 500 responses, The first  passenger train that rolls across the St. Johns River, headed for Miami, is when we vote with our feet.

OCKLAWAHA

Quoteso we can get rail cars like this in Jacksonville

It would be nice, and I appreciate your honesty in telling folks we don't have these cars in amtrak trains that stop in Jax.

QuoteOh and those ridership percentages? Just 25% full? Where? Talk about BS, you can't get a ticket on the trains to and from Florida about 1/2 the year unless you get in line.

Now you are just plain fibbing it up. Train travel is one step up from bus travel. You may not get a berth or compartment, but you can always get a coach seat. If not, guess what, Amtrak has more cars just sitting down there in Miami for the next run of the Meteor or Star.