Metro Jacksonville

Living in Jacksonville => Dining => Topic started by: copperfiend on March 24, 2009, 12:47:06 PM

Title: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close 2009
Post by: copperfiend on March 24, 2009, 12:47:06 PM
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/03/23/daily18.html (http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/03/23/daily18.html)

QuoteTwo popular Jacksonville eateries have closed their doors.

Plaza III Steakhouse’s last day in business was March 22.

“Based on the economics and what’s going on in Jacksonville we decided to shut down,” said restaurant owner J. Bard McLean.

The restaurant was in the Hyatt Regency on the Northbank. It opened in December 2005 and employed 34.

The Jacksonville Plaza III was one of seven of the Kansas City-based steakhouses. In the last year-and-a-half all but two have closed â€" the flagship in Kansas City and one of the Boston locations.

Cafe Carmon in San Marco also closed March 22. The cafe was founded in 1985 by Phyllis Geiger, who also founded Peterbrooke Chocolatier. Geiger sold the cafe in 1990 to Wayne Davis, who is a member of the family that founded Winn-Dixie Stores Inc. (Nasdaq: WINN). Davis could not be reached for comment.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: jason_contentdg on March 24, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
So what exactly does he define as "what's going on in Jacksonville"?
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Doctor_K on March 24, 2009, 01:33:53 PM
Cafe Carmon had been less than stellar the last couple of years, IMO.  It was better earlier in the decade.  Hopefully the new business will fare well.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: copperfiend on March 24, 2009, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: JoeMerchant on March 24, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
So what exactly does he define as "what's going on in Jacksonville"?

Considering they have closed 5 of their 7 locations in the last year, probably the same as the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: jason_contentdg on March 24, 2009, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on March 24, 2009, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: JoeMerchant on March 24, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
So what exactly does he define as "what's going on in Jacksonville"?

Considering they have closed 5 of their 7 locations in the last year, probably the same as the rest of the country.

Right, I think it seems odd that he phrased it that way.  "Based on the economics and what's going on in Jacksonville..."
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: copperfiend on March 24, 2009, 02:22:58 PM
Agree. Almost like a parting shot.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Deuce on March 24, 2009, 02:43:30 PM
Definitely something bitter in that statement. Not only does the chain seem to be going belly up overall, but there are already 2 fine steakhouses downtown. Did we really need another?
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: fsujax on March 24, 2009, 02:58:15 PM
Yes, because it was on the Northbank. Now we have no fine steakhouse dining on the northbank. It is really ashamed to see these places all closing up. And I don't consider Benny's at the Landing fine dining.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Dapperdan on March 24, 2009, 05:48:18 PM
I am sure something will open there. The Hyatt location is a great location for a restaurant. If they had to shut down all their restaurants but two, then their business model needs retooling.
I never went there. Were they overpriced? I have been to Ruths Chris once, but my favorite place is Chart House on the Southbank. As long as that place stays, then I am happy.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: kramer2k on March 24, 2009, 06:47:29 PM
Quote from: Doctor_K on March 24, 2009, 01:33:53 PM
Cafe Carmon had been less than stellar the last couple of years, IMO.  It was better earlier in the decade.  Hopefully the new business will fare well.
I agree.  I went there my once and only time last October-ish for brunch and wasn't impressed.  I was actually a little let down by the experience.  I had heard stellar things about the place, but it was ho-hum.  (http://www.v6performance.net/forums/images/smilies/gotme.gif)
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: thekillingwax on March 24, 2009, 07:25:26 PM
I honestly think that Plaza III's busiest times were when they did the cheap lunches for jurors, it was a heck of a good deal when I went there. Then they stopped doing it and I figured they were getting ready to fold. It was a pretty place on the inside too.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Tripoli1711 on March 24, 2009, 10:08:55 PM
Imagine what a killing whatever the next place that goes into that spot will make once the new waterfront convention center gets built at the courthouse site....
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: blizz01 on March 24, 2009, 10:41:19 PM
What was the original place there (Adam's Mark era) called?  It was Italian & the wait staff would walk around & break into song & serenade the diners.  I liked the concept.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: brainstormer on March 24, 2009, 10:41:52 PM
I like that positive attitude Tripoli! ;D
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Steve on March 24, 2009, 10:46:41 PM
Interesting Stephen that the restaraunt was sold - I'm curious what they will do.

Regarding Plaza III - it's price point was higher than Outback, but less than Morton's/Ruth's Chris (however closer to Ruth's Chris), and the quality was in between Outback, and Morton's/Ruth's Chris (but closer to Outback IMO).  My feeling is that if I'm going out to spend more than outback prices, I'm going to go out for something real nice, and I'd rather Ruth's Chris.

Something will go in the spot (966 room hotel, and the it does get SOME traffic), but I think something at a lower price point than Plaza III would be better.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: thekillingwax on March 25, 2009, 12:15:58 AM
Quote from: blizz01 on March 24, 2009, 10:41:19 PM
What was the original place there (Adam's Mark era) called?  It was Italian & the wait staff would walk around & break into song & serenade the diners.  I liked the concept.

I think it was Bravo or something like that. Ate dinner there once, didn't know what I was getting into and it was a little strange.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: thelakelander on March 25, 2009, 12:38:38 AM
Yes, that place was called Bravo! Ristorante.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: ProjectMaximus on March 25, 2009, 01:49:59 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on March 24, 2009, 05:48:18 PM
I am sure something will open there. The Hyatt location is a great location for a restaurant. If they had to shut down all their restaurants but two, then their business model needs retooling.
I never went there. Were they overpriced? I have been to Ruths Chris once, but my favorite place is Chart House on the Southbank. As long as that place stays, then I am happy.

Have you tried moon river pizza? I think you'd like it, Dan.

:)
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: ProjectMaximus on March 25, 2009, 01:56:03 AM
Oh yeah! Bravo. A few times I've sat around trying to remember the name of that place, too. I went once, and remember the food was good but the portions a little meager. I had a salad and it was served with one gigantic piece of lettuce, one long carrot, a large crouton, etc...I think I was supposed to cut everything up myself. Then the soup came in this huge bowl, which was sweet til I realized the bowl was only about two centimeters deep. It was designed to look like a bowl, but was actually very shallow. But, again, it was good food, nice entertainment, and the girlfriend's parents were treating us. Ahh, good ol days.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: brainstormer on March 25, 2009, 06:22:30 AM
Regarding Plaza III...I'm usually against chains, but I think a moderately priced chain with quality food and an outstanding reputation would be great for downtown.  I'm thinking Cheesecake Factory or Cheeseburger in Paradise; something along those lines.  We need a few places with name recognition downtown to draw people back to the core and while here, they will have the chance to explore the rest of the area.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: copperfiend on March 25, 2009, 08:02:20 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 24, 2009, 10:46:41 PM
Interesting Stephen that the restaraunt was sold - I'm curious what they will do.

Regarding Plaza III - it's price point was higher than Outback, but less than Morton's/Ruth's Chris (however closer to Ruth's Chris), and the quality was in between Outback, and Morton's/Ruth's Chris (but closer to Outback IMO).  My feeling is that if I'm going out to spend more than outback prices, I'm going to go out for something real nice, and I'd rather Ruth's Chris.

Something will go in the spot (966 room hotel, and the it does get SOME traffic), but I think something at a lower price point than Plaza III would be better.

Maybe they should just open an Outback there.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: BridgeTroll on March 25, 2009, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: blizz01 on March 24, 2009, 10:41:19 PM
What was the original place there (Adam's Mark era) called?  It was Italian & the wait staff would walk around & break into song & serenade the diners.  I liked the concept.
I ate there twice during that time... It was kinda fun!
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: Steve on March 25, 2009, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on March 25, 2009, 08:02:20 AM
Maybe they should just open an Outback there.

Not that I'm a huge chain fan, but I think it would actually do well there.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: fsujax on March 25, 2009, 01:41:47 PM
I would love an Outback there!
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: ChriswUfGator on March 25, 2009, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 25, 2009, 01:49:59 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on March 24, 2009, 05:48:18 PM
I am sure something will open there. The Hyatt location is a great location for a restaurant. If they had to shut down all their restaurants but two, then their business model needs retooling.
I never went there. Were they overpriced? I have been to Ruths Chris once, but my favorite place is Chart House on the Southbank. As long as that place stays, then I am happy.

Have you tried moon river pizza? I think you'd like it, Dan.

:)

ROFL

Now that's just mean...
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 25, 2009, 10:25:13 PM
My one experience at Plaza III was not good.

I wouldn't expect to see an Outback in a Hyatt hotel.  Maybe something more upscale like Golden Corral.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: TheProfessor on March 25, 2009, 11:41:35 PM
California Pizza Kitchen would be my pick, but not the usual hotel fare.  I think they need something New American with a trendy edge and nice bar that would attract those alcholics from the new entertainment district on Bay Street and the Baptist Church =)
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: mtraininjax on March 28, 2009, 02:26:08 AM
QuoteMaybe they should just open an Outback there.

Carrabba's or Red Lobster would do just fine for Jacksonville. So far the restaurants are 0 for 2 down there, 3 strikes and it gets turned into an exercise room.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 28, 2009, 05:19:40 PM
That's not really a good location for a restaurant that needs to attract customers other than hotel guests to turn a profit.  I would think that in order to be successful there you'd have to be able to ramp up or scale back the operation quickly to match hotel occupancy so that your costs would be low when business is slow.
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: BridgeTroll on March 28, 2009, 05:45:40 PM
Of course that would all be solved by putting the convention center where the courthouse and giant parking lot on the river are.  Oh look... we dont need the Prime Osborne to be a convention center anymore...  My oh my... whatever to do with a structure like that.  What on earth could it possibly be??? ::) :o
Title: Re: Plaza III, Cafe Carmon close
Post by: urbanlibertarian on March 28, 2009, 06:29:44 PM
^Great idea BT!  That is as long as it's a privately owned and operated CC so that all that riverfront property goes back on the tax rolls.