Metro Jacksonville

This is the message I sent to the members of, Any Mayor of any city should be willing to publicly debate anything.  (I wish you would help Mike Hogan and any other potential mayoral candidiate understand that there should be a new standard)


THERE IS A NEW GROUP
Mike Hogan for Jacksonville, FL Mayor!
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=7893&uid=71396971130#/group.php?gid=71396971130

I put a message on the discussion board that I would like you to comment on

THIS IS WHAT I SAID

I joined this group hoping that we could find out where Mike stands. I for one would like to set a new standard. If Mike doesn't agree I am pretty sure we can find a candidate that will agree.

Please have Mike comment on the group
Any Mayor of any city should be willing to publicly debate anything.
http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1452481430&gv=12#/group.php?gid=41295606543

I would like you to say something to the effect.


Mike Hogan please comment on Dave Siebert's suggestion If you want my vote this is the minimum requirement. (please add more if you wish)

The internet is going to help this election cycle unlike ever before.

FOR THOSE OF YOU NOT ON FACEBOOK Mike Hogan has 135 members but those people have only invited 270 people who haven't replied

HERE IS ONE THREAD



Post #1
You wroteon February 28, 2009 at 2:44pm
I joined this group hoping that we could find out where Mike stands. I for one would like to set a new standard. If Mike doesn't agree I am pretty sure we can find a candidate that will agree

Please have Mike comment on the group
Any Mayor of any city should be willing to publicly debate anything.
http://www.facebook.com/groups.php?id=1452481430&gv=12#/group.php?gid=41295606543

      Reply to Your PostDelete Post

Post #2
You wroteon February 28, 2009 at 3:29pm
Hopefully it isn't just me who wants to know.

http://jaxoutloud.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87679#post87679

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4504.new.html#new

      Reply to Your PostDelete Post

Post #3
John Nelson wroteon February 28, 2009 at 4:08pm
I think Dave has a good idea. I would go one step further and suggest that anyone who wishes to be elected Mayor should be willing to discuss or debate anything of interest to the citizens and voters before and after the election. Our next Mayor should leave no doubt where he stands on the issues, what he intends to do if elected, what gauge the public should use to determine the success or failure of his policies, and how he will respond to any failed policies or programs he implements. We need to stop the popularity contests and return to elections in which qualified candidates earn their victories by earning the trust of the voters.

      Reply to JohnReport

Post #4
1 reply
Rob Amos wrote5 hours ago
While your proposal is a good one, this is probably not the place. Mike has not announced anything - this group was simply formed as a place for people who would like to see Mike run. It is hard to corner him on a public debate question like this when he has declared nothing.

      Reply to RobReport

Post #5
You replied to Rob's post37 minutes ago
Rob what you are saying is Mike is a politician and typical of most politicians he isn't going to use any forum that is inconvenient for him to do inconvenient things like answer people's questions. I now know that he is aware of the group Any Mayor of any city should be willing to publicly debate anything, because so many of his family obviously have seen the group Mike Hogan for Mayor. Thank you for not filtering out this inconvenient response

Sooner or later he will realize serving the people means doing things not necessarily just convenient for him.

      Reply to Your PostDelete Post

Post #6
Rob Amos wrote26 minutes ago
I am simply saying to you - this is not the place - why not wait if and until he declares, just like your other link above states? This is a group for people that are simply supporting him to run. Shouldn't be too hard to grasp.

Please take your comments and challenges about debate to a different forum. Mike did not ask me to post this group, and as such, I will handle the group as I see fit or remove it upon his request. It's not the place for what you want to do. If you don't support Mike for mayor - which is why I made the group - just get out.

      Reply to RobReport

Post #7
You wrote2 seconds ago
I would like to support him maybe if he answers questions and surrounds himself with people tolerant of people. Since he isn't talking about being mayor _____________

comments like these from Rob Amos I think are indicators of what type of person Mike Hogan is and what kind of campaign he intends to run. Does anyone really think that Mike Hogan doesn't look at this everyday? I am sorry MIKE knowing that someone is treating people asking questions of you like this,,

Quote """I am simply saying to you - this is not the place - why not wait if and until he declares, just like your other link above states? This is a group for people that are simply supporting him to run. Shouldn't be too hard to grasp.

"Please take your comments and challenges about debate to a different forum. Mike did not ask me to post this group, and as such, I will handle the group as I see fit or remove it upon his request. It's not the place for what you want to do. If you don't support Mike for mayor - which is why I made the group - just get out."""end quote.

isn't going to win any friends/votes for you.

And Rob I believe you when you say Mike didn't ask you to start the group but if you are really his friend you asked him and He approved. NOW YOU ARE PLAYING IN THE COMMUNITY SANDBOX IF YOU WANT US TO SHARE OUR TOYS (votes/support) YOU HAVE TO SHARE YOURS (answer our questions)

I am not sold on ANY of the Mayoral Candidates, 100%. 

Quote from: Timkin on February 14, 2011, 09:43:30 PM
I am not sold on ANY of the Mayoral Candidates, 100%. 

LOL - way to dig up a 2-year old thread, Tim!

:P

:)

Mike hogan will be at the televised debates I think. He knows he must share his views in these particular debates or forums. He has a heart that knows he must attend. Agree with him on all issues or not, He does care about people and knows he must be accountable in such broad reaching venues.

Audrey and Rick this morning at the ATT building for a debate. Sadly all the other candidates had "scheduling conflicts".

I went to that forum this morning. I wish Mike had attended. I ask some of his supporters who were there, where he was and the reply I got was this, "he had a scheduling conflict, the same way that Audrey has one for the Tea Party forum." Either way still would like to hear his thoughts about Downtown.

haha. I did! I was a little taken back by the response.

I too was at the forum, although I had to leave a bit early....I have seen Rick and Audrey debate several times and they are usually evenly matched...but not today...the topic (downtown) clearly revealed that Audrey has a much better grasp of the issues and opportunities for our urtban core!

Hope she can make some of them reality .. assuming she wins

I posted this on his page awhile back...

Quote from: MeMr. Hogan, if you become Mayor of Jacksonville, I have a mission for you. Could you bring Downtown Jacksonville back to the way it was in these pictures? http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-an-era-gone-by-downtown-retail. Too many empty lots and empty buildings in a Downtown that I believe could compete with the likes of New York City. Thank You!

Quote from: Mike HoganMr. Murray: Thanks for your question. Downtown is very important to me. One of my anscestors was the city's first permanent settler and he built a log cabin on what is now Hogan Street downtown. Like you, I would love to see Downtown return to its glory days. Please check my website, www.HoganforMayor.com, next month and you will be able to read much more about my plans for helping Downtown return to vibrancy.

This was regarding downtown. I know it doesn't answer all the questions we certainly have, but I figured I'd add to this to the discussion.

I don't want to return downtown to the "glory days" of Mike Hogan.  I remember those days when the best lunch was Stand n'Snack or Morrison's Cafeteria, racism was rampant, and raw sewerage poured into the St Johns.  Let's shoot for something a whole lot better.  Hogan ain't gonna deliver it.

Polls show Moran beats hogan in a runoff. Polls show hogan beating mullaney handily in a run off. Think about it!

No-go for Hogan.... Moran +1,000,000

QuoteEmpty podium in Mike Hogan's spot for first TV debate

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-galnor/2011-03-02/empty-podium-mike-hogans-spot-first-tv-debate

Submitted by Matt Galnor on March 2, 2011 - 11:22am PolitiJax

There will be an empty podium in place of Mike Hogan at Thursday's televised debate, the first in the upcoming Jacksonville mayoral race.

Hogan, the Duval County Tax Collector, last week backed out of two of the three forums hosted by several nonprofit and media partners, including The Times-Union.

Susie Wiles, Rick Mullaney's campaign manager, lobbied for an empty podium in a Tuesday e-mail to Scott Kim, the WJCT news director who is coordinating the debates.

Wiles was asking if there would be consequences for candidates who did not think the debates were important, but denied rumors that the former general counsel threatened to pull out of the event is there was not an empty podium.

Kim said the issue was discussed with the various partners, who decided to put an empty podium on Thursday and an empty stool for the March 17 town-hall style forum.

Kim said the decision was made on Monday, before Wiles sent her e-mail.

Hogan's absences at forums have been the subject of a blog and a Twitter account blasting the Republican front-runner for avoiding them.

Hogan has said there's more to the campaign that debates and forums.

Hogan, Mullaney and Moran, president of the Sulzbacher Center for the homeless are the Republican on the ballot. Former Clinton administration aide Alvin Brown and former juvenile justice officer Warren Lee are running on the Democratic side.

Bar owner Steve Irvine is running with no party affiliation.

All but Hogan will be at the debate. The candidates will be lined up in alphabetical order, so the second podium will be empty.

The election is March 22. If no candidate gets more than half the vote, the top two vote-getters will be in a May runoff.

QuoteNo more empty podium for Mike Hogan at tonight's debate

Submitted by Matt Galnor on March 3, 2011 - 11:13am PolitiJax

On second thought, there will not be any empty podium in place of Mike Hogan at tonight's televised mayoral debate.

WJCT, the host station among several nonprofit and media partners including The Times-Union, said this morning there will only be five podiums for the five people attending.

"We don't want to be part of the story," WJCT news director Scott Kim said. "We feel like this part of the story is just detracting from the point of this, which are the debates themselves."

Kim said the decision to was made to place an empty podium on stage, but this morning the plans changed.
Susie Wiles, campaign manager for Rick Mullaney, had urged WCJT to place an empty podium and said this morning she'll plead her case again.

Mullaney, the former general counsel, will attend the debate either way, Wiles said.
Wiles said Mullaney wished it were different, but says the debate is an opportunity to show he's the conservative candidates with a plan to cut government and grow jobs.

The debate will air at 8 p.m. and also will be streamed live on Jacksonville.com. It will feature the other five candidates on the ballot: Republicans Mullaney and Audrey Moran; Democrats Alvin Brown and Warren Lee, along with Steve Irvine, who is running with no party affiliation.

The election is March 22. If no one gets more than half the vote, the two two vote-getters will meet in a May runoff.

Everyone by now has been exposed the the created hubbub over forum appearances.  It seems everyone is focused on the candidates this year which is excellent, but apparently not everyone is all that concerned about issues. It seems the new gimmick this year is to keep score of what candidates are where and how often.  For some reason this is being used as a way to measure someones committment to issues.  Recently, a lot of heat has been put on Mike Hogan by some folks who want to make a case about him not being at certain venues they feel he should attend.  The criticism is not aimed at him alone however.  If Audrey misses an event, someone askes why, Alvin misses alot of them as do other candidates and Rick Mullaney has certainly not made every event and refused to interview with Firefighters or the JSO. So why all the heat on one candidate?

This thing called the "empty chair" found legs and it was being used as a way to draw particular attention to one candidate, in this case Mike Hogan.  Everyone heard and read that he was not showing to speak with Melissa Ross of WJCT and was ducking out on debates and forums.  I decided to find out first hand exactly what had transpired, with special attention to the growing excitement over some upcoming television debates.  So I went to the source, speaking directly to Mike Hogan and his campaign staff.  I also interacted directly with folks an WJCT regarding the issue and the proposed empty podium.  

I am a huge WJCT fan and have always been.  I enjoy the programs of Melissa Ross and her candid interview style and the television programing of our public station is way above par.  I wondered why the Hogan camp was not going to make the Monday interview and wanted the back story to the television spots.  I want to add that I was also thinking about another issue regarding all the uproar over where Mr. Hogan was or was not at any particular time and even before asking I knew much of the reason, because I had faced the same thing when Councilwoman Johnson was in the race.  Both are currently elected officials and have obligations to the posts to which they were elected.  Currently of the front running candidates, Mike Hogan is the only one who is still responsible to a full time elected position and the taxpayers daily.  He must do his campaigning around those duties. While all the others can turn their full attention to the campaign for Mayor, Mike must still do his fulltime job and as such must rely on others to do things like make appointments and choose which venues he should attend.  Those folks of course are his campaign staff.

So what was the deal with the Melissa Ross show?  To begin with persons other than Ms. Ross began to portray the situation as one in which Mike Hogan was a "no show" for a Monday morning program.  But the no show comments were coming out days ahead of the scheduled event.  How can he be called a no show for an event yet to happen?  I decided to call his campaign and spoke directly with his campaign manager and I found out some interesting things.  First regarding the radio spot with Melissa.  His campaign called WJCT approximately three days before the event.  Mike had no knowledge of this at the time and was simply following the lead of his team. He was informed by his campaign that his appearance was cancelled.  So he was not a no show and his camp had cancelled the appearance not him.  Granted they could have given more notice, but that is not how it worked out.  Melissa was publically gracious about it and said she looked forward to a time when she could sit down with him in the future.

Then comes the issue of television debates and the so called empty podium.  The story coming across was that Hogan was suddenly dropping out of scheduled T.V. spots to which he was committed.  Simply not so.  In fact I have in my hands copies of the correspondences between WJCT and Hogans camp.  The first correspondence from WJCT was sent to the info email address on the Hogan website.  It was dated January 6th and read the following: (Note that the correspondence says "tentative dates".)

From: Scott Kim [mailto:SKim@wjct.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:42 AM
To: info@HoganforMayor.com
Subject: WJCT Mayoral Debates

Hello,

My name is Scott Kim, and I'm the news director for WJCT.  We are working with several partners, including CBS 47, First Coast News, the Florida Times-Union, and the Jacksonville Business Journal to produce a series of televised debates between the major mayoral candidates.  I just wanted to quickly make you aware of the tentative dates for the debates.  They are Thursday, March 3, Thursday, March 10 (OR Tuesday, March 8), and Thursday, March 17.  The debates will take place at the WJCT Studios at 100 Festival Park Avenue at 8 p.m. and will be broadcast live on WJCT TV and Radio.  Our partners may also broadcast the debates live, or may tape them for later airing.  I will follow up very shortly with more details.  Thank you!


So, did the Hogan camp committ to all the debates for which there were no firm dates?  No they did not but sent the following reply:

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:46 AM
To: Scott Kim; info@HoganforMayor.com
Cc: john@principlecreative.com; pjm@themccormickagency.com; john@publicdialogue.com
Subject: RE: WJCT Mayoral Debates

We are acknowledging receipt of this information.

Thank you.

Then transpired a series of voice mail messages between the parties which were explained to me in detail.  Mr. Hogan and his camp had said he would attend two television debates.  One on March 7th and One on March 14th.
No other committment was made.  The following emails were sent and received:

Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:07 PM
To: Scott Kim
Subject: RE: WJCT Mayoral Debates
Importance: High

Kim -

Out of control wasteful spending at city hall, tax and fee increases on those who can least afford it and an unemployment rate that is through the roof remain the central issues in this campaign for mayor. Mr. Hogan is pleased to accept your invitation to debate these issues and his plans for turning this city around at the March 7th televised debate.

Then the reply from Scott Kim at WJCT:

From: Scott Kim [mailto:SKim@wjct.org]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 4:14 PM
To: Maggie Bulin
Subject: RE: WJCT Mayoral Debates

Hi Maggie,

Thank you for your quick response.  However, we are holding THREE debates, with ones on Thursday, March 3 and Thursday, March 17 in addition to the one on the 7th.  Please let me know whether Mr. Hogan also intends to attend those as well.

Following the above the Hogan camp sent another email confirming the March 7th date and WJCT responded that they wished he could make the others but thanked the campaign for the clarification.  Somewhere in all of this WJCT said someone called the campaign and asked about the debates and were told it was on the books.  The Hogan camp meant the March 7th and 14th dates, WJCT folks assumed they meant all of their debates.  A simple miscommunication.

After this situation was clarified with all parties, WJCT wisely chose to forget the empty podium and focus on the debate and issues at hand.  It is also worth noting that Susie Wiles who is working for Rick Mullaney was championing the empty podium even through today.  WJCT says the initial idea was from a couple of staff on other stations that were a part of this effort.  Then Susie Wiles jumped on board looking to make her candidate look good.  Politics as usual.

What can we take from all of this?  I think we all need to take a breath and understand that there are a whole lot of different people and personalities behind the candidates and their issues.  There are circumstance and strategies at play and they change daily.  None of us can afford to be distracted by stunts and be lured into playing a game of who is where on what day.  The bottom line is that what we need to worry about is the issues, the platforms and the ideas and plans of the candidates.  Then, once elected we expect the chair to be occupied and the Mayor to be available and accountable to the people of Jacksonville.  

We should all vote based upon truths and not innuendo or hyperbole.  We respect everyones right to make their own choice of whom they support without name calling and snarky remarks.  If we expect a higher level of discourse from our representatives, we should expect the same from media and ourselves.  IMO

QuoteI want to add that I was also thinking about another issue regarding all the uproar over where Mr. Hogan was or was not at any particular time and even before asking I knew much of the reason, because I had faced the same thing when Councilwoman Johnson was in the race.  Both are currently elected officials and have obligations to the posts to which they were elected.  Currently of the front running candidates, Mike Hogan is the only one who is still responsible to a full time elected position and the taxpayers daily.  He must do his campaigning around those duties. While all the others can turn their full attention to the campaign for Mayor, Mike must still do his fulltime job and as such must rely on others to do things like make appointments and choose which venues he should attend.  Those folks of course are his campaign staff.

Diane,

This is exactly why a public official should resign from an office before running for a different one.  All of the other candidates also have jobs and families to run and face the same time constraint issues, but still find time to get in front of the voters in a public forum.

Sorry, I don't think this excuse washes.

Diane, you've been working hard for Hogan the last couple of weeks.  I'm afraid your explanation is spin designed to make your guy look better.  It's suspicious on its face. 

Your tale above paints a picture of a candidate who can't control his schedule, can't control his staff, and can't control his supporters.  Hey, no one can control their supporters, so he gets a pass there.  But are you really going to lead us to believe that Mike Hogan's staff, without his instruction or knowledge, canceled his scheduled appearance on First Coast Connect with Melissa Ross?  By itself your story strains credibility.

When you add in the fact that Hogan began to cancel these events and appearances only after his joke about bombing a clinic and comments about selling off our city's parkland... then your story shatters into transparent spin.  I know you're working your agenda, but it's not holding much water.  In my humble opinion, of course.

The fact is, Mike Hogan could walk into that studio tonight if he wanted to debate the issues in this race with his opponents.  If he doesn't, that's what speaks volumes here.

Jimmy, This is the way it went, what the conversations were and what the email record shows. You can decide for yourself what you believe about the circumstance.  I respect you right to do so.  I am not asking anyone to support any candidate.  ;)

DW, No excuses being made, just sharing my experience and it should not be interpreted as anything more than my opinion of what went on and what the email documents show.  Again, everyone will decide what they think or don't about a candidate or their position. 

Quote from: Diane Melendez on March 03, 2011, 05:04:06 PM
Jimmy, This is the way it went, what the conversations were and what the email record shows. You can decide for yourself what you believe about the circumstance.  I respect you right to do so.  I am not asking anyone to support any candidate.  ;)

Fair enough. :)

Hogan doesn't seem to have trouble finding the time and energy to speak in churches by himself.  Is he afraid of the other candidates or questions that he cannot control or possibly hostile receptions.

And he thinks he can be Mayor?!

"Out of control wasteful spending at city hall, tax and fee increases on those who can least afford it and an unemployment rate that is through the roof remain the central issues in this campaign for mayor. Mr. Hogan is pleased to accept your invitation to debate these issues and his plans for turning this city around at the March 7th televised debate."

This evening's topic of debate being "The Role of Government in Growth/Environment", coupled with the above quote tells me all I need to know.  He isn't showing up, because he has no opinion on this subject other than "NO". 










[/quote]

I am glad the Tea Party endorsed him, now I know voting against Mike Hogan is the right thing to do.

Quote from: LTTurner on March 03, 2011, 05:41:39 PM
I am glad the Tea Party endorsed him, now I know voting against Mike Hogan is the right thing to do.

+1000

Diane, I am trying to think what campaign event could create more visibility and a greater chance to communicate to voters than last night's televised event.  Given that the candidates are spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for TV time, why would a serious candidate turn down an opportunity for an hour and half multimedia forum to espouse their viewpoints and make their case for being mayor?  To the average voter, there can only be one reason: a desire to evade the scrutiny of the voters due to an incapability to withstand the limelight that comes with the job.

Rick Scott did successfully (and most unfortunately) execute this strategy.  But, he also invested $75 million in overwhelming TV ads.  As to the consequences of voters electing an evasive candidate, look what we got with Scott.  I shutter to think that the voters would make the same mistake again with Hogan.

Free advertising should be on any candidates plate! I am surprised,only Mr Bailey took it upon himself to participate in a Q & A, courtesy of MetroJax! Unless I missed something,he was the only one to take an active part.......come to think of it, Ms Audrey did also, but have seen no one else?

LOL.  Hogan doesn't want something he wasn't going to get anyway.  Political grandstanding at its best.  And he isn't a typical politician?  And, add another forum he is choosing to skip even after it was apparently rescheduled for his convenience.  Has he no manners?

QuoteHogan: I don't want T-U endorsement

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/mike-marino/2011-03-07/hogan-i-dont-want-t-u-endorsement
Submitted by Mike Marino on March 7, 2011 - 10:16am PolitiJax

Saying he does not share the beliefs of The Times-Union's editorial page, mayoral candidate Mike Hogan e-mailed Monday that he would not appear at a T-U candidates forum on Tuesday and would not seek the newspaper's endorsement.

"In recent years the Times Union Opinion Page has increasingly voiced support for raising taxes, increased government spending and a larger government role in the lives of everyday Jacksonville taxpayers. Simply put, I do not share these beliefs," Hogan wrote.

The forum was initially scheduled earlier, but Hogan could not appear. It was rescheduled for Tuesday, but an e-mail to editorial page editor Mike Clark at 9:41 this morning from Hogan said he would not attend.

Early voting for the March 22 election began today at 10 a.m.

Hogan is scheduled to appear at a debate with the other five major candidates tonight at WJCT at 8 p.m. It will be streamed live on Jacksonville.com and reporter David Hunt will blog live.

This is the sort of thing Hogan's supporters have been beating up Mr. Mullaney over.  And here Hogan himself is doing it.  I'm not sure Mr. Hogan really wants to be Mayor.  He won't debate, won't talk to the press, and won't engage the voters.  Enough already.

Mike Hogan's tweeter just told me he'd be at the debate tonight.

Yeah Mike Hogan's no responsibility policy is exactly what this city will get if he becomes mayor. 

The guy is a TOOL,........poor Jax there most be better people for this mayor job.

so I guess he finally debated the others....I am out of town so could not watch...how did it go?

Now we know why Hogan ducks debates. 

But he dropped the bombshell that racial relations aren't as bad now as they were when he was a child!  Isn't that worth something?

Wow.  Pretty clear that having Hogan skip every event was the right move.  Watching him tonight was rough!

Quote from: stephendare on March 07, 2011, 09:14:22 PM
Luckily Mike Hogan came across as the third portion of jello butterscotch pudding thats just been spooned out by your grandma in a totally manufactured 'who can eat the most pudding after dinner' contest.

Priceless

So - here is my concern.  Audrey and Rick didn't distinguish themselves in the right way.  My guess is most of the undecided will end up voting for one of the two, but neither really did a great job of convincing you that they were better.

Alvin Brown sounded good, and that's a concern, because it could be a repeat of 2003.  Brown plays Glover, Hogan plays Peyton, and Mullaney and Moran play Weinstein and Carlucci.

The only thing that may prevent a repeat of 2003 - Brown is coming on too little too late, and Hogan was kind of a disaster.  Peyton was a much better speaker in a debate.

Steve, that's what's keeping Audrey's campaign staff up at night, I'm sure.  I think the race looks a little different this year than 2003.  First and foremost, Alvin Brown doesn't have the name recognition or built-in base of support that Sheriff Glover did.  Secondly, Audrey has done a heck of a job luring good Democrats like me into her fold with her talk about opportunity and moving Jacksonville forward.

I also think that Mullaney and Hogan are in a steeper competition than some believe.  They're both hawking their aw shucks Westsider common man angle and playing for groups like the tea party.  They're competing on the right and so Audrey sort of has the middle to herself.  If she picks up enough support on the left, she could absolutely emerge in a strong (enough) second place finish on March 22.  I think she wins hands down in May against Hogan.

Hogan's deal seems to be "name drop Rick Scott" as many times as possible. I actually felt bad for the guy, he was embarrassing to watch. Mullaney still looked slimy. Though I don't think I recall him saying "get our financial house in order" this time. I could be wrong though, I came in about 10 minutes into the "Shannon Ogden's cushy conservative love-in"... err.. debate.

^Totally, which made no sense.  Why drop the name of a governor in reference to how good they are, when the reviews of Rick Scott at this point are mixed at best, in a unitary election race?  That sort of thing might work in a republican primary, but there is no republican primary.

Don't think If I was seeking election , Id be dropping this particular Governor's name .. I would bet Scott's popularity is waning at best , at this point.

It was funny that in response to Scott's name coming up as creating port jobs, Brown immediately followed up by mentioning the $2.4 billion he just sent back to DC.

Quote from: Jimmy on March 07, 2011, 10:53:32 PM
I also think that Mullaney and Hogan are in a steeper competition than some believe.  They're both hawking their aw shucks Westsider common man angle and playing for groups like the tea party.  They're competing on the right and so Audrey sort of has the middle to herself.  If she picks up enough support on the left, she could absolutely emerge in a strong (enough) second place finish on March 22.  I think she wins hands down in May against Hogan.

I think this is the ultimate irony.  Why should there be left, right, and center in mayoral races?  In Atlanta one has to dig to find out what party people are because it is forbidden to disclose or discuss party politics.  Other cities are the same way.  The issues shouldn't be NRA, abortion, yada yada yada.  The only issues on the table should be how to deal with city finances without saying "I'll deal with them like a fiscal conservative" and what plans you have for the city.  This mayor's race is another reason to make Jacksonville a laughing stock of the nation, unfortunately.

and now this from the TU.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-03-08/story/jacksonville-mayoral-candidates-call-closing-skyway-lack-power-do-it

If Audrey loses this election, it is all over for our city. Eight years of Peyton and then four of Hogan. I couldnt imagine. This is really getting me down!

Ugh.

I feel like we've been treading water with Mayor Peyton these last 8 years.  If Mike Hogan gets elected, we'll go under, and actually regress as a city.  Mullaney would be more treading water.  The only candidate who can lift us up is Audrey, which is why she has my full support.

Quote from: simms3 on March 08, 2011, 07:38:51 AM

Quote from: Jimmy on March 07, 2011, 10:53:32 PM
I also think that Mullaney and Hogan are in a steeper competition than some believe.  They're both hawking their aw shucks Westsider common man angle and playing for groups like the tea party.  They're competing on the right and so Audrey sort of has the middle to herself.  If she picks up enough support on the left, she could absolutely emerge in a strong (enough) second place finish on March 22.  I think she wins hands down in May against Hogan.

I think this is the ultimate irony.  Why should there be left, right, and center in mayoral races?  In Atlanta one has to dig to find out what party people are because it is forbidden to disclose or discuss party politics.  Other cities are the same way.  The issues shouldn't be NRA, abortion, yada yada yada.  The only issues on the table should be how to deal with city finances without saying "I'll deal with them like a fiscal conservative" and what plans you have for the city.  This mayor's race is another reason to make Jacksonville a laughing stock of the nation, unfortunately.

And I am sure that in Atlanta candidates don't have to be a part of the FBC to be consider a good candidate.

Quote from: Jimmy on March 08, 2011, 08:34:34 AM
Ugh.

I feel like we've been treading water with Mayor Peyton these last 8 years.  If Mike Hogan gets elected, we'll go under, and actually regress as a city.  Mullaney would be more treading water.  The only candidate who can lift us up is Audrey, which is why she has my full support.

I just wish she was'nt a republican......

Garden guy, I hear you.  Trust me, as a Democrat, I hear you.  But she's the best person for the job and I have to look past party affiliation in these local elections.  Since there's no primary, no actual party nominee, the labels are meaningless.  Local elections are different here than our state or national elections. 

Well..my momma told me to watch who my friends hang out with...that tells me that she hangs out with people who's leaders made bad bad decisions for our nations for many many years....as we all know if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it...well i'm tired of watching the "GRAND OLE PARTY" make decisons that have brought us to where we are today...deregulation and defudning of society....i call them bad people and i'm not hangin' out with them..it does'nt make sense to follow the people who's decisions caused much of our wooes right now.

I really think you guys should have been at the last council budget public debates to understand the type of person that is going to be voting this month.  There are LOTS of angry people out there, who quite frankly don't know what they are talking about, for whom Hogan's message resonates well with.  I encountered a very angry gentleman on Sunday that I just walked away feeling sad for b/c he literally had no clue what he was talking about(he thought the revitilization of the King Street District was bad for the neighborhood b/c all it did was open up two bars and didnt bring any jobs in... don't mind the 4 new restaurants, artist studio, tatoo parlor, hair salon and three bars along a street that was desolate and crime-ridden before).  

This election has gone pretty much how I figured it would... the 527's commercials are really helping Hogan out with the mass of sheep out there in this city.  Clearly if you listen to him speak about actual issues, the rhetoric doesn't match up to the underlying issues in this city.  But people by and large do not fully understand the issues(skyway for instance-the mayor can't shut it down and it would bankrupt the city writing a check to the feds) and that certainly helps the campaigns of candidates such as Hogan.

IMO, Audrey needs to finish a strong 2nd and crush Hogan in the runoff.  Audrey beats Hogan in a runoff, Mullaney doesn't.

QuoteWell..my momma told me to watch who my friends hang out with

Rick Mullaney's biggest contributors are connected with Herb Peyton and Gate

Hogan's biggest contributor are the same 527's who poured money into Rick Scott's campaign locally.

Audrey's biggest cheerleaders are Matt Carlucci(one of the finest public servants the city has ever seen) and Jake Godbold(among a HOST of high profile democrats supporting Audrey).

My momma taught me a lot... but in this case I head the advice of the great philosopher Jay-Z who said 'you say what you say, but you are what you are'

Audrey has walked the talk in my humblest opinion.

Quote from: Garden guy on March 08, 2011, 09:40:32 AM
Well..my momma told me to watch who my friends hang out with...that tells me that she hangs out with people who's leaders made bad bad decisions for our nations for many many years....

You just don't get it.  Maybe you never will.  Audrey is the only candidate in the race speaking to progressive voters.  If you can't see that, I can't convince you.

Maybe its past time for a Woman to take charge and whip this City into shape ;)

I'm kinda liking Alvin Brown after last night.

I like what Alvin Brown said about getting an NBA team here in JAX. I've said for years that JAX would be the perfect city for a basketball team. Audry Moran didn't do as well as she did during the last debate. But, I'm still voting for her as of right now.

I am worried that people right now can not make the connection between the QOL enhancements she talks about and the economic benefits they hold.

Quote from: simms3 on March 08, 2011, 07:38:51 AMWhy should there be left, right, and center in mayoral races?  In Atlanta one has to dig to find out what party people are because it is forbidden to disclose or discuss party politics.  Other cities are the same way.  The issues shouldn't be NRA, abortion, yada yada yada.  The only issues on the table should be how to deal with city finances without saying "I'll deal with them like a fiscal conservative" and what plans you have for the city.  This mayor's race is another reason to make Jacksonville a laughing stock of the nation, unfortunately.

I agree with you. I think we all know that the only reason political parties are brought into a local election is to ensure that the members of those parties vote for the candidate.

I still haven't decided who to vote for... but party affiliation won't have anything to do with it.

The NBA in Jacksonville, within the next 4 years is a pipe dream.  Its also something that a city mayor really has no control over.  Its just about the same kind of promise Mullaney and Hogan make about shutting the skyway down. 

PLEASE!!
We are having trouble supporting an NFL team 10 times a year.  Forget about an NBA team 48 times a year.

Did you know JU basketball averages around 2500 per game(and that number is skewed b/c of an annual free game which draws around 6500).  That's championship Division 1 basketball.  The NCAA Tournament FAILED to sell out last year.  The Jacksonville Giants, which had tickets as low as $4 freaking dollars, couldnt average 3000 per game.  Minor league basketball has failed MISERABLY in this town time and time again.

The years in b/w Shaq and Dwight Howard were not pleasant ones for Orlando.  In fact, talk of the Magic moving crept up from time to time during that period.  Our arena is nice for what it is, but Jacksonville A) doesnt have the facilities to compete(go to the new Amway Arena, I LOVE LOVE LOVE our arena for a mid-level entertainment venue, but it is quite clear Veterans Memorial and Amway are in different stratospheres) B) will not support the team C) The NBA is considering CONTRACTING the league.. not expanding it at present.

Alvin Brown is a smart guy.  I think he does a great job at JU.

He has not shown the leadership qualities needed to be mayor, and frankly I don't believe he has a good enough understanding of the local issues.

Go back and watch the educational debate... he mentions the word public/private partnerships 26 times(I believe I counted right, I was catching up on emails during the debate) and talks about guaranteeing every high school and college child a summer job.  All nice in theory, but he had no particulars whatsoever about such wildly ambitious plans.

He couldn't even respond to Q&A's from the Times Union until a month ago.  Is that the kind of LEADER we need?

Its really nice to have bold ideas... I love ambition!  But things like leveling half of our historic building stock and creating an urban golf course downtown were also bold ideas once.

Please don't take this as a personal attack on Alvin Brown... I think he is a genuinely good man.  However, I do not believe he is the right man for the job of mayor of our city.  Would I pick Brown over Hogan?  Oh you better believe I will.

But, truly from the bottom of my heart... I think Audrey Moran will be our greatest mayor ever.  If you want a progressive, sensible TRUE LEADER that can inspire a city to greatness... then Audrey is your woman!

With his federal government background, I think Alvin Brown will be a very strong candidate for the next round of mayoral elections if he spends the next couple of years getting his name out and being a vocal leader on locally community issues.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 08, 2011, 02:42:42 PM
With his federal government background, I think Alvin Brown will be a very strong candidate for the next round of mayoral elections if he spends the next couple of years getting his name out and being a vocal leader on locally community issues.

+1

Quote from: fieldafm on March 08, 2011, 02:31:21 PM

But, truly from the bottom of my heart... I think Audrey Moran will be our greatest mayor ever.  If you want a progressive, sensible TRUE LEADER that can inspire a city to greatness... then Audrey is your woman!

Alvin Brown has extensive experience in job development in the Clinton Administration.
I feel Alvin Brown speaks to progressive voters more so than any of the other candidates. He will get my vote. And the fact that he's a democrat makes it an easy choice. for me.
As our economy comes back, a progressive agenda is in the best interest of Jacksonville. And while the republican party continues to ground out fear with their own agenda,Mike Hogan among the others, Audreys affiliation to that party negates my own views of her as a "progressive leader.
I believe the most immediate action the mayor can take for Jacksonville is to create jobs for the constituents. Alvin Brown has all the experience in job creation this city needs.
Lakelander, his time is now for our city to move ahead as a metropolitan city!

Hillary, you've said yourself you will never support a Republican.

QuoteWith his federal government background, I think Alvin Brown will be a very strong candidate for the next round of mayoral elections if he spends the next couple of years getting his name out and being a vocal leader on locally community issues.

Lake, I agree with that assesment.

He is an intelligant man and can be a real force in this community.

That being said, we need a true leader that has a thorough understanding of local issues and one who has sound solutions to these challenges that can get out in front of these issues from the get go.  We don't need someone at this pivotal moment in our city's history that is going to need on the job training so to speak.

Audrey has these qualities.  And more importantly, she has the ability to engage and inspire the public.  We saw with the Better Jacksonville Plan that if the community is engaged, great things can happen.  Audrey was a driving force behind BJP and I believe even better things our in our future with her at the healm.

Quote from: fieldafm on March 08, 2011, 02:53:40 PMAudrey has these qualities.  And more importantly, she has the ability to engage and inspire the public.  We saw with the Better Jacksonville Plan that if the community is engaged, great things can happen.  Audrey was a driving force behind BJP and I believe even better things our in our future with her at the healm.

+1

I agree with Stephen. Audrey is the only one worth voting for in this election. I dont even know why Brown would bring up the idea of an NBA team here. For the sake of all of us I hope Audrey makes it to the runoff.

Quote from: fieldafm on March 08, 2011, 02:53:40 PM
Hillary, you've said yourself you will never support a Republican.

Quote


Never.
Im very happy to see some of our posters were impressed with Alvin Brown's performance at the debates. Is there a third and final debate?

Yeah Mike Hogan scares me. He doesnt want to debate anyone. Its like he does not want anyone to know his plans are. How does he expect anyone to vote for him? He scares me BAD. Luckily, the citizens of Jacksonville want change. And if he continues on the path he is now, not many people will be voting for him. IMO

Audry definately has my vote.

FTLOG it's spelled "Audrey!"

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-03-08/story/jacksonville-mayoral-candidates-say-city-needs-bigger-role-schools

Looks like Hogan is once again a no show once again once again once again.....  This is a true sign of what he will do as mayor! 

Guys, I wouldn't be so sure that Audrey will win. A lot of people in this city like Hogan (which is the worst candidate). I'm not for Audrey, I'm for Alvin but it is very possible Hogan will get elected. I want Alvin to win so if it has to be a follow up race, I would hope it to be him and Audrey or him and Warren (but I know that won't happen). I really want Alvin to win, I have no opinion about Audrey.

No one is sure she'll win.  That's why so many of us are volunteering our time and giving our money to help her win.  Mike Hogan will be in the runoff, barring anything crazy between now and then.  If anyone other than Audrey is in the runoff, Mr. Hogan will win.  Audrey is, in my opinion, the only candidate who can beat him.  Which isn't a poor reflection on Mr. Brown or Mr. Mullaney; it's just a political reality. 

If you're volunteering to try to make anyone win, you need to make sure you're talking to the people who's voting for the people you don't want to get elected. Even though it might seem like Mike and Audrey will be the two in the runoff, I'm going to continue to try to get people to vote for Alvin.

That's the way it's supposed to work. :) If you like Alvin, you should be doing that.  But when it comes down to the runoff election in May, Alvin can't beat Mike Hogan, at least not according to the polls and not according to Jacksonville political history.  So that should be a part of your calculus.  (Not necessarily the defining factor!)

I am talking to people who might vote for someone who I don't want to get elected.  I don't want Mr. Brown elected, but not because I don't think he's a nice guy.  He is.  It's because I don't think he can beat Mr. Hogan.

Quote from: Jimmy on March 08, 2011, 11:00:15 PM
That's the way it's supposed to work. :)

I know but this is my first time doing it because this seems to be the make-it-or-break-it election.


I understand what you're saying about Mike and Alvin, but I hope that if that does happen, the people of Jacksonville would be wise enough to not vote for the non-regressive mayor. You make a really good point about our history and the polls though. :)

You mean the very same population that put Rick Scott in Tallahassee? :-\

You know I agree with Jimmy.  I was not with Alvin in the beginning, but he has become much more articulate.  I would love to see Audrey and Alvin in the end:  At least my worries would be over.  But I am voting for Audrey because I do not want Hogan to win.  I agree the history of Jacksonville is quite predictable and I feel that both Alvin and Moran would do a great job, but I feel that Moran is the best chance we have to take out Hogan and she is very bright and articulate......just the opposite of what Hogan is.  I do feel that we have to vote strategically at this point for this city to get what it deserves and needs. 

QuoteI understand what you're saying about Mike and Alvin, but I hope that if that does happen, the people of Jacksonville would be wise enough to not vote for the non-regressive mayor.

This...

QuoteYou mean the very same population that put Rick Scott in Tallahassee?

Rick Scott people love Hogan, that I can assure you.

Hogan versus anyone else in the runoff besides Audrey = Mayor Hogan for 4 years.

I like Rick Mullaney and Alvin Brown on certain issues, but Audrey is the whole package.. and neither Mullany nor Brown can stand up to Hogan in this town. 

If you truly want this city to succeed, in my opinion... Audrey is the clear choice.  Anything else means Hogan becomes mayor.  If you think Peyton was bad, Lord help us with Hogan.  ;)

This is a CRITICAL election.  Audrey is the woman that can MAKE IT HAPPEN in Jacksonville. 

I am telling everyone I know to vote for Audrey! I have convinced my family and several friends.

Quote from: fsujax on March 09, 2011, 09:31:33 AM
I am telling everyone I know to vote for Audrey! I have convinced my family and several friends.

Me too.

I caught Mullaney's campaign ad last night while watching some tube... you know the one where he's standing on stage with strategically placed people representing every race & demographic. I find it hilarious that behind him at the podium was a young white 'Christian' looking couple an elderly white couple a young black man, a couple of Asian decent... I swear there was a legit Native American covered in war paint standing next to 3 midgets.

Does this shit really work on people?

As the courthouse is completed there should be a lot of activity(for Jax) downtown.  We need someone who will capitalize on the momentum the courthouse  project creates.

And when the courthouse is complete, there will be more money in the city's general fund, Hopefully, unless the city is financing it. If not, the city should really consider fixing up the buildings in LaVilla, so much potential.

Quote from: urbaknight on March 08, 2011, 02:01:58 PM
I like what Alvin Brown said about getting an NBA team here in JAX. I've said for years that JAX would be the perfect city for a basketball team. Audry Moran didn't do as well as she did during the last debate. But, I'm still voting for her as of right now.

as Ive let some time pass, having an NBA franchise would be a really good thing for Jacksonville, from my vision of what i want to see of my city. The auditorium would make (badly needed) revenue for the city, although that could be negotiated, but we would get some jobs. And exposure on a worldwide level. That's a good idea from Alvin!

Yesterday at the TU was not a mayoral forum. It was an interview for the editorial board's endoresment. It was already in the media that Hogan declined their invitation as he was not seeking the TU's endorsement.

Quote from: hillary supporter on March 09, 2011, 01:07:48 PM

Quote from: urbaknight on March 08, 2011, 02:01:58 PM
I like what Alvin Brown said about getting an NBA team here in JAX. I've said for years that JAX would be the perfect city for a basketball team. Audry Moran didn't do as well as she did during the last debate. But, I'm still voting for her as of right now.

as Ive let some time pass, having an NBA franchise would be a really good thing for Jacksonville, from my vision of what i want to see of my city. The auditorium would make (badly needed) revenue for the city, although that could be negotiated, but we would get some jobs. And exposure on a worldwide level. That's a good idea from Alvin!

Except that the mayor has no control over this and it doesn't even address the economics of the NBA, Jacksonville's market size and the talk of contracting, not expanding.  This is an unrealistic expectation.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 09, 2011, 01:55:22 PM

Quote from: hillary supporter on March 09, 2011, 01:07:48 PM

Quote from: urbaknight on March 08, 2011, 02:01:58 PM
I like what Alvin Brown said about getting an NBA team here in JAX. I've said for years that JAX would be the perfect city for a basketball team. Audry Moran didn't do as well as she did during the last debate. But, I'm still voting for her as of right now.

as Ive let some time pass, having an NBA franchise would be a really good thing for Jacksonville, from my vision of what i want to see of my city. The auditorium would make (badly needed) revenue for the city, although that could be negotiated, but we would get some jobs. And exposure on a worldwide level. That's a good idea from Alvin!

Except that the mayor has no control over this and it doesn't even address the economics of the NBA, Jacksonville's market size and the talk of contracting, not expanding.  This is an unrealistic expectation.

The Seattle franchise relocated to Oklahoma City. The economics of the NBA would, and are, addressed by the NBA itself. Jacksonville's market size would be important of course but the city is growing while other cities once larger than Jax are losing population.
If any of the owners were to consider moving their teams, it very realistic to consider Jacksonville a home.
Historically, it was considered an unrealistic expectation for Jax to get an NFL franchise. But so we did. And as much as one would gossip about the Jags leaving, Wayne Weaver continues to portray the solidity of the Jags in Jax.
If the mayor of Jax was to voice interest in an NBA franchise, I feel the expectation would be much more realistic.

We have little hoops history in this town....we have 2 college teams that get pathetic fan support...and we have an ABA team (like 60+ other cities) that barely drew 3,000 people per game...so here is a simple list of 5 cities that would likely be considered before Jax. for an NBA team

Las Vegas
Baltimore
Tampa
Seattle
San Diego

and assuming the New Orleans team continues struggling financailly and closes/moves, that city would also be on the list ahead of us.

Kansas City, Newark, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Austin, Columbus and Louisville are a few others.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 09, 2011, 04:07:58 PM
Kansas City, Newark, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Austin, Columbus and Louisville are a few others.

Don't forget Norfolk!  Doesn't Newark already have claim to the Nets?

I don't think it's realistic to say Jax can support a second pro franchise at this time, or that the arena meets modern NBA expectations for amenities or capacity (and it really wasn't designed to do so), but I don't think less of Mr. Brown for having proffered that vision. 

The idea of bringing NBA to Jacksonville during its hardship and economic woes. I don't care if it helps the city one way or another, but we got to take care the ESSENTIAL needs of this city before we can do anything about luxury things like NBA, Aquarium, etc.

Alvin Brown mentioning of bring NBA to Jacksonville is an act of immaturity on his behalf. I don't want someone who have one or two immature personality traits to be running the city as the Mayor. Would you?

-Josh

QuoteThe Seattle franchise relocated to Oklahoma City. The economics of the NBA would, and are, addressed by the NBA itself. Jacksonville's market size would be important of course but the city is growing while other cities once larger than Jax are losing population.
If any of the owners were to consider moving their teams, it very realistic to consider Jacksonville a home.
Historically, it was considered an unrealistic expectation for Jax to get an NFL franchise. But so we did. And as much as one would gossip about the Jags leaving, Wayne Weaver continues to portray the solidity of the Jags in Jax.
If the mayor of Jax was to voice interest in an NBA franchise, I feel the expectation would be much more realistic

Respectfully, nothing about the NBA in Jax is based on reality.

NBA in Jax is nothing more than a smoke screen to divert attention away from the real issues affecting our community.  On those issues, Mr Brown is not up to speed.

Audrey is the most dynamic leader in this race.  With her at the healm, our city will finally become The Bold New City of the South once again.  I have never been so sure of anything in my life, and my love for this city is higher than the BankofAmerica Tower and longer than the St Johns River.

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 09, 2011, 03:59:11 PM
We have little hoops history in this town....we have 2 college teams that get pathetic fan support...and we have an ABA team (like 60+ other cities) that barely drew 3,000 people per game...so here is a simple list of 5 cities that would likely be considered before Jax. for an NBA team

Las Vegas
Baltimore
Tampa
Seattle
San Diego

and assuming the New Orleans team continues struggling financially and closes/moves, that city would also be on the list ahead of us.

I stand by my example of Oklahoma City getting a franchise. We are definitely in the league (no pun intended) of Oklahoma City. Seattle and San Diego have a hex of losing a franchise, probably because of not coming to terms with the owners of those franchises. All those cities listed above are contenders for an NBA franchise, just has St Louis and Tennessee were contenders for the NFL expansion in the 90s when Jacksonville acquired the Jags. The difference then was we prepared a plan the appealed to the owners so much that it chose Jacksonville. Most of Jax thought it was unrealistic to get an NFL franchise. Until it happened. Many of those same literally pray for the day that franchise leaves town.

QuoteThe idea of bringing NBA to Jacksonville during its hardship and economic woes. I don't care if it helps the city one way or another, but we got to take care the ESSENTIAL needs of this city before we can do anything about luxury things like NBA, Aquarium, etc.

Alvin Brown mentioning of bring NBA to Jacksonville is an act of immaturity on his behalf. I don't want someone who have one or two immature personality traits to be running the city as the Mayor. Would you?

-Josh[quote/]
Brown has always pointed to his experience in job growth has his approach to the major problem
facing Jacksonville today. While that same problem plagues all those above cities today, Jacksonville's problem is not on the level of many of those cities. These times, as dismal has you want to believe, should also be viewed as an opportunity to take a giant leap forward. Alvin Brown is the only candidate that sees this. All great cities share such history. Why not us?

As
Wacca Pilatka said, just his optimism alone is to be admired.
As to Alvin Browns immaturity, to me its a question of skepticism ("Why should we have an NBA team in Jacksonville?")    vs optimism ("Why not?")

Oklahoma City did not have any team before Seattle's owner relocated his team to that isolated market.  We happen to already have a major professional sports franchise and are within a short drive of four others, one of which happens to be two hours away.  These two issues are significant enough to discredit the Oklahoma City comparison.

Do we need to split the thread to a getting an NBA team topic that I won't need to check.

Only if the Magic moved here would it be in the realm of possibility.