Has about 100 small "rooms for rent" fliers on the counter where you pay. We don't want to support that in the neighborhood. My understanding is that the owner is generally supportive of revitalization, so someone needs to talk to him about that. Or next time i'll just snag them all.
Im starting to get the feeling his is paying lip service to that idea. He took down the pipes he had displayed, but still had rolling papers and razor blades prominently displayed by the register. But I also have to wonder how the neighborhood looks from his eyes. I bet not very good. He sees the crummiest of the crummy in that place. E. 8th has some significant issues with loiterers and assorted characters..
"room for rent" is legit business but not in Springfield according historical guidelines. Maybe his clients do need to rent rooms which is much better than homeless shelter. Why not collect information from landlords outside the historical area and provide listing service for rooms available outside the historical Springfield? Would that be a win-win solution?
Does anyone know where the rooms are located which are advertised for rent on these fliers ?
In fact, while these are not our flyers, rooms for rent by a residing owner or leaseholder is not illegal in Springfield nor anywhere in Jacksonville. There are density limits that eventually come into play, but within those limits, there is no issue with it. Say an owner of a house lost their high paying job and needs a couple of roommates to keep their house from ending up on the foreclosure list. Nothing wrong with them renting out a couple of rooms. I strongly suggest that if any one of you has an issue the flyers, get one, call the number and find out the real info before you make those complaints to the city. It is simply the neighborly thing to do. Then, if someone is running an illegal rooming house, you can call in the complaint., If not, wish the owner luck.
Ummm.....right. I'm sure the guy just lost his job and he's taking random people from a gas station into his home. Get real.
Actually, fsu813, in todays economic enviroment, you are the one who needs a reality check. Many people who wouldn't have dreamed they would take in rommmates are now doing it because they are at risk of losing their homes. Not saying that is the case here, but everyone needs to start realizing that is the world we live in today.
Look to see much, much more of this and even more structured transitional housing all over Jacksonville, including Springfield. For that matter, what is 3rd and Main but basically transitional housing. If Shands backs down on putting patients there, who do you think they will rent to?
I agree with you on the most part, strider, but I can guarantee that 3rd and main won't be trying to aim for the same market that those fliers at bp are aiming for. Something tells me the deposits required to move in will be quite a bit different, for one.
Any sane person would look else where (craiglist, etc) to advertise rooms in their home for rent. Not a gas station that is frequented by all kinds of crazies ....though I do stop by on some occasions I don't consider myself a 'crazy' =)
I think fsu813 is pointing out that this gas station is not a place where you look for room mates. The people that may be interested are not likely to be of high moral character. Most likely an addict or drunk that is probably about to be booted from his previous residence or already has been.
And part of my point was, how do you know? Has anyone concerned bothered to call and find out if it is a flop house in the making or legit? You are just assuming that everyone that uses that gas station is up to no good? It is too easy to just assume the worst and not bother to find out. And 3rd and Main will do whatever they have to do to pay for that 6.2 million dollar building. HUD or a new program that may be coming down the road - whatever needed - if the Shands thing doesn't work out. And from the last SPAR Council board meeting, I'd say that is a possibility.
What happened during the last board meeting that gave you the impression that the Shands thing might not work out?
1) refering to the gas station, call it an educated guess on what kind of clientele those fliers may attract
2) refering to 3rd & Main, if the apartments are not overpriced most will be filled by Proton patients (not Shands per say)
I buy gas all the time, does not make me "up to no good" because I frequent a gas station? OK. I am twisting it a bit. The fact is that the gas station is a very good place to advertise because it is volume of people go through. Just think about the last 10 times you stop to get gas, you could have entered the store to pay for the gas, to buy a pack of cig, to get a bottle of water, get coffee in the morning, pick up a pack of soda or water, get windshield wiper fluid, ask for direction (ok) or use the bathroom.......
gas station is not just for people who "hang out" at the gas station. Even for people who just hang out at the gas station, they are not necessarily "bad" people.
wow
I'm generally wary of that gas station too. My gf thought it was all great that they fixed it up but I pointed out all the beer signs in the windows. It's well known that the margins on gas are slim and most of the money is made through people coming into the store. To me that place is just another liquor store that will attract the element we don't want in the hood (no joke intended here). Selling pipes, papers, and razor blades (seriously folks, who the hell goes there to get a razor blade) and having room for rent signs on the counter, that does not sound like the sort of business we need to rehabilitate. My thought is, does a Gate or Kangaroo have those sorts of things, especially one located on the South Side.
i'm just saying that if you are looking for people to rent rooms from a gas station, that gas station in particular, then that's not not part of revitalization and that's not some guy that looking for a quality roommate, like some have suggested. it hurts, not helps, the area.
And your attitude, fsu813, along with the attitudes of some others as well, hurts Springfield far more than that gas station ever will. It is sad that you can't understand that. Springfield is and will be for quite some time, a low income neighborhood, regardless of all the hype. The sooner everyone accepts that and works within those boundaries, the sooner it will grow. Telling yourself something different, making unfounded accusations and holding onto ridiculously poor attitudes does nothing but prolong the revitalzation.
I'm taking a side here with fsu. If you continue to perceive Springfield as a low income neighborhood then that's what it will be. It is not a low income neighborhood anymore. If you average the households out, then it's a middle income neighborhood! And we are well on our way to becoming an upper-middle income neighborhood. BTW, Stephen, the original post said razor blades not razors. I'm thinking the kind I use to scrape stickers off glass. I've got a pack that I bought years ago and I still haven't used them all. If I need more than I can bike to the nearby hardware store.
I have to agree with Deuce springfield is no longer a low income neighborhood. There is still work to do but even with the down turn in the economy there is quite a bit of renovation going on. What seems to be happening is the out of state investors that came to springfield and purchased 5 to 10 houses with the intent of doing no work and selling them for 100 percent profits are going into forcloser. The houses are back on the market and are being purchased by people that want to renovate them as there own home.
Why Do you hate America?
Those of who want a safe, clean place to shop are clearly wrong. Stop screwing over the neighborhood with your antiquated ideas. Safety is a figment of your imagination, and the concept of supporting businesses that support your community is out of date and racist. Just throw your money at any old business, because its not important the quality of the business, but the fact that there is one there at all.
Get it straight guys!
strider, do you own the flagship apartments or maybe a check cashing joint in Springfield?
- just curious
No, I don't. But I once believed that Springfield was "on it's way". Then reality stepped in. Look at the data available. Historic Springfield itself is far from "well off". And to be viable on a commercial level, it must be looked at as part of the surrounding areas. With 44% of the residents at 15K a year or more, how can you not consider this area low income?
These people with which you have issues were here before us, were here when no one else wanted it and now are still here. All I am trying to say is that if you don't embrace the reality of the situation, you will end up spinning your wheels and getting nowhere fast. Look at Main Street. What part is looking successful and what types of businesses are there?
You want the gas stations not to sell single beers or not to have anything that might be used by the drug users. What else do you have in mind that they might sell? Can you get all of them to not do it at once? If not, they all must to compete. Do not judge a store owner based on what he must sell to compete with the others a block away. Not in this economy.
You want better neighbors? First, what exactly does that mean to you? What makes Springfield a better community? If it’s less crime, then Flagship, for one, has been working on that, haven't they? Less drug use? Then promote low income places that promote themselves as drug free. Stop grouping everyone together and try to see life as they do. Be more realistic in what businesses should be allowed in Springfield and not expect the Starbucks or Guccis anytime soon. We seem to be heading for a worse economy for the foreseeable future and that means more lower income residents not fewer.
You are not wrong to want less crime, less drug use on the streets and a better area. Just be aware that low income, room renting and such does not automatically equate to the things you don’t like to see in Springfield. It does not automatically equate to bad places or bad people.
John, Stider used to be pro-Springfield before he realized there was more money in "recovery houses" than in trying to fix up old houses. Now he has a vested interest in the status quo, because an impoverished and down trodden community is less likely to complain about his business. He makes a point of telling everyone who is intersted in Springfield that they would be much happier up in Northshore, and then tells everyone in the community that wants clean and safe businesses in the community that they are out of touch, and that gucci is out of reach, when really, we all just want a place where we dont have to wade through piles of litter, and step over drug dealers. BP is just fine, he just doesnt understand why people in the community might be upset over him selling pipes and razors. In fairness, when Matt and I spoke to him about the pipes, he took them out of plain sight.
strider you stated that "These people with which you have issues were here before us, were here when no one else wanted it and now are still here" They were not here prior to the middle class people that are working to improve Springfield we just came back to reclame what we built 75 to 120 years ago.
Its not a frigging "us versus them" senario anyway. I am MORE than willing to help a good neighbor who is poor. Lend them lawn equipment, help them paint a house. The vast majority of my neighbors are the same way. SOME posters are making this about race and class. It isnt. Its about crime, and a sense of safety.
I've gotta go with Johhny on this..."wow".
The "middle class" that abandoned Springfield certainly does have a right to come back, buy houses and live here. The point is, so do the people who are here already. You might be here for the cool houses and the coolness factor of living in an urban area. The lower income people were/ are here because of the services available - a good public transportation system and routes, affordable housing, businesses that they can use, etc. Either way, it is home to both of you now. Perhaps rather than say "we are reclaiming it back", you should be saying "we are joining you".
There is a difference between having issues about race and class and worrying about safety and wanting less crime, that is very true. The point of my posts on this thread was pointing out that not all that use the facilities here in Springfield are criminals, not all of the poor are bad and if you rent a room to someone or for that matter, if you live in a rooming house, you are not automatically up to no good. Only one poster mentioned race. Race has nothing to do with this discussion, unless you wish it to or believe it does. It is about perceptions of certain things on the part of some and that is all I was addressing.
We can continue on our merry way, just like we have for the last twenty years or we can try something new. In my opinion, the something new is embracing all of the residents in Springfield. Recognizing everyone’s rights to be here and perhaps then we can work together to combat the crime issues.
Strider, they are just concerned that the local gas station is selling drug paraphernalia and advertising rentals that appeal to the drug addled crowd in Springfield. It's the same as not wanting the local motel to rent by the hour. Now, you could argue that the poor can only afford to sleep for an hour at a time, or can't drive to the drug store for razors and brillo, but I would say that that argument is full of s%#t. Anyone with half a brain knows that it is a good thing to be opposed to these kinds of behaviors in the neighborhood where you live, no matter the income level of anyone there.
There are a few houses here in springfield that where build by the upper class but the vast majority where built by the middle class. for example the person that built my house worked for the southern telegraph company.
So after all these posts, does anyone actually know where the advertised rooms are located and if they are legitimate or not ? Wouldn't this be the first question to answer ?
Quote from: downtownparks on February 20, 2009, 08:44:30 PM
John, Stider used to be pro-Springfield before he realized there was more money in "recovery houses" than in trying to fix up old houses. Now he has a vested interest in the status quo, because an impoverished and down trodden community is less likely to complain about his business. He makes a point of telling everyone who is intersted in Springfield that they would be much happier up in Northshore, and then tells everyone in the community that wants clean and safe businesses in the community that they are out of touch, and that gucci is out of reach, when really, we all just want a place where we dont have to wade through piles of litter, and step over drug dealers. BP is just fine, he just doesnt understand why people in the community might be upset over him selling pipes and razors. In fairness, when Matt and I spoke to him about the pipes, he took them out of plain sight.
When this post was put up, rather than address it publicly, I PM’d the writer and simply asked that he not misquote or misrepresent me or what I had said in the past. He got a little perturbed at me that I did that. In his last PM, he said I should have addressed it in the public forum. I thought it was personal and should not be addressed here, but as he asked…
I was a contractor but we stopped taking serious jobs long before the economy turned down. We decided we didn’t want to do it anymore. Anyone who truly wants to know why, PM me and I will be happy to tell you.
As to our vested interest in the status quo, that is just a ridiculous statement. While we do run a non-profit half way house and have other sober living facilities, not just in Springfield, our clients need and want to live in the same kind of community as all of you, preferably a successful, urban community. And a well informed, successful community would be less likely to complain about what we do than the Springfield that exists today or as described incorrectly by DTP as what I want.
As far as me telling anyone interested in Springfield that they would be much happier in Northshore? Yes, in a way, I have to a couple, but not really. I told a couple of people who posted that they were disgusted with Springfield and ready to buy elsewhere that if they really gave up on Springfield, then look at the Northshore area. And, if you read the related posts, I tell them about Northshore after I have told them not to give up on Springfield. A far cry from what DTP represented me as saying.
I have never said it was wrong to want a safe and clean community. No one, except perhaps the true criminal element, wants anything less. I have said that if you blame only the homeless, only the poor, only the rooming houses and only HUD housing for all the crime and litter and only believe that the answer is to move those groups of people out, then you are very wrong. If too many in this community feel that way and do not want to accept the realities of the situation, we will continue to have a deserted Main Street, the Proton patients will go elsewhere and so will all the coming development money.
I also have to be fair and correct the post that I currently live in Springfield. I do not. I did for many years, I still own property here and keep a business or two here. And I still have friends here. I care about Springfield as much now as I did before and as much as anyone else.
And, I might add, after three pages and all these posts, have any of you called and checked the “room to rent†flyer out? And, have you ever noticed that some actually advertise rooms for rent on the SPAR Council forum? Are they all bad people too? Or can you make those judgments solely by where you see the ad? Perhaps I do not always say things in the right way, but the bottom line will always be that if we care about this community and want it to succeed, then we must recognize that everyone has the right to live here and we must include the entire community in the process of revitalization. Anything less guarantees failure.
QuoteSpringfield is and will be for quite some time, a low income neighborhood, regardless of all the hype.
Between 2004 and 2008, the property values in the Springfield historic district rose more than $130,000,000 (yes, $130 million), as a result of all of the hard renovation and redevelopment work being done by residents and business owners. Is living here an investment? Damn right it is, but not just of money. I personally believe in the area's history, its active residents who go out of their way to make it feel like a community, and the businesses that want to support, not stifle, the current changes.
The current changes are good for everyone here... YES, especially low-income community members. Property taxes are capped for those who have always been here (3%/year, I believe) and longtime residents will benefit by increased safety, increased property value, improvements in transit, the addition of nearby jobs, proof that education pays off, and a reduction of negative social temptations.
QuoteWith 44% of the residents at 15K a year or more, how can you not consider this area low income?
This is information can be found in the LISC MetroEdge Retail Survey (2008). What it also said on or near that page, and what was conveniently left out, is that the neighborhood is in transition, and that the statistic is changing. If this doesn't work for anyone's existing business model, they either should adjust their business model or leave the area.
Change is good, as is the failure of the sheep costumes used by several wolves in the area...
Don't know exactly when, but it pains me more than anyone that the lot does not have a rentable building on it.
If I had to make a timing prediction, it will be after a couple of the nation's banks (Citigroup, and maybe Bank of America) are nationalized through preferred stock conversions, and the credit market for small commercial projects stabilizes. If you have any insight into when this will happen, please update me!
Not having rent-ready space on Main, now and when reconstruction of the street is complete, will definitely be a significant hurdle to creating commercial corridor momentum. If there is a plus side, I think it's that the businesses that are wanting to come in are legitimate enough to not tolerate non-renovated commercial space, as many have in the past.
I see nothing wrong or bully-ish of expecting a business to be a good neighbor. Support that business if it does not support you? Wow again
As for putting my money where my mouth is?? That would be a funny comment if it were not so sad. I bought my house in 2005 at what now appears to be a very, very inflated market price due to the housing "crisis". I have a wife & baby here. I'm sure with this economy and the fact the city AND businesses in the area are not supporting those spending money on bettering the neighborhood and instead justify selling brilo pads and razor blades, I'll never be able to sell for what I owe. So, apparently, my family will be here for quite some time, like it or not. So you can keep your cute little responses.
I am all for those of my neighbors that do not have much $ and am happy to call them neighbors. But, they are not standing on the corner with a single in their hand, or snatching stuff off my porch when I run inside to grab a screwdriver just so they can pay for their next high. Giving someone the means to get high is not supporting those on drugs, it's helping them stay in that cycle and you are not being a good neighbor by doing so. You can continue to spin the words anyway you see fit.
I'll just do what I have to do to keep this site clean. I hope that everyone will understand. This thread will be locked until site moderators have a chance to clean it up and get back on track.
The personal attacks have been removed....the thread will be returned and opened; however, it will be monitored and if the personal attacks start back up, then it'll once again be removed and will not be placed back or reopened....so please, let's stay on track with the topic.
Hey Zoo, thanks for quoting me. I’d like to return the favor:
QuoteBetween 2004 and 2008, the property values in the Springfield historic district rose more than $130,000,000 (yes, $130 million), as a result of all of the hard renovation and redevelopment work being done by residents and business owners. Is living here an investment? Damn right it is, but not just of money.
That’s great. But the fact that 44% of the residents are at a 15K or below income level is with these figures, correct? So that means that while all those property value increases occurred unless the home owners sold their house, they did not realize anything for it. With the homestead cap, if a low income family owned the house, the taxes did not raise with the values. If they rented, then their rent went up. Which may have made them poorer. In addition, we all know that property values have been falling at a record pace in 2008 and in 2009, which, according to the city, won’t be reflected in tax values until later this year, which is what I am guessing you based your numbers on. If I had to guess, we have lost at least 30 to 40% of that four year gain. What’s your guess?
QuoteI personally believe in the area's history, its active residents who go out of their way to make it feel like a community, and the businesses that want to support, not stifle, the current changes.
What changes are you talking about here? And how does a business “stifle†that change?
What I have seen as changes is fewer successful businesses, fewer houses being built, fewer houses being worked on, values dropping and a few people not wanting to accept the reality of it all.
QuoteThis is information can be found in the LISC MetroEdge Retail Survey (2008). What it also said on or near that page, and what was conveniently left out, is that the neighborhood is in transition, and that the statistic is changing. If this doesn't work for anyone's existing business model, they either should adjust their business model or leave the area.
Thanks for confirming that I had my information correct. But it wasn’t conveniently left out, it wasn’t relevant. Of course it is going to change. The questions to be asked now are by how much will it changes and which way will it go? A difficult question for anyone who wants to open a business here.
A quick look at the past shows that the types of businesses that most say they want, like nicer restaurants and clubs, nice and clean retail shops, etc have not had a great track record here. Main Street above 20th is in much better shape in regards to commercial development. Historic Springfield looks more like a wasteland. We can blame the construction for some of it, we can blame the “bad greedy property owners“…hey, we can find someone to blame for it all if we want. But that will not change anything. Nor will not recognizing that this area is and will be for quite some time yet a low income area, as it certainly is in the eyes of commercial developers.
To affect the kind of changes many want, we must go through the long process of proving that commercial ventures can succeed here. To do that, we must attract the right kinds of businesses. Not the right kind per SPAR Council, not the right kind by me. But the right kind that has a market now and will have one long enough to be successful. That is why it is important to acknowledge what Springfield really is and how it is really seen by potential commercial developers.
Hey, Strider, man, you're just never gonna win this one on here. Trust me on that. I had a bunch of rentals in Springfield, and I'm real familiar with the neighborhood and the usual people who live there. I could keep you in stitches for hours telling you about some of the crap I went through in that place. But every time I tried to discuss it on this message board, I get called a 'slumlord' or I get told I don't know what I'm talking about, or this or that or the other.
I even went down the same road you are going down now, and said that fixing up the Springfield termite traps won't do much until the 800-lb gorilla leaves the room and half the neighborhood isn't living in endemic poverty. In return, I got people implying I was racist, elitist, and posting articles trying to say that Springfield was not a blighted neighborhood, and one lady even tried to tell me it has higher average income than Riverside/Avondale or San Marco, and that Springfield is wealthier because they have less debt due to less inflated property values. Ya. Sure. Ok. It's a never-ending cycle though, you just can't win with this. Look up some of my old threads.
At one point when it really heated up I even made a list of stuff that I bet them could find in no time if I drove to Springfield, like empty malt liquor bottles laying all over, live chickens and stray dogs running around, used condoms, stolen shopping carts full of crap, fried chicken bones littering the sidewalks, prostitutes walking around, yada, yada, yada. They turned that around on me, telling me it's my own fault because people like me didn't help enough to clean up the neighborhood, and how Springfield just has a bad rap. I'm telling ya, you just can't win with these guys.
They see something that you and I don't. For whatever reason, these diehard Springfield'ers are willing to look past all the crap that goes on there, because they're convinced it's gonna to turn into the next ponte vedra. Who knows, maybe it will. Me, I'm done arguing about it one way or the other. You'll never convince them, and vice versa.
You guys have convinced me. I think it would be wise to sell crack in my backyard. The market supports it. Who gives a shit if it hurts the neighborhood, it's what sells that matters! Thanks guys!
The discussions would be more fruitful if people would provide facts rather than emotion. It still has not been posted where these rooms for rent are located and if they are legitimate or not. If property values are quoted, it would be nice to know if it's based on assessed value, market value, interpolated value based on recent sales, etc. It should also be clear if discussions refer to 32206 area code or the true Historic Springfield area.
It seems some of the same discussions which have been had, get brought up over and over again regardless of the thread topic with little new information added. Just my 2 cents.
GREAT POST!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 24, 2009, 09:44:47 AM
Hey, Strider, man, you're just never gonna win this one on here. Trust me on that. I had a bunch of rentals in Springfield, and I'm real familiar with the neighborhood and the usual people who live there. I could keep you in stitches for hours telling you about some of the crap I went through in that place. But every time I tried to discuss it on this message board, I get called a 'slumlord' or I get told I don't know what I'm talking about, or this or that or the other.
I even went down the same road you are going down now, and said that fixing up the Springfield termite traps won't do much until the 800-lb gorilla leaves the room and half the neighborhood isn't living in endemic poverty. In return, I got people implying I was racist, elitist, and posting articles trying to say that Springfield was not a blighted neighborhood, and one lady even tried to tell me it has higher average income than Riverside/Avondale or San Marco, and that Springfield is wealthier because they have less debt due to less inflated property values. Ya. Sure. Ok. It's a never-ending cycle though, you just can't win with this. Look up some of my old threads.
At one point when it really heated up I even made a list of stuff that I bet them could find in no time if I drove to Springfield, like empty malt liquor bottles laying all over, live chickens and stray dogs running around, used condoms, stolen shopping carts full of crap, fried chicken bones littering the sidewalks, prostitutes walking around, yada, yada, yada. They turned that around on me, telling me it's my own fault because people like me didn't help enough to clean up the neighborhood, and how Springfield just has a bad rap. I'm telling ya, you just can't win with these guys.
They see something that you and I don't. For whatever reason, these diehard Springfield'ers are willing to look past all the crap that goes on there, because they're convinced it's gonna to turn into the next ponte vedra. Who knows, maybe it will. Me, I'm done arguing about it one way or the other. You'll never convince them, and vice versa.
Or maybe some of us just look past it because we love the neighborhood, our neighbors, and our house. I would f'n hate it if it became Ponte Vedra, and don't feel much sympathy for the people that moved in because it was the next big deal in real estate, and I doubt many of them are true Springfielders.
I just stopped by the gas station and bought a bottle of diet coke. Here is my field report:
1. There is no 'room for rent' flier. The only flier i can see is 'lost chihuahua' There is a room for rent sign at the labor pool on the other side of the liberty.
2. The place is clean and a significant improvement compare to the previous. Yes. i did visit the gas station before to rent U-haul and buy gas.
3. Within the high traffic area, there is cheap juice $0.35; T-U $0.75 and some cold drink. Beer is only 1 out of 4 options. The other 3 are non-alcoholic. There is also a coffee/slush counter. The coffee is not too expensive but smells nicer than the McDonald/Burger king variety.
4. The bathroom is clean. Comparable to home depot.
I have made a point to stop by several gas stations in Jacksonville in last few days. This is one of the nicer kind. I did not see razor blade in this one but saw it in one Kangeroo in Mandarin. I personally consider it an improvement to the previous one. I say any improvement should be encouraged. I will gladly trade the Shell at 8th and Blvd for this one.
Give me a break. First, Chris, I think the reason you got called out is because you were so adamant about how much of a desolate wasteland Springfield was. you don't like it. We get it. Cool. Sorry you had a bad experience. I think the issue came about because you worked a bit too hard trying to tell us we were all cracked. That always will set the tables for a confrontation.
I wasnt the one who brought up the flyers. I never saw them, I dont know anything about that issue. Second, my comment all along has been BP is basically ok. He has had some littler problems, but that wasn't my primary concern. Several of us noticed the pipes being sold, and asked him to stop selling them. He removed them from plain view. As far as what sorts of malt beverages he carries, I personally cant begrudge him anything on that front. Beer is perfectly legal to sell. there really isn't much discussion beyond that.
yo joemerchant, you and I would definitely move if it does become the next PV, thats for sure. The neighborhood association would make us fix the peeling paint and turn down the tunes when we're jamming out, that would completely suck.
Quote from: downtownparks on February 24, 2009, 11:29:09 AM
Give me a break. First, Chris, I think the reason you got called out is because you were so adamant about how much of a desolate wasteland Springfield was. you don't like it. We get it. Cool. Sorry you had a bad experience. I think the issue came about because you worked a bit too hard trying to tell us we were all cracked. That always will set the tables for a confrontation.
I wasnt the one who brought up the flyers. I never saw them, I dont know anything about that issue. Second, my comment all along has been BP is basically ok. He has had some littler problems, but that wasn't my primary concern. Several of us noticed the pipes being sold, and asked him to stop selling them. He removed them from plain view. As far as what sorts of malt beverages he carries, I personally cant begrudge him anything on that front. Beer is perfectly legal to sell. there really isn't much discussion beyond that.
Much better stated than my previous post. I actually purchase quite a bit of gasoline from this BP. I rarely go into any gas station, but I've been in this one and was aware of the pipes & razor blades and between that and the comments posted, chimed in.
Also, Stephen, you mentioned changing a business in a positive way? What exactly does that mean? Buying up all of the razor blades and pipes and donating them to a nicer neighborhood?
Stephen, at your suggestion I just read through this whole thread! One comment!
HA! HA! HA!
(Oops was that 3 comments?)
Those of us who are Expatriates, San Francisco Tainted, Urbano types, don't generally give a Shit if someone passes out at the weekly dinner meeting (hee hee). Seems to me this is just Jacksonville, being Jacksonville! Fighting off the Maggot Infested, Hippie, Flower Child, Leaping Gnomes and bowing at the statue of the great symbol of Cowford... (Uh? Do we even have a signature symbol?).
Now you really upper income, push it over the top, rubber stamping, Vanilla clean freaks don't ask me how I know this... I just know it okay?
But Razor Blades have nothing to do with Rolling Papers! Idiots!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 24, 2009, 12:01:04 PM
Stephen, at your suggestion I just read through this whole thread! One comment!
HA! HA! HA!
(Oops was that 3 comments?)
Those of us who are Expatriates, San Francisco Tainted, Urbano types, don't generally give a Shit if someone passes out at the weekly dinner meeting (hee hee). Seems to me this is just Jacksonville, being Jacksonville! Fighting off the Maggot Infested, Hippie, Flower Child, Leaping Gnomes and bowing at the statue of the great symbol of Cowford... (Uh? Do we even have a signature symbol?).
Now you really upper income, push it over the top, rubber stamping, Vanilla clean freaks don't ask me how I know this... I just know it okay?
But Razor Blades have nothing to do with Rolling Papers! Idiots!
OCKLAWAHA
Who said they did???
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 24, 2009, 12:01:04 PM
But Razor Blades have nothing to do with Rolling Papers! Idiots!
OCKLAWAHA
Huh? I wish pot was the problem. I wouldn't give a damn, but people don't snatch your ladder off your porch to sell at the pawn shop to pay for their weed.
I think you are over-scrutinizing the issue. But, I can only hope that if they are shopping at Bed, Bath & Beyond, they'll find a loofa they would rather have instead.
strider -
advertising rooms for rent at a gas station that is frequented (more often than not) by jobless, bums, & druggies is very different from advertising a room for rent on the SPAR website. i guess you don't see the difference.
note: i'm not saying the gas station is dirty or shouldn't sell malt, etc. i've gone there several times and i'll do so again on occasion....but ceratin actions or inactions visibly support, condone, or make it easier for people to do things that bring down the area.
stephen -
your exaggerations (shutting down every place that sells razor blades) don't help to make your point. it just shows you are not being realistic.
Quotefsu813: advertising rooms for rent at a gas station that is frequented (more often than not) by jobless, bums, & druggies is very different from advertising a room for rent on the SPAR website. i guess you don't see the difference.
As you and many other of your peers go there upon occassion, there is no difference to see between advertising at a gas station which was suggested by SPAR Council that everyone support, by the way, and the SPAR Council forum. Or the times union, or...well, name your prefered advertising media.
Overall, it seems that whomever put out the flyers, or perhaps someone associated with the gas station read this forum and took away the flyers. Now, I guess the person wanting to rent a room could have rented it and picked up the extra flyers, but that doesn't seem like the actions of a two bit addict looking for a fellow addict like has been implied here. Either way, it is sad that they had to see this all. This was not showing them the pretty side of Springfield. This is what is more likely to "bring down the area", at least in people's minds.
You're right, it doesn't show the pretty side of the neighborhood....but it also doesn't speak for all of us who live here. I've been in that station and it's clean and seems perfectly okay to me. Although I really didn't go in looking for what's wrong with the place.
Have we all finished wringing our hands enough now? Its amazing how ramped up things get when you have one shrill voice stirring the pot.
The BP is not bad, as far as Gas Stations in Springfield go. I agree with Fat Cat in as much as, its 10 times better than The Shell at 8th and Blvd, or the Shell downtown (both owned by the same company). Sammy at 3rd and Main has made something of an effort. There is also a brand new gas station at 19th and Main, just south of the expressway that looks ok. BP is somewhere in the middle.
The razors, on their own, are meaningless. They are sold at stores all over. However, when they sit in a prominent position on the shelf next to the cash register, with the rolling papers, lighters and pipes (which have now been taken down) then its a bit more nefarious. Illegal? No probably not, but certainly the message is pretty clear.
Most Springfielders probably dont say a word about it. They just go elsewhere with their money. In the dozens of times I have been there to buy gas, or other goods, I have run into someone I might also run into at a Springfield party... uhm... zero times. So no, they arent dumb enough to come on here and engage, and have shots taken at them, but just because they arent vocal on here, dont assume they aren't vocal with how they spend their money.
Bought gas at Liberty BP the other day. Burns good.
Quote from: stephendare on February 24, 2009, 05:42:29 PM
Try the positive solutions above and you will find, as both san marco and five points did, a much better outcome.
You simply dont see the San Marco Merchants flogging any of these issues.
Instead, they created a nice upscale beautiful alternative.
Not exactly. The residents of Riverside/Avondale and RAP was very vocal and did put pressure on businesses back then to get on board and not continue to enable the criminals. But, it was also more acceptable to gentrify a neighborhood back in the 70's - early 90's and we didn't have forums and the internet to let everyone complain about it. Now crime and drug addiction is accepted as people being victim to their surroundings. Funny how that is one argument, but those same people complain that accommodating that victim to continue in the downward spiral is ok. Seems hypocritical to me, but rock on folks.
Quote from: Johnny on February 25, 2009, 10:13:18 AM
Now crime and drug addiction is accepted as people being victim to their surroundings. Funny how that is one argument, but those same people complain that accommodating that victim to continue in the downward spiral is ok. Seems hypocritical to me, but rock on folks.
Here is a Riddle of perception for you:
Would walking down a railroad track somewhere in the cloud forests of the Andes, whilst chewing a mouth full of Cocoa leaves be criminal behavior?
WHY?
Because your perception is that you'd be high, deadly stoned and in deep trouble.
FACT?
It won't do a damn thing except make you positive on a urine test. It won't hurt your body or get you any higher then eating a peach!
You see? You PUT-LIME-IN-THE-COKE-YOU-NUT. Leaves are green and Lime is WHITE! When you go "white" you'll no longer care.
So what is the difference between someone sleeping in an alley in Springfield and someone sleeping in Ponte Vedra Beach?
The surroundings and the financing method's used.
The man of great face, that passed out on the stairs last night in Ponte Vedra was unseen, behind his towering walls. The guy in the alley is seen but faceless.
LIME-IN-THE-COKE! God I love this city!OCKLAWAHA
OCK, I dont think anyone is trying to deal with the morality of the issue.
On that point, my Libertarian leanings become more of a tilt. I personally believe that If I want to sit in my living room and smoke crack rock, I should be allowed to. If you legalize the drugs, you making them a little less bad for the user because they are no longer going to be cut with Baking Soda and Draino, you take the money out of it, because the 1000+% mark up goes away, you take the social taboo out of it (allowing addicts who are otherwise decent people to contribute), and you can then tax it and regulate it, allowing a revanue stream to put back into funding education.
Making it illegal does nothing but ruin city streets, and make thugs rich, and get crap stolen of our porches.
Legalize vice and balance the budget!
How exactly has anyone attacked the business owner? By asking him to not carry drug paraphernalia? HOW DARE WE!
The construction and pawnshops are my fault?
Quote from: downtownparks on February 25, 2009, 04:46:30 PM
How exactly has anyone attacked the business owner? By asking him to not carry drug paraphernalia? HOW DARE WE!
But this response is a bottomless pit that will end in self defeat. Witness the drinking straws at any restaurant in town... Spoons? Got to get them out too....Bowls? Saucers? Glass Ware? Nope damned dope crushers blow man! You see it's just like the NRA says:
When "Straws" are controlled
only Junkies will have "Straws".OCKLAWAHA
Is it really this hard to wrap your minds around this? Does walmart or walgreens have known items related to drug use grouped at each check out counter? This whole thread makes me think Mike Judge got it right in Idiocracy.
Stephen, it's not "attacking" business owners to expect a higher level of service in an area of which you live. Inspect what you expect.
Strider was absolutely correct about the commercial development. When commercial developers look at the Springfield core, the economics fit. But when a market researcher widens the radius to include a larger population to support a business, the economics are terrible.
Developers/retailers are looking and watching Springfield. Unfortunately. some local developers are born and raised in JAX and have a stigma about Springfield. When they drive through, they still see a lot of the same street traffic (and the business that support it) and it just reinforces what they already believe.
It's definitely a "catch 22" though. There's nothing wrong in raising the standards of business conduct in a community, because as those standards are increased, some more reputable businesses (than liquor and pawn) want to be here.
It seems everyone posting here has some good points, but this problem does not have an easy solution.
Quote from: stephendare on February 25, 2009, 04:51:32 PM
looks great bro! Keep it up!
Ill forward the demand to walmart and walgreens which btw, carry the same stuff. Unlike the BP, as already mentioned by a poster who actually went there.
Another classic Dare move. Completely distract from the point with mindless quibbling.
I was in there yesterday, the razors and rolling papers are still next to the lighters, which are all prominently displayed next to the register. However, the pipes have been taken down, so the main complaint of multiple people in the community has been addressed. This, last I checked, is whats called working with the owner.
However, we can keep droning on and throwing barbs at each other, as thats whats really productive.
Quote from: Sigma on February 25, 2009, 05:14:16 PM
Strider was absolutely correct about the commercial development. When commercial developers look at the Springfield core, the economics fit. But when a market researcher widens the radius to include a larger population to support a business, the economics are terrible.
Developers/retailers are looking and watching Springfield. Unfortunately. some local developers are born and raised in JAX and have a stigma about Springfield. When they drive through, they still see a lot of the same street traffic (and the business that support it) and it just reinforces what they already believe.
In most revitalizing urban districts, developers are the last to join in on the fun. Springfield's commercial fortunes will rest on its ability to attract urban pioneers, startups and small local businesses. I think this is where the greatest fight in enhancing the commerical corridors need to focus on. Luckily for us all, nothing is new under the sun. There are good and bad examples out there to follow. We just need to select a route and stick to it.
Who exactly am I bullying? There is one bully on this forum. Any guesses who that is?
Make all the accusations you want but you know for a hard cold fact, as does anyone who knows me, that I support every single business you mentioned, (except the blue market, which I have never heard of) including yours and the Epicurean when they were open. You have a personal beef with me over some perceived injustice, that simply does not equal bullying.
Asking a business to be a good neighbor, and "bullying" them are not the same thing, and if you cant see that then you are the one with the problem not the people who actually own houses and are raising family's here.
It would be great to keep this thread on track.
What and where is the Blue Market?
Thank God almighty. Its about time you leave me the hell alone.
As alway you have a real penchant for spinning though. You have time and again bashed me on here, only to say "its not all about me". Sweet freaking irony. The man who seems to think he is the center of the effing universe, accusing someone else of narcissism?
Fatcat wrote "Legalize vice and balance the budget!"
I second the motion.
i think we should settle this the old fahsioned way: baby oil diaper wrestling.
Hell, I third it. Legalization goes a long way to take the crime and blight out of the equation.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on February 25, 2009, 05:54:25 PM
Fatcat wrote "Legalize vice and balance the budget!"
I second the motion.
I like that idea too ;)
Always extreme...
Wal-Mart? Walgreens? NO!
Did you know that a fire log can be used with a flint and a handfull of dry moss to start a fire? Great for cooking your stash.
Do they sell firelogs there?
Walgreens has Tee Shirts, Jeeze folks have you ever heard of strainers? What better way to clean up your brew then a good old 100% cotton import from India (home of the Hookah)
Rooms for rent won't work either, with a room I could hide a complete still, and make a buck on the side selling my friends by the hour.
So we finally get to the very bottom.
From this point on:
All fires are hearby banned.
All clothing is absolutely banned.
And nobody but nobody can live in a room in Springfield.
Leaving us a cold, barren, naked landscape!
OH I KNOW! I KNOW!
Cold + barren + naked? Must be SPRINGFIELD in Jacksonville. Quote"This will mellow you out, man.
What is this, man?
Just take them.
Hey, don't take those, man.
What?
I almost gave you the wrong shit, man.
I already took them, man.
Ho ho ho ho!
What do you mean ho ho ho ho?
Wow, man!
What was that shit, man?
You just ate the most acid
I've ever seen anybody eat in my life.
I never had no acid before, man.
I hope you're not busy for about a month."
Excerpts from Cheech and Chongs Screenplay "Up In Smoke"
(A survivors guide to Springfield)
OCKLAWAHA
This has really gone way out there....what happened to reasonable discussion..... ::)
Dtp. Everything doesnt have to be about you.
Laughing hysterically
Quote from: Springfielder on February 25, 2009, 06:55:50 PM
This has really gone way out there....what happened to reasonable discussion..... ::)
I'll second that.
That's the whole point of all the crazy joking around on here... Quote"The United States continues to attack the symptom and not the cause, there can be no PUSH without a PULL." Bettencourt Belesario - Past President of The Republic of Colombia, Sec. General of the UN
OCKLAWAHA
Some of you keep ragging on Stephen, but he is making a valid point...
You can't act like the gas station is contributing to problems in the neighborhood. In reality, it's the exact opposite. They are only offering what SELLS in that market, plain and simple. If it didn't sell, they wouldn't offer it. Pipes and razor blades are next to the checkout BECAUSE of the problems in the neighborhood. But the problems in the neighborhood don't exist because the gas station is selling pipes and razor blades.
If you make them get rid of rooms for rent fliers, or pipes and razor blades, do you really think it will make any difference? It won't. People will just get the stuff somewhere else, and meanwhile one of the few small businesses that's still trying to make it in that area will be out some portion of their revenue. If you press the issue far enough, you'll eventually be stuck with all the same neighborhood problems, but now you'll have no gas station.
It seems some people want to attack the symptom and not the disease.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on February 26, 2009, 09:27:52 AM
Some of you keep ragging on Stephen, but he is making a valid point...
You can't act like the gas station is contributing to problems in the neighborhood. In reality, it's the exact opposite. They are only offering what SELLS in that market, plain and simple. If it didn't sell, they wouldn't offer it. Pipes and razor blades are next to the checkout BECAUSE of the problems in the neighborhood. But the problems in the neighborhood don't exist because the gas station is selling pipes and razor blades.
If you make them get rid of rooms for rent fliers, or pipes and razor blades, do you really think it will make any difference? It won't. People will just get the stuff somewhere else, and meanwhile one of the few small businesses that's still trying to make it in that area will be out some portion of their revenue. If you press the issue far enough, you'll eventually be stuck with all the same neighborhood problems, but now you'll have no gas station.
It seems some people want to attack the symptom and not the disease.
Awesome, my malt liquor and lock picking tool store should be open any day now....
may i rent a space in your store to sell razor blades, pipes, and handguns?
if they want it, i should sell it to them i guess....
Of course you can fsu813, and if you need a place to live I'm renting rooms by the day in the back. I also buy copper by the pound, so if you have any bring it in....no questions asked.
yeah I just cleaned up my attic and have some room in my basement....heck I'll rent by the hour! :-*
I really think if you wanted to clean up financially, open up a shop that sells nothing but quarts, lotto and smokes when everything goes to hell I'll be in business thankfully my home is zoned commercial, get me a hotel motel license, a pig in you know what.
Screw that, go all the way. Sell crack... Give the people what they want!
Are we out to trash all of the businesses here in Springfield?
I think we are out for pure entertainment value under the guise of anonymity. Or maybe that's just me.
Quote from: movedsouth on February 26, 2009, 02:18:23 PM
Sounds like 3 Layers is getting the message: Soon to come, wine/beer/malt liquor? at three layers.
WTF? No Rebel Yell? Crazy neighborhood y'all have there...
Oh and for all you crack dealers out there, you DO KNOW that I am an adopted Colombian right? Doesn't matter anyhow, we don't have the stuff anymore, the Mexicans and Springfielders have the market cornered. GW helped us BOMB it out of the Country! (http://www.airforceworld.com/fighter/gfx/kfir/kfir_ce_1.jpg)
HEE HEE HEE
OCKLAWAHA
BTW, I noticed today Home depot has razor blades, metal box, pen, battery, draino, bleach and some other chemicals grouped at the checkout counter. Is someone going to do something about it? Can dangerous people make some addictive or even bomb out of it? People, get serious, terrorist are much more dangerous than crack heads. In fact, I bet you can get all the tools material needed to take down a house there. Gee, they even rent dumpsters.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 26, 2009, 04:55:44 PM
Quote from: movedsouth on February 26, 2009, 02:18:23 PM
Sounds like 3 Layers is getting the message: Soon to come, wine/beer/malt liquor? at three layers.
WTF? No Rebel Yell? Crazy neighborhood y'all have there...
Oh and for all you crack dealers out there, you DO KNOW that I am an adopted Colombian right? Doesn't matter anyhow, we don't have the stuff anymore, the Mexicans and Springfielders have the market cornered. GW helped us BOMB it out of the Country!
(http://www.airforceworld.com/fighter/gfx/kfir/kfir_ce_1.jpg)
HEE HEE HEE
OCKLAWAHA
what kind of airplane is that ocklawaha?
Quotewhat kind of airplane is that
- The export version Kfir CE
Wiki says, "an Israeli-built all-weather, multi-role combat aircraft based on a modified Dassault Mirage 5 airframe, with Israeli avionics and an Israeli-made version of the General Electric J79 turbojet engine."
Quote from: stephendare on February 27, 2009, 09:07:46 AM
ChrisW
Theres no point in arguing with a couple of these guys.
They know everything there is to know 'bout naybuhood genterfikation'
Which probably has nothing to do with the fact that over fifty small businesses opened closed or moved elsewhere over the past couple of years and the only thing open is gas stations (for now) a a chinese restaurant and the fried chicken joints.
lol.
Obviously the blame lies on the neighborhood, no business shuts down because it was poorly run or really didn't have the funds needed to open in the first place, or had a bad business plan all together.
It's always the customer's fault.
lol.
This talk about business boycotting is pure paranoia. Bottom line, people in every neighborhood in every city and state frequent businesses they like. I'm not going to patronize a business that does not offer what I need or want. I think Hola is absolutely adorable, one of the best looking places in town but I do not like Mexican food. I think the space and owners at 3 Layers are awesome but I don't drink coffee. The people at Shantytown are so nice I wished I liked beer and wine so I could support them more but alas, I am a whiskey drinker. I don't buy gas in Springfield because I am cheap and I can fill up while running erands in other locations. Call me unsophisticated but the business I frequent the most is Popeye's. I am a New Orleans girl and I love my red beans and rice. I went in Tuesday for Mardi Gras and took beads to all the employees and got the shrimp platter that I have been anxiously awaiting. If a business wants to sell singles and brillo pads instead of organic milk and home design magazines that is their choice, just don't expect every resident to frequent your business. A neighbor at my previous residence in another part of town owns one of the stores here. I would go in and tease him about bringing in some more upscale products to accomodate the new residents of Springfield, to which he would, shake his head and say "we'll just move." The reality is the market dictates what will and will not succeed. A business owner in Springfield can choose to change and adapt, move or fail, the same as a business owner in any other part of town.
Quote from: blizz01 on February 26, 2009, 11:13:13 PM
Quotewhat kind of airplane is that
- The export version Kfir CE
Wiki says, "an Israeli-built all-weather, multi-role combat aircraft based on a modified Dassault Mirage 5 airframe, with Israeli avionics and an Israeli-made version of the General Electric J79 turbojet engine."
YEP... I was there when they first came roaring in. 40+ in one night! AWESOME! OCKLAWAHA
VIVA LA REPUBLICA COLOMBIA
I do think that there are plenty of businesses that would come into the spaces on Main St. if,
1) more of them were built out and rehabbed (most are not habitable at this time.)
2) rents were more affordable
3) Main St. was not all torn up
None of these major issues are the consumers fault
How would you suggest creating street traffic when the actual street and sidewalks are all torn up?
The answer never changes, but heavy construction, availability of viable buildings and financial resources have a large impact in implementing the answer's components.
So lets pick these three components (events, anchors and visual imprinting) apart one by one. Visual imprinting seems like the easiest to pull off but feel free to describe in detail.
What type of events and organized by who? Is there a particular market demographic that should be targeted and why?
What type of realistic anchors based off available space, lease rates and specific location to stimulate pedestrian movement between certain spots? What is the proper way to overcome the negatives of street construction in attracting anchors?
I know Regency has tons of traffic but they still have had many businesses fail. Same goes for other areas of town. If you provide a destination that people want to go to you will succeed. The Pearl is a perfect example of this. I was in New Orleans a couple of weeks ago. After attending parades uptown our group decided to go have dinner. Well, we're in N.O. so pick a corner. It's almost all good. Well my dad got it in his mind that we had to get catfish from an old favorite. Middendorff's is in Pass Manchac, a forty minute drive from the city and in the middle of nowhere. As usual, the place was packed to capacity. For all the talk of businesses not being able to succeed, Hola, The Pearl, Earl Horne, Catlin's, A-Z sandwiches, Chan's, The Uniform Man, Zombie/Burro and co., Shantytown, A&A Auto, Carl's, Popeye's, KFC, Jerome Browns, Krystal and others seem to be doing fine.
Exactly Springfield Girl...I would say that the two major business that shut down in the 4 years that I've been in Springfield were 9th and Main and Boomtown. Two major closings and a few smaller business closed, and a few nice businesses have opened up during that time...
I remember in Lakeland back in 87-88. An old woman of at least 90 asked if the "pretty rose in the vial" was made by the Blind. The Bodega owner handed her one, nodded and said "Whatever you like!" Honestly I saw those on the counter everywhere...but never noticed them till someone pointed it out.Silly me...I thought they used chore boy to scrub their pans? :P
Quote from: stephendare on February 27, 2009, 09:49:45 AM
Even last night at the beer and wine exception hearing for Three Layers (to allow them to sell upscale wine) one of these people stood up at the hearing to inform the zoning dept. that it was the Department's job to 'protect' their 'investment' on Walnut Street and speak against the exception. (which btw is a business exception that only attaches to the specific business to which its granted)
15 individuals (myself among them) and a representative from SPAR got up and spoke in favor of Three Layers' application for a zoning exemption yesterday afternoon. There was fantastic support and the Planning Commission said some highly complementary things about Three Layers and its owners.
To be fair to those opposed, I didn't hear anyone get up and merely ask that the commission "protect their property values." In fact, all of the those opposed noted that they liked and visited the coffee shop. One individual asked only for the addition of a restriction on opening hours as they were concerned with noise after 8pm. Another resident advanced a more technical legal argument that the exemption ran contrary to the historic overlay's preference for residential and residential-conforming daytime business uses and that the exemption would increase traffic and parking issues on Walnut St.
The commission rightly ruled that all of the contiguious parcels to Three Layers were already commercial and that a restaurant on one adjacent parcel already sold beer for off-site consumption. The commission also noted that the testimony of many residents in support--especially those nearby or on Walnut St.--confirned that no one's quiet enjoyment was threatened by the addition of a wine bar that stayed open until 10 or 11 pm.
It was a nice showing of many different interests in Springfield gathering together to debate local issues and overwhelmingly support the efforts of local small buiness owners. Frankly, it was breath of fresh air around here and something of which I'd like to see more.
Similarly, I've used the BP. It's well lit and pretty free of loiterers at night. I felt comfortable there alone after dark. It's a significant improvement over the Shell station and I'm thrilled to have nearby gas station. It may not be the most beautiful urban land use, but it is a necessary use!
SG. Thanks for reaffirming my point. None of those businesses are within the narrow guidelines of the 'demographic'. Therefore they succeed.
I don't really understand what you're saying Stephen. What demographic are you referring to? I'm sure most Springfield residents desire businesses that would appeal to a wider range of consumers. I love my fast food but I think we have that covered. I also think we have plenty of convenience stores and tax prep places. No need for more of those. The closing of at least one of the Pawn Shops leads me to believe that there is not enough business anymore to support the multiple locations that were operating here, just as there was not enough business anymore to support Quality foods. That said we are so underserved in so many areas and I would welcome any business that is legal and attractive looking. Well, I guess that's not entirely true. There are businesses that are legal but not desirable in my opinion, like strip clubs. I would love a garden shop. I make so many trips to Home Depot it's ridiculous. I always try Pasco's first for hardware but for outdoor stuff it's HD or Lowes. Pasco's is actually a great example of a Springfield business that adapted to the changing neighborhood. They moved to a larger, more attractive location and expanded the merchandise they offer. They made the store much friendlier for retail customers while still keeping their commercial business. A win-win situation for all parties.
Quotethe only thing open is gas stations (for now) a a chinese restaurant and the fried chicken joints.
... and Wafaa and Mike's, which did their first lunch today. Still working out some kinks in order-taking and drink-service, but the food was quite good (I had a chicken gyro) and generous portions. Thanks to Eddie, the chef!
QuoteSmall businesses make decisions based on customer traffic. There isnt any on Main Street.
Or maybe there is ... there was decent traffic flow at the place considering they weren't even officially open, yet. Some folks down from the port, some neighbors, BBB market guys and some of the guys working on the street. Checkout their official grand opening tomorrow!!
Thanks for the update Zoo. I'll have to try them out for lunch sometime next week.
I have started to compile a list of current and closed businesses for easy reference.
http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4560&p=38401#p38401
QuoteDeveloper Bill Cesery originally planned the $12 million development as a condo building with retail space when foreclosures began to outnumber housing starts. The project was looking like it might not break ground when he crossed paths with Troy.
The 43,000-square-foot building will now house 35 units for Proton Therapy Institute patients to stay in while undergoing treatment â€" the first development dedicated to the institute’s patients.
Troy is hoping it will further the feeling of community among patients that he’s worked to create. He also gathers patients twice each week for lunch or dinner in addition to other social events so they can build camaraderie while being treated.
Construction is expected to be complete in the summer, and it will include a grocer, coffee shop, deli and pizza place.
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/03/02/story4.html?b=1235970000^1785013
they will be filled if the price is right....
This store is about to get more traffic as the Ethios convenience/gas place on the corner of 8th and Ionia is being demolished this a.m. Anyone know what the owner plans to do there?
Hasn't that place been closed for months? They dug the tanks out about a month ago but the station was empty long before that. As far as I know the store wasn't open but the crack dealers that service the day labor employees seem that way as they sat out there all day. The owner of the labor place on Ionia lets them sleep in front of their building but now they're spilling back over into the field between Walnut and Ionia.