Jacksonville's Official Federal Stimulus List
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/470121053_r5uvZ-M.jpg)
Although rail is clearly not a priority to the Peyton administration, the following projects ended up on Jacksonville's Federal Stimulus List.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/1001
i see the court house is listed there as "shelf ready" haha.
Ugh. This just makes me sick. All across America everyone has their hand out. What's next? We all just stay at home, cash our welfare checks, hop into our SUV's (that we bought at a government sponsored reduced price to help stimulate the auto industry) and ride on down to the local Ben & Jerry's for a pint of Chubby Hubby?! When is America going to wake up! When are everyday average citizens going to start taking responsibility for their own lives, their own actions and their own destinies and get off their collective asses and DO SOMETHING to make this country better instead of allowing us to further slip under the thumb of socialist rule!? I get up each morning, as most of us do, I go to work and I work hard to "bring home the bacon". I pay my taxes and I obey the law (mostly). I don't need the governement (nor do I want them) to take care of me. What I need, what we all need, is for government to get the hell out of our way and let the Free Market Economy do what it does best. *middle finger in the air to the government*
Ok, I clearly need more coffee before starting the day.
Ciao.
Despite the obviously missing mass transit improvements, there are some very important items on that list including all of the electrical grid infrastructure upgrades, water reclamation, water treatment, wastewater treatment, continued septic phaseout, all 3 airport capital projects and improvements, drainage improvements, etc.
There are some decent items on the list. However, a part of me does not wish to see the city get bailed out for bad planning (ex. the courthouse). Hopefully, the feds will take a deep look into all requests nationwide and slash the pork.
Lake, this "bailout" is nothing BUT pork. and it's going to "pork" us all right in the ass. :P
I thought this whole stimulus package was supposed to put America back to work... Not just paint the barn, rather build a new barn with a complete milk plant, thus the minions will be employed by the State Baby Milk Factory, much to the delight of the Czar.
Does Peyton and Company not realize that a bucket of paint, a drainage ditch, or another mile of pavement, do not represent long term employment for anyone. The fact is these type of projects should be completely stripped from the Great Leaders plan, which will leave Jacksonville with NOTHING!!
Talk about your red headed step child, big whoopee Comrade Peyton, well done son.
OCKLAWAHA
OCK, actually if you look at the unfortunate history of Jacksonville as a whole, another mile of pavement would take about 10 years to construct....1 mile of drainage...hmmm, another 3-5 years. Any significant road project that get's off the ground in this city takes an average of 20-30 years to complete. so, technically, it WOULD create long term jobs...other than that small technicality I agree with you 100%. :-\
QuoteWhen is America going to wake up! When are everyday average citizens going to start taking responsibility for their own lives, their own actions and their own destinies and get off their collective asses and DO SOMETHING to make this country better instead of allowing us to further slip under the thumb of socialist rule!?
Never (in our lifetime). Personal responsibility is dead. It will take a total collapse of the current system to undo what has been done. Unfortunately for you and I it decays slowly, but is slow to fail.
As more power is shifted to those who need the most from the government you can expect more to be demanded from the government. Votes are being purchased with welfare checks. It's funny how outraged everyone gets at how these corporations are spending taxpayer money, but where is the outrage at the tax payer money wasted by welfare recipients each year? Can I now badger someone after they receive their welfare check get in their 35k Lexus go to their tax payer subsidized housing then to the store where they buy milk and cheese on one tax payer provided check and cigarettes and beer on another, then go out clubbing in $200 stilettos and get STD treatment and abortion and tax payer subsidized clinic ... ETC ETC?
I'm not saying that either abuse is warranted. But one has been going on much longer with much more waste.
The people who are angered more by corprate welfare than public do so for the same reason you are more afraid of drowding in the ocean than your tub. For practical purposes corprate welfare just has more impact on our tax dollars.
146K for Cecil?
REALLY Jacksonville? I'm so glad we killed any chance of the Navy coming back.
Quote from: JeffreyS on February 09, 2009, 02:14:32 PM
The people who are angered more by corprate welfare than public do so for the same reason you are more afraid of drowding in the ocean than your tub. For practical purposes corprate welfare just has more impact on our tax dollars.
The people who are angered more by corporate welfare are people who don't realize that it's corporations that create jobs. Not only that, but they create life saving drugs, TV's, computers, and ship these goods to the store for the people with the welfare checks to buy.
Welfare is broken. I agree that it's criminal for someone to lose benefits for getting a job and trying to better themselves. it's more criminal for someone to expect benefits for nothing.
JT, you have every reason to be outraged. All of us should be. I still believe in the free market economy and it's capacity to succeed, as long as government will get the hell out of the way. I won't even start in on our own City Leaders and their complete ineptitude.
Jeffrey, have you ever looked at your paycheck and noticed just how much you pay to welfare each year? And then go to your grocery store and see what JT is talking about. Or drive out to "that side of town" and see all the Lexus, SUV's, HUmmers, etc parked in front of the section 8 housing. It's an outrage. The government limits benefits for women on welfare only up to child #12. TWELVE CHILDREN WE'RE PAYING FOR! The system has always been broken and will always be broken. It's time to get rid of the system. And that goes for all these big businesses that keep running shady deal after shady deal. If they can't run a clean business and still make money, then they don't need to be in business. Plain and simple. I don't care how many people lose their jobs because of it. When you continue to bail people out for being crooked it creates a whole generation of people (like we have right now) with no sense of responsibility and no sense of consequence to their actions. If there were no bailout, i assure you, the businesses of the world would think twice about cooking their books, or acting in some way that would jeopardize their financial future. Instead we just pump more money into bad business thinking it will change things. Bullshit. FOUL!! It simply will not work and we will be paying for it for the rest of our lives and we'll be leaving our children a mountain of debt like nothing the world has ever seen.
That's the end of my two cents for the day.
Ciao.
I don't think you are reading me right I am not being naive and saying that public welfare isn't filled with fraud. I would warn you not to be naive and think corporate welfare is all on the up and up they likewise take all they can get with the same desires as those who buy expensive cars then use food stamps. They spend millions on corporate excess then take public money. The truth is they are both red tape bloated designed to hide the truth ways to buy votes and get favors. I would be happy to try and find numbers if there is any doubt which hole in the boat is bigger.
I do not want to pay for anyone's irresponsibility but if I have to pick one the 12 kids over the Merrill CEO's million dollar office decorating.
Quote from: JeffreyS on February 09, 2009, 03:21:31 PM
I do not want to pay for anyone's irresponsibility but if I have to pick one the 12 kids over the Merrill CEO's million dollar office decorating.
Yeah, the nerve of that guy trying to put contractors to work on the at the expense of taxpayers. It's hard to tell if I'm talking about Merill's CEO or Obama! The only difference I see in the two is that the CEO's office redecorating about a year ago when the stock was hovering around 50, and PRIOR to receiving government money. What people really miss in all of this is that it's really up to the owners (shareholders) of a company to decide if a 1Mil office is excessive and apparently they were pretty happy with rewarding him at that time. Once the government came in and became one of the primary owners then we can criticize, but at that time everyone was happy.
Also, isn't Obama going to be putting a new basket ball court in at the White House? Who is going to pay for that?
The difference between the mother of 12 and the CEO is that one is a drain on the economy and resources, and one is a driver of the economy creating jobs and services.
I don't want to be boxed into arguing all common welfare recipients are good and all corporations are bad. I do not believe that. The question I was responding to was roughly why are people more concerned about giveaways to corporate giants than welfare recipients. I believe I accurately answered because of the size of the giveaways. You may not believe the size of the check matters but IMO that is why people are more concerned for one rather than the other.
"ARCHIPHREAK SAID: I pay my taxes and I obey the law (mostly). I don't need the governement (nor do I want them) to take care of me. What I need, what we all need, is for government to get the hell out of our way and let the Free Market Economy do what it does best. *middle finger in the air to the government*
Ok, I clearly need more coffee before starting the day." :(
I respect what you said archiphreak, but I don't agree with it. I don't know what type job you have, what level up the corporate or job ladder you are at, or how long you've been on your job but everyone is not as fortunate as you (Son). Lose your job and lose your ass and see what the difference is and how you perceive things. Not everyone wants to munch or grovel from Uncle Sam but if you lose your job and you're sending out 50 resumes a day, and only get one interview or a phone call for an interview a week, and then 10's upon thousands are continuing to be laid off monthly, then you do the math; right now the job market is sorely over inundated with that person, who is trying so hard to find a job, having no other choice but to go to Local, State and Federal governments for assistance until they find a job. All I can say to you ARCHIPHREAK is...don't lose your job! If you do, you may know what it's like to finally have to go to Uncle Sam or some other entity to tide you over until you do find adquate work similar to what you are now making.....AND DON'T EVER SAY NEVER! If you know someone (and you must if you speak so confidently, selfishly, and arrogantly), then my hats off to you; but don't beat people down when most are honestly trying to find work and just can't because of the inundation of the job market. Keep your silence ARCHIPHREAK and be thankful you have a job and have compassion for those who don't but are trying to keep their families together by living off of Uncle Sam until they do find another job...whatever that may be.
Heights Unknown ;)
Welfare talk... I could really carry on with this conversation... BUT... I'll just say this -
Why does our military have to take drug tests but welfare recipients do not?
Expense
can I be upset with BOTH corporate welfare and private welfare? The reason the corporate get the welfare is they made donation to the campaign and the private welfare get to expand because they vote in the government that will expand it. It makes perfect sense.
Quote from: archiphreak on February 09, 2009, 10:14:46 AM
Lake, this "bailout" is nothing BUT pork. and it's going to "pork" us all right in the ass. :P
you must be the only architect not worried about their job these days!
Quote from: JeffreyS on February 09, 2009, 02:14:32 PM
The people who are angered more by corprate welfare than public do so for the same reason you are more afraid of drowding in the ocean than your tub. For practical purposes corprate welfare just has more impact on our tax dollars.
maybe...but social welfare is far more stimulative than tax cuts....check out Mark Zandi's analysis on Moody's.com
http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/default.asp?src=economy_homepage
BTW, I do not think our mayor is communist or socialist. He is not capitalist either. he is just incompetent in general. Calling him socialist is an insult to socialist.
Gee, two pages, and less than a handful of comments about the city's stimulus list ...
stimulus list? what stimulus list?
Heights Uknown,
I love it when people disagree with me. It makes conversation so much more fun. To address your comments about me persoanlly. You don't know me so you really don't have a leg to stand on. I've been the guy that lost his job and spent more than 6 months trying to find a new one. The difference is I was smart enough to have a backup plan. I did not take unemployment or "munch" off of the government, even though it was well within my rights to do so. But that is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with the current state of the economy and the issue of government trying to stick their nose in every aspect of our economic lives. Look back (since you seem to sound as though you have seniority over me) to the late 70s when Carter completely screwed the pooch. And then look at what happened when Regan took office. We had double digit unemployment, deficits like we've never seen before and the economy was in a free fall straight to the bottom. What did he do? Did he increase government spending? Increase the national debt to send a "stimulus" check to everyone? No. He cut taxes by 2/3 for the wealthiest BUSINESSMEN/WOMEN! And what did that do? In just a few very short years the economy turned around and we had one of the longest stretches of economic growth this country has ever seen. This is not opinion. This is historical fact. So, while this discussion took a turn down the welfare highway, lets get back on track. The government can not and will not save this economy. That is simple fact. They can buy votes by sending every Tom Dick and Harry a fat check, but that's nothing more than putting lipstick on the Pig. Getting "free" money is not the answer. And it's never free. There are strings attached. What happens when the tax "rebates" run out? We're still in the shit. The banks are still not going to be lending money because people's credit is in the toilet, so no one is buying cars, no one is buying houses, no one is investing. But, if instead, we NOT spend this money, cut tax rates for the JOB CREATORS, then they would have free capital to increase their business, they can pay people more who can in turn go out and spend more, pay off debt, buy a car, buy a house AND BEGIN TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.
So, Heights Unknown. I thank you for your comments. It seems that maybe we can agree to disagree. I think that some government social programs have a necessary place in our society to help those who are genuinely less fortunate. But show me someone who is genuinely less fortunate enough to take governement assistance. Prove the stereotype wrong for me. When I was a child my mother made less than $500 a month for the two of us. This was in the early 80's. We had NO money. But she made too much to get assistance. So we made do. Don't DARE sit there and tell me that some crack head with 12 kids deserves to be taken care of, cause you ain't gettin no sympathy out of me.
And to the other comment about me not worrying about my job. Since Odingo took office, I am more worried than I was before he was elected. Because now I have to worry about ALL of my clients being strapped for cash since under this new plan only the rich will actually have to pay taxes. So NOTHING will get built in the near future. That scares me.
I think I've now become the most unpopular person on this message board. YES!! :-*
I can see this from both sides of the fence, as a Colombian Citizen, my "other" country is a blowtorch of capitalism. Free market reigns and don't EVEN think if you don't work your going to get fed. You can F'in
starve on the sidewalk and the busy shoppers will step over your body until the corpse wagon hauls you off.
But this unfettered system has created some huge social problems in Colombia. Those that do not excel in school are pretty much doomed to poverty. Poverty then equates to criminal activity, not out of anger or hate (as we see in the USA) but out of pure survival. Depending on where you were born and where you live, if you didn't have the same school opportunities you could be stuck on the farm for life. In this situation you find the early roots of drugs and Communism, or both. Drug Lords offer entire villages "Yankee Pay" and the impoverished become instant millionaires. The Communists offer bread, milk, uniforms and weapons and tell them "We will seize the power and YOU - THE PEOPLE - will lead us. It all looks very attractive on the surface.
Colombia has come to grips with most of these problems by building up a professional military. Bringing in or sending troops out to train with Israel, UK and USA. The air force is about 50/50 Israel (attack and bombers) and 50% USA with support aircraft, and helicopters. They used a carrot and stick to get at these disenfranchised people. The military now offers free education, college, skills, and just about all the perks of our own military, including home and retirement benefits. On the other hand they have attacked the revolutionary's with a vengeance, bombing them back to the stone age.
On the Civil side, the government has had to start some social service programs which include a national healthcare system with private insurance companies...a model we could look at. Healthcare is free to anyone the moment one steps off a plane, and since National ID cards and insurance are required the cost is so spread out that it is dirt cheap... Beyond that Medellin now ranks as one of the top cities in the world for medical treatments and surgery's. (Something I've experienced first hand).
Utilities, security, and transportation are also heavy priority's, with utilities billed on a sliding scale according to your income zone. For example Ortega or Ponte Vedra residents might pay as a zone 6 and NW Jax as a zone 1. So everyone pays, but according to their ability.
Ahh Yes, Utopia... "To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities." Me thinkith the sword doth cut both ways!
OCKLAWAHA
JeffreyS, I think you are right that expense is the answer, but I believe it would more than pay for itself.
Ocklawaha
QuoteOn the Civil side, the government has had to start some social service programs which include a national healthcare system with private insurance companies...a model we could look at. Healthcare is free to anyone the moment one steps off a plane, and since National ID cards and insurance are required the cost is so spread out that it is dirt cheap... Beyond that Medellin now ranks as one of the top cities in the world for medical treatments and surgery's. (Something I've experienced first hand).
Utilities, security, and transportation are also heavy priority's, with utilities billed on a sliding scale according to your income zone. For example Ortega or Ponte Vedra residents might pay as a zone 6 and NW Jax as a zone 1. So everyone pays, but according to their ability.
My life was saved in Colombia by their medical system after a car accident. We need a National Health insurance system in the US. Why should for-profit insurance companies profit from our misfortune, when they have the perverse incentive to deny us care in order to boost their profits. Talk about corporate bureaucrats, who deny and ration out care. I much rather have a national insurance system, than the erratic and random denials by private for-profit insurance companies.
Just to make it clear, even in the US 60% of all healthcare is already government paid through the VA, Medicare and Medicaid, with the remaing people at risk of bankruptcy: over 50% of all banruptcies are due to medical catastophy and most of these people actrually had medical insurance, but co-pays and denied care still killed them.
So much for this crazy mantra of "personal responsibility"
Belive me, I am fiercely independent, but I do understand that folks aren't always as fortunate as I am. There is such thing as having empathy. Har-liners don't seem to have any. And don't tell me how much volunteer work you do, or how much you contribute to charity, because that is all hit and miss to who actually benefits.
That is why we have government to protect us ( the citizens) from foreign dangers as well as from domestic ones. Those who are rail fanatics should know that without government, and yes taxes, rail cannot become an integrated functional system in the US. We'd have a patchwork of disconnected bits and pieces. See, it's government as the independent citizen overseer who can coordinate things and make things a national prority.
And puleeez stop the ranting against welfare queens who drive a Lexus. That is so passe. If you were at all informed you'd know you cannot qualify for welfare if you own a car worth more than $4,000. So much for driving that Lexus!
Of course keeping yourselves fixated on the welfare queens keeps you from seeing how corporate greed at the hands of the corporate CEO's has run this country into the ground.
Oh, and as an economist I must add another piece of info regarding the stimulus plan that should open your eyes. Like tufsu1, I like to quote from Mark Zandi per his Congressional testimony:
So, for every $1we invest in Government Spending, we will receive back:
$1.73 for Temporary Increase in Food Stamps
$1.64 for Extending Unemployment Insurance Benefits
$1.59 for Building Roads, Bridges, Schools
$1.36 for General Aid to State Governments
For every $1 we invest in the Republican Tax Cuts Plan, we will receive back:
$1.02 for Non-refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate
$1.26 for Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate
Temporary Tax Cuts
$1.29 for Payroll Tax Holiday (Jobs anyone?)
$1.03 for Across the Board Tax Cut
$0.27 for Accelerated Depreciation ($0.73 Our Loss)
Permanent Tax Cuts
$0.48 for Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch ($0.52 Our Loss)
$0.29 for Permanent Bush Income Tax Cuts for the wealthy ($0.71 Our Loss)
$0.37 for Permanent Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts for the wealthy ($0.63 Our Loss)
$0.30 for Cut in Corporate Tax Rate ($0.70 Our Loss)
and let's talk about jobs for a minute,...........90% of the jobs created by the stimulus will be in the private sector:
JOB GOALS OF THE ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE
Energy: $68.2 billion. Double our renewable energy production, renovate public buildings to make them more energy efficient.
Jobs: 500,000. Science and technology: $10 billion in investments at the National Science Foundation and the National Institute of Standards and Technology. $40 billion in investments in America’s IT network infrastructure.
Jobs: 949,000, more than half with small businesses.
Health Care: $110 billion. Training for doctors, dentists, nurses. Matching money to help states maintain Medicaid coverage for two years. Provides up to 12-month subsidized COBRA coverage for those who have lost their jobs.
Jobs: 250,000 saved or created.
Education: $126 billion. Help local schools prevent teacher layoffs. Cover Head Start costs. School modernization. Money for work-study programs. Increases the maximum Pell Grant by $500. Jobs: 250,000.
Roads and bridges: $30 billion.
Jobs: 835,000.
Public transit: There are 787 ready-to-go transit projects totaling $15.9 billion and $1.6 billion in ready-to-go state intercity passenger rail projects.
Jobs: 200,000.
Water: $16 billion. Environmental restoration. Flood control. Jobs: 375,000.
Housing: $22 billion for home loans.
Green jobs: $20 billion in tax incentives over 10 years.
Business: Allows businesses to write off 90 percent of losses incurred in 2008 and 2009 against taxes assessed over the previous five years. This would not be available to companies that have benefited under the mortgage-related Troubled Asset Relief Program.
Tax cuts: $500 per worker filing under $100,000 in adjusted gross income, $1,000 per couple under $200,000. Provides $2,500 tax credit to families with student in college and $7,500 credit to first-time homebuyers.
AGAIN, and I keep asking this: Why no rail for Florida in the stimulus?
I do not know any local government who doesn't want "free" federal gocernment money to create local jobs. You?
Oklawa, how come you are a Colombian citizen? Are you keeping your citizenship for the free healthcare?
Faye... Thanks for posting. By adding the numbers you posted this accounts for about half of the trillion proposed bailout money. Lets assume they fit the Presidents definition of stimulus. What of the other half a trillion? We should be concerned about the numbers being tossed about.
There are many good arguments for nationalized health care... but there are also unintended consequenses. Ask the 75 year old British man who cannot get a new heart valve because he is too old. How about a government database containing all of your health records? Some here are against video cameras downtown because it is an invasion of privacy... would you be content with the Feds keeping your medical records?
Quote from: FayeforCure on February 10, 2009, 02:53:12 PM
OcklawahaQuoteOn the Civil side, the government has had to start some social service programs which include a national healthcare system with private insurance companies...a model we could look at. Healthcare is free to anyone the moment one steps off a plane, and since National ID cards and insurance are required the cost is so spread out that it is dirt cheap... Beyond that Medellin now ranks as one of the top cities in the world for medical treatments and surgery's. (Something I've experienced first hand).
Utilities, security, and transportation are also heavy priority's, with utilities billed on a sliding scale according to your income zone. For example Ortega or Ponte Vedra residents might pay as a zone 6 and NW Jax as a zone 1. So everyone pays, but according to their ability.
Oklawa, how come you are a Colombian citizen? Are you keeping your citizenship for the free healthcare?
Faye,
1. My wife is realated to everyone Who is Who in Colombia.
2. She was born there, equal to a princess
3. We went to live there and I was accepted by the people because I was ONE OF THEM not some YANKEE INVADER far above them.
4. I LOVE COLOMBIA as much as I love my own Confederate Roots.
5. I would gladly give my life to defend Colombia.
6. So I'm in, besides I live there about 1/2 the time...
7 Cool? or What? OCKLAWAHA
Extremes and Excesses will abound in whatever system we choose, whatever "thing" we discuss. Let me just say this: I hope to God that Obama's plan succeeds. I hope he does manage to turn around the economy and save (not create) 4 million jobs. Do I think it will happen, realistically? NO. I think this bill is doomed to fail. The interest alone from this bill will bury our children in debt long after we're gone. There are many good things about this bill. Unfortunately the good things account for less than half of the total spending. Let's hope the Senate/House Negotiations can iron out all the bullshit that has been thrown in and get down to a bill that will actually help our country.
BridgeTroll, the number cannot be added based on the list, since the taxcuts for individiuals and businesses aren't quantified in the list.
Since this is the House version, I can tell you that those tax cuts do make up 33% of the stimulus, whereas the Senate version has a whopping 42% in the form of tax cuts, which is disastrous for trying to revive our economy.
Since our tax rates are already one of the lowest in the world, and knowing that additional tax cuts have very little stimulative effect ( see Mark Zandi's chart), it is foolish to try to fix the economy with what got us into this mess in the first place.
Remember taxes were higher under Clinton and our economy prospered.
The CEO of Netflix, Reed Hastings, wants higher taxes for himself.
http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2009/02/09/reed-hastings-please-tax-me-more.aspx
That is walking the talk of "Country First" rather than misdirected " Country Club First"
What I meant was the definition of "stimulus" changed the minute congress was directed to create a bill. The president wanted infrastructure... highways, bridges, rail, sewer, water, power etc... He did not get very much of that. The rest... looks to be simply government spending on pet projects. I think the president and the country squandered an opportunity.
Mankind will neither spend himself rich, or drink himself dry.... (Ben Franklin)
God knows I've tried to do the Former and the Later, though the later was much more fun!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 10, 2009, 03:38:41 PM
What I meant was the definition of "stimulus" changed the minute congress was directed to create a bill. The president wanted infrastructure... highways, bridges, rail, sewer, water, power etc... He did not get very much of that. The rest... looks to be simply government spending on pet projects. I think the president and the country squandered an opportunity.
While I fully agree that not nearly enough is being spent on transit, and again "why no rail for Florida?," I do not consider helping American Families wheather this recession, pet projects. Neither do I consider investment in renewable energy sources frivolous spending.
What might be frivolous is the Heavy Republican emphasis on tax cuts, that will not help revive the economy and will leave future generations to pay for "give-aways," that will do practically nothing to restore our economy.
The estimate is that just 2% of the stimulous consists of what one might call pet projects compared to 42% of the stimulus going to ineffective tax cuts.
The tax cuts issue is just being used for its emotional "soundbite" value, without actually making any economic sense.
Disclaimer: middle class tax cuts do make sense, because the middle class will use the money for consumption whereas the rich will keep hoarding it. The marginal consumption rate ( consumer demand) of the rich is practically zero, as they are already able to do whatever consumption they want, and do not need the tax cut to be able to consume more ( generate more consumer demand). Consumer demand drives 70% of our economy, so boosting consumer demand will help us get out of this recession.
Actually since nobody here has been able to answer the question why there isn't any rail funding requested in the stimulus for Florida, I am going to pose the question to:
Florida PIRG: http://www.floridapirg.org/
PIRG (Public Interest Research Group ) is an advocate for the public interest. When consumers are cheated, or the voices of ordinary citizens are drowned out by special interest lobbyists, U.S. PIRG speaks up and takes action. We uncover threats to public health and well-being and fight to end them, using the time-tested tools of investigative research, media exposés, grassroots organizing, advocacy and litigation. U.S. PIRG's mission is to deliver persistent, result-oriented public interest activism that protects our health, encourages a fair, sustainable economy, and fosters responsive, democratic government".
Everyone is pointing fingers at one another, to the point where Robert Mann is asked to produce a plan for John Mica. Aren't there enough people in government to come up with a rail plan? What about among John Mica's own staff.........?
It would seem to me that the powers that be, all the way to the top, do not want rail for Florida no matter how many jobs might be created. Maybe it's part of the YOYO economic philosophy: the You're on Your Own philisophy that many here subscribe to also.
As you can see the "free market forces" will not produce rail. But until we let go of the "get government out of our way" mentality, instead of insisting on a "functional and effective" government, we will never get rail.
Several projects have been dropped....
What's on the local stimulus-plan road work listQuoteSeveral major projects did not make the cut because they cost too much. They included $12 million for building ramps at the intersection of Interstate 95 and Butler Boulevard, $10 million for intersection improvements at Beach Boulevard and University Boulevard and $54 million for a new transportation center for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.
QuoteREADY TO ROLL
Thirteen projects approved by the Transportation Planning Organization on Thursday. They are all “shovel ready†and could begin within 90-120 days after money is received:
CLAY COUNTY
►Operational improvements at Peoria Road from County Road 224 to Moody Road: $1.55 million
► Construct a dedicated right turn lane at Kingsley Avenue: $420,000
► Resurface Knight Boxx Road from Blanding Boulevard to County Road 220: $480,000
DUVAL COUNTY
► Resurface and modify the intersections at Alta Drive and New Berlin Road from Zoo Parkway to Florida 9A: $7.5 million
► Build drainage improvements, safety upgrades, signal system upgrades and resurface Ninth Street from Beach Boulevard to Butler Boulevard in Jacksonville Beach: $5 million
► Add lanes and reconstruct Collins Road: $4.2 million
► Widen Fort Caroline Road from Caroline Vale Boulevard to Merrill Road: $7.4 million
NASSAU COUNTY
► Resurface Eight Street from Atlantic Avenue to the Port of Fernandina: $115,000
► Resurface Fourteenth Street from Pogy Place to Atlantic Avenue: $660,000
ST. JOHNS COUNTY
► Ramp improvements at the intersection of Interstate 95 and Florida 207: $2.2 million
► Signal system upgrade at County Road 210 and Race Track Road: $1.3 million
► Make sidewalk improvements in St. Johns County: $875,000
► Resurface West King Street/Florida 214 from County Road 13 to U.S. 1: $2.2 million
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-02-12/story/whats_on_the_local_stimulus_plan_road_work_list
well at least 9B didn't make it....I was really worried about that!
I believe the Collins Road project is already underway. I wonder if this is for the stretch between Blanding and Roosevelt?
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 12, 2009, 10:27:01 PM
well at least 9B didn't make it....I was really worried about that!
Don't know how many of y'all know this, but recent digging in the DOT files brought some new light on the 9-B idea, at least between I-95 and I-295E. Since the area of I-95 / US 1 / Baymeadows / I-295, is a growing retail and housing market, the condept of 9-B is to create a short truck reliever from JaxPort South to I-95. The later part will create a bypass of the urbanized area for trucks moving from ports to the South toward the CSX or NS intermodal yards which are out in the Westlake Area. In this respect it all makes complete sense. I know, shock of shocks, the old railroad guy rather supports this concept. OCKLAWAHA
QuoteSeveral major projects did not make the cut because they cost too much. They included $12 million for building ramps at the intersection of Interstate 95 and Butler Boulevard, $10 million for intersection improvements at Beach Boulevard and University Boulevard and $54 million for a new transportation center for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.
But of course darling, let's cut the ones that make the most sense! Take all of the projects on the Duval County approved list and tell me how many DIRECT employees it will represent in 5 years. ZERO!
Clean up the mess at JTB and 95 and we'll probably get another office or two out of the deal.
Clean up Beach and University (one of the worst in the City) and we'll probably see complete redevlopment of the massive old strip centers located all around it.
Build a smart transportation center at JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL and it will employ 200 people in 5 years, more in 10 and lead the South in surface Transportation jobs in 20. YES, IT IS THAT GOOD.OCKLAWAHA
The Jax Terminal would have been a good project for the list, but looking at the numbers in the article, it cost $54 million, and the TPO appeared to be working with $24 - $30 million for the entire four-county area.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 13, 2009, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 12, 2009, 10:27:01 PM
well at least 9B didn't make it....I was really worried about that!
Don't know how many of y'all know this, but recent digging in the DOT files brought some new light on the 9-B idea, at least between I-95 and I-295E. Since the area of I-95 / US 1 / Baymeadows / I-295, is a growing retail and housing market, the condept of 9-B is to create a short truck reliever from JaxPort South to I-95. The later part will create a bypass of the urbanized area for trucks moving from ports to the South toward the CSX or NS intermodal yards which are out in the Westlake Area. In this respect it all makes complete sense. I know, shock of shocks, the old railroad guy rather supports this concept.
OCKLAWAHA
That's a lot of money for a short truck reliever, especially one that won't reduce traffic since it opens up more land for commercial development. In the grand scheme of things, if you're working with limited funds, its probably better to spend initial money elsewhere (ex. JTB & I-95 or Beach & University).
The most obvious items absent relate to education. Nothing for our public schools, FCCJ, or UNF. I thought Obama said education was a stimulus priority. Are they submitting separate lists?
I didn't see any water projects providing for distribution of retreated water (not to be confused with drinking water as already provided for). There was one for a reclamation plant but that doesn't appear to address distribution which I am under the impression is the major stumbling block to water conservation in Jax.
How about renovating public buildings to conserve energy? That was another stimulus goal supposedly.
Of course, mass transit appears to be completely bypassed as well. And funding for an intelligent traffic system?
And no money for park improvements that we keep hearing need funding.
How about to hire more librarians to re-extend limited library hours? Money to hire people to work with kids in after school and summer programs?
I can think of lots of things to put people to work right away and the courthouse is not one of them. It's outrageous this is the second largest item on the list!
The people who are angered more by corporate welfare are people who don't realize that it's corporations that create jobs. Not only that, but they create life saving drugs, TV's, computers, and ship these goods to the store for the people with the welfare checks to buy.
Corporations dont create those priceless products that jt mentioned, people that work for corporations do. That being said, life in our modern corporate world is essential and great. But i would make the point that a corporation is not a living person, but a legal entity , with but a single purpose to make as much capital as possible by investing as little as possible. As naum chomsky states, if a corporation was a real human, he/she would be declared insane as a sociopath. Accordingly, regulation is essential to maintain a proper behavior in the real world, as in our past with trust busting (rockefeller monopoly) ect. The actions by no less that sec. henry paulson, in the past year, he being the strongest advocate of free market practice, vindicates such regulation.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 10, 2009, 03:08:04 PM
There are many good arguments for nationalized health care... but there are also unintended consequenses. Ask the 75 year old British man who cannot get a new heart valve because he is too old. How about a government database containing all of your health records? Some here are against video cameras downtown because it is an invasion of privacy... would you be content with the Feds keeping your medical records?
Actually, I worry about private insurance keeping my medical records and using its info. to deny me coverage.
Luckily I have NO medical record, because I am one of the 48 million uninsured AMERICANS. I was in a catch 22,..... didn't want to ever see a doctor for fear of even creating a medical record. Now, because I haven't seen a doctor in over a decade, and have "no medical record" I can qualify for a low rate for catastrophic insurance only, which will go into effect in May.
Even so, there is a good chance that what I'm getting will turn out to be "junk" insurance, meaning that if I end up being diagnosed with anything that I need medical care for,.......they might start digging and find I had an ear infection when I was say 7 years old. They then might tell me they are going to rescind my health insurance to keep themselves from paying for the medical condition that I might encounter in the future. They might claim that earache suddenly is a pre-existing condition that disqualifies me from their insurance, RETRO-ACTIVELY!
That practice of rescission is probably something you've never heard about, because you've probably never researched the healthcare issue like I have as a healthcare activist.
Do you understand that by denying you care, for-profit insurance companies can increase their profits? Do you see the conflict of interest in this?
And Puleeeez, drop the "old British man who cannot get a heart valve" talking point already. It's the tried and failed politics of fear-mongering based on a "made-up" anecdotal story. If it happened at all, and I bet you don't know the name of that man or have any other sort of proof that it is a real story, it may be the exception rather than the rule.
I can give you the example of my dad, who lives in Europe, and has stage IV kidney cancer. Based on your talking points you'd probably say that at 78, he would not get the latest expensive FDA approved medication "because he was too old."
You would be wrong,...... he has been receiving $7,000 per month state of the art medication for the past 1 1/2 years. Medication that was just approved by the FDA in 2006. He gets it free of charge, no co-pay, no-deductible.
And don't tell me, oh but they pay very high taxes over there,.........because for what we spend in the ER, the most expensive care that we DO have universal access to, we can go a long way to providing REAL universal healthcare that could keep people out of the ER. I will get you that study with dollar amounts if you want.
In closing I'd like to let all those who are into "tax-cuts" only as a stimulus know, that 25% of our economy is healthcare and education related, so to shore up those industries, as we are bailing out banks, makes good economic sense.
Today is the HUGE Education rally in Tallahassee.
More than 500,000 teachers nationwide stood to lose their jobs without the federal stimulus monies rescuing the states.
Please examine everything you are told and ask for reliable proof, before using the talking points that are so easily repeated.
I know most of us do not have the time to do this ourselves, so check with REAL grassroots orgs, rather than industry paid astro-turf orgs.
There is a real battle going on out there with mis-information maskerading as "truth," so beware. Let me just add, that is also the reason that a "free-market" system often isn't really, and cannot really be a "free-market" system. The caveat is that for a "free-market" system to really be "competitive," we need to have perfect information as consumers to base our decisions on. Not only, is there no reliable source of perfect information ( a lot of dis-information, or ad driven info goes around), but there also is a prohibitive high expense in obtaining "perfect info," both in terms of time for the individual as well as expense.
I know all this will turn some of you preconceived concepts upside down, but mull it over and let me know if you have any questions about any of what I wrote. The beauty of debate is being open to new info., if it makes sense.
Hope that helps.
Faye
Stimulus is all about spending on construction, and construction projects put people to work. We need these projects for our infrastructure and now is a better time to do it, before a bridge or road collapses. Simple view, but effective.