Amtrak Pacific Surfliner Corridor Service
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/467547083_Tkz8B-M.jpg)
The Pacific Surfliner is a 350-mile Amtrak corridor passenger service serving Southern California between San Diego and San Luis Obispo. With 2.89 million passengers in fiscal year 2008, this is Amtrak's most heavily traveled service outside of the Northeast Corridor, covering 59.1% of its operating expenses through ticket sales. The Pacific Surfliner rail service is an example of what Metro Jacksonville believes Amtrak can bring to Jacksonville and the State of Florida.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/1004
That looks wonderful. I think you've got me California dreamin.
SurfLiner... great name... 8)
This looks awesome. I imagine something in Florida running from Miami to Jacksonville with stops in Fort Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Cape Canaveral, Daytona and St Augustine.
What would happen if the citizens of Jacksonville took the city officials out of the mix and formed a group to lobby directly with the rail companies to begin the process of a functioning mass transit system in our city? Just a thought.
The lack of a Florida corridor service really falls on the state (FDOT). Amtrak has publicly stated they want to do this and that they are ready with their portion of the funding. The state now needs to agree to pay a portion.
It would be nice if city officials would start lobbying the state to make a move.
Archiphreak is on to something. If our officials won't lobby for it, maybe some sort of local citizens group should lobby with other cities and groups in the state to get something running.
Lake would you like to put together the basic petition that could be endorsed by organizations, officials, businesses and individuals. We would then have to start selling it to those entities before we could take it to the state. The proposal would probably need it's own web page and viral campaign. Would this be something that compliments Orlando's commuter rail or competes with it?
Thanks for this article. Mrs. and I are going out to CA for a wedding in the fall and afterward will need to get from San Jose to Santa Barbara. I'm now pushing this instead of renting a car and driving down.
EDIT: Oops- It's not the same train. It's more correct to say the article reminded me to research rail options. ;D
Quote from: JeffreyS on February 06, 2009, 11:27:10 AM
Would this be something that compliments Orlando's commuter rail or competes with it?
This is something that would complement the Orlando commuter rail system. Think of it as an express version of commuter rail that links major metropolitan areas together. For example, if a corridor service ran from Jax to Miami, one could catch the train in St. Augustine and ride directly to downtown without stopping. If we had a commuter rail line on the same tracks, one could use the local commuter rail train for stops in between downtown and St. Augustine. The benefit this brings for local commuter rail is it would help pay for the track upgrades that will also be needed for commuter rail, which reduces the overall cost of rail locally.
QuoteLake would you like to put together the basic petition that could be endorsed by organizations, officials, businesses and individuals. We would then have to start selling it to those entities before we could take it to the state. The proposal would probably need it's own web page and viral campaign.
This sounds perfect for the Jacksonville Transit site (Ock) to take on with Metro Jacksonville playing a major support role to get the word out.
Or you could have a Florida Statewide rail system with the East Coast (Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Fort Walton Beach, Cape Canaveral, Daytona Beach, St. Augustine, and Jacksonville), Northern Florida running from Jacksonville to Pensacola (in between cities would have to be determine because of the smaller size of cities in between Jax and Pen), West Coast (Starting in Orlando, Lakeland, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Bradenton, Sarasota, Venice, North Port, Port Charlotte, Punta Gorda, Fort Myers, and Naples).
Why not go for the gusto?
You could also consider a Central State Line running from an East Coast Florida City through to Starke, Orlando, and westward to Tampa. This may not be as feasible as the other lines and would have to be studied much more indepth for feasibility and passenger demand.
Just a thought. ;)
Heights Unknown
[This sounds perfect for the Jacksonville Transit site (Ock) to take on with Metro Jacksonville playing a major support role to get the word out.
[/quote]
To get the word out and pushing it on through to fruition and reality.
Heights Unknown
I'm your Huckleberry!
Just a note, taking this to the railroads as a proposal, would be the LAST place one would want to go. We go to the State, Federal and Local governments and they can TELL the railroads how the cow will eat the cabbage. I can think of only a handful of railroads on earth that would welcome passenger trains, and every one of them is in someones spare bedroom, attic, basement or garage.
The ready made corridors are in place and a future comprehensive system is at least 75% intact. They are:
Jacksonville - Lake City - Tallahassee - Pensacola - (and west)
Jacksonville - Waldo - Ocala - Wildwood - Lakeland - Tampa
Jacksonville - Palatka - Deland - Orlando - Auburndale - Lakeland - Tampa
Jacksonville - St. Augustine - Daytona Beach - Melbourne - Ft. Pierce - West Palm Beach - Miami
(Jacksonville/Orlando) Auburndale - Winter Haven - Sebring - West Palm Beach - Miami
Lakeland - Ft. Myers - Naples
Tampa - Clearwater - St. Petersburg
Tampa - Sarasota - Venice
The missing segments are GAINESVILLE (which has right of way for several old lines) at the end of a branch from Starke.
Also:
Jacksonville - Starke - Alachua - Dunnellon - (Inverness-Brooksville taken out) Brooksville - Tampa
Beyond the state lines (every possible route passes through Jacksonville), in conjunction with Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee etc. we could create a host of new (old) routes to EVERYWHERE SOUTH, Macon, Atlanta, Montgomery, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Nashville, not to mention Cleveland, Cincinnati, Louisville, St. Louis, Chicago, Memphis, Kansas City, New Orleans, Charlotte... ALL DIRECT.
I think we need a map showing routes and frequencys, with regular fast Surfliner or Amtrak type trains. Then get the package on the ballot and force the issue statewide... Start in Jacksonville - as you can see from the routes, we are the hub.
OCKLAWAHA
Hub = jobs. If it can be proven that tons of jobs can be stimulated locally, it will make a fight for something like this stronger.
OK here is my attempt at a simple verbiage to collect signatures for a Ballot initiative.
QuoteThe Florida/ Amtrak partnership ballot initiative.
As Amtrak has received 15 billion dollars approved funding and requested to partner with Florida to provide expanded premium statewide passenger rail services. These services include travel and commuter transit. We propose a ballot initiative to establish Florida’s support for Amtrak’s expansion throughout the state.
The benefits to Florida include:
•Transit options for our residents, companies and those moving to our state
• Mass Transit that can generate enough revenue to cover O & M expenses
• Enhancement of our tourist industry
• Relief for our over crowded highways
• Rail improvements for our existing freight and transit capacity
• Needed jobs providing needed services
• Transit oriented development for our strained real estate market
• Increase our ability to provide for our growing state population
Florida should take advantage of Amtrak’s willingness to invest in our state. This initiative will require the state to partner in the creation and renovation of transit stations in our metro areas, tourist sites, seaports, universities, hospitals, airports and business centers where rail way are already in place. This opportunity to fast track transit services in our state with Amtrak’s money this should not be passed on.
We are asking you, businesses, organizations and political leaders to sign our petition to have the Florida/ Amtrak Partnership to be placed on the next state ballot.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 06, 2009, 10:01:47 PM
Hub = jobs. If it can be proven that tons of jobs can be stimulated locally, it will make a fight for something like this stronger.
Absolutely, especially right now.
Do you think any of the local rail companies would get behind it?
Quote from: 9a is my backyard on February 07, 2009, 12:39:20 PM
Absolutely, especially right now.
Do you think any of the local rail companies would get behind it?
you'd have a better chance making ice cubes in Hell. Y'all have got to understand that over the years the railroads lost BILLIONS on passenger trains. Once the door cracked so they could get out of that business, it turned into stampede. Amtrak is all that is left and they operate only about 1/4 the track miles that the private companies did the day before Amtrak took over. 8 trains a day was suddenly 1 train a day, and in many towns, cities even entire states, the trains just vanished.
Since freight makes big bucks and passenger trains are a liability and get in the way of freight, the railroads are less then thrilled to be forced to operate Amtrak trains. You are NOT going to get the railroads on this band wagon.
The recent additions have been okayed by the railroads because they were in such a capacity bind during the recent building boom. Trains were sometimes 24 hours late. So when a state or city comes around (such as the Orlando Deal) the railroad is quick to sell the track, lease back the rights to operate the freights, conditional that the state "DOUBLE TRACK" the entire line (or some other high volume $$ demand). This is the only carrot we have for commuter rail or for corridor service. OCKLAWAHA
Long time lurker, first time poster - but I'm a BnB (born n bred) Jacksonvillian and love the city.
However, I now live in Southern California and wanted to comment on this post (and there's more to come on others now that I'm registered!).
The Pacific Surfliner seems great, and sounds romantic. But, the reality is that not many people use it. Oh it would be nice to hope the train for a jaunt up to San Luis Obisbo, or down to San Diego, but really, not many people (I would say nobody but that sounds mean) do. Why? Because in our hyper-accelerated lives, we just don't have time to spend 8 hours on a train when a 1 hour flight will do the same. Most vacations are 2-3 days max. Spending nearly a full day traveling each way just doesn't cut it. Sure the journey becomes part of the experience, and for some this is more important than others, but given the choice, most would rather spend time on the beach, strolling the San Luis farmer's market, or wandering the streets of San Francisco than hanging out on a train.
I love the ideas put forth on this site, and in a perfect world train travel would be an excellent alternate option to offer, but the demand just isn't there given the costs involved in running (much less setting one up) an operation.
During Train Day, we went downtown to Union Station and toured the trains. They're quite nice and would be a wonderful treat, but even the tickets were expensive compared to a $75/ow flight to San Fran, or jumping in your car to San Diego (because you'll likely need a car when you get there or will spend a fortune in cabs).
So, great idea...not so sure it's grounded in the real world.
Thanks for the opportunity...and for all the hard work everyone put into the site!
Waldorf
Welcome Waldorf... you make some very good points. There is no doubt that time spent travelling and cost are in the favor of air travel for many people.
It really depends on how you look at it. The Pacific Surfliner carried 2.89 million passengers last year. That's pretty impressive. Also, from looking at the route and communities it serves, one would guest most aren't using it to travel from one end to the other. For example, it would not make sense to fly from Oceanside to Santa Ana or Glendale to Irvine. Locally, it would not make sense to fly from Jacksonville to St. Augustine or Palm Coast. However, a rail connection between Jacksonville and Miami would provide direct service to all of the coastal communities in between, meaning one could us it to move between Titusville and Daytona. This is an area where rail remains superior.
We come from a generation of people with a habit of non-stop flights or even drives to anyplace else. So much so that the Billions and Billions spent on airline and interstates every year have created their own nightmares.
Fact is, in stage lengths of 300 miles or less, trains still rule the commercial travel industry... Where they are provided. Sadly Amtrak has never had the funds to provide a "service" rather then simply a train per route.
Imagine, one flight a day to Atlanta... NO OTHER CHOICE... Amtrak doesn't even have ONE.
There is also an element of travel that cannot be enjoyed on a plane. Seeing America up close and personal.
Likewise, trains will attract many more long distance travelers then an equal bus will. Trailways once had the articulated GOLDEN EAGLES and these coaches had a hostess, kitchen, table service, extra leg room, restrooms etc... Going head to head with SANTA FE's passenger trains nearly killed the company.
As speeds increase the stage lengths of rail commands more miles, witness the failure of several short haul airlines in Europe. In fact our first case stateside was this year when the shuttle pulled out of Harrisburg-NYC as it could NOT compete with the center city - center city times of the fast trains.
We don't need HIGH SPEED RAIL in Florida, all we need is higher speed rail and smarter more frequent rail.
Florida could support a mostly 79 mph system today, we could get rid of more then 1/2 of the slow speed zones with overpasses and fencing. All of this without having to touch the track. Frankly I have knowledge of a train reaching 120 MPH North of Jacksonville, in FLORIDA. We COULD DO THIS NOW, we don't have to wait for some magic spell and $60 Billion Dollars.
OCKLAWAHA
I previously posted about the benefits of an interstate link from Jax-Orange Park to Gainesville-Tampa.
Likewise, if we had a Jax Airport-Jax Downtown-Orange Park/Jax NAS-Gainesville train, it would share similar benefits. A large number of flyers to/from Gainesville come through JIA. Shands Gainesville patients and their famililies and UF profs, students, and sports fans commute from Jax homes. UF doctors commute to/from Shands Jax. UF students and Gainesville residents commute to Jax for events and beaches. A lot more would occur between Jax-Gainesville if the cities had stronger links than currently exist. Clay County also might benefit from the inter-connecting transportation link they so desperately seek.
Just this "little" rail line could do a lot for both ends. Jax has a major asset in being near a major research university at UF and has not fully exploited it.
Quote from: stjr on February 13, 2009, 08:02:52 PM
Jax has a major asset in being near a major research university at UF and has not fully exploited it.
Amen, brother. Actually, you could put a lot of different phrases between "asset" and "and"...
Quote from: archiphreak on February 06, 2009, 09:25:47 AM
What would happen if the citizens of Jacksonville took the city officials out of the mix and formed a group to lobby directly with the rail companies to begin the process of a functioning mass transit system in our city? Just a thought.
Best idea I've heard in a while.