Elements of Urbanism: Orlando
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453952527_qmJTP-M.jpg)
A brief tour around the urban core of a city that is often overshadowed by its notorious theme parks: Orlando.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/986
Wow, when you put it like that, Orlando looks pretty cool. I won't hate on O-town anymore. That SODO project is awesome! Seems the the warehouse district in Springfield could benefit from something like this.
Nice thread. I never really cared for the mouse though, but very nice.
Our historic districts could learn a lot by taking a look at Thornton Park's newer development. The city of Orlando has embraced current design trends and mixed architectural styles which has made that area a much more appealing living environment for people normally attracted to suburban areas. Jacksonville could really benefit by reviving our older urban suburbs in a similar way. People are attracted to this sort of "newness" regardless of whether or not they like the style of Architecture.
Very cool urban Publix... 8)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453953141_EkwrF-M.jpg)
Urban infill obstacles:
Tampa: Interstate 4 forms a pretty solid barrier between Downtown and Parramore.
Jacksonville: State & Union Streets cut off Downtown Jacksonville from Springfield.
Tampa...Orlando.
Samething.
Nice catch. I used the templete from the Tampa article to set up this one. It looks like we missed that one.
Springfield is definitely comparable to the Thornton Park area. The main difference between the two is that Orlando recognized the value of Lake Eola and its surrounding parks as a great urban asset that connects rather than separates the community from the CBD. They keep it maintained, clean and do not tolerate vagrancy.
Springfield would still be separated from downtown by State/Union (which could be solved by intelligent or elevated pedestrian-ways) and the Park View Inn blight that needs to come down, but COJ needs to look hard at the Klutho Park system and what an asset it could be to the entire city.
In addition, one of the most visually appealing areas of urban Orlando is the little strip of clubs that is a pedestrian-only walkway. No cars allowed. For some reason, local planners, retailers and residents don't think this could work in Jacksonville ("cars on the street add to urban vibrancy," seems to be the common thinking). But perhaps in a small area, this should be reconsidered.
I remember when Orlando was a sleepy town of well under 100,000 people; Wow, how far it has come and it is now a burgeoning metropolis. Infill, density, fullness downtown, all of what Jacksonville needs but Orlando now has. Pretty impressive photos. I guess downtown has a height limit on the skyscrapers; their tallest, which I think is 440 feet, is the limit, otherwise, Orlando would probably look like Tampa.
I'm jealous of Orlando for Jacksonville.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2009, 09:29:01 AM
Nice catch. I used the templete from the Tampa article to set up this one. It looks like we missed that one.
I thought maybe it was a subconscious jab at Orlando. hehee.
I kid I kid, Out of the two I prefer Orlando as far as urban elements go. Tampa's good for it's gulf coast beaches.
Great article. The last two times I've been to Orlando I've stayed in Winter Park and pretty much rode a bike a everywhere so I didn't see all the parts of the city, but you get a much better perspective of a city and I feel these photos come really close to capturing that.
Its seems like there are some great developments there embracing and promoting walkability. That Publix made me think of The Fountainhead.
Jacksonville has fallen asleep at the wheel.
Quote from: zoo on January 15, 2009, 09:40:54 AMIn addition, one of the most visually appealing areas of urban Orlando is the little strip of clubs that is a pedestrian-only walkway. No cars allowed. For some reason, local planners, retailers and residents don't think this could work in Jacksonville ("cars on the street add to urban vibrancy," seems to be the common thinking). But perhaps in a small area, this should be reconsidered.
American history has shown that full blown urban pedestrian malls struggle in cities that don't have the dense immediate residential population to support them. I would not classify Wall Street as a full blown pedestrian mall. Its a one block pedestrian alley with vehicular access on both ends.
I also believe it was originally developed by a single developer. You could say its a smaller version of the pedestrian walk at the Landing with the Toy Factory, Benny's, Hooters, Twisted Martini, etc.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8005-p1160946.JPG)
The City of Orlando gave Publix incentive money to open that Lake Eola store.
QuoteThe Economic Development Incentive Agreement dated February 15, 2005 (Agreement) provides for certain City and CRA incentives for the redevelopment project south of Lake Eola across from the Waverly Condominiums as a mixed-use residential, office and retail development with a full-service Publix grocery store.
The incentives consist of the following:
1. Up to $350,000 of permit and related fee credits
2.$2,000,000 in Parking Construction Funds to fund a portion of the cost of the parking facility, to be repaid to the City, with interest, through the levy and collection of a Special Assessment and lien on the property.
3. a Tax Increment Recapture of 35% of the tax increment revenue directly attributable to the project for a period of 8 years.
4. a $1,000,000 Grocery Incentive to be paid in four (4) equal installments of $250,000 at commencement, 50% completion, C.O. issuance, and 1 year after opening.
The Agreement provides that the cumulative amount of the incentives shall not exceed $3,700,000 (Maximum Incentive Amount). It further provides that the Tax Increment Recapture will be applied toward the repayment of the Special Assessment. Due to the limits of the Maximum Incentive Amount, the Tax Increment Recapture available to the Owner may not be sufficient to repay the Special Assessment, thereby increasing the Project costs and jeopardizing the Grocery portion of the Project. In order to insure the feasibility and sustainability of a downtown full-service grocery within the Project, the City has agreed to remove the Maximum Incentive Amount and modify the Special Assessment repayment schedule so that the Tax Increment Recapture can be used to repay the Special Assessment without additional costs to the Project. The removal of the Maximum Incentive Amount will allow the Project to realize the full benefit of the Tax Increment Recapture as a result of the increased assessed property value realized from the redevelopment of the property. In exchange for the removal of the Maximum Incentive Amount and modification of the Special Assessment repayment schedule, the Owner has agreed to the imposition of a requirement that the Owner repay the Grocery Incentive in the event that the Grocery Store is not open and operational for a minimum period of seven (7) years.
http://edocs.ci.orlando.fl.us/asv/paperlessagenda.nsf/b70fccc1d34ca632852573f50052b3a0/ae0703cf3e713598852571620075c087?OpenDocument
Quote from: heights unknown on January 15, 2009, 09:41:39 AM
I remember when Orlando was a sleepy town of well under 100,000 people; Wow, how far it has come and it is now a burgeoning metropolis. Infill, density, fullness downtown, all of what Jacksonville needs but Orlando now has. Pretty impressive photos. I guess downtown has a height limit on the skyscrapers; their tallest, which I think is 440 feet, is the limit, otherwise, Orlando would probably look like Tampa.
I'm jealous of Orlando for Jacksonville.
Heights Unknown
Both downtowns have had a ton of infill development over the last decade or so. However, Orlando's newer development tends to cluster around and complement its neighbors. Jax's has not. This may have a lot to do with Orlando abiding by a detailed master plan calling for complementing activities to take place in a compact setting. The result is synergy being quickly created.
To Jax's credit, outside of Downtown and the Lake Eola area, urban Orlando feels more like a small suburban town than it does a city. There are nice older neighborhoods but nothing with the size, density or architectural diversity that you'll find in an area like Riverside/Avondale or Springfield. Even after decades of poor planning, Jax's bones are still here. We just need to do a better job of connecting our assets together with proper infill.
Thanks Lake for expounding on my jealous concerns regarding Orlando's sucess and prosperity versus Jax's appearance of "falling asleep at the wheel" as someone stated. Been a while since I've been to Orlando, but you're probably right about the rest of Orlando (sleep village scenario) versus it's downtown's success, but still, it appears their downtown has grown and filled out and filled in in leaps and bounds over Jax.
Heights Unknown
I am always interested when I see a Publix like the one in Lake Eola. I wonder if a design like that was ever considered when the new Publix was built in Riverside, Tinsletown or the SJTC?
(snort)
My money's on 'no'.
I figured. It was more of a rhetorical question.
Jax is just about as architecturally conservative as it comes. The delayed San Marco publix will be just as urban as Orlando's. However, the architectural style will reflect the historic neighborhood it will serve.
East San Marco
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/san_marco_render/sanmarco_presentation18.jpg)
Oh I'm of the same opinion regarding architectural style, Lake. And I will gladly cheer when an 'urban' Publix is built - in the forthcoming East San Marco or elsewhere.
I'll just reserve belief until I see it actually happen. Between typical poor planning and a sour economy and market, I wonder if it will ever come.
(How awesome would that downtown Winn-Dixie be, if it had a good 4-9 stories of residential above it, eh? Better yet, how great would my beloved SJTC have been if it had been built in even a slightly more vertical fashion?)
Nice pictures, however the writer needs work. The article is awkward to read, and the flow is interrupted by mangled sentence structure, and incorrect word choice.
Is Winn Dixie no longer a fortune 500?
JeffreyS, Winn-Dixie is a Fortune 500, but not located downtown.
Quote from: TD* on January 15, 2009, 12:16:52 PM
Nice pictures, however the writer needs work. The article is awkward to read, and the flow is interrupted by mangled sentence structure, and incorrect word choice.
A lot of the neighborhood description text comes from wikipedia. Nevertheless, we could always use a proofreader. Send a PM if you're interested.
What a coincidence! I just felt like rereading the old learning from Orlando last night, so it was fresh in my mind when I saw this new article! Interesting to see how much has changed over the last two years...and what hasnt (still waiting on that 12-screen movie theater?)
Thornton Park looks great...and a very nice Publix there, too.
Did not realize UCF was the 6th largest student body in the country! Is that total enrollment of grad/undergrad/part time?
Very jealous of their Little Vietnam. I've been there several times to eat...terrific.
I spent a few months in Orlando this past spring and summer and was easily impressed with Orlando and Winter Park. Once you shed the image of the theme parks, the City of Orlando is a fantastic oasis in an otherwise suburban sprawl fest. The core is not as large as Jax, but that also seems to be one of its strengths because more activity is clustered closer together.
All in all, Jax still has the upper hand when it comes to potential and historic appeal.
I am born and raised in Jacksonville, but spent six years in Orlando going to UCF. The Downtown in Orlando is absolutely phenomenal. Was close to getting my parents to help me buy a place at The Waverly. The connectivity from Thorton park (restored vintage single family housing) to the core of the Downtown nightlife and high-rise living is superb in my opinion. I still make it down every few months to party with old friends and it leaves me truly yearning sometimes. However, keep the faith. With the right leaders and proper planning, our Downtown can achieve this status and beyond hopefully.
If Jacksonville and it's lack of good development and historic preservation ever gets you down, you can rely on looking at Orlando, and all it hideousness to cheer you up.
I think it is obvious that Orlando made a conscious effort to bring residential into the downtown area. Look at all of those condo projects (Waverly, Sanctuary, 101 Eola, Vue, Metropolitan, Dynetech, Solaire, Star Tower, Osceola Brownstones, Thornton Park Central). It really helps the commercial to have a solid residential base. Now the base is strong enough to support a 30,000 sf Publix. There are a ton of bars downtown, which make the city active past the 9-5 window.
One other thing... don't forget about SunRail. http://www.sunrail.com/ This could be huge for the region.
This is a great article, but it overlooks one of the best examples of Neo traditional developments in the state, Baldwin Park. It's to the immediate northeast of the VI MI district and was developed on former military facility. The best part is that it has been incorporated into the existing neighborhood fabric of Winter Park. No gates, no cul de sacs, and although there is ample surface parking, it's well hidden behind structures which address the street. Unlike most New Urbanist projects, it's probably one of the best in Florida which is truly represents infill redevelopment.