Urban Parks: Northbank Riverwalk
(http://www.metrojacksonville.comhttp://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453319248_AdiDq-M.jpg)
The ever expanding Northbank Riverwalk is one of the most popular and well-used attractions in Downtown Jacksonville. The 2 mile greenway connects Riverside with Downtown.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/985
I personally love the Northbank Riverwalk and feel it is under appreciated by most who live outside of the core. The picture of the courthouse parking lot reminded me of how the city has failed to capitalize on potential. I have high hopes for that piece of land in the future. Connecting downtown to Met Park via the riverwalk will go a long ways in producing some connectivity between the two sections. Develop the courthouse parking lot, build the Shipyards complex and we might actually be on to something. ;D
I like the Riverwalk as well. I cannot wait until the courthouse parking lot is gone.
The Northbank Riverwalk is without a doubt the perfect example of what a transportation corridor can be. The number of people from Riverside and Avondale that commute by walking and/or riding a bike to downtown increased dramatically before the west end was even officially completed.
I wouldnt be surprised if they eventually need to designate bike lanes on the riverwalk... :)
Quote from: Bike Jax on January 13, 2009, 08:49:35 AM
The Northbank Riverwalk is without a doubt the perfect example of what a transportation corridor can be. The number of people from Riverside and Avondale that commute by walking and/or riding a bike to downtown increased dramatically before the west end was even officially completed.
I think we're missing the boat by not working to convert a portion of the Laura Street ROW into a bike corridor to better connect Springfield with Downtown. Its a wide road that connects a lot of destinations and the city is getting ready to streetscape the street without incorporating bike lanes.
Downtown St. Petersburg
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8080-p1170741.JPG)
Downtown Hoboken
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-5860-p1130273.JPG)
I love the connectivity that the Riverwalk brings to Riverside and Downtown. If they could complete it down past the Shipyards to the Stadium area it would make it the best way to travel to games and other events from Riverside. I also like the idea of creating a dedicated bike path in downtown to create a corridor to Springfield.
I am no Lance Armstrong type cyclist, but I would love to see Jacksonville adapt more bike friendly policies in the core that would encourage people to not only use biclycles to commute downtown, but also enjoy downtown on them. I am not claiming to have a strategy in mind to do that, but anything would be good that brings people into downtown other that 9-5 on work days.
I love the Riverwalk. Whenever friends who live outside the core come visit and we go on bike rides I almost always take the Riverwalk to show it off. Not many cities have such a walkway on the water, plus you get some good views of Downtown.
When I worked Downtown and commuted on my bike I would take the Riverwalk and it was such a great way to start off the day.
The only negatives about the Riverwalk is that of the over 100 benches, about half are occupied by bums and the bottle neck at the Landing.
Someone once told me that the land under the courthouse parking lot was primarily man-made infill, and for that reason nothing higher than one or two stories could be built on it. He gave a similar reason for why the first Berkman Plaza tower must sit so far back from the river. The land closer to the water was also infill and could not support the weight of the tower, only two story townhomes and a portion of the parking garage.
Assuming this is all true, and it makes sense that it would be, what exactly can be built on the site of the courthouse parking lot that would make best use of the property? I know many have proposed a new convention center at the site of the current courthouse and city hall annex. Are there any other ideas?
I remember seeing some aerial pics on here before showing how wide the river used to be and how much infill has taken place, it was pretty dramatic.
QuoteAssuming this is all true, and it makes sense that it would be, what exactly can be built on the site of the courthouse parking lot that would make best use of the property?
Its not true. A new structure would have to be built with pilings that go down deep enough to support the structure (just like the Hyatt next door).
(http://gees.usc.edu/GEER/Kobe/fig3-8.gif)
(http://www.jabberwocky.com/photo/pcd0809/inner-harbor-ship.jpg)
(http://www.abhijitsarkar.com/images/baltimore/BL-InnerHarbor-8.jpg)
I am sure it is infill but all you have to do is look across the river at Strand and Peninsula. I used to watch the construction there... They basically built a cofferdam around the site and began drilling and pouring the pilings and foundations. They were constantly pumping water out of the site until the concrete was poured. I seem to remember site prep and foundation building lasting as long as building the rest of the buildings...
I watched a show on the history channel I believe that showed how the east river is about 2/3rd as wide as it once was due to construction pushing the banks further out.
The riverwalk is great Memorial park to Metro Park with dare to dream a bike lane I might have to get a new bike.
I love love love the Northbank Riverwalk. It's easy to complain about all of Jacksonville's brain-dead urban failures; however, the Northbank Riverwalk (particularly the Riverside Ave extension) is just fantastic. Of course, it's not without its faults. But overall it is a jewel. I dare say it's the defining public space of Jax.
If we could corral every anti-downtown suburbanite and convince them to walk the Riverwalk extension, I think it would change a lot of minds. I doubt it would make urbanites out of them, but I bet it would ease their hostility to urban development.
QuoteThe west end of the Northbank Riverwalk will eventually be extended from Riverside Artist Square to Cummer Museum, Five Points, and Riverside Memorial Park.
I hope you are right Lakelander. However, I remember several of the riverfront condo owners raising LOUD objections to this proposed expansion. I literally dream of the day when I can jog from Memorial Park to Metropolitan Park along a continuous Riverwalk. But I fear that the political will is not there.
Quote from: Traveller on January 13, 2009, 12:00:04 PM
Someone once told me that the land under the courthouse parking lot was primarily man-made infill, and for that reason nothing higher than one or two stories could be built on it. He gave a similar reason for why the first Berkman Plaza tower must sit so far back from the river. The land closer to the water was also infill and could not support the weight of the tower, only two story townhomes and a portion of the parking garage.
Assuming this is all true, and it makes sense that it would be, what exactly can be built on the site of the courthouse parking lot that would make best use of the property?
All the skyscrapers along the Hong Kong Harbour are on man-made infill. Maybe there's a difference between the cities, but I don't think it should be a barrier that cannot be overcome.
I share your dream, Joe. That jog sounds terrific.
Memorial park to the Cummer is easy on the sidewalk. If we could get the riverwalk to the Cummer it would still be close enough access the park. If I owned one of those riverfront condos I would worry about a riverwalk extension.
If I owned one I would want the extra value a riverwalk connection would bring to my investment.
If my memory serves there are not any with private river front but if there are you might not want to lose that. I do think it will be good for the area which helps all of the property owners.
QuoteSomeone once told me that the land under the courthouse parking lot was primarily man-made infill, and for that reason nothing higher than one or two stories could be built on it
This is not true. Two of the greatest building ever built were constructed on landfill.
QuoteThe site of the World Trade Center was located on landfill with the bedrock located 65 feet (20 m) below.[40] In order to construct the World Trade Center, it was necessary to build the "bathtub" with a slurry wall along the West Street side of the site, serving to keep water from the Hudson River out.[41] The slurry method devised by Port Authority’s chief engineer, John M. Kyle, Jr., involved digging a trench, and as excavation proceeded, filling the space with a "slurry" mixture composed of bentonite which plugged holes and kept water out. When the trench was dug out, a steel cage was inserted and concrete was poured in, forcing the "slurry" out. It took fourteen months for the slurry wall to be completed; it was necessary before excavation of material from the interior of the site could begin.[42] The 1.2 million cubic yards (917,000 m³) of material excavated were used to expand the Manhattan shoreline across West Street to form Battery Park City (along with other fill and dredge material.)[43][44]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center#Construction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center#Construction)
Now when I lived in Jax, there was no Northbank Riverwalk; I will be coming to Jax in a couple of days, haven't visited in over 2 years, and I will be looking and surveying downtown (and taking pics). One question; how does the Southbank Riverwalk compare to the Northbank Riverwalk? The Southbank Riverwalk used to be the focal point of downtown, but from the look of the pics, the Northbank Riverwalk is now the focal point (riverwalk wise) and the Southbank Riverwalk has taken a backseat; am I right in this assessment?
Heights Unknown
I agree; and we do need to focus on those under developed areas on the river; but we also need to "worry" some of the parking lot areas in the core with some talls and super talls as well (developments), especially near and around the new Courthouse area; THEN we might be on to something. But the Northbank Riverwalk really looks beautiful, cool, and very nicely built and well kept. Downtown Jax really looks clean and pristine in these pics, or am I missing something? A far cry than when I lived there and it was dirty, unkept, etc.
Heights Unknown
^The Southbank Riverwalk still offers the best views, but it has deteriorated with time. The wooden boards are really weathered. It makes sense b/c they must be well over 20 years old by now! Unfortunately the wood is clearly past its intended lifespan. It needs to be replaced, but there are no plans to do so.
Quote from: JeffreyS on January 13, 2009, 06:14:30 PM
If my memory serves there are not any with private river front but if there are you might not want to lose that. I do think it will be good for the area which helps all of the property owners.
I think there is the Red Cross, The Cummer, two properties owned by the Jax Women's Club, one private condo, and then condos with a public street inbetween them and the river. Don't hold me to that though.
The one private condo is really the only barrier (although the Cummer didn't exactly guarantee their support, they just said that they were open to the idea). I know exactly why that condo opposes the Riverwalk expansion too - I've been inside the building. If they extend the riverwalk, their pool would only be separated by a short wall. Their "private" space would become virtually public.
Of course, at the end of the day, I'm not sure they have the legal right to oppose an extension. They don't own the river, nor the right to build over it. However, the city council has been bullied into inaction over less before.
Quote from: Joe on January 13, 2009, 11:07:13 PM
The one private condo is really the only barrier (although the Cummer didn't exactly guarantee their support, they just said that they were open to the idea). I know exactly why that condo opposes the Riverwalk expansion too - I've been inside the building. If they extend the riverwalk, their pool would only be separated by a short wall. Their "private" space would become virtually public.
What's the name of this condo?
I don't remember. It's between Lomax and Lancaster Streets ... on the river, obviously.
Here is an article from 2006:
QuoteRiverwalk roadblock
Condo residents say the mayor's plan for an extension will come with noise and trash
The Northbank Riverwalk was heralded by some visitors during the 2005 Super Bowl as one of Jacksonville's best assets.
But residents of at least one Riverside condominium oppose a plan to expand the walkway along their backyard.
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/070806/met_22287510.shtml
All you need is some one like Charleston's mayor to drive quality of life improvements like this through the heart of the NIMBYs. Hopefully, we'll get a progressive vision oriented administration in a couple of years.
^ You runnin'? ;)
oooohhhhh, thats a great idea, lakelander!!!!! You should run for mayor. really
Lakelander > the John's (Delaney, Peyton)
I wonder how much the operator for the rail on the river makes an hour. Hope he's got a TV, a newspaper, or a radio to keep him occupied!
Ah, thanks Joe and Lunican.
QuoteAll you need is some one like Charleston's mayor to drive quality of life improvements like this through the heart of the NIMBYs. Hopefully, we'll get a progressive vision oriented administration in a couple of years.
I could get behind that.
LOL!
my mothers heavily involved in the duval demos, see actually went to denver. nows the time to start this, we should do it, at least try early stages. im in on this, we have enough unity in this blog itself to take it a few steps!
"The Lakelander - for a Change"
or
"Lakelander - a Bold new Direction for Jacksonville"
Would he really run under the pseudonym of The Lakelander?
Well no, I'd think not. But substituting his real name would be simple enough. Although he could change his nickname here to "The Jacksonviller" or something. :D
How incredible would it be if we were able to go from Memorial Park to Metro Park with all of the things to see along the way(Memorial Park, Womans Club, The Cummer, The new artist market, The Landing,eventually the Shipyards,and Metro Park.
I'm not big on bumping posts, but there's construction on going with the riverwalk right now. Not sure if anyone else has posted about it or not.
The bulkhead has been tore up near the docks right after the I-95 overpass. There was orange mesh separating anyone from walking down to the water and falling in. From what I heard, it was sinking and needed to be fixed. I don't know if it's been fixed as of yet, as this was last Saturday morning that I was down there.
Next time I'm down there, I'll snap some pictures with my iPhone and post 'em here.
Quote from: GatorShane on January 19, 2009, 04:00:50 PM
How incredible would it be if we were able to go from Memorial Park to Metro Park with all of the things to see along the way(Memorial Park, Womans Club, The Cummer, The new artist market, The Landing,eventually the Shipyards,and Metro Park.
+ 1000
It would be awesome -- ideal.
http://www.tbo.com/list/news-opinion-editorials/editorial-tampas-riverwalk-a-big-piece-of-downtowns-revival-20160102/
Saw this in the Tampa Tribune today.
I think the Memorial Park connection for the Riverwalk would be incredibly clutch in bringing more connectivity to DT, Brooklyn, and Riverside.
Has the plan to expand to Memorial Park been put on the back burner or is it potentially a go in the next few years now that the Southbank Riverwalk was completed?
Quote from: FlaBoy on January 04, 2016, 12:08:48 PM
http://www.tbo.com/list/news-opinion-editorials/editorial-tampas-riverwalk-a-big-piece-of-downtowns-revival-20160102/
Saw this in the Tampa Tribune today.
I think the Memorial Park connection for the Riverwalk would be incredibly clutch in bringing more connectivity to DT, Brooklyn, and Riverside.
Has the plan to expand to Memorial Park been put on the back burner or is it potentially a go in the next few years now that the Southbank Riverwalk was completed?
I think the current roadblock is getting an easement across a few parcels of private property. There is at least once condo tower and the Cummer Museum that would have to buy in on it. I guess the city could get aggressive and try to use eminent domain but doubt they would.
Is the Cummer agreeable to this? If they were agreeable, I think it would be pretty reasonable to get done.
^ Tampa's Riverwalk is nearing completion because of a portion built out over the water. It took years and federal TIGER grant money to get that done. We may have a similar issue in this area.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 04, 2016, 02:47:09 PM
^ Tampa's Riverwalk is nearing completion because of a portion built out over the water. It took years and federal TIGER grant money to get that done. We may have a similar issue in this area.
Yeah. Maybe along the Cummer (due to their gardens) and the Condo building between Lancaster and Lomax with its pool fronting the river. Otherwise, I think it is a relatively easy path with much of it being parking lots and vacant land leading up to the park.
When (If) the district gets built, it will have a similar public space anchoring the east end of the southbank riverwalk. Some day we might have parks on all 4 corners of the riverwalk, which would make it unique on a national scale.
^Although it would be nice to create a nice grassy green where the parking lot is between the Mosh and the Brewery by Friendship Fountain. That area barely qualifies as a park right now.
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=549803
QuoteTriBridge Residential LLC plans to build a pair of midrise apartment buildings on vacant riverfront property between 500 and 550 Bishop Gate Lane.
The infill project would add 125 residences to the Riverside neighborhood along with an expansion of the public Riverwalk along the Northbank.
The expansion would run 350 feet from the Riverside Arts Market south to Memorial Park, providing public access and space for the water taxi to dock.
This week, two City Council committees voted to support Ordinance 2017-284, the development and easement agreements for the project. The ordinance has been in review since April.
The Neighborhoods, Community Investments and Services Committee and the Land Use and Zoning Committee voted Monday and Tuesday. The Finance Committee meets today and could send the ordinance to City Council for approval.
As part of the agreement, TriBridge would build and maintain the riverfront section of the public Riverwalk at its property in return for an $810,610 property tax rebate, also known as a Recaptured Enhanced Value Grant, from the city.
Council President Lori Boyer told the neighborhood committee Monday that the developers wouldn't be able to build the Riverwalk expansion without the rebate.
She hopes the deal signals a change in how the city supports Downtown development.
Boyer, whose district includes the Southbank and San Marco, said allowing developers like TriBridge to manage parts of the Riverwalk presents a much better deal for the city.
"We get someone to build it for us to our standards, to maintain it to our standards, to give us public easement and access," she said, "and we get to pay for it over time, from the proceeds that property generates."
So are they expanding all the way to Memorial Park now or just building the portion on the property TriBridge is developing?
I thought they couldn't go to memorial Park because of the Cummer? Maybe if it's built out in the water like the South Bank it won't matter?
Cummer wasn't the issue. Back during the Peyton days, Cummer was in favor of a riverwalk extension. It was the residents in the condo towers along the riverfront that were opposed to a riverwalk extension into Riverside.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 03, 2017, 04:52:43 PM
Cummer wasn't the issue. Back during the Peyton days, Cummer was in favor of a riverwalk extension. It was the residents in the condo towers along the riverfront that were opposed to a riverwalk extension into Riverside.
They will complain about anything. Get it done! Would be an amazing addition to connectivity between DT and Riverside.
There is no question that this would benefit both Riverside and downtown. After Khan's development you'd have a straight shot from Memorial Park all the way to the Doro district. The ability to ride your bike/walk safely that far without encountering any cars would be amazing. You could do some serious bar hopping too if you wanted to burn extra calories haha
They could possibly add river taxi to Cummer/memorial park, imagine that.
That one condo building has a legitimate gripe about the riverwalk, but they could just throw up a fence and get over it.
I say that the riverwalk doesn't need to go all the way to the park. Lancaster Lane is barely used, so just spruce that up for pedestrians and save the money.
Make Lancaster a one way street and you'd have a lot more room to play with.
^I think if they just moved the riverfront parking and replaced it with parallel parking on the other side of the street for the whole run of Lancaster, it could be as wide as the Riverwalk all the way to the park without having to add anything else.
So what's the deal, it's a lot farther than 350' from RAM to Memorial Park. Sounds like this piece will be just behind the development.
I remember when this parcel was called the Bishopgate and was part of the proposed towers back in the crazy 2005 - 2007 boom days.
The original plan.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/building-boom/bishopsgate_final.jpg)
The 2013 do over.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2824073417_Ddh3rDF-M.jpg)
Hope this thing finally happens. Oh and, based on my measurement, 350' only covers the length of the property. You'd need more than 1000' in either direction to reach the locations mentioned.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-oct-beacon-riverside-renderings-released
Here's the latest rendering:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-C2wKnMR/0/L/Renderings_Page_1-L.jpg)
http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-updated-urban-jax-major-projects-development-list/page/4
Quote from: acme54321 on May 04, 2017, 12:23:32 PM
So what's the deal, it's a lot farther than 350' from RAM to Memorial Park. Sounds like this piece will be just behind the development.
Yes, you are correct. Basically, it's something the city should have done years ago. It's an incremental approach to getting a riverwalk eventually built. At some point, the city will have to construct the missing segments. However, that's a lot cheaper than paying to build all of it, after private development has already happened.
The same approach is being taken in San Marco. FDOT is building the shared use path between Riverside and San Marco. It will be connected with a shared use path paralleling Nira Street between the river and Hendricks. That path is being built as a part of the Baptist MD Anderson and Hendricks mixed-use projects. Eventually, it will connect to the Southbank riverwalk as a part of the District project. So through the coordination of private development, we're getting a pretty cool bike/ped link constructed with minimal public dollars.
(http://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-KF34VBF/0/L/Nira%20Street%20Shared-Use%20Path-X2-L.jpg)
Pretty cool approach to getting the riverwalk expanded incrementally without the city having to put up money:
QuoteAs plans for the apartment project came together, Boyer helped to make sure that river access for the public was included.
As a result, the developers will build 350 feet of riverwalk along the width of its property that could eventually connect to the rest of the riverwalk.
Twelve feet wide with three feet of landscaping along the path, this section of the riverwalk will be built to the city's specifications, and the developer will maintain it as well as the bulkhead, which is where much of the expense comes in.
To make the deal work, the developer will receive $810,610 through reduced property taxes that will go toward the cost of the construction.
Boyer told the Finance Committee last week the same template will be applied to other riverfront development on both the Northbank and the Southbank.
City Councilman Greg Anderson lauded Boyer's concept during the Finance Committee meeting.
"It really is spectacular," he said.
City Councilman Aaron Bowman added: "Bravo. Good job."
As Bowman said, the key is going to be to fill in the gaps sooner rather than later.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2017-05-05/ron-littlepage-extended-northbank-riverwalk-no-longer-just-dream
^^ Fantastic
That's a much smaller scale project than the previous efforts but certainly much better than nothing at all.
I wouldn't say it's smaller. It's just incremental. Instead of waiting a decade or more for full public funding to get anything, you'll end up getting various segments completed in a year or two. At some point, they'll have to fill in the remaining gaps, which won't cost taxpayers as much.
Id like to see the details of the deal. $810K in tax breaks is a great deal for the city especially if it includes a perpetual maintenance agreement, but does it? If not, how long? Who determines when something needs repair and to what extent?
Could this also stymie new developments? If the tax breaks do not justify the cost of construction/maintenance, I could see it running otherwise interested parties off.